Saturday, February 4, 2012

Re: [HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

Dear all,
 
You are great sarabjit and correct.
 
To varify the Ministry could have got all the Hospital records and Confirm. There was no need to go for any Legal advise. the factual data would have been sufficient to come to a conclusion.The ministry based on the facts could have given the decision to the chief/IH of MOD(Army) to coerrect the DOB, that is what the Chief wants.Fixing the date of retirement is a separate issue.
There seems to be some motive for not accepting the DOB as 1951, there seems to be urgency to retire him. Govt should be bold to accept the correct DOB, restore the chiefs respect and integrity and may still direct him to retire this year as a cabinet decision.
 
If I am not wrong the PPO for pension is issued by AG's Branch. The DOB of cOAS is 1951 as per AG's record.How are they going to issue the PPO since as per their record he is to retire next year. For one year either he gets Pay with out work or no pension . His commutation.Gratuaty etc will also will be due next year as per AG's record.
 
GOD save the govt from the mess????  
 
 
kashi Nath Saha
 
From: Abhimanyu <who.will.file.rti@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2012 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

Dear sarbajit ...
if this was such a simple issue then why Chief of army staff needed to
go up to supreme court of india ?????

On 2/5/12, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> The discussion thread about Gen Singh's DoB shows why no serious
> discussion takes place on this group and our shallow intellectual
> depth.
>
> Here is a TRUTH - discuss it !!!
>
> 1) India is a DYNASTIC (secret) society where MERIT is thrown out of
> the window in Government. The norm is to ensure that people who make
> it to top positions are toadies and pliable. The OCCASIONAL exceptions
> to this rule only prove the rule.
>
> 2) All the "lines of succession" in various institutions - Army,
> Supreme Court, 7 Race Course Road etc are worked out 30 years in
> advance. In the case of Gen Singh it was decided when he was born in
> the Military Hospital Pune on 10.05.1951 (because his father was in 14
> Rajput). The certificate of his DoB here can be obtained by anyone in
> RTI.  PS I was born in the Military Hospital (Delhi) - so this is one
> 100% authentic document for proof of DoB,
>
> Sarbajit
>


Re: [HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

It is very important to discuss. In my one case I am fighting one case for 17 years and more .
Starting with from 17 years back there was a total fraud in accounts, I consider it as Mini satyam.
Modus operandi was the same in this case comparing Satyam case.  . Mere accounting  book entry placed in accounts. There was a dividend declaration from this profit only.  No action by Registrar of Companies, Ministry of Company Affairs , Regional Director, Official Liquidator!!!!!! These bodies are prime body to look after the compliance of all provisions of the Companies Act, 1956!!!!!!!!!! When fruit are eaten by Fences what we can do !!!!!!  There was no profit at all. Prime record I did not have. I had just intellect only. On which I tried the case. In these 17 years I found one record of fraud in accounts apparent on file of other Hon. Court  directly.
          I tell from the start one year to till all these year 17 years, all my contentions were rejected without any service of notice to other party !!!!!!!!
            Starting from City Civil Court to High Court !!!!!!!!!!!
You can imagine gammuts behind this. Where is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Contravention of Basic Human Rights in all the forums!!!!
Shah D J
----- Original Message -----
From: Abhimanyu <who.will.file.rti@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2012 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

Dear sarbajit ...
if this was such a simple issue then why Chief of army staff needed to
go up to supreme court of india ?????

On 2/5/12, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> The discussion thread about Gen Singh's DoB shows why no serious
> discussion takes place on this group and our shallow intellectual
> depth.
>
> Here is a TRUTH - discuss it !!!
>
> 1) India is a DYNASTIC (secret) society where MERIT is thrown out of
> the window in Government. The norm is to ensure that people who make
> it to top positions are toadies and pliable. The OCCASIONAL exceptions
> to this rule only prove the rule.
>
> 2) All the "lines of succession" in various institutions - Army,
> Supreme Court, 7 Race Course Road etc are worked out 30 years in
> advance. In the case of Gen Singh it was decided when he was born in
> the Military Hospital Pune on 10.05.1951 (because his father was in 14
> Rajput). The certificate of his DoB here can be obtained by anyone in
> RTI.  PS I was born in the Military Hospital (Delhi) - so this is one
> 100% authentic document for proof of DoB,
>
> Sarbajit
>

Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

To be frank and honest - Gen VK SINGH has elated and brought back the prestige and honour to the forces.

We are all very proud of him that he is fighting the forces which is like David and the Goliath!

May he get success in his en-devour - even bigger ones which he has in mind - surely!

rgds
rahul


From: Hirak Nag <hiraknag@yahoo.co.in>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

I support General VK Singh's stand to save the Indian Armed Forces, the only section of the Indian Government which does and upholds the moto 'Satyamaev e Jayate'-----Cdr. HK Nag. Retd.

From: john philipose <gigijohn8263@googlemail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com; sriram1iyer@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Dear Sriramji, that was a very unkind statement, bereft of facts! This is purely a fight between the corrupt bureaucrats(IAS) and one Army person who has had the courage to stand by his convictions. By the way, he is NOT asking to stay on for one more year! He is merely correcting a wrong that happened inadvertently, when he joined service. He has been trying to do it for the last 30 years!

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM, sriram iyer <sriram1iyer@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Friends,,
 
Why now he is getting checked this date of birth , he likes to stay more in the office is it not - pl do not canvass for this person , he has brought down the Indian Army - he is not fighting for interest of the nation but for the SELF - i request you not to misguide the pepul.
 
There are many unconfirmed cases against many self interested persons.  
 
