Re: Reply: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment

I only want to stress that v should give priority to discuss RTI related issues (may include corrupiton etc) on the RTI blog without our 24-hour involvement on the issues which create reif among Indians. 

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From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com; Mahendra Kumar Gupta <mkgupta1952@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 13 December, 2010 9:01:15 PM
Subject: Re: Reply: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment

Dear Mr. Gupta,

 

I am sorry if  what i have written has given you that deduction. If you can be specific, I shall be very obliged. If I am wrong I am ready to correct myself.

 

On what account did you recall the adage " Rome was burning???!!!...."

 

If something seriously is amiss do let me know. We shall all be together.

 

Regards,

WEDS

 

 

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From: Mahendra Kumar Gupta <mkgupta1952@gmail.com>
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 13 December, 2010 18:17:34
Subject: Re: Reply: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment

When Rome was burning, Nero was playing fiddle.  So do we.

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Dr. Jagnarain Sharma <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com> wrote:

DEAR WEDS & SARABJIT
You have contributed lot of material on religion and philosophy,
thanks for the same.
For me you both are great.
Let us ponder on the RTI Empowerment, as Mioly Sahab is going to
dilute it and P.M. Sahab and Mahamahim President will not come to the
rescue of common man/RTI Activist
We need to fight on that matter alone, with the DOPT.

With kind regards and great Devine Love to you both

Dr JN Sharma
ADVOCATE / RTI / HUMANRIGHT ACTIVIST
2, ashok lane Civil Court Lucknow
Mob: 09335231213
EX-FACULTY MEMBER ,ATTACHED TO RURAL DEV, PROJECT VISHWABHARTI
UNIVERSITY,SHANTINIKETAN,WEST BENGAL &
ALSO FACULTY MEMBER INSTITUTE OF BANKERS, LUCKNOW  AND
BRITISH SCHOLAR  UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND

