ToIndia Against CorruptionCORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YETThe recent arrest of Manuneethi chozhan, the Registrar of Companies , on corruption charges in Chennai prove the extent to which the government officials, business men and politicians collude together to destroy this country. This arrest of the registrar of companies only indicate that the Naredra Modi government has not been able to create any fear amongst officials yet , about indulging in corrupt practices.This man was arrested earlier and was facing serious charges but was reinstated later on. The fact that such a person has been allowed to occupy such a crucial position at top level only indicate that the corrupt officials can get away with anything by playing politics. Media reports say that this man has several political connections .
In the past, many corrupt officials have gone scot free after initial arrest and getting bail. Such corrupt people seem to have great faith in Indian judicial system that it would not give any judgement too soon. The story of a Chief Minister's case pending in the court for nearly fifteen years is a ready example.
The net effect is that many corrupt people , whether they are official or politician or business man or even judge, do not suffer at all except for a brief period when they would be arrested and then released on bail.
Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.
Narendra Modi's government is yet to give an impression that it would effectively make the corrupt people pay the price for their misdeeds. Whatever may be Mr. Modi's achievements in other front, if he would not succeed in wiping out such corruption at national and regional level, the country men would not be satisfied.
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
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Saturday, August 30, 2014
Re: [IAC#RG] CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
Further
Dear Deepak,
Thanks for replying.
Modi having been CM x almost 12 yrs knows better than others that if CM is capable, corruption
can be curbed.
Manmohan
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:
Re: [IAC#RG] CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
Have you noticed that due diligence is being done with PSU Banks top brass - most of the CMDs are political appointees. Quietly they are being sorted out. At their level the sums involved are in thousands of crores. I have been given to understand that suspect General Officers in the armed forces and DRDO organisation are under scrutiny. They too will be sorted out and I am glad if that is correct. But these are Central Govt organisations.
As for the states the Central Govt can do nothing. For the States you require people like Nitish Kumar who cleaned the aegean stables considerably. He required more than 5 years.
The ex Governor of Maharastra who recently decided to go on long leave did not permit Ashok Chavan to be queried in the Adarsh scam. Ajit Pawar is not being questioned about the irrigation projects - Central Govt can do nothing.
Secondly we are very confused people. We condone someone for 15 years even if removal of poverty is no where on the horizon however are unwilling to give any time to the present PM. Why is it because he is a commoner???????
Lets do some introspection.
Col Arun Joshi(Retired)
The INFANTEER
CONSERVE WATER (Conserved 77,000 ltrs last Monsoon)
USE BIODEGRADABLE PACKING MATERIAL
The INFANTEER
CONSERVE WATER (Conserved 77,000 ltrs last Monsoon)
USE BIODEGRADABLE PACKING MATERIAL
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Manmohan Kumar <nrisoldierleague@gmail.com> wrote:
'Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.'Sir,Fail to understand as to why you are excluding 'state govt'.ManmohanOn Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:ToIndia Against CorruptionCORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YETThe recent arrest of Manuneethi chozhan, the Registrar of Companies , on corruption charges in Chennai prove the extent to which the government officials, business men and politicians collude together to destroy this country. This arrest of the registrar of companies only indicate that the Naredra Modi government has not been able to create any fear amongst officials yet , about indulging in corrupt practices.This man was arrested earlier and was facing serious charges but was reinstated later on. The fact that such a person has been allowed to occupy such a crucial position at top level only indicate that the corrupt officials can get away with anything by playing politics. Media reports say that this man has several political connections .
In the past, many corrupt officials have gone scot free after initial arrest and getting bail. Such corrupt people seem to have great faith in Indian judicial system that it would not give any judgement too soon. The story of a Chief Minister's case pending in the court for nearly fifteen years is a ready example.
The net effect is that many corrupt people , whether they are official or politician or business man or even judge, do not suffer at all except for a brief period when they would be arrested and then released on bail.
Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.
Narendra Modi's government is yet to give an impression that it would effectively make the corrupt people pay the price for their misdeeds. Whatever may be Mr. Modi's achievements in other front, if he would not succeed in wiping out such corruption at national and regional level, the country men would not be satisfied.