Regards
Sriram
Ex- Servicemen
Mobile - 98499 87946
 


--- On Thu, 2/2/12, Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, 2 February, 2012, 2:20 PM

Quite some time back I had brought out that it is a very deep rooted and sinister campaign to ease out Gen VK Singh who is perhaps the first COAS to have taken very concerted and sustained measures to cleanse the army of  the menace of proliferating corruption particularly against those involved in mega scams and gross misdeamenours. No doubt these people who have the patronage and support of people in high places are moving heaven and earth to remove him from the scene before they all get roped in.

I can say with confidence that Gen kapoor and Lt Gen Avadesh Kumar are the mail culprits and guilty of deep rooted conspiracy in this shoddy cospiracy planned over a long period.This is no less than a coup d'tat happening in Pakistan; the difference being that it is intra service.

It is a great that an IAS officer has been able to see through the consiparacy and chosen to air his impartial views,even though I suspect the IAS officers in the MOD and the Govt  are also equally involved . Army officers are by and large  too meek and gullible to take a stand even if their chief is meted out injustice and humiliation of the worst kind.

We need to take a united stand to support this valiant and distinguished General in this hour of crisis facing the Indian army as a whole.


Col JP Sharma

So there is a need to  
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:



Today's article of mine will bring some clarity on the issue. All I would like to add is that this is not a mere clerical or bureaucratic error, but part of a larger and sinister agenda.
M.G.Devasahayam
______________________________________________________________________
THE STATESMAN
Special Article
O1 February  2012
President and the Army
Must Intervene And Save The Institution
By MG Devasahayam

THE President made a profound statement while addressing the nation on the eve of the 63rd Republic Day: "While bringing about reforms and improving institutions, we have to be cautious that while shaking the tree to remove the bad fruit, we do not bring down the tree itself." But, under her nose an institution called the Indian Army is being rudely shaken and being brought down by the very government she is presiding over. Despite being the Supreme Commander of India's armed forces she has not even lifted a small finger to stop that.

Republic Day is an occasion of joy and celebration because on that day in 1950, "We, the People of India, gave ourselves a Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democratic Republic anchored on Justice, social, economic and political; Liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; Equality of status and of opportunity and to promote among them all Fraternity assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation".

Sixty-two years have passed and every year we go through the ritual of celebrations and parades with the armed forces in general and Army in particular in the vanguard. It is the members of these forces who have defended and protected our democracy through their valour, sacrifice and total sense of patriotism, bereft of any political ambitions as in our neighbouring countries. It is largely because of them that India stands tall as a sovereign Republic.

Among the armed forces, the Army is the largest and the most visible face. The chief of that force has a special status in the nation's affairs, irrespective of his place in the order of precedence. The present government at the Centre has lost the faith of a vast majority of the people because of colossal failures almost on all fronts, except mortgaging the nation's assets and resources to MNCs. Now the Chief of the Army Staff himself has lost faith in this government and has knocked the doors of the Supreme Court seeking justice.

Instead of resolving the matter amicably by rendering substantial justice to the General, worthies of the kleptocratic state have the cheek to display indulgence. They claim that even if the apex court order goes against the Army chief,  the government will not summarily sack him. What morbid magnificence after treating General VK Singh in the shabbiest manner possible!
The controversy is supposed to have arisen due to different sets of records maintained on the General's Date of Birth (DoB) in the Adjutant General (AG) and Military Secretary (MS) branches of the Army headquarters. There are facts in the public domain suggesting availability of several records and documents in the AG Branch ~ school register, matriculation certificate, father's record of service in the Rajput Regiment, form No. IAFZ-2041 filled up in IMA ~ establishing the General's DoB as 10 May 1951.

The MS Branch is stated to have an application form for the written entrance exam to the National Defence Academy signed by a 14/15-year-old boy and some assorted papers mentioning Singh's DoB as 10 May 1950. The two branches have not reconciled the documents for over four decades.
The Attorney General and the MoD are sticking to the MS Branch records in determining the General's DoB as 10 May 1950 because it is this branch which is responsible for the promotion and posting of senior army officers. This is the spin that is going around.
 
But a confidential communication dated 01 Jul 2011 (A/4501/01/GEN/MS(1)) from Lt.-Gen. GM Nair, Military Secretary to Defence Secretary, tells a totally different tale. On four occasions:
-No: 2 Selection Board, Sept 1996 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Brigadier;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 25 Oct 2001 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 18/19 Sept 2003 ~ Special Review (Fresh) Case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen; and
-Special Selection Board, 30 Sept 2005 ~ Fresh case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Lt. Gen.
The date of birth of the General Officer (VK Singh) put up by the MS Branch and considered by the Selection Boards was 10 May 1951.

This means that the MS Branch had accepted, adopted and documented 10 May 1951 as the DoB for empanelling Gen. Singh for promotion and posting as Brigadier, Maj.-Gen. and Lt.-Gen. in 1996, 2001, 2003 and 2005 respectively. Where then was the dispute and the occasion for the former Amy Chiefs to talk to VK Singh in 2008 and 2009 and make him 'accept' 10 May 1950 as his DoB? On what grounds was the 'statutory complaint' of the Army Chief rejected, reportedly without the knowledge of the Prime Minister, forcing the General to go to the Supreme Court? The government owes an explanation to the people.

Looking at the state of the Republic one tends to lament and despair in the manner of Marcellus in Hamlet, having just seen the ghost of Hamlet's father, the late king of Denmark: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

Considering the way things are being handled even by an otherwise god-fearing man like AK Antony, there seem to be ghosts looming in New Delhi. One is the MNC lobby that is incensed with General Singh's principled opposition to the deployment of the Army to decimate the tribal population of Dandakaranya forests to hand it over to mining interests. The General had said: "We cannot do this on our own people. Naxalism is not a secessionist movement.''
Former Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat saw another, even mightier ghost, when he said: "Former Chief  Justice of India JS Verma has said Singh had brought in probity and honesty. He is being moved out just when large arms deals are going to be signed. This means that the arms lobby and a few people who are going to be affected are behind this."