On 12/13/10, DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear Sarabjit & all others,
>
> You are free to hold any opinion you deem fit to hold as your conscience
> dictates & freedom of speech & expression allows it & I do not dispute it.
>
> I am atheist. You may write anything you wish to & that dispensation has
> been
> sent by me to over a million persons via internet since 1992 & whoever who
> replied have appreciated it as most rational.
>
> I will not dispute your private beliefs; you are free to hold them.
>
> Best wishes,
> WEDS
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
> To: INDIA RTI for empowerment <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, 12 December, 2010 23:42:03
> Subject: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment
>
> Dear Mr WEDS
>
> From your name it appears that you are one of those foreign financed
> Christian Evangelists so notorious for deceiving innocent people.
>
> Unfortunately your post is too long, confused and badly structured.
> Your arguments against God are incoherent, rambling logically
> inconsistent, and frankly ignorant of Hindu religion. No rational
> person can share your beliefs. I am a rational person and also believe
> in God, or GOD. I find no inconsistency in my position.
>
> Let me set out a few of my core beliefs. These are basically as
> published in English by Raj Narain Bose in about 1873. Raj Narain Bose
> was the man who framed the concept of 'Hindutva', and was also
> grandfather of Shri Aurobindo.
>
> 1) God is One without a second. "Ekamevadwiteeyam" One Supreme God— "a
> God, endowed with a distinct personality & moral attributes equal to
> His nature, and intelligence befitting the Governor of the
> Universe," (We do not believe in His incarnations).
>
> 2) God has no name, no form, no limit. It is impossible to make an
> idol of "him". God can be sensed through intuition in the the book of
> nature.
>
> 3) To worship "him" is to love / adore him and do the things he loves
>
> 4) Worship of "him" needs no fixed place or time. "We can adore Him at
> any time and at any place, provided that time and that place are
> calculated to compose and direct the mind towards Him." There is no
> need for gurus, or priests to conduct worship.
>
> 5) Do not perform any rites or ceremonies, or believe in penances, as
> instrumental in obtaining the grace of God. We declare that moral
> righteousness, the gaining of wisdom, Divine contemplation, charity
> and the cultivation of devotional feelings, are our rites and
> ceremonies. We further say, govern and regulate your feelings,
> discharge your duties to God and to man, and you will gain everlasting
> blessedness, purify your heart, cultivate devotional feelings, and you
> will see Him who is Unseen.
>
> 6) Theoretically, there is no distinction of caste. We declare that we
> are all the part of God, and, therefore, must consider ourselves as
> one.
>
> 7) There are no places like heaven or  hell.
>
> 8) There is no "soul".
>
> This BTW is pure classical Vedic "Hinduism" and not that corrupt form
> which passes for Hinduism today among the popular classes and allows
> foreigners to abuse and parody the supposed 33,000 crore godlets and
> their gaudy "worship" perpetuated by false priestly classes.
>
> So before making sweeping assumptions/arguments about what most among
> human beings believe in, please explain why you disagree with
> traditional Indian Vedic beliefs as stated above.
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Dec 12, 3:37 am, DSouza Wilberious Evanglist
> <wileva...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Every country should have a well defined policy. However, consider scores
>> of
>> Indians who illegally emigrate to USA Europe  etc. Even India is formed by
>> illegal immigration from all over the world over the time immemorial.
>>
>> Read this:
>>
>> HAR ZOR ZULLUM KE TAKKAR MEIN, KAAFLE BASTEY GAYE; HINDUSTAAN BANTAA
>> GAYAA!
>>
>> India  has accepted  with open arms anybody seeking assylum.
>>
>> About "HINDU BIGOT" let us enlighten ourselves that human beings of
>> different
>> ethnicity exist in this world!!! For further enlightenment read the
> folllowing:
>>
>> -BLIND BELIEF-DOES GOD EXIST??????!!!!!
>>
>> Please ponder over these very rational statements.
>> Most amongst the human beings believe that God exists.
>> For some it is either Brahma, Vishnu or Maheshwar or one of the 399 Gods &
>> Goddesses or scores of spirits & ghosts,
>> For some, it is Jesus Christ,
>> For some it is Allah,
>> For some it is Buddha,
>> For some it is any of Jain Tirtankars,
>> For some any of the Gurus of Sikhism so on & so forth.
>> We quarrel amongst ourselves that we are Hindus, Christians, Sikhs,
>> Muslims,
>> Jains, Buddhists, etc., but, has any God or Goddess revealed himself or
> herself
>> to any one of us to either endorse our quarrel or decry it? Answer is an
>> emphatic NO!
>> Does any one who dies, return to tell tale about? Answer also is an
>> emphatic
>>NO!
>> Is SWARG or NARAK, JANNAT or JEHANNUM, HEAVEN or HELL a large celestial
>> world?
>> If YES, how much of it is under control of any of these;
>> BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESHWAR & 399 GODS & GODDESSES OR ALLAH, JESUS CHRIST,
> BUDDHA
>> ETC., so on & so forth? There is no answer!
>>
>> If one or some change ones or their faith, which Swarg or Narak,  Jannat
>> or
>> Jehnnum, Heaven or Hell that one or those reach? None knows the answer!
>>
>> Do these Gods & Goddesses retain accounting books with them so that those
>> who
>> forsake a faith shall be a debit entry in the forsaken God/Goddess's book
>> and
>> credit entry in embraced God/Goddess's book? None knows the answer!
>>
>> If these Gods/Goddesses are OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPERVADING do they
>> need
>> Temples, Mosques, Churches, Basadis, Gompas, Gurudwaras? Answer obviously
>> is
> an
>> emphatic NO!
>>
>> If these Gods/Goddesses exist, why Allah did not prevent demolition of
>> Babri
>> Mosque; why did Brahma, Vishnu, Maheswar & other 399 Gods & Goddesses did
>> not
>> prevent the demolition of scores of temples in India & outside after
> demolition
>> of Babri Mosque? Likewise, why Jesus Christ did not prevent demolition of
>> churches in history? So much so, the Jain Sikh & Buddhist Gods prevent the
>> demolition of the respective places of worships whenever they occurred in
>> the
>> history? E.g. Jain temples in Southern India & Buddhist temples in
>> Northern
>> India WERE converted to Hindu temples in the late second century A.D. when