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
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Friday, August 29, 2014
Re: [IAC#RG] CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
'Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.'
Sir,
Fail to understand as to why you are excluding 'state govt'.
Manmohan
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:
ToIndia Against CorruptionCORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YETThe recent arrest of Manuneethi chozhan, the Registrar of Companies , on corruption charges in Chennai prove the extent to which the government officials, business men and politicians collude together to destroy this country. This arrest of the registrar of companies only indicate that the Naredra Modi government has not been able to create any fear amongst officials yet , about indulging in corrupt practices.This man was arrested earlier and was facing serious charges but was reinstated later on. The fact that such a person has been allowed to occupy such a crucial position at top level only indicate that the corrupt officials can get away with anything by playing politics. Media reports say that this man has several political connections .
In the past, many corrupt officials have gone scot free after initial arrest and getting bail. Such corrupt people seem to have great faith in Indian judicial system that it would not give any judgement too soon. The story of a Chief Minister's case pending in the court for nearly fifteen years is a ready example.
The net effect is that many corrupt people , whether they are official or politician or business man or even judge, do not suffer at all except for a brief period when they would be arrested and then released on bail.
Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.
Narendra Modi's government is yet to give an impression that it would effectively make the corrupt people pay the price for their misdeeds. Whatever may be Mr. Modi's achievements in other front, if he would not succeed in wiping out such corruption at national and regional level, the country men would not be satisfied.
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Supratim
We value all points of view and circulate them if they are given
honestly and in a language and phrasing that benefits most members of
this list.
I'm sure you will readily acknowledge that the vast majority of your
emails have been sent out to the IAC list, and we have hardly censored
or been totalitarian or "unequal" with you in any way.
I can also assure you that, unlike AAP, we are not opposed to
efficient markets or free markets per se. Our support of socialist
systems arises from the underlying ground realities and unaddressed
inequities loaded against under-privileged persons who are the victims
of "markets" which outwardly seem to be free but are actually
meat-mincers to grind us poor ignorant trapped fools into sausages.
And isn't that why we have UID/Aadhar as the new hi-tech ATM tool for
this "anguta chaap" nation who are being shepherded into the Pradahan
Mantri's banking system from 25th Aug to be slaughtered ?
Keep posting.
Sarbajit
On 8/29/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Sarbajit,
>
>
> 1. Looks like you DO need to be a rocket scientist to understand why we
> need US $ in the first place - everything else you highlighted flows from
> this fact. If you didn't need US $, you wouldn't need to invest in US
> Treasuries, would you?
>
> 2. I am neither foreign educated (amchi mumbai provided all my education)
> nor an economist by training or occupation.
>
> 3. Attacking the person, instead of the argument seems to be your standard
> operating procedure - calling other people names only brings into question
> your intellectual depth and expertise.
>
> 4. Sanjeev Sabhlok - what is the relevance to what we were discussing here?
> You seem to be labouring under a great misconception in terms of how
> Freedom Team of India members operate - there is no "guruji" as you seem to
> think and there is no single CEO, whom we have to follow. FTI is probably
> the most egalitarian organisation you will find in in India - each member
> is equal, and free to disagree with some one else, no matter how "eminent"
> an external observer may think that person to be.
>
> Please deal with Sanjeev directly on your differences - I have nothing to
> do with those - this is a strawman that you are posting here.
>
> 5. Your objectives for this mailing list and the HRA are quite clear to me
> - to impose a totalitarian and socialist solution in India, since you
> neither believe in markets nor in democracy. This is why I hardly engage on
> this list - but, sometimes people make such egregiously wrong statements or
> assumptions that I post a comment.
>
> You are clearly telling me that posting here is a waste of my time - so
> noted and will not do so in the future. In fact, I will unsubscribe now -
> it is another matter that someone from YOUR group subscribed me to this
> mailing list in the first place, without my asking to be included.
>
> Cheers
>
> S
>
>
> On 27 August 2014 18:58, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear S
>>
>> You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
>> half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
>> rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
>> security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
>> (c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
>> etc etc and so on..
