Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Dear Ravi

My 2 paise -

#1 The RTI Act was actually subverted by the "idiots and traitors"
within the citizenry.

#2 The subversion resulted from ordinary citizens :-

a) ignorance of the finer points of law contained in RTI Act,

b) their falling victim to incitement by foreign financed CIA /
Magsaysay awarded RTI NGO haramis to overuse RTI for grievance
redressal (especially service related matters).

The IAS and babu clans (serving and retired) are paid to delay and
deny, and they have done their job very well.

Sarbajit

On 8/8/15, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Devinder Chopraji,
>
> With due respect, please permit me to inform you the Right to Information
> Act provided a golden opportunity to reform our administration and make it
> transparent and accountable. But the way it has been subverted right from
> the word go! You have to put on the shoes to know where it pinches! 50:50
> is a good statistically. But if there are any good babus I have not come
> across them. 100 pc of my experience with RTI has helped me only expose the
> idiots and traitors they are! And thus my series of blogs : RTIA-Exposing
> the idiots and traitors among public servants at
> http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in. And there are more there too!
>
> regards n bw
>
> ravi
>
> --
> Veteran Major P M Ravindran
> http://raviforjustice.blogspot.com
>
> You may also like to visit:
> 'Judiciary Watch' at www.vigilonline.com
> http://www.judicialreforms.org/
> http://www.roguepolice.com
> http://milapchoraria.tripod.com
>

Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Dear Devinder Chopraji,

With due respect, please permit me to inform you the Right to Information Act provided a golden opportunity to reform our administration  and make it transparent and accountable. But the way it has been subverted right from the word go! You have to put on the shoes to know where it pinches! 50:50 is a good statistically. But if there are any good babus I have not come across them. 100 pc of my experience with RTI has helped me only expose the idiots and traitors they are! And thus my series of blogs : RTIA-Exposing the idiots and traitors among public servants at http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in. And there are more there too!

regards n bw

ravi

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Devinder Chopra <ddchop47@gmail.com> wrote:

It is incorrect to generalise that all of IAS is dishonest or corrupt.

We as a people get carried away, indulge in generalisations without reason.

India has run, good, bad indifferent -- the country has been developing on account of at least more than half of the officers doing their bit, by you & i. 

We get carried away; do we ever consider what were we like during the first 10 years after our Independence ? i am now running 82, and have seen much of our land and people. (Always worked with NGOs, refugees, leprosariums, rural development, etc., etc.) Large parts of our country and people are perhaps the poorest --- and it is not easy to deal with 1.23 billion.

Our politicians have corrupted our bureaucracy -- that is true. The IAS types, whoever slipped among them have given a bad name to their service & undercut their goals and objectives.

Strict and better + honest supervision can still re-coup what appears to be a major loss to the ones who have written totally against this 'STEEL FRAME OF SORTS" !

Let us not undo or undercut what can be improved plus made more effective by recruiting, through stiff tests the professionals etc. who can make the service relevant to the needs of India in the 21 st century. That is create more open competition from the private sector and bring in those who are concerned with sanitation, water supply, energy, etc. etc.

India has a great future, as long as we do not undo the democratic processes we have got used to in the past 7 decades. We must reform the police service in the length and breadth of our country. Not under-cut our ideals by leaving it all to the p;oliticians in the States concerned !

dev chopra in gurgaon

***

 

On 2 August 2015 at 20:00, Vishwanath Mada <vishmada@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes 

I would say Honestly. They are turning to be terrarist rather than honest administrators like their earlier colleagues. These people compete to make how much others made 

and out pass each one of them.

Every public sector organization and other companies they have tried to control some how.  With the result they do not allow other than their clan to function effectively.

Time to shut down with the experience of handling them by the Polititions and the publlic at large.

Even it is time the JDICIARY is brought to accountability at all cost. Increase the number of days they work in a year like any other organization. British have left but british

holidays are still persisting with all might. Recruitment should at all level of JUDGES must be purely on merit and no reservation of any kind. Every JUDGEMENT must be 

re assessed to the merit of of the case presented and the arguments must be studied. Back logs must be cleared. No date after date. It has to be reexamined why it was 

necessary to grant date.

Case must be presented in a brief form for the JUDGE to understand the frame work of the case.