>> Hinduism usurped trampling Jainism & Buddhism in India ? Any answers?
> Obviously
>> NO!
>> Is there any evidence of war or quarrel amongst or conquest of any of the
>> Gods
>>&
>> Goddesses by the other? Answer is obviously NO!
>>
>> Followers of various faiths quarrel among themselves & one another without
>> any
>> interference from any of the Gods. Just as in the case of political
>> parties,
>> party leaders do not quarrel but, party workers quarrel for the leaders
> sustain
>> injuries & losses. What a paradox! Any reasons? Answer is yet again an
> emphatic
>> NO!
>>
>> Religions are being used just as political parties trying to create vote
>> bank,
>> by Swamis, Mullah's & others, Priests or numerous Godmen & Godwomen
>> prompting
>> their followers to quarrel for them.
>> Why Gods & Goddesses exist only for Human Beings & not for reptiles, birds
>> &
>> Animals? Any answers? Obviously NO!
>> In Punarjanm or Reincarnation, cow is one form of Punarjanm. Visualise a
> Hindu,
>> A Muslim, a Christian, a Sikh, A Jain, A Buddhist, so on & so forth having
>> a
>>cow
>> each and  if these sell their cows amongst themselves; does the cow sold
>> relinquishes worship of God/Goddess of its earlier master/mistress & begin
>> to
>> worship God/Goddess of its new master/mistress? Any answers? Obviously NO!
>> Which of the Gods/Goddesses the scores of birds, reptiles, animals in
>> jungle
>> worship? Any answers? Obviously NO!
>> Human beings in the world speak scores of languages. Why these
>> Gods/Goddesses
>> standardize the languages spoken by their adorers? Any answers? Obviously
>> NO!
>> Sun shines evenly without discrimination upon a Hindu (any sect) Christian
>>
> (any
>> denomination) Muslim( any denomination)  so on & so forth. So does when it
>> rains!
>> A cat mews identically in a house of a Hindu (any sect) Christian (any
>> denomination) Muslim ( any denomination) so on & so forth!
>> A cow yields milk & milk alone regardless whether it is in the house of a
> Hindu
>> (any sect) Christian ( any denomination) Muslim( any denomination) so on &
>> so
>> forth!
>> So does a dog or any other mammal that is reared!
>>
>> Every Purohit or Bhat, or Priest or Mullah or Sant avers that God always
>> tests
>>a
>> devotee by giving him or her testing times & travails to ensure that
>> he/she is
>> steadfast in his/her devotion and also those who undergo travails &
>>tribulations
>> are ensured happiness in the other world; whereas, to bring the wrongdoer
>> into
>> God's fold God is extra benevolent to him/her! What a paradoxical justice!
>>
> What
>> is it anyway; nothing but HUMBUG!
>>
>> Every faith propagates that the human beings were created by the creator,
>> The
>> God! In that case why the Gods created Human speaking different languages,
>> different races, skin colour etc.?
>> Why the Gods created Humans with uneven distribution of wealth, intellect
>> &
>> ability?
>> Are so named or called Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Christians,
>> Buddhists
>> etc., so on & so forth, denote or connote different ethnic or groups?
>> Answer
>> obviously is No!
>>
>> These are only groups owing allegiance to different schools of thought!
>> Just
> as
>> political parties!
>>
>> All Gods or Goddesses may at best historical personalities or creation of
>> fertile imagination & nothing else!
>>
>> So, it is futile to build places of worship, e.g. TEMPLES, MOSQUES,
>> CHURCHES,
>> GURUDWARAS, JAIN & BUDDISTS TEMPLES so on & so forth & waste resources in
>> propitiation, votive offerings etc.,
>> All those God-men, God-women, priests, swamis, mullahs etc., exist by
>> profession; only a CRAFT to earn one's livelihood! Just as Sanskrit
>> saying;
>> UDHARA BHARANUM; BAHUKRITA VESHAM!
>>
>>
>> Further, every religion claims that all humans have a soul but, birds,
> animals,
>> reptiles etc., have none! What a partisan dispensation by the God!!!???
>>
>> "I helped give birth to three children with the human cloningtechnique,
>> known
>>as
>> genetic recoding. It involved two boys and a girl who are nine years old
> today.
>> They were born healthy and they are in excellent health now." said
>> Severino
>> Antinori, a prominent gynaecologist, to Oggi, an Italian weekly in an
> interview
>> that appeared on Wednesday, the 4th of February 2009.Do these two boys &
>> one
>> girl who were created by Severino Antinorihave souls???!!! Any
>> answers???!!!
>>
>> In India, recent statistics indicate that about 76% of Indian population
>>subsist
>> by earning just Rs. 25 a day. This population also worships different
>> Gods/Goddesses, align themselves to varied faiths, pray, offer votives,
>> pay
>> obeisance! Alas! None of the Gods/Goddesses have alleviated them from this
>> morass or predicament! So why waste time & spend hard earned money in
>> these
>> futile exercises?
>>
>> India, our motherland is so diverse, linguistically, ethnically and
>> anthropologically with over 4000 languages about over 1600 religious
>> practices
>> and equally large ethnic origins; it can be equated to an extremely large,
>> massively grown tree; in the boughs & branches immigrant birds from far
>> and
>> wide, genetically & specieally very diverse, have perched and built their
> nests
>> laid eggs in them, incubated them into fledglings which became fully
>> fledged
> to
>> further the genus. This tree, the mother India has sheltered them and
>> offered
>> them a habitat & continue to do so without any discrimination on genus &
>>specie!
>>
>> Hence, no specie of any genus can claim proprietary right on this tree!
>> Those countrymen & women who on the basis of religion & God, spread
>> hatred,
>> strife, riots, vandalism, loot, unrest, massacre, bloodshed, lawlessness,
>> anarchy, economic halt, shredding human fibre to pieces that cannot be
>> rewoven
>> into a fabric, are responsible for the tears those are shed from the eyes
>> of
>> hapless kith & kins of those who lose their parents, siblings, bread
>> earners
>> with gloom staring in their eyes! Let them think for a while & visualize
>> what
>> would have been their plight had they encountered similar predicament!
>>
>> So, in conclusion, none of the human beings have any choice when they are
> born;
>> let human beings live as human beings respecting others right to exist,
>> live,
>> pursue a profession, earn livelihood by fair & equitable means, so long as
>>
> such
>> a behaviour does not cause any harm, injury, loss or consternation to
>> others,
>> coexisting in this world as human beings, in perfect symbiosis.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> WEDS
>
>
>
>