>>
>> At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
>> (@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
>> purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
>> your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
>> illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
>>
>>
>> http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
>>
>> (A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
>> at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
>> is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
>> to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
>> why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
>> pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
>>
>>
>> http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
>>
>> (B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
>> virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
>> publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
>>
>> (i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
>>
>> (ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
>> fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
>> HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
>> cash ? ... and
>>
>> (iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
>> fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
>>
>> PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
>> 'desi' economics very very well.
>>
>> S
>>
>> On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught
>> in
>> > Indian schools upto class 12.
>> >
>> > That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and
>> prices
>> > and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography,
>> physical
>> > sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even
>> > those
>> > who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>> >
>> > No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>> >
>> > And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes
>> > to
>> > understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as
>> > part
>> > of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
>> > understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things
>> they
>> > do.
>> >
>> > Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
>> > economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
>> > treasuries.
>> >
>> > S
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
We value all points of view and circulate them if they are given
honestly and in a language and phrasing that benefits most members of
this list.
I'm sure you will readily acknowledge that the vast majority of your
emails have been sent out to the IAC list, and we have hardly censored
or been totalitarian or "unequal" with you in any way.
I can also assure you that, unlike AAP, we are not opposed to
efficient markets or free markets per se. Our support of socialist
systems arises from the underlying ground realities and unaddressed
inequities loaded against under-privileged persons who are the victims
of "markets" which outwardly seem to be free but are actually
meat-mincers to grind us poor ignorant trapped fools into sausages.
And isn't that why we have UID/Aadhar as the new hi-tech ATM tool for
this "anguta chaap" nation who are being shepherded into the Pradahan
Mantri's banking system from 25th Aug to be slaughtered ?
Keep posting.
Sarbajit
On 8/29/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Sarbajit,
>
>
> 1. Looks like you DO need to be a rocket scientist to understand why we
> need US $ in the first place - everything else you highlighted flows from
> this fact. If you didn't need US $, you wouldn't need to invest in US
> Treasuries, would you?
>
> 2. I am neither foreign educated (amchi mumbai provided all my education)
> nor an economist by training or occupation.
>
> 3. Attacking the person, instead of the argument seems to be your standard
> operating procedure - calling other people names only brings into question
> your intellectual depth and expertise.
>
> 4. Sanjeev Sabhlok - what is the relevance to what we were discussing here?
> You seem to be labouring under a great misconception in terms of how
> Freedom Team of India members operate - there is no "guruji" as you seem to
> think and there is no single CEO, whom we have to follow. FTI is probably
> the most egalitarian organisation you will find in in India - each member
> is equal, and free to disagree with some one else, no matter how "eminent"
> an external observer may think that person to be.
>
> Please deal with Sanjeev directly on your differences - I have nothing to
> do with those - this is a strawman that you are posting here.
>
> 5. Your objectives for this mailing list and the HRA are quite clear to me
> - to impose a totalitarian and socialist solution in India, since you
> neither believe in markets nor in democracy. This is why I hardly engage on
> this list - but, sometimes people make such egregiously wrong statements or
> assumptions that I post a comment.
>
> You are clearly telling me that posting here is a waste of my time - so
> noted and will not do so in the future. In fact, I will unsubscribe now -
> it is another matter that someone from YOUR group subscribed me to this
> mailing list in the first place, without my asking to be included.
>
> Cheers
>
> S
>
>
> On 27 August 2014 18:58, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear S
>>
>> You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
>> half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
>> rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
>> security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
>> (c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
>> etc etc and so on..
>>
>> At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
>> (@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
>> purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
>> your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
>> illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
>>
>>
>> http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
>>
>> (A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
>> at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
>> is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
>> to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
>> why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
>> pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
>>
>>
>> http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
>>
>> (B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
>> virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
>> publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
>>
>> (i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
>>
>> (ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
>> fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
>> HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
>> cash ? ... and
>>
>> (iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
>> fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
>>
>> PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
>> 'desi' economics very very well.
>>
>> S
>>
>> On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught
>> in
>> > Indian schools upto class 12.