Thanks

Vishwanath Mada

Executive President

Maharashtra State Human Rights Centre

cell. no. 9892356549

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 15:34:51 +0800
From: hiraknag@yahoo.co.in
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
CC: genharbhajansingh@yahoo.com; gaurjk@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

IAS being ill treated by politicians. So who ill-treats the politicians, the Aam Admi. So who ill-treats the Aam Admi, the IAS. The IAS is ill-treated-----Its a circular thing, never, ending !-----------Hirak.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 21/7/15, John Philipose <gigijohn8263@googlemail.com> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down
 To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
 Cc: "Harbhajan Singh" <genharbhajansingh@yahoo.com>, "Gaur J K" <gaurjk@hotmail.com>
 Date: Tuesday, 21 July, 2015, 7:06 AM
 
 Dear Pranab- though I
 agree that 50% of these guys are ill treated by the
 politicians- most of them deserve it in any case! However
 that should not give a license to 50 % of these blokes to
 misbehave and indulge in large scale curroption. It is a
 known fact that the greatest hindrance to Governance in this
 country is the Government. They need to be packed off lock,
 stock & barrel. Instead technocrats should take over
 Governance. The Agriculculture Secretary could well be one
 from the department or the Agricultural university, after
 being specialised in Administration for a couple of years.
 An IPS guy should be the Home secretary, IFS (forest) guy
 the Forest secretary, Military officer the Defence
 Secretary, a Scientist with Administrative experience as the
 Scientific Advisor & so on. The IAS should be disbanded
 in the next deccade.
 On Sat, Jul 18, 2015
 at 10:12 AM, Pranab Kumar Chakravarty <pranabkumar.chakravarty@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 I am a senior journalist and have worked in
 several states besides covering assignments for my  media
  in many states and at the Center. I am constrained to say
 that I say with my own eyes how the bureaucrats are treated
 shabbily by their political masters and I will not advise
 any one remotely related to me to aspire to become an IAS or
 IPS officer.Bureaucrats in some states are forced to
 touch the feet of their political bosses to keep them happy
 since they write their annual CRs  I am told that IAS and
 IPS officers have their forums at state and national
 levels.I like many of you  wonder why they keep mum when
 some officers of their cadre are inhumanly treated
 .You may be more knowledgeable about me .And
 hence, I  ask you if you will advise your academically
 brilliant daughters and sons to become bureaucrats to be
 treated like slaves ? Please do not accuse me of creating
 rift between political class and bureaucrats. They do have
 an important role to play in serving the people.What I
 EMPHASIZE IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE A CODE OF CONDUCT ON THE
 DAY TO DAY FUNCTIONING AND RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO
 IMPORTANT STAKEHOLDERS FOR THE TRANSPARENT AND SMOOTH
 FUNCTIONING OF OUR DEMOCRATIC WAY OF LIFE.
 On 17 July 2015 at
 11:24, Vidyut <wide.aware@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 There are problems with the IAS, there are
 problems with politicians. Alas, controlling each other is
 rarely about public interest. Perhaps I am cynical, but I
 don't think there are any magic fixes. Boring as it
 seems without a quick pill, I think it is going to take
 alert citizens relentlessly demanding accountability,
 scrutinizing and curbing every wrong that comes to
 light.
 I think people consider the government or
 bureaucracy more like a service that ought to be perfect or
 you will call up customer service. Alas, in a democracy, the
 final boss is the citizen and it may be like herding cats,
 but in the end of the day, they will have to keep an eye on
 their employees and reward, punish or remove as
 necessary.
 The most important thing is to mobilize people.
 Not go one morcha or andolan or against one bad guy, but in
 the spirit of vigilant and involved management of their own
 country.
 Perfection is a convenient mirage that allows
 people to shruf off their own role on the stage. The only
 hope is continuous improvement.
 Vidyut
 Vidyut
 Social Media: Twitter Facebook Google+ Diaspora
 
 Blogs: Intellectual
 Anarchy || personal || Nisarga || tech || Homeschooling ||
 Fek
 Le
 
 On Fri, Jul 17, 2015
 at 10:19 AM, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 You
 may like to go through the appended write up written by an
 IAS officer  . Though it is long but worth reading
  . I have read every word
  but found that he has not analyzed  as to who has been
 responsible for  bringing such a state of affair of our
 country. 
 It is my
 feeling that the so called Steel Frame of the country, the
 bureaucratic set up is responsible . This gets confirmed
 when  we analyze  working of our governing system after
 independence. It has  been the bureaucrats who kept on
 grabbing all the powers by be-fooling both the politicians
 and the public by twisting the rules to meet the
 requirements of the people whom they wanted to
 help.
 Such
 a situation would have never creeped in our governing system
 had  they  been fair to all with  the authority and the
 powers they were enjoying .All these years the
 Joint Secretary of a Ministry  is considered as the
 Government. 
 
 Please
 advise if I am wrong in my analyses.
 Brig J S
 Ahuja
 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015
 at 11:17 AM, Harbhajan Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
 wrote:
 My
 Dear Gaur,
 How are you? 
 
 I wonder if this topic is discussed in the
 NDC!!!!!
 We require Administrative and political reforms.
 But dear Gaur all the Governments are being managed by the
 IAS!!! Does any one think IAS would let any such reforms
 take place and above all be implemented!! Just look at OROP
 case!!!
 