To this could be added the 'victims' of the tough stand taken by General Singh on corruption, particularly former Generals involved in the Sukna land scam and Adarsh Housing Society scandal.

This is probably why a specious and non-existent theory of 'line of succession' was dug out and touted about for rejecting the army chief's statutory complaint. The 'line of succession' is a concept which is anti-democratic and related to royalty and monarchy. Why then is the Attorney General repeating this ad nauseam? Obviously in support of the MoD's sinister agenda.

VK Singh belongs to a family that boasts a martial tradition. He hails from Bapora village in Haryana's Bhiwani district, a district that I had the privilege of raising and building up as its first Commissioner when it was established in December 1972. This village, hardly a couple of miles from Bhiwani, had a large number of serving soldiers and ex-servicemen. Being an ex-soldier myself, I had closely interacted with the simple folk of this village.

Men of General Singh's ilk serve and die by the Army's standards of integrity and honesty. When men like him and the Army he commands are impaled, it is the people who bleed. Pray, does not the President, who swears by institutions, have a duty to effectively intervene and save this institution from further damage? The nation awaits an answer.

The writer is a retired IAS officer
 


 
 








Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

We are all focused on the Chief and his appeal of age?

In the forces we need to look at all directions of attack? Lets us for a change think of a bigger motive the Govt and the Politicians have behind it?

Question yourself on  - 

  1. What is the big deal if VKS serves as per year 51 as DOB?
  2. Why is Govt so keen on the so called "line of succession"?
  3. What is line of succession? Has this ever been listed before and followed to this extent?
  4. All Army Cdrs are eligible for the position of Chief so why Gen Bikram Singh is being pushed so vigorously?
  5. Is it that Gen VK has vowed that he would "improve the health of the forces" in terms of corruption? Govt has no time to wait till he retires if so in '13?
  6. Is it that he has pursued and taken to task the top level of offrs for their misdeeds which is affecting the flow in the pipe line of illegal source of .......
  7. Is it that the coming up few billion dollar contracts is worrying the Babu's?
  8. Is it that the Chief refuses to sign for continuation of the Tatra veh deal?
  9. Is there any truth in having Bikram singh at the helm because of his relationship with the PM?
  10. The crux is that what is so very important to take this issue to such a level? For the Govt and for the Chief?
rgds
rahul




From: Trivendra <trivendra54@yahoo.co.in>
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Sir,

I believe that this is the case of entering in army at an early date by disguising the facts. Believably among other things a  few question are un-discussed at any front

1. Why Army did not take cognizance/action at the time of submission of certificate.
2. How was seniority decided at the time giving promotions.
3. Why did other officers of his rank did not raise question while discrimination was going on with them
4. How was his seniority decided coming to top rank
5. Why army is awaking now.
6 Is there any precedent for handling a lower rank officer in defense or other services.

Regards
Trivendra

 

From: sn datt <captsndatt@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Dear Mr Iyer

This is a surprising comment from an ex serviceman. There is only one hand written NDA application form with the government. All official documents and certificates show 1951 as DOB. Will the government start accepting any DOB declared by a person against official documents?

When his matriculation certificate was sent to UPSC before his joining NDA, rectification should have been done. As ex servicemen we all know how busy we are kept under training and early years of service. There is no time to worry about personal things in detail.

It is important for the government to uphold the dignity of an honest officer and the country as a whole should support him.

SN Datt
Sqn Ldr Retd

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM, sriram iyer <sriram1iyer@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Friends,,
 
Why now he is getting checked this date of birth , he likes to stay more in the office is it not - pl do not canvass for this person , he has brought down the Indian Army - he is not fighting for interest of the nation but for the SELF - i request you not to misguide the pepul.
 
There are many unconfirmed cases against many self interested persons.  
 
Regards
Sriram
Ex- Servicemen
Mobile - 98499 87946
 


--- On Thu, 2/2/12, Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, 2 February, 2012, 2:20 PM

Quite some time back I had brought out that it is a very deep rooted and sinister campaign to ease out Gen VK Singh who is perhaps the first COAS to have taken very concerted and sustained measures to cleanse the army of  the menace of proliferating corruption particularly against those involved in mega scams and gross misdeamenours. No doubt these people who have the patronage and support of people in high places are moving heaven and earth to remove him from the scene before they all get roped in.

I can say with confidence that Gen kapoor and Lt Gen Avadesh Kumar are the mail culprits and guilty of deep rooted conspiracy in this shoddy cospiracy planned over a long period.This is no less than a coup d'tat happening in Pakistan; the difference being that it is intra service.

It is a great that an IAS officer has been able to see through the consiparacy and chosen to air his impartial views,even though I suspect the IAS officers in the MOD and the Govt  are also equally involved . Army officers are by and large  too meek and gullible to take a stand even if their chief is meted out injustice and humiliation of the worst kind.

We need to take a united stand to support this valiant and distinguished General in this hour of crisis facing the Indian army as a whole.


Col JP Sharma

So there is a need to  
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:



Today's article of mine will bring some clarity on the issue. All I would like to add is that this is not a mere clerical or bureaucratic error, but part of a larger and sinister agenda.
M.G.Devasahayam
______________________________________________________________________
THE STATESMAN
Special Article
O1 February  2012
President and the Army
Must Intervene And Save The Institution
By MG Devasahayam

THE President made a profound statement while addressing the nation on the eve of the 63rd Republic Day: "While bringing about reforms and improving institutions, we have to be cautious that while shaking the tree to remove the bad fruit, we do not bring down the tree itself." But, under her nose an institution called the Indian Army is being rudely shaken and being brought down by the very government she is presiding over. Despite being the Supreme Commander of India's armed forces she has not even lifted a small finger to stop that.