>> >
>> > That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and
>> prices
>> > and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography,
>> physical
>> > sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even
>> > those
>> > who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>> >
>> > No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>> >
>> > And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes
>> > to
>> > understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as
>> > part
>> > of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
>> > understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things
>> they
>> > do.
>> >
>> > Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
>> > economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
>> > treasuries.
>> >
>> > S
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Mr Basu,
Please do not worry about the name. Appreciate the detailed explanation. Would there be an optimal level of investment? Since we have a negative trade balance (unlike China), would that affect the amount to be invested? Could some of this money not have been invested say as loans to our corporate entities who seek loans from abroad to yield a better return or to retire government debt? Should there not be transparency in the process? Can we afford to pay NRIs about Rs 50,000 crores annually as interest on their investment? Just a few questions which come to mind. Do not expect answers but I hope this discussion would have stimulated some thinking. I think we need all shades of opinion on a group like this. I look forward to further contributions from you. Pavan Nair
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Shri Nair - pls excuse the typo in your name - inadvertent error.Dear Sarbajit,
1. Looks like you DO need to be a rocket scientist to understand why we need US $ in the first place - everything else you highlighted flows from this fact. If you didn't need US $, you wouldn't need to invest in US Treasuries, would you?
2. I am neither foreign educated (amchi mumbai provided all my education) nor an economist by training or occupation.3. Attacking the person, instead of the argument seems to be your standard operating procedure - calling other people names only brings into question your intellectual depth and expertise.
4. Sanjeev Sabhlok - what is the relevance to what we were discussing here? You seem to be labouring under a great misconception in terms of how Freedom Team of India members operate - there is no "guruji" as you seem to think and there is no single CEO, whom we have to follow. FTI is probably the most egalitarian organisation you will find in in India - each member is equal, and free to disagree with some one else, no matter how "eminent" an external observer may think that person to be.
Please deal with Sanjeev directly on your differences - I have nothing to do with those - this is a strawman that you are posting here.5. Your objectives for this mailing list and the HRA are quite clear to me - to impose a totalitarian and socialist solution in India, since you neither believe in markets nor in democracy. This is why I hardly engage on this list - but, sometimes people make such egregiously wrong statements or assumptions that I post a comment.
You are clearly telling me that posting here is a waste of my time - so noted and will not do so in the future. In fact, I will unsubscribe now - it is another matter that someone from YOUR group subscribed me to this mailing list in the first place, without my asking to be included.
Cheers
SOn 27 August 2014 18:58, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear S
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
(c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
etc etc and so on..
At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
(@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
(A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
(B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
(i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
(ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
cash ? ... and
(iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
'desi' economics very very well.
S
On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in
> Indian schools upto class 12.
>
> That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices
> and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical
> sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those
> who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>
> No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>
> And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to
> understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part
> of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
> understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they
> do.
>
> Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
> economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
> treasuries.
>
> S
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Re: [IAC#RG] CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
corrupt r no fear , It is the right created by sheltering CORRUPTS, not from resent but right from day of INCEPTION of FREEDOM , We call it INDEPENDENCE DAY , to-day we r living and facing our Housing Society who BARRED 315 members out of 555 and we r complaining since last 15 years but no Action took by any JT,Registrars and further added if any order.if PASSED it goes ultimately to the concerned MINISTER and it overturned by having PARTY-FUND then again Process to HC and given STAYS for unlimited term.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:
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ToIndia Against CorruptionCORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YETThe recent arrest of Manuneethi chozhan, the Registrar of Companies , on corruption charges in Chennai prove the extent to which the government officials, business men and politicians collude together to destroy this country. This arrest of the registrar of companies only indicate that the Naredra Modi government has not been able to create any fear amongst officials yet , about indulging in corrupt practices.This man was arrested earlier and was facing serious charges but was reinstated later on. The fact that such a person has been allowed to occupy such a crucial position at top level only indicate that the corrupt officials can get away with anything by playing politics. Media reports say that this man has several political connections .
In the past, many corrupt officials have gone scot free after initial arrest and getting bail. Such corrupt people seem to have great faith in Indian judicial system that it would not give any judgement too soon. The story of a Chief Minister's case pending in the court for nearly fifteen years is a ready example.