 We need a military/Presidential take over for two
 years in which the agenda should be administrative and
 political reforms and then hand over the reigns back to the
 new dispensation. I agree it is an Utopian idea but if we
 need to achieve some thing such ideas have to come
 up.
 My considered view is that India is going to go
 down the drain and China-Pak combine will subjugate us in a
 decade or two may be. Things on the ground for common people
 including our types are very bad indeed and deteriorating
 fast.
 
 Harbhajan SinghLt Gen
 
        
 From: Gaur J K
 <gaurjk@hotmail.com>
  To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
 <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
 
  Sent:
 Tuesday, 14 July 2015 3:26 PM
  Subject: RE:
 [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down
    
 
 
 
 13/7/15
 Yes, but will it not be a piece-meal
 change?Our whole system of governance is based on
 the colonial british model.Our judicial system is
 based on the same.Our laws are based on the same.
 Some laws are as old as 1860 just after it was taken over by
 the Imperial power.
 Our Constitution is primarily drawing upon the British
 Model. Yet the realisation that changes are
 needed in the institutions of Governance should lead to the
 desired changes sooner or later.Hiring of
 experts/advisors outside the IAS system could be one way to
 dilute their dominance. Mr. Modi seems to have realised and
 doing so in some areas.JKGaur
 From: dhiranil@hotmail.com
 To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 23:15:59 +0530
 Subject: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Forwarding as received, for it makes a lot of
 sense, sharing this article specially with those among us,
 who love welfare of our Society, our Armed Forces, and above
 all, our country as a whole.  It is an open fact that they
 are also the creator of the problem that is existing and
 around the widely known subject matter as OROP issue
 !Anil Dhir
 
 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:34:09 +0530
 Subject: Fwd: It's time to shut the IAS down
 From: 
 To: 
 
 
 It's time to shut
 the IAS down                    (
 A forward as received) Last updated on: June
 08, 2015 13:17
 ISTThe IAS distrusts
 outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured
 cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the
 legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it
 admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us
 can discern. Mihir S Sharma explains.If Prime Minister
 Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he
 has raised, it will not be entirely his
 fault.After all, he has
 moderated his promises.The shining vision
 of India's future he outlined in early 2014 has been
 replaced by the -- still inspiring -- set of aspirations
 listed in the 2015
 Budget.A house for everyone
 by 2022, with 24-hour power, clean drinking water, a road
 and modern sanitation; one job per family, medical and
 skilling facilities close by, and much else of that
 nature.You cannot fault his
 targets, and you cannot fault his
 energy.If he seems to have
 little idea of how to get there, well, he was never asked
 for such details about implementation on the campaign trail,
 so it's a little late to complain
 now.The problem is that
 he is trying to drive the country to these oh-so-distant
 targets by 2022, but he still has the same old car with
 which to do it.Today, in the middle
 of 2015, it is doubly, triply, quadruply clear that changing
 the driver was not enough -- the driver was never the
 biggest, the realest problem. The real problem is the
 car.Modi might have the
 will, the energy, the sincerity and the ambition. But unless
 he fundamentally changes the system that implements his
 will, that realises his ambition, he is doomed to
 fail.And that system is
 the Indian government and its bureaucracy. I want you to
 pause for a moment to think, as objectively as you can,
 about how farcical it is.We, the world's
 fastest-growing economy and its largest democracy, have a
 state structure basically unchanged from the extractive
 system set up to rule a vast, pastoral country on behalf of
 a distant island nation.We have a twice-born
 bureaucracy that holds so much
 power.Why? Because they
 are the happy inheritors of a system in which civil servants
 would have been loyal to Queen and Whitehall, but ministers
 may have been dangerously nationalist -- and thus needed to
 be easily vetoed or
 blocked.We still have a
 tenured, generalist civil service, organised on Victorian
 public-school principles, even as our economy and governance
 become fiendishly more
 complex.Every single foreign
 investor, foreign do-gooder, foreign diplomat, is astounded
 by both the intelligence of their Indian bureaucratic
 interlocutor and their -- much of the time -- complete and
 utter ignorance of the issues at
 hand.What else can you
 expect?The person having to
 deal with FIIs today may have been dealing with water
 harvesting yesterday.No matter how high
 your rank in a deadly dull competitive examination in the
 early 1980s, you will not handle that transition
 seamlessly.It is natural,
 therefore, that you take no risks and show no imagination;
 you are, after all, always a step behind those you are
 regulating or governing.It is less natural that
 you are incredibly arrogant even while being that step
 behind. (Or to suppose that anyone else in government being
 paid more than you would be a colossal, extraordinary insult
 to the Indian Republic, equivalent to Bangladesh annexing
 most of Eastern India. Imagine if a tax expert or a lawyer
 was hired from the private sector and paid more than the
 Cabinet Secretary! The whole edifice of government would
 collapse! Anarchy would rule! Four southern states would
 sink into the sea! Etc,
 etc)We have an
 un-fire-able, unaccountable civil service, which can screw
 up as much as it likes -- consider, for example, the
 monumental error that was the FII-MAT (minimum alternate
 tax) imbroglio -- and still will face no
 consequences.This is the largest
 cause of the institutionalised mediocrity that holds this
 country back. Even promotions are largely dependent on
 seniority and not record; nobody would run any other
 organisation thus, but it's OK to run a complicated,
 under-governed country like
 this?Ah, we are told, but
 insulating administrators is necessary to ensure they are
 not subject to politicisation -- to ensure they are
 "independent".This laughable claim
 can only be the product of wilfully refusing to actually
 read even one newspaper headline over the past 20
 years.Who can claim that
 bureaucrats are not politicised, given contemporary history?
 How many have simply refused to sign what they are supposed
 to? There are some such glorious names, but vanishingly
 few.Combine these three
 factors, and you have a government machinery that is
 unaccountable, under-informed, and all-powerful. It lacks
 creativity. It automatically stifles innovation (witness the
 colossal idiocy underlying its shutdown of Uber in the
 capital).There is no alternative
 but to shut these people down. Root-and-branch reform,
 beginning with an end to the imperial-era privileges of the
 Indian Administrative
 Service.The IAS distrusts
 outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured
 cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the
 legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it
 admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us
 can discern.The prime minister,
 sadly, agrees with that.He, too, seems to
 imagine that his transformative promises can be
 operationalised and implemented by the same people who have
 failed us for 70 years.His first action on
 entering 7, Race Course Road, was to tell the secretaries to
 the Union that they could speak to him directly, cutting out
 their ministers.Subsequently he took
 over all appointments. This is in a way natural; when Modi
 was appointed chief minister of Gujarat, he had no
 experience of -- or history of interest in --
 policy.Guess who he turned
 to? Perhaps that's why the bureaucrats other Indians see
 as obstructive, backward-looking monuments to institutional
 arrogance are seen by our prime minister as gentle tutors in
 the art of governance.This is a pity,
 since the only way he will actually transform India is by
 first transforming its hopelessly out-of-date
 government.Actually, if Prime
 Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations
 that he has raised, it will be entirely his fault. He should
 have started by ending the
 IAS.
 