Republic Day is an occasion of joy and celebration because on that day in 1950, "We, the People of India, gave ourselves a Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democratic Republic anchored on Justice, social, economic and political; Liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; Equality of status and of opportunity and to promote among them all Fraternity assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation".

Sixty-two years have passed and every year we go through the ritual of celebrations and parades with the armed forces in general and Army in particular in the vanguard. It is the members of these forces who have defended and protected our democracy through their valour, sacrifice and total sense of patriotism, bereft of any political ambitions as in our neighbouring countries. It is largely because of them that India stands tall as a sovereign Republic.

Among the armed forces, the Army is the largest and the most visible face. The chief of that force has a special status in the nation's affairs, irrespective of his place in the order of precedence. The present government at the Centre has lost the faith of a vast majority of the people because of colossal failures almost on all fronts, except mortgaging the nation's assets and resources to MNCs. Now the Chief of the Army Staff himself has lost faith in this government and has knocked the doors of the Supreme Court seeking justice.

Instead of resolving the matter amicably by rendering substantial justice to the General, worthies of the kleptocratic state have the cheek to display indulgence. They claim that even if the apex court order goes against the Army chief,  the government will not summarily sack him. What morbid magnificence after treating General VK Singh in the shabbiest manner possible!
The controversy is supposed to have arisen due to different sets of records maintained on the General's Date of Birth (DoB) in the Adjutant General (AG) and Military Secretary (MS) branches of the Army headquarters. There are facts in the public domain suggesting availability of several records and documents in the AG Branch ~ school register, matriculation certificate, father's record of service in the Rajput Regiment, form No. IAFZ-2041 filled up in IMA ~ establishing the General's DoB as 10 May 1951.

The MS Branch is stated to have an application form for the written entrance exam to the National Defence Academy signed by a 14/15-year-old boy and some assorted papers mentioning Singh's DoB as 10 May 1950. The two branches have not reconciled the documents for over four decades.
The Attorney General and the MoD are sticking to the MS Branch records in determining the General's DoB as 10 May 1950 because it is this branch which is responsible for the promotion and posting of senior army officers. This is the spin that is going around.
 
But a confidential communication dated 01 Jul 2011 (A/4501/01/GEN/MS(1)) from Lt.-Gen. GM Nair, Military Secretary to Defence Secretary, tells a totally different tale. On four occasions:
-No: 2 Selection Board, Sept 1996 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Brigadier;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 25 Oct 2001 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 18/19 Sept 2003 ~ Special Review (Fresh) Case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen; and
-Special Selection Board, 30 Sept 2005 ~ Fresh case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Lt. Gen.
The date of birth of the General Officer (VK Singh) put up by the MS Branch and considered by the Selection Boards was 10 May 1951.

This means that the MS Branch had accepted, adopted and documented 10 May 1951 as the DoB for empanelling Gen. Singh for promotion and posting as Brigadier, Maj.-Gen. and Lt.-Gen. in 1996, 2001, 2003 and 2005 respectively. Where then was the dispute and the occasion for the former Amy Chiefs to talk to VK Singh in 2008 and 2009 and make him 'accept' 10 May 1950 as his DoB? On what grounds was the 'statutory complaint' of the Army Chief rejected, reportedly without the knowledge of the Prime Minister, forcing the General to go to the Supreme Court? The government owes an explanation to the people.

Looking at the state of the Republic one tends to lament and despair in the manner of Marcellus in Hamlet, having just seen the ghost of Hamlet's father, the late king of Denmark: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

Considering the way things are being handled even by an otherwise god-fearing man like AK Antony, there seem to be ghosts looming in New Delhi. One is the MNC lobby that is incensed with General Singh's principled opposition to the deployment of the Army to decimate the tribal population of Dandakaranya forests to hand it over to mining interests. The General had said: "We cannot do this on our own people. Naxalism is not a secessionist movement.''
Former Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat saw another, even mightier ghost, when he said: "Former Chief  Justice of India JS Verma has said Singh had brought in probity and honesty. He is being moved out just when large arms deals are going to be signed. This means that the arms lobby and a few people who are going to be affected are behind this."

To this could be added the 'victims' of the tough stand taken by General Singh on corruption, particularly former Generals involved in the Sukna land scam and Adarsh Housing Society scandal.

This is probably why a specious and non-existent theory of 'line of succession' was dug out and touted about for rejecting the army chief's statutory complaint. The 'line of succession' is a concept which is anti-democratic and related to royalty and monarchy. Why then is the Attorney General repeating this ad nauseam? Obviously in support of the MoD's sinister agenda.

VK Singh belongs to a family that boasts a martial tradition. He hails from Bapora village in Haryana's Bhiwani district, a district that I had the privilege of raising and building up as its first Commissioner when it was established in December 1972. This village, hardly a couple of miles from Bhiwani, had a large number of serving soldiers and ex-servicemen. Being an ex-soldier myself, I had closely interacted with the simple folk of this village.

Men of General Singh's ilk serve and die by the Army's standards of integrity and honesty. When men like him and the Army he commands are impaled, it is the people who bleed. Pray, does not the President, who swears by institutions, have a duty to effectively intervene and save this institution from further damage? The nation awaits an answer.

The writer is a retired IAS officer
 


 
 








Re: [HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

Dear sarbajit ...
if this was such a simple issue then why Chief of army staff needed to
go up to supreme court of india ?????