The net effect is that many corrupt people , whether they are official or politician or business man or even judge, do not suffer at all except for a brief period when they would be arrested and then released on bail.
Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.
Narendra Modi's government is yet to give an impression that it would effectively make the corrupt people pay the price for their misdeeds. Whatever may be Mr. Modi's achievements in other front, if he would not succeed in wiping out such corruption at national and regional level, the country men would not be satisfied.
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
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[IAC#RG] Minutes of National Council meeting of Maulik Bharat on 24th August 2014
मौलिक भारत, नेशनल यूथ पार्टी व सहयोगी संगठनों का संकल्प
गाँधी जयन्ती से दिल्ली एनसीआर में चलायेगें बड़ा सामाजिक जागरूकता अभियान
नषा नियंत्रण-अष्लीलता पर रोक-नारी उत्पीड़न से मुक्ति
द्य घर परिवार के सदस्यों एवं समाज में संवाद की निरंतरता एवं गहराई हो जिससे अकेलापन, अवसाद, तनाव जैसी स्थितियां न आ सकें और व्यक्ति नशे, नग्नता व नारी उत्पीडऩ जैसी घटनाओं को अंजाम न दे सके।
द्य व्यक्ति में आत्मबल, आत्संयम व आत्मअनुशासन जैसे तत्वों का समावेश करने हेतु सामाजिक अभियान चलाया जाना चाहिए।
द्य सभी सदस्य पहले अपने घर, फिर अपने गली, मोहल्ले, सेक्टर आदि में जनजागरूकता अभियान चलायें और फिर सार्वजनिक स्थलों यथा मंदिर, पार्क व स्कूलों में जन जागरूकता अभियान शुरू किये जायें।
द्य प्राथमिक चरण के रूप में नशे व अश्लीलता पर नियंत्रण की बात हो और अन्तत: इन पर पूर्ण प्रतिबंध लगना चाहिए।
द्य आबकारी, मद्य नियंत्रण विभाग और नशे से संबंधित सभी कानून, अश्लीलता व पोर्न को नियंत्रित करने वाले कानून, नारी उत्पीडऩ को रोकने वाले कानून, ये सभी राज्य सूची में न होकर संविधान की समवर्ती सूची में हो ताकि केन्द्र सरकार प्रभावी कानून बनाकर जनहित में आवश्यक कदम उठा सके।
द्य गृह, आईटी, सूचना प्रसारण, शिक्षा एवं स्वास्थ्य मंत्रालयों को एक-एक मांग पत्र दिया जाये जिसमें बिन्दूवार स्पष्ट मांगें हों तथा सभी आंदोलनकारी संगठनों का संयुक्त प्रतिनिधिमंडल इन मंत्रियों से मुलाकात कर स्थितियों को स्पष्ट करें।
द्य सितम्बर के अंतिम सप्ताह में एक बड़ी सेमिनार का आयोजन किया जाये जिसमें उपरोक्त विभागों के सभी मंत्रियों व अधिकारियों को आमंत्रित किया जाये और उनसे सरकार की नीतियों पर स्पष्टता ली जाये। यदि सरकार सही दिशा में कदम उठाती दिखाई देती है तो इंतजार किया जाये और अगर सरकार का रवैया टालू दिखे तो दो अक्टूबर को जंतर-मंतर पर बड़ी जनसभा की जाये और विधिवत लोकतांत्रिक तरीके से आंदोलन छेड़ दिया जाये।