 
       
 
       
 
     
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 
 
 
    		 	   		  
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
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--

Veteran Major P M Ravindran

http://raviforjustice.blogspot.com

 

You may also like to visit:

'Judiciary Watch' at www.vigilonline.com 

http://www.judicialreforms.org/

http://www.roguepolice.com

http://milapchoraria.tripod.com

Re: [IAC#RG] The Lawless Lawyers

Dear Friends

            The whole system faces severe distress and decay. The top people in the executive belongs to the deep bottom layer personnels who are incompetent to be there. The people at large at the bottom select 'their representatives' who are not expected to be the best to be placed as executives. The cituation can be compared with allowing the masses to choose a driver for running a vehicle with out any certificate for driving ie. license or any credentials for the same. The 'chosen driver' dares to to take the vehicle with full board and will take to the route of disaster  and trouble to the travelling public. In rarest of rare occassions we may be successful in selecting competent man to the post so much so wait and see whether the people erred or not in selecting Modi to the post. Let us hope and pray for good days ahead.

    Dr.M.C.George, Advocate INFAM(IndianFarmersMovement)National Trustee.  

On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 10:55 PM, Dr Protyush <protyush.chatterjee@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a grim situation. But this is no news. The whole of India, every profession is going down in ethics. There is hardly any ethics anywhere- politicians, lawyers. doctors, teachers, govt babus - real disturbing situation. May God save this country 

Sent from my iPad

On 30-Jul-2015, at 7:44 pm, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:

To

India Against Corruption

                                                                                                                                                      THE  LAWLESS  LAWYERS

The chairman of Bar Council of India said recently in Chennai that one third of the lawyers in India are fake. But, the loud mouthed lawyers did not comment about this startling revelation and are conspicuous by silence.

Drunken brawl between lawyers in Chennai are no more uncommon. Many law students in Chennai have fought  pitched battles with stones and draggers  and murders have been reported. While such unsavoury incidents continue, it now has reached a new low , as the lawyers in Puduchery prevented the magistrate from leaving the chamber, when he remanded a junior lawyer for misconduct. The crowd of lawyers insisted that the accused  lawyer  should be released on bail and the magistrate yielded so that he could come out of the court complex. Similar conditions prevail all over India.

Lawyers are known to say lies without twinkling of eyelid  but the image of the lawyers have now become so tarnished that people are no more surprised , when it is revealed that one third of the lawyers in India are fake.

Many people are now suspicious of some of the judgements and several judges at various levels face accusation of corrupt practices. The lawless lawyers only further reflect on the state of judiciary in India.