On 2/5/12, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> The discussion thread about Gen Singh's DoB shows why no serious
> discussion takes place on this group and our shallow intellectual
> depth.
>
> Here is a TRUTH - discuss it !!!
>
> 1) India is a DYNASTIC (secret) society where MERIT is thrown out of
> the window in Government. The norm is to ensure that people who make
> it to top positions are toadies and pliable. The OCCASIONAL exceptions
> to this rule only prove the rule.
>
> 2) All the "lines of succession" in various institutions - Army,
> Supreme Court, 7 Race Course Road etc are worked out 30 years in
> advance. In the case of Gen Singh it was decided when he was born in
> the Military Hospital Pune on 10.05.1951 (because his father was in 14
> Rajput). The certificate of his DoB here can be obtained by anyone in
> RTI. PS I was born in the Military Hospital (Delhi) - so this is one
> 100% authentic document for proof of DoB,
>
> Sarbajit
>

Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Enough is enough - He has gone to Supreme Court, so matter is subjudice - As rightly said where is RTI angle in this - Let us stop this topic - Come back to RTI matters 
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2012 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Dear Members

This discussion has gone completely "off teh rails" and needs
moderation intervention.

1 This is an RTI group. Where is the RTI angle so far ?
2. What is the locus standi of our members to discuss this topic ?

To put the discussion back on track.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=2165

We should discuss this in the light of the RTI which started this
business, and the views of this gentleman who says he is a senior
advocate in the Supreme Court.

Sarbajit.

<snip>
Army Chief birth date row: Who is right, who is wrong?
Bhim Singh
03 Feb 2012


An undesirable and unhealthy controversy relating to the date of birth
of four-star General Vijay Kumar Singh has flooded the media and upset
the public, thanks to the games played by the higher echelons of power
in the South and North Blocks. The Supreme Court had an opportunity to
address this issue of massive public interest, but failed to act in
accordance with the principles laid down in its judgments vis-à-vis
Public Interest Litigation.



A Division Bench headed by the Chief Justice of India was carried more
by its anger than logic while hearing a Public Interest Litigation
filed by Grenadiers Association, Rohtak, an NGO, and did not address a
national issue regarding the legitimacy of the decision of the
Ministry of Law & Justice which clearly held that record of service on
the date of birth of Army Chief General V.K. Singh shall be read as 10
May 1951. This record of service notification was issued by the
Adjutant General's Branch dated 25 Feb 2011, which was reversed by a
branch of the defence Ministry with mala-fide intention and ulterior
motives.



Former Chief Justice J.S. Verma while giving his opinion precisely
stated that the date of birth of General V.K. Singh has to be read as
is mentioned in his school leaving certificate (matriculation) which
is 10 May 1951. Interestingly, there has been no challenge to the
authenticity of his date of birth mentioned in his matriculation
certificate. The former Chief Justice had given his opinion on an
official request by the Adjutant General's Branch of Army
Headquarters. His 'considered' opinion was ignored by the Defence
Ministry and silenced by the judgment of the Supreme Court, which said
it shall not entertain any petition if it carries the opinion of a
retired Judge of the Supreme Court.



An angry Chief Justice, while presiding over three judge bench,
refused to even hear the mentioning of opinion of a former CJI. The
four former Chief Justices who had given their opinion on the
General's date of birth had stated categorically that Gen V.K. Singh's
DoB stands as 10 May 1951 as mentioned in his school certificate.



Justice Verma in his introductory remarks has observed that, "Any
controversy about the Army Chief's DOB is not in the interest of the
nation as also the morale of the Army."



He concluded that, "The other contextual observation is of greater
national significance. In the prevailing environment of a crusade
against corruption, supported by the Union Govt. with the Prime
Minister repeatedly promising 'Zero Tolerance' to corruption, any
injustice done to a high public functionary whose public image
according to media reports is of combating corruption, is bound to
erode the sincerity of this promise. Recent media reports give this
impression of Army Chief, General V.K. Singh, for not sparing even the
highest in the Armed Forces of their involvement in the Housing and
Land Scams. I am afraid edging out such an Army Chief before the end
of his legitimate tenure on this pretext may give the public
impression of silencing the voice of an 'inconvenient truth'. That
would be unfortunate and detrimental to the national interest. I do
hope this does not happen."



The other former Chief Justices, namely, Mr. Justice R.C. Lahoti, Mr.
Justice G.B. Pattnaik and Mr. Justice V.N. Khare, in their respective
legal opinions firmly stood on the ground that the matriculation
certificate has to be the foundation of proof of date of birth. The
important issue involved in the entire episode deserves the attention
of law-makers, jurists, and intellectuals in the country.



Can a Department of the Union Government, such as the Ministry of
Defence, change, modify or reverse the decision taken by another
Ministry of the Union? This very important issue shall answer
questions raised in hundreds of thousands of words scripted in leading
journals, newspapers by galaxies of noted writers and editors in their
continuous tirade to justify the wrong on the front pages of their
respective newspapers.



Just one look at the most relevant documents answers all questions on
the subject. The opinion of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of
Defence has been systematically ignored by the Ministry. The Legal
Advisor submitted a two-page report which was drafted for the reply of
an RTI application under section 6, with regard to the date of birth
of General V.K. Singh and other Lt. Generals. The Legal Advisor in his
findings submitted to the Ministry on 14 February2011 came to the
conclusion that:

-        Identity Card issued by IMA in June 1970 at the time of
Commissioning and thereafter records date of birth as 10 May 1951

-        As per 10th Class School Certificate, Rajasthan Board, date
of birth is 10 May 1951

-        All ACRs and course reports maintain date of birth as 10 May 1951

-        Medical Examination since first examination before entering
NDA and thereafter also lists date of birth as 10 May 1951

-        As per documents maintained by MP-5 and IMA, the date of
birth is recorded as 10 May 1951

-        The Legal Advisor in this report further verified that, "We
have examined the matter and perused the relevant records. We have
also perused decision of the Hon'ble Supreme Court in State of MP vs.
Mohan Lal Sharma (2002) 7 SCC 719 wherein it has been held that Date
of Birth recorded in Matriculation Certificate, held, carries a
greater evidential value than that contained in a certificate given by
the retired Head Master of the School or in the Horoscope."