द्य श्री सुरेश शर्मा आंदोलन के संयोजक रहेंगे जो सभी सदस्यों से मंत्रणा कर विभिन्न समितियों का गठन करेंगे।
गाँधी जयन्ती से दिल्ली एनसीआर में चलायेगें बड़ा सामाजिक जागरूकता अभियान
नषा नियंत्रण-अष्लीलता पर रोक-नारी उत्पीड़न से मुक्ति
प्रमुख सुझाव व निर्णय
द्य शिक्षा का मैकालिकरण रूके एवं योग, अध्यात्म तथा नैतिक शिक्षा का स्कूली पाठ्यक्रम में पुन: समावेश हो।
द्य शिक्षा का मैकालिकरण रूके एवं योग, अध्यात्म तथा नैतिक शिक्षा का स्कूली पाठ्यक्रम में पुन: समावेश हो।
द्य घर परिवार के सदस्यों एवं समाज में संवाद की निरंतरता एवं गहराई हो जिससे अकेलापन, अवसाद, तनाव जैसी स्थितियां न आ सकें और व्यक्ति नशे, नग्नता व नारी उत्पीडऩ जैसी घटनाओं को अंजाम न दे सके।
द्य व्यक्ति में आत्मबल, आत्संयम व आत्मअनुशासन जैसे तत्वों का समावेश करने हेतु सामाजिक अभियान चलाया जाना चाहिए।
द्य सभी सदस्य पहले अपने घर, फिर अपने गली, मोहल्ले, सेक्टर आदि में जनजागरूकता अभियान चलायें और फिर सार्वजनिक स्थलों यथा मंदिर, पार्क व स्कूलों में जन जागरूकता अभियान शुरू किये जायें।
द्य प्राथमिक चरण के रूप में नशे व अश्लीलता पर नियंत्रण की बात हो और अन्तत: इन पर पूर्ण प्रतिबंध लगना चाहिए।
द्य आबकारी, मद्य नियंत्रण विभाग और नशे से संबंधित सभी कानून, अश्लीलता व पोर्न को नियंत्रित करने वाले कानून, नारी उत्पीडऩ को रोकने वाले कानून, ये सभी राज्य सूची में न होकर संविधान की समवर्ती सूची में हो ताकि केन्द्र सरकार प्रभावी कानून बनाकर जनहित में आवश्यक कदम उठा सके।
द्य गृह, आईटी, सूचना प्रसारण, शिक्षा एवं स्वास्थ्य मंत्रालयों को एक-एक मांग पत्र दिया जाये जिसमें बिन्दूवार स्पष्ट मांगें हों तथा सभी आंदोलनकारी संगठनों का संयुक्त प्रतिनिधिमंडल इन मंत्रियों से मुलाकात कर स्थितियों को स्पष्ट करें।
द्य सितम्बर के अंतिम सप्ताह में एक बड़ी सेमिनार का आयोजन किया जाये जिसमें उपरोक्त विभागों के सभी मंत्रियों व अधिकारियों को आमंत्रित किया जाये और उनसे सरकार की नीतियों पर स्पष्टता ली जाये। यदि सरकार सही दिशा में कदम उठाती दिखाई देती है तो इंतजार किया जाये और अगर सरकार का रवैया टालू दिखे तो दो अक्टूबर को जंतर-मंतर पर बड़ी जनसभा की जाये और विधिवत लोकतांत्रिक तरीके से आंदोलन छेड़ दिया जाये।
द्य श्री सुरेश शर्मा आंदोलन के संयोजक रहेंगे जो सभी सदस्यों से मंत्रणा कर विभिन्न समितियों का गठन करेंगे।
With regards
Anuj Agarwal
National Gen. Secretary
Maulik Bharat Trust
09811424443
Rajkumar Singh
President
National Youth Party
Rajneesh Jha
Program Coordinator
Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Delhi school of Econ0mics was not established yesterday.