It is extremely important that a screening committee should be immediately appointed by government of India to filter out the fake lawyers all over the country. Lawyers all over India should be asked to submit their qualification credentials for verification and the task cannot be simply left to bar council of India.  It is too serious a situation , as judges are being selected out of these lawyers and judiciary has a very important role to play in safeguarding probity in public life.

N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

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Re: [IAC#RG] The Lawless Lawyers

Lawyers are trained Law breakers now .Each case should be brought to the notice of Registrar of Chief Justice Supreme Court of India and Bar Council for a break in such unlawful activities.

 

With kind regards

A.K.BHATTACHARYYA

F.I.StructE (UK), FIE (India), FIBE, FIRT
H-2A, Hauzkhas, New Delhi -16, Ph:011-26854127

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 10:51 PM, captainjohann <bjsamuhanand@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Sir,

     What about the lawyers who are legally qualified but then flout all ethics by using their connections to Politicians, big business and the like.The very fact Finance Ministry has become monopoly of Lawyers like Chidambaram, Arun Jailey etc shows the power of Delhi Mafia

 

"Greatness lies not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall"

Captain Johann samuhanand,  BANGALORE  INDIA

91 80  42023252   

www.captainjohann.blogspot.com

 

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 9:21 AM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:

To

India Against Corruption

                                                                                                                                                      THE  LAWLESS  LAWYERS

The chairman of Bar Council of India said recently in Chennai that one third of the lawyers in India are fake. But, the loud mouthed lawyers did not comment about this startling revelation and are conspicuous by silence.

Drunken brawl between lawyers in Chennai are no more uncommon. Many law students in Chennai have fought  pitched battles with stones and draggers  and murders have been reported. While such unsavoury incidents continue, it now has reached a new low , as the lawyers in Puduchery prevented the magistrate from leaving the chamber, when he remanded a junior lawyer for misconduct. The crowd of lawyers insisted that the accused  lawyer  should be released on bail and the magistrate yielded so that he could come out of the court complex. Similar conditions prevail all over India.

Lawyers are known to say lies without twinkling of eyelid  but the image of the lawyers have now become so tarnished that people are no more surprised , when it is revealed that one third of the lawyers in India are fake.

Many people are now suspicious of some of the judgements and several judges at various levels face accusation of corrupt practices. The lawless lawyers only further reflect on the state of judiciary in India.

It is extremely important that a screening committee should be immediately appointed by government of India to filter out the fake lawyers all over the country. Lawyers all over India should be asked to submit their qualification credentials for verification and the task cannot be simply left to bar council of India.  It is too serious a situation , as judges are being selected out of these lawyers and judiciary has a very important role to play in safeguarding probity in public life.

N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

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Re: [IAC#RG] The Lawless Lawyers

Hi all,
There is a criminal nexus between Lawyers-Police-Polititians. For short call it 'unholy nexus'. This unholy nexus perpetuates all kinds of legal and illegal atrocities upon hapless public. For example, in the example of Puduchery  given in this piece, what was the police doing? Why did they not take any action against the obstructing lawyers for 'obstructing a Civil servant in the performance of his duties'?

Illegal degrees are everywhere. Not only this the whole lot of us have become dishonest and corrupt, in every other walk of life. There is a very good Urdu verse describing the resultant situation:
                                                 

                                                    "Rag rag mein hai naasoor,

                                                     Nashtar lagaein kahaan kahaan"

                                                    "Every artery is affected by the rot of the cancer,

                                                         Whither should the surgery be performed?"

Has the country become incurable/ungovernable?  Was democracy (in its present form) and so much of freedom suited to our intrinsic characteristics? These are the questions relevant under the current state of the Nation. For almost seven decades we have tried democracy. It has brought us, today, to this present hopeless situation. Should we continue with it or should it be replaced by some other system which would be better suited to our national character? This is the subject that needs debate. Otherwise, we will be discussing 'lawless lawyers', 'corrupt police', 'corrupt politician', 'corrupt corporations, 'corrupt public behaviour' (rape, terror and so on), 'disruption of parliament by MP's' and so on ........ an unending list.

Over-population and poor governance have been the root causes from which all these other evils of India are sprung. These again are directly associated with our National Characteristics.

Thanks & Regards,

Randhir Phagura

                                                           

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Dharmesh Dutta <duttadharmesh@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sirs,

Is there any single department in governance today that one could look up to and say with pride that it is functioning lawfully? A forensic audit that is based on information technology is the need of the hour. Setting up committees have not yielded the desired results and have, on the contrary, drained more resources, financial or otherwise!

As is true in any other major irregularity, the numbers involved (money + people) are so large that the cost of such an audit can be off-set even if it is given to any of the large accounting firms of repute. Alternatively, there are significant number of upright retired bureaucrats who could be assisted by the young IT professionals to devise ways and means to stem the rot.

It's about time IAC gets some teeth to take the project off the "design board" to "action ground".