-        The Legal Advisor concluded his report thus , "It is evident
that the officer was issued an Identity Card by Indian Ministry
Academy in 1970 at the time of his passing out, is having a DOB as
10.05.1951. Further, all the CRs, Course Reports and the documents
maintained by the Manpower Planning (Official Custodian of Officers
Record), the DOB is recorded as 10.05.1951. There is overwhelming
evidence on record to show that the DOB of the Officer is 10.05.1951
and the only entry against it is the form filled up at the time of
applying for NDA. Such an entry is to be treated as an aberration and
credence is to be accorded to the DOB recorded in High School
Certificate issued by the Rajasthan Board."



Those raising an alarm on the issue may have a look at the findings of
the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence and understand that they
were accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice after due consideration
and application of mind. The Adjutant General's Branch in their
official notification dated 25 Feb 2011, addressed to the Ministry of
Defence as signed by Maj. General S.C. Nair, ADG, MP, directed the
Ministry to perfect their record of service of General V.K. Singh with
a clear direction that, "Date of birth shall be recorded as 10 May
1951 as has been recorded in his High School Certificate (Rajasthan
Board), which is in conformity with all records maintained by the AG
Branch."



The controversy was compounded into travesty when the Ministry of
Defence issued an office memorandum on 21 July 2011 with ulterior
motive, least realizing the gravity of the entire situation, by
reversing the findings of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence
which were duly accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice, only to
outclass a visionary general.



An opinion was sponsored through the Attorney-General of India, a
Senior Law Assistant of the Union of India. He failed to impress
public opinion on the subject. He took an excuse to justify his
opinion that AG Branch had not provided full facts before the Legal
Advisor of the Ministry of Defence; this was contradicted by the Legal
Advisor who said he had consulted the entire record in detail before
formulating the legal advice to the Ministry.



Secondly, the Attorney-General concocted another excuse of 'wolf &
lamb' story, claiming that reference as mentioned above dated 14 Feb
2011 was not rooted through Administrative Ministry, which was
rebutted heavily in the legal advice itself.



The third excuse the Attorney-General found was that the Legal Advisor
of the Ministry of Defence had not sought approval of the Law
Secretary and the Law Minister! It is important to mention here that
the findings of the Legal Advisor were accepted by the Ministry of Law
& Justice (as stated above) and that fact was admitted in the
notification of 14 Feb 2011.



It is pertinent that the memorandum of 21 July 2011 was issued by the
Joint Secretary to the Govt. of India without any approval or
mentioning of approval by the Cabinet Secretary. In such a situation,
there was disagreement on the issue between the Ministry of Law &
Justice and the Ministry of Defence on 25 Feb 2011 on the issue of
date of birth.



The entire exercise to evolve a strategy through a memorandum was made
only to reduce the DOB of General V.K. Singh from 10 May 1951 to 10
May 1950. The concluding remarks in the memorandum of the Ministry of
Defence in which vested interests have tried to gain their point by
illegal, unconstitutional and mala fide means stand exposed.


It said, "The Central Government therefore declares Order No.
12918/RTI/MP-6(a) dated February 25, 2011 directing to amend the date
of birth of General V.K. Singh (IC-24173), COAS to read as May 10,
1951 instead of May 10, 1950 as recorded, as null and void and non
est. The officer's official date of birth will continue to be
maintained as May 10, 1950 (10th May Nineteen Hundred Fifty)."


Wherefrom was this authoritarian power to declare a notification of
the Ministry of Law & Justice as null and void drawn? Is it not a
dangerous precedent in the history of the world's largest democracy?
If four-star Generals can be treated this way, what will happen to the
fundamental rights of the wretched of the earth?



One must understand that the date of birth of General V.K. Singh as
mentioned in his matriculation certificate has not been challenged at
any stage or by any party whatsoever. Secondly, the Legal Advisor of
the Ministry of Defence has submitted the entire investigation report
which was duly approved by the Ministry of Law & Justice holding the
Date of Birth of General V.K. Singh as 10 May 1951, as stands recorded
in his matriculation certificate.



Thirdly, an opinion of a Senior Law Assistant in the Ministry of Law &
Justice i.e. Attorney-General, cannot change or reverse the legitimate
findings of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence which were
duly accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice and approved by the
Ministry of Defence.

The important question of law which has to be answered by the Supreme
Court of India when the writ petition filed by Gen V.K. Singh comes up
for hearing, will pertain to the decision by the Chief Justice of
India that the Supreme Court shall not entertain any opinion of
retired judges even if sought by a lawful agency.

Does that mean that an opinion of the Attorney General, a senior law
officer of the Department of Law, shall be binding on the Government
and the Courts? As mentioned in his considered opinion, former Chief
Justice J.S. Verma is perfectly right when he opined on validity of
the report of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence that,

"I have reached the conclusion that the above opinion dated 14.02.2011
reiterating that the correct DOB of General V.K. Singh is 10 May 1951
as per the authentic service records is sound and there is no occasion
now to change it to an earlier date."

Let everyone judge for himself/herself as to who is right and who is wrong.