Funny, and here I was thinking that DSE only conducted undergrad and grad classes, just as JNU, Mumbai University and so many others do. (The quality of this economics "education" is of course a different matter) On 28 August 2014 23:37, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Basu does not seem to be adequately informed on education in economics at the secondary school level,college and post graduate level. Delhi school of Econ0mics was not established yesterday. Lack of popularity is due to lack of opportunity for employment in Govt./corporate sector till recently.What is surprising is that he finds the discussion on external sector not important enough compared to freedom for porn material and same sex relations.Surely recycled money coming as deposits or investment, parking of unaccounted money in foreign banks need to be probed and accounted for.JKGaur
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:14:47 +0530
From: pavannair1@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Shri Supratim Basu,I do feel that just as war is too important a subject to be left to the generals, the state of the economy must not be left to economists! Recall 2008. The question raised is not why we are investing in US Bonds but where is the need to hike this investment year after year. The amount invested was hiked by 19% in FY 13-14 to 73 billion dollars. Please read the article in the Economic Times. My argument is that this has been possible due to a surge in NRI deposits over the last few years. A back of the envelope calculation shows that the recurring loss per year on account of differential interest rates is Rs 4,800 crores on the incremental amount invested in FY13-14 (about 10 billion dollars). If we had not accepted an additional 10 billion dollars and not invested them in US Bonds, the exchequer would have gained by the mentioned amount. That is how I look at it as a layman. An economist's view may be different. Incidentally, I wrote a letter to the ET on the lines above which was published in the print editions the next day. I do hope you will see some merit in my argument. I feel there should be a moratorium on NRI deposits and further investment in US bonds till a white paper is published by the government as suggested by Shri Sant Mathur. I do endorse your view that economics should be included at the secondary level. Thank You. Pavan Nair
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
SThen, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US treasuries.It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in Indian schools upto class 12.And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they do.
That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
On 26 August 2014 10:43, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
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>>
>
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Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Shri Nair - pls excuse the typo in your name - inadvertent error.
Dear Sarbajit,1. Looks like you DO need to be a rocket scientist to understand why we need US $ in the first place - everything else you highlighted flows from this fact. If you didn't need US $, you wouldn't need to invest in US Treasuries, would you?
2. I am neither foreign educated (amchi mumbai provided all my education) nor an economist by training or occupation.
3. Attacking the person, instead of the argument seems to be your standard operating procedure - calling other people names only brings into question your intellectual depth and expertise.
4. Sanjeev Sabhlok - what is the relevance to what we were discussing here? You seem to be labouring under a great misconception in terms of how Freedom Team of India members operate - there is no "guruji" as you seem to think and there is no single CEO, whom we have to follow. FTI is probably the most egalitarian organisation you will find in in India - each member is equal, and free to disagree with some one else, no matter how "eminent" an external observer may think that person to be.
Please deal with Sanjeev directly on your differences - I have nothing to do with those - this is a strawman that you are posting here.
5. Your objectives for this mailing list and the HRA are quite clear to me - to impose a totalitarian and socialist solution in India, since you neither believe in markets nor in democracy. This is why I hardly engage on this list - but, sometimes people make such egregiously wrong statements or assumptions that I post a comment.
You are clearly telling me that posting here is a waste of my time - so noted and will not do so in the future. In fact, I will unsubscribe now - it is another matter that someone from YOUR group subscribed me to this mailing list in the first place, without my asking to be included.
Cheers
S
You are clearly telling me that posting here is a waste of my time - so noted and will not do so in the future. In fact, I will unsubscribe now - it is another matter that someone from YOUR group subscribed me to this mailing list in the first place, without my asking to be included.
Cheers
S
On 27 August 2014 18:58, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear S
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
(c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
etc etc and so on..
At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
(@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
(A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
(B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
(i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
(ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
cash ? ... and
(iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
'desi' economics very very well.
S
On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in
> Indian schools upto class 12.
>
> That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices
> and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical
> sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those
> who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>
> No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>
> And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to
> understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part
> of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
> understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they
> do.
>
> Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
> economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
> treasuries.
>
> S
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Thursday, August 28, 2014
[IAC#RG] CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
To
India Against Corruption
CORRUPT OFFICIALS DO NOT FEAR MODI GOVERNMENT YET
The recent arrest of Manuneethi chozhan, the Registrar of Companies , on corruption charges in Chennai prove the extent to which the government officials, business men and politicians collude together to destroy this country. This arrest of the registrar of companies only indicate that the Naredra Modi government has not been able to create any fear amongst officials yet , about indulging in corrupt practices.
This man was arrested earlier and was facing serious charges but was reinstated later on. The fact that such a person has been allowed to occupy such a crucial position at top level only indicate that the corrupt officials can get away with anything by playing politics. Media reports say that this man has several political connections .
In the past, many corrupt officials have gone scot free after initial arrest and getting bail. Such corrupt people seem to have great faith in Indian judicial system that it would not give any judgement too soon. The story of a Chief Minister's case pending in the court for nearly fifteen years is a ready example.