   
    

Regards

Dharmesh

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:

To

India Against Corruption

                                                                                                                                                      THE  LAWLESS  LAWYERS

The chairman of Bar Council of India said recently in Chennai that one third of the lawyers in India are fake. But, the loud mouthed lawyers did not comment about this startling revelation and are conspicuous by silence.

Drunken brawl between lawyers in Chennai are no more uncommon. Many law students in Chennai have fought  pitched battles with stones and draggers  and murders have been reported. While such unsavoury incidents continue, it now has reached a new low , as the lawyers in Puduchery prevented the magistrate from leaving the chamber, when he remanded a junior lawyer for misconduct. The crowd of lawyers insisted that the accused  lawyer  should be released on bail and the magistrate yielded so that he could come out of the court complex. Similar conditions prevail all over India.

Lawyers are known to say lies without twinkling of eyelid  but the image of the lawyers have now become so tarnished that people are no more surprised , when it is revealed that one third of the lawyers in India are fake.

Many people are now suspicious of some of the judgements and several judges at various levels face accusation of corrupt practices. The lawless lawyers only further reflect on the state of judiciary in India.

It is extremely important that a screening committee should be immediately appointed by government of India to filter out the fake lawyers all over the country. Lawyers all over India should be asked to submit their qualification credentials for verification and the task cannot be simply left to bar council of India.  It is too serious a situation , as judges are being selected out of these lawyers and judiciary has a very important role to play in safeguarding probity in public life.

N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

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Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

My own view is that the entire system from hiring to training to performance evaluation to reward-punishment needs complete overhaul from the present stone-age practices.

However, overhauling only the IAS in isolation will not work. Other wings of governance such as police, judiciary, administration, electorate system, etc. also need to be corrected.

BUT, I also think it is far too late, and we are sunk.

---

From: pirthipal singh dhillon <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Very educative comments.I take this opportunity to present few thoughts having spent all working time in MNCs of world repute.Experience gained during interaction with IAS/IPS/IRS etc had been very positive & very negative.I also got insight of working style of these professionals as my younger brother also belonged to IAS cadre.I feel basic intelligence level is available but clarity on Job description is missing.This question I asked Kejriwal during India Against Corruption days movement that : did he get job description letter when he joined & whether Kiran bedi got it:.He could not give me clear answer.So this issue requires more in depth understanding before we pass any judgement. Governance issue is very critical now in fast changing environment.

Regards

Dhillon

---

From: Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com>
To: Dr. NC Jain <j_nc2000@yahoo.com>
Cc: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Sorry Dr Jain, you seen to have got carried away by the opulance of the district collector's office! The best of them are simply good clerks and nothing more. But most of them are idiots/traitors. You are welcome to go through my blog 'IAS- INDIAN ASSHOLES-ON-STRIKE SERVICE' at

http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in/2012/04/ias-indian-assholes-on-strike-service.html

They are just custodians of documents with a skill set-making briefs and answering comprehension questions- acquired by anybody who has been to school beyond 5th standard! Of course for the UPSC exam they ask a lot of irrelevant questions- more in the nature of buying lottery tickets than serving any meaningful purpose!

A case study of these clerks have subverted the RTI Act will by itself prove what a treacherous lot we have for assisting the politically elected decision makers in the governance of the country! Again you may go through my series of blogs - -RTIA-EXPOSING THE IDIOTS AND TRAITORS AMOUNG PUBLIC SERVANTS- at  http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in

regards n bw

ravi

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:57 PM, "Dr. NC Jain" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

Dear sir

   In my opinion, IAS should not be scrapped . Its training should be modified according to circumstances and new environment.IAS is the cream of Indians and they should be encouraged to use their maximum potential. Today, India is free and we have to make Indians free. IAS officers can play an important role to make Indians free.

Dr N C Jain

27-7-15 

On Monday, July 27, 2015 7:40 AM, umesh rohatgi <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

if they wish to serve is there than make sure you reward people who come to you instead of them punishment and at least talk to them as equal offer chair to them and then talk to them and don't attend any one call while you are taking to them and see how y can help them and rules are there to help people not punish. change the attitude first

 umesh rashmi rohatgi

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:22 AM, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:

I am glad to see a post by a civil service aspirant here! I have to admit one fact-there is not one civil service aspirant who had not stated that the reason they wanted to join the civil services is to serve the society. The range of sincerity in  those words may vary from 0 pc to 100 pc. But it is equally true that sooner than later, once in service, they transform from service providers to perks and privilege seekers! 

One observation that needs to be commented upon is the one regarding institutional overhauling vs societal overhauling. Let us admit there will always be a few undesirable elements in all societies and it is to check these undesirable elements that we have the elaborate system of governance. So the one point agenda of every society, as a society, should be to make this govt work. And that is why we need to go for institutional overhaul and not societal overhaul! The former should be pragmatic and the latter a mere wild goose chase.