The author is a Sr. Advocate, Supreme Court of India & Member,
National Integration Council. He represented the Grenadiers
Association in its PIL on the subject, which was dismissed by the
Supreme Court so as not to prejudice the petition of the Army Chief


[HumJanenge] The TRUTH !! (Can you face it ?)

The discussion thread about Gen Singh's DoB shows why no serious
discussion takes place on this group and our shallow intellectual
depth.

Here is a TRUTH - discuss it !!!

1) India is a DYNASTIC (secret) society where MERIT is thrown out of
the window in Government. The norm is to ensure that people who make
it to top positions are toadies and pliable. The OCCASIONAL exceptions
to this rule only prove the rule.

2) All the "lines of succession" in various institutions - Army,
Supreme Court, 7 Race Course Road etc are worked out 30 years in
advance. In the case of Gen Singh it was decided when he was born in
the Military Hospital Pune on 10.05.1951 (because his father was in 14
Rajput). The certificate of his DoB here can be obtained by anyone in
RTI. PS I was born in the Military Hospital (Delhi) - so this is one
100% authentic document for proof of DoB,

Sarbajit

Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

Dear Members

This discussion has gone completely "off teh rails" and needs
moderation intervention.

1 This is an RTI group. Where is the RTI angle so far ?
2. What is the locus standi of our members to discuss this topic ?

To put the discussion back on track.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=2165

We should discuss this in the light of the RTI which started this
business, and the views of this gentleman who says he is a senior
advocate in the Supreme Court.

Sarbajit.

<snip>
Army Chief birth date row: Who is right, who is wrong?
Bhim Singh
03 Feb 2012


An undesirable and unhealthy controversy relating to the date of birth
of four-star General Vijay Kumar Singh has flooded the media and upset
the public, thanks to the games played by the higher echelons of power
in the South and North Blocks. The Supreme Court had an opportunity to
address this issue of massive public interest, but failed to act in
accordance with the principles laid down in its judgments vis-à-vis
Public Interest Litigation.

A Division Bench headed by the Chief Justice of India was carried more
by its anger than logic while hearing a Public Interest Litigation
filed by Grenadiers Association, Rohtak, an NGO, and did not address a
national issue regarding the legitimacy of the decision of the
Ministry of Law & Justice which clearly held that record of service on
the date of birth of Army Chief General V.K. Singh shall be read as 10
May 1951. This record of service notification was issued by the
Adjutant General's Branch dated 25 Feb 2011, which was reversed by a
branch of the defence Ministry with mala-fide intention and ulterior
motives.

Former Chief Justice J.S. Verma while giving his opinion precisely
stated that the date of birth of General V.K. Singh has to be read as
is mentioned in his school leaving certificate (matriculation) which
is 10 May 1951. Interestingly, there has been no challenge to the
authenticity of his date of birth mentioned in his matriculation
certificate. The former Chief Justice had given his opinion on an
official request by the Adjutant General's Branch of Army
Headquarters. His 'considered' opinion was ignored by the Defence
Ministry and silenced by the judgment of the Supreme Court, which said
it shall not entertain any petition if it carries the opinion of a
retired Judge of the Supreme Court.

An angry Chief Justice, while presiding over three judge bench,
refused to even hear the mentioning of opinion of a former CJI. The
four former Chief Justices who had given their opinion on the
General's date of birth had stated categorically that Gen V.K. Singh's
DoB stands as 10 May 1951 as mentioned in his school certificate.

Justice Verma in his introductory remarks has observed that, "Any
controversy about the Army Chief's DOB is not in the interest of the
nation as also the morale of the Army."

He concluded that, "The other contextual observation is of greater
national significance. In the prevailing environment of a crusade
against corruption, supported by the Union Govt. with the Prime
Minister repeatedly promising 'Zero Tolerance' to corruption, any
injustice done to a high public functionary whose public image
according to media reports is of combating corruption, is bound to
erode the sincerity of this promise. Recent media reports give this
impression of Army Chief, General V.K. Singh, for not sparing even the
highest in the Armed Forces of their involvement in the Housing and
Land Scams. I am afraid edging out such an Army Chief before the end
of his legitimate tenure on this pretext may give the public
impression of silencing the voice of an 'inconvenient truth'. That
would be unfortunate and detrimental to the national interest. I do
hope this does not happen."

The other former Chief Justices, namely, Mr. Justice R.C. Lahoti, Mr.
Justice G.B. Pattnaik and Mr. Justice V.N. Khare, in their respective
legal opinions firmly stood on the ground that the matriculation
certificate has to be the foundation of proof of date of birth. The
important issue involved in the entire episode deserves the attention
of law-makers, jurists, and intellectuals in the country.

Can a Department of the Union Government, such as the Ministry of
Defence, change, modify or reverse the decision taken by another
Ministry of the Union? This very important issue shall answer
questions raised in hundreds of thousands of words scripted in leading
journals, newspapers by galaxies of noted writers and editors in their
continuous tirade to justify the wrong on the front pages of their
respective newspapers.

Just one look at the most relevant documents answers all questions on
the subject. The opinion of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of
Defence has been systematically ignored by the Ministry. The Legal
Advisor submitted a two-page report which was drafted for the reply of
an RTI application under section 6, with regard to the date of birth
of General V.K. Singh and other Lt. Generals. The Legal Advisor in his
findings submitted to the Ministry on 14 February2011 came to the
conclusion that:

- Identity Card issued by IMA in June 1970 at the time of
Commissioning and thereafter records date of birth as 10 May 1951

- As per 10th Class School Certificate, Rajasthan Board, date
of birth is 10 May 1951

- All ACRs and course reports maintain date of birth as 10 May 1951

- Medical Examination since first examination before entering
NDA and thereafter also lists date of birth as 10 May 1951

- As per documents maintained by MP-5 and IMA, the date of
birth is recorded as 10 May 1951

- The Legal Advisor in this report further verified that, "We
have examined the matter and perused the relevant records. We have
also perused decision of the Hon'ble Supreme Court in State of MP vs.
Mohan Lal Sharma (2002) 7 SCC 719 wherein it has been held that Date
of Birth recorded in Matriculation Certificate, held, carries a
greater evidential value than that contained in a certificate given by
the retired Head Master of the School or in the Horoscope."