The net effect is that many corrupt people , whether they are official or politician or business man or even judge, do not suffer at all except for a brief period when they would be arrested and then released on bail.
Ultimately, corruption can be wiped out in India only by a determined and honest central government and what crusaders against corruption in public life may do can only be symbolic.
Narendra Modi's government is yet to give an impression that it would effectively make the corrupt people pay the price for their misdeeds. Whatever may be Mr. Modi's achievements in other front, if he would not succeed in wiping out such corruption at national and regional level, the country men would not be satisfied.
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
[IAC#RG] Forget RSS remember RRS
Unsung patriots of India - "Ruchi Ram Sahni"
HRA volunteer and bomb-maker extraordinary
http://true.brahmosamaj.in/ruchiram-1.pdf
HRA volunteer and bomb-maker extraordinary
http://true.brahmosamaj.in/ruchiram-1.pdf
RE: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Mr. Basu does not seem to be adequately informed on education in economics at the secondary school level,college and post graduate level. Delhi school of Econ0mics was not established yesterday. Lack of popularity is due to lack of opportunity for employment in Govt./corporate sector till recently.
What is surprising is that he finds the discussion on external sector not important enough compared to freedom for porn material and same sex relations.
Surely recycled money coming as deposits or investment, parking of unaccounted money in foreign banks need to be probed and accounted for.
JKGaur
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:14:47 +0530
From: pavannair1@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:14:47 +0530
From: pavannair1@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Shri Supratim Basu,
I do feel that just as war is too important a subject to be left to the generals, the state of the economy must not be left to economists! Recall 2008. The question raised is not why we are investing in US Bonds but where is the need to hike this investment year after year. The amount invested was hiked by 19% in FY 13-14 to 73 billion dollars. Please read the article in the Economic Times. My argument is that this has been possible due to a surge in NRI deposits over the last few years. A back of the envelope calculation shows that the recurring loss per year on account of differential interest rates is Rs 4,800 crores on the incremental amount invested in FY13-14 (about 10 billion dollars). If we had not accepted an additional 10 billion dollars and not invested them in US Bonds, the exchequer would have gained by the mentioned amount. That is how I look at it as a layman. An economist's view may be different. Incidentally, I wrote a letter to the ET on the lines above which was published in the print editions the next day. I do hope you will see some merit in my argument. I feel there should be a moratorium on NRI deposits and further investment in US bonds till a white paper is published by the government as suggested by Shri Sant Mathur. I do endorse your view that economics should be included at the secondary level. Thank You. Pavan Nair
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
SThen, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US treasuries.It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in Indian schools upto class 12.And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they do.
That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
On 26 August 2014 10:43, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
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>>
>
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Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Shri Pavin Nair,
Thanks for your email reply.Anyone needs to import anything, they effectively need to buy $ from the RBI.
China followed suit later.
On 28 August 2014 10:14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Shri Supratim Basu,I do feel that just as war is too important a subject to be left to the generals, the state of the economy must not be left to economists! Recall 2008. The question raised is not why we are investing in US Bonds but where is the need to hike this investment year after year. The amount invested was hiked by 19% in FY 13-14 to 73 billion dollars. Please read the article in the Economic Times. My argument is that this has been possible due to a surge in NRI deposits over the last few years. A back of the envelope calculation shows that the recurring loss per year on account of differential interest rates is Rs 4,800 crores on the incremental amount invested in FY13-14 (about 10 billion dollars). If we had not accepted an additional 10 billion dollars and not invested them in US Bonds, the exchequer would have gained by the mentioned amount. That is how I look at it as a layman. An economist's view may be different. Incidentally, I wrote a letter to the ET on the lines above which was published in the print editions the next day. I do hope you will see some merit in my argument. I feel there should be a moratorium on NRI deposits and further investment in US bonds till a white paper is published by the government as suggested by Shri Sant Mathur. I do endorse your view that economics should be included at the secondary level. Thank You. Pavan Nair
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
SThen, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US treasuries.It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in Indian schools upto class 12.And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they do.
That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
On 26 August 2014 10:43, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
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