Now, those interested may read my two blogs:

'IAS- INDIAN ASSHOLES-ON-STRIKE SERVICE' at 

http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in/2012/04/ias-indian-assholes-on-strike-service.html

and

'RTI Act-Shailesh Gandhi and Schopenhauer's Law of Entropy' at

http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in/2012/06/rti-act-shailesh-gandhi-and.html

regards

ravi

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Dipanshi Rathore <rathore.dipanshi@gmail.com> wrote:

It will sound very simple. but needs a very broad understanding to be able to assimilate!
a)India needs a specific kind of an educational reform to undo the conditioning that has crept deep into the minds
b) moral standards need to be reinvoked
c) spirituality is the key to bring high moral ground among the people and only it can take the country on the path of being a super power in the coming future
No institutional/ machinery overhauling is required! It is the societal overhauling that is needed.

Regards
Dipanshi
(A Civil Service Aspirant)

On 18-Jul-2015 12:25 am, "Vidyut" <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:

There are problems with the IAS, there are problems with politicians. Alas, controlling each other is rarely about public interest. Perhaps I am cynical, but I don't think there are any magic fixes. Boring as it seems without a quick pill, I think it is going to take alert citizens relentlessly demanding accountability, scrutinizing and curbing every wrong that comes to light.

I think people consider the government or bureaucracy more like a service that ought to be perfect or you will call up customer service. Alas, in a democracy, the final boss is the citizen and it may be like herding cats, but in the end of the day, they will have to keep an eye on their employees and reward, punish or remove as necessary.

The most important thing is to mobilize people. Not go one morcha or andolan or against one bad guy, but in the spirit of vigilant and involved management of their own country.

Perfection is a convenient mirage that allows people to shruf off their own role on the stage. The only hope is continuous improvement.

Vidyut

Vidyut

Social Media: Twitter Facebook Google+ Diaspora

Blogs: Intellectual Anarchy || personal || Nisarga || tech || Homeschooling || Fek Le

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com> wrote:

You may like to go through the appended write up written by an IAS officer  . Though it is long but worth reading  . 

I have read every word  but found that he has not analyzed  as to who has been responsible for  bringing such a state of affair of our country. 

It is my feeling that the so called Steel Frame of the country, the bureaucratic set up is responsible . This gets confirmed when  we analyze  working of our governing system after independence. It has  been the bureaucrats who kept on grabbing all the powers by be-fooling both the politicians and the public by twisting the rules to meet the requirements of the people whom they wanted to help.

Such a situation would have never creeped in our governing system had  they  been fair to all with  the authority and the powers they were enjoying .All these years the Joint Secretary of a Ministry  is considered as the Government. 

Please advise if I am wrong in my analyses.

Brig J S Ahuja

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Harbhajan Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

My Dear Gaur,

How are you?

I wonder if this topic is discussed in the NDC!!!!!

We require Administrative and political reforms. But dear Gaur all the Governments are being managed by the IAS!!! Does any one think IAS would let any such reforms take place and above all be implemented!! Just look at OROP case!!!

We need a military/Presidential take over for two years in which the agenda should be administrative and political reforms and then hand over the reigns back to the new dispensation. I agree it is an Utopian idea but if we need to achieve some thing such ideas have to come up.

My considered view is that India is going to go down the drain and China-Pak combine will subjugate us in a decade or two may be. Things on the ground for common people including our types are very bad indeed and deteriorating fast.

Harbhajan Singh

Lt Gen

---

From: Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

13/7/15

Yes, but will it not be a piece-meal change?

Our whole system of governance is based on the colonial british model.

Our judicial system is based on the same.

Our laws are based on the same. Some laws are as old as 1860 just after it was taken over by the Imperial power.
Our Constitution is primarily drawing upon the British Model. 

Yet the realisation that changes are needed in the institutions of Governance should lead to the desired changes sooner or later.

Hiring of experts/advisors outside the IAS system could be one way to dilute their dominance. Mr. Modi seems to have realised and doing so in some areas.

JKGaur

---

From: dhiranil@hotmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 23:15:59 +0530
Subject: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Forwarding as received, for it makes a lot of sense, sharing this article specially with those among us, who love welfare of our Society, our Armed Forces, and above all, our country as a whole.  It is an open fact that they are also the creator of the problem that is existing and around the widely known subject matter as OROP issue !

Anil Dhir

---

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:34:09 +0530
Subject: Fwd: It's time to shut the IAS down
From: 
To:

It's time to shut the IAS down

                    ( A forward as received)

 

Last updated on: June 08, 2015 13:17 IST

The IAS distrusts outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us can discern. Mihir S Sharma explains.

If Prime Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he has raised, it will not be entirely his fault.

After all, he has moderated his promises.

The shining vision of India's future he outlined in early 2014 has been replaced by the -- still inspiring -- set of aspirations listed in the 2015 Budget.

A house for everyone by 2022, with 24-hour power, clean drinking water, a road and modern sanitation; one job per family, medical and skilling facilities close by, and much else of that nature.

You cannot fault his targets, and you cannot fault his energy.

If he seems to have little idea of how to get there, well, he was never asked for such details about implementation on the campaign trail, so it's a little late to complain now.

The problem is that he is trying to drive the country to these oh-so-distant targets by 2022, but he still has the same old car with which to do it.

Today, in the middle of 2015, it is doubly, triply, quadruply clear that changing the driver was not enough -- the driver was never the biggest, the realest problem. The real problem is the car.

Modi might have the will, the energy, the sincerity and the ambition. But unless he fundamentally changes the system that implements his will, that realises his ambition, he is doomed to fail.

And that system is the Indian government and its bureaucracy. I want you to pause for a moment to think, as objectively as you can, about how farcical it is.

We, the world's fastest-growing economy and its largest democracy, have a state structure basically unchanged from the extractive system set up to rule a vast, pastoral country on behalf of a distant island nation.

We have a twice-born bureaucracy that holds so much power.

Why? Because they are the happy inheritors of a system in which civil servants would have been loyal to Queen and Whitehall, but ministers may have been dangerously nationalist -- and thus needed to be easily vetoed or blocked.

We still have a tenured, generalist civil service, organised on Victorian public-school principles, even as our economy and governance become fiendishly more complex.

Every single foreign investor, foreign do-gooder, foreign diplomat, is astounded by both the intelligence of their Indian bureaucratic interlocutor and their -- much of the time -- complete and utter ignorance of the issues at hand.

What else can you expect?

The person having to deal with FIIs today may have been dealing with water harvesting yesterday.

No matter how high your rank in a deadly dull competitive examination in the early 1980s, you will not handle that transition seamlessly.

It is natural, therefore, that you take no risks and show no imagination; you are, after all, always a step behind those you are regulating or governing.

It is less natural that you are incredibly arrogant even while being that step behind. (Or to suppose that anyone else in government being paid more than you would be a colossal, extraordinary insult to the Indian Republic, equivalent to Bangladesh annexing most of Eastern India. Imagine if a tax expert or a lawyer was hired from the private sector and paid more than the Cabinet Secretary! The whole edifice of government would collapse! Anarchy would rule! Four southern states would sink into the sea! Etc, etc)

We have an un-fire-able, unaccountable civil service, which can screw up as much as it likes -- consider, for example, the monumental error that was the FII-MAT (minimum alternate tax) imbroglio -- and still will face no consequences.

This is the largest cause of the institutionalised mediocrity that holds this country back. Even promotions are largely dependent on seniority and not record; nobody would run any other organisation thus, but it's OK to run a complicated, under-governed country like this?

Ah, we are told, but insulating administrators is necessary to ensure they are not subject to politicisation -- to ensure they are "independent".

This laughable claim can only be the product of wilfully refusing to actually read even one newspaper headline over the past 20 years.

Who can claim that bureaucrats are not politicised, given contemporary history? How many have simply refused to sign what they are supposed to? There are some such glorious names, but vanishingly few.

Combine these three factors, and you have a government machinery that is unaccountable, under-informed, and all-powerful. It lacks creativity. It automatically stifles innovation (witness the colossal idiocy underlying its shutdown of Uber in the capital).

There is no alternative but to shut these people down. Root-and-branch reform, beginning with an end to the imperial-era privileges of the Indian Administrative Service.

The IAS distrusts outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us can discern.

The prime minister, sadly, agrees with that.

He, too, seems to imagine that his transformative promises can be operationalised and implemented by the same people who have failed us for 70 years.

His first action on entering 7, Race Course Road, was to tell the secretaries to the Union that they could speak to him directly, cutting out their ministers.

Subsequently he took over all appointments. This is in a way natural; when Modi was appointed chief minister of Gujarat, he had no experience of -- or history of interest in -- policy.

Guess who he turned to? Perhaps that's why the bureaucrats other Indians see as obstructive, backward-looking monuments to institutional arrogance are seen by our prime minister as gentle tutors in the art of governance.

This is a pity, since the only way he will actually transform India is by first transforming its hopelessly out-of-date government.

Actually, if Prime Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he has raised, it will be entirely his fault. He should have started by ending the IAS.

__._,_.___

---

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http://raviforjustice.blogspot.com

 

You may also like to visit:

'Judiciary Watch' at www.vigilonline.com 

http://www.judicialreforms.org/

http://www.roguepolice.com

http://milapchoraria.tripod.com

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Veteran Major P M Ravindran

http://raviforjustice.blogspot.com

 

You may also like to visit:

'Judiciary Watch' at www.vigilonline.com 

http://www.judicialreforms.org/

http://www.roguepolice.com

http://milapchoraria.tripod.com

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