- The Legal Advisor concluded his report thus , "It is evident
that the officer was issued an Identity Card by Indian Ministry
Academy in 1970 at the time of his passing out, is having a DOB as
10.05.1951. Further, all the CRs, Course Reports and the documents
maintained by the Manpower Planning (Official Custodian of Officers
Record), the DOB is recorded as 10.05.1951. There is overwhelming
evidence on record to show that the DOB of the Officer is 10.05.1951
and the only entry against it is the form filled up at the time of
applying for NDA. Such an entry is to be treated as an aberration and
credence is to be accorded to the DOB recorded in High School
Certificate issued by the Rajasthan Board."

Those raising an alarm on the issue may have a look at the findings of
the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence and understand that they
were accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice after due consideration
and application of mind. The Adjutant General's Branch in their
official notification dated 25 Feb 2011, addressed to the Ministry of
Defence as signed by Maj. General S.C. Nair, ADG, MP, directed the
Ministry to perfect their record of service of General V.K. Singh with
a clear direction that, "Date of birth shall be recorded as 10 May
1951 as has been recorded in his High School Certificate (Rajasthan
Board), which is in conformity with all records maintained by the AG
Branch."

The controversy was compounded into travesty when the Ministry of
Defence issued an office memorandum on 21 July 2011 with ulterior
motive, least realizing the gravity of the entire situation, by
reversing the findings of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence
which were duly accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice, only to
outclass a visionary general.

An opinion was sponsored through the Attorney-General of India, a
Senior Law Assistant of the Union of India. He failed to impress
public opinion on the subject. He took an excuse to justify his
opinion that AG Branch had not provided full facts before the Legal
Advisor of the Ministry of Defence; this was contradicted by the Legal
Advisor who said he had consulted the entire record in detail before
formulating the legal advice to the Ministry.

Secondly, the Attorney-General concocted another excuse of 'wolf &
lamb' story, claiming that reference as mentioned above dated 14 Feb
2011 was not rooted through Administrative Ministry, which was
rebutted heavily in the legal advice itself.

The third excuse the Attorney-General found was that the Legal Advisor
of the Ministry of Defence had not sought approval of the Law
Secretary and the Law Minister! It is important to mention here that
the findings of the Legal Advisor were accepted by the Ministry of Law
& Justice (as stated above) and that fact was admitted in the
notification of 14 Feb 2011.

It is pertinent that the memorandum of 21 July 2011 was issued by the
Joint Secretary to the Govt. of India without any approval or
mentioning of approval by the Cabinet Secretary. In such a situation,
there was disagreement on the issue between the Ministry of Law &
Justice and the Ministry of Defence on 25 Feb 2011 on the issue of
date of birth.

The entire exercise to evolve a strategy through a memorandum was made
only to reduce the DOB of General V.K. Singh from 10 May 1951 to 10
May 1950. The concluding remarks in the memorandum of the Ministry of
Defence in which vested interests have tried to gain their point by
illegal, unconstitutional and mala fide means stand exposed.


It said, "The Central Government therefore declares Order No.
12918/RTI/MP-6(a) dated February 25, 2011 directing to amend the date
of birth of General V.K. Singh (IC-24173), COAS to read as May 10,
1951 instead of May 10, 1950 as recorded, as null and void and non
est. The officer's official date of birth will continue to be
maintained as May 10, 1950 (10th May Nineteen Hundred Fifty)."


Wherefrom was this authoritarian power to declare a notification of
the Ministry of Law & Justice as null and void drawn? Is it not a
dangerous precedent in the history of the world's largest democracy?
If four-star Generals can be treated this way, what will happen to the
fundamental rights of the wretched of the earth?

One must understand that the date of birth of General V.K. Singh as
mentioned in his matriculation certificate has not been challenged at
any stage or by any party whatsoever. Secondly, the Legal Advisor of
the Ministry of Defence has submitted the entire investigation report
which was duly approved by the Ministry of Law & Justice holding the
Date of Birth of General V.K. Singh as 10 May 1951, as stands recorded
in his matriculation certificate.

Thirdly, an opinion of a Senior Law Assistant in the Ministry of Law &
Justice i.e. Attorney-General, cannot change or reverse the legitimate
findings of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence which were
duly accepted by the Ministry of Law & Justice and approved by the
Ministry of Defence.

The important question of law which has to be answered by the Supreme
Court of India when the writ petition filed by Gen V.K. Singh comes up
for hearing, will pertain to the decision by the Chief Justice of
India that the Supreme Court shall not entertain any opinion of
retired judges even if sought by a lawful agency.

Does that mean that an opinion of the Attorney General, a senior law
officer of the Department of Law, shall be binding on the Government
and the Courts? As mentioned in his considered opinion, former Chief
Justice J.S. Verma is perfectly right when he opined on validity of
the report of the Legal Advisor of the Ministry of Defence that,

"I have reached the conclusion that the above opinion dated 14.02.2011
reiterating that the correct DOB of General V.K. Singh is 10 May 1951
as per the authentic service records is sound and there is no occasion
now to change it to an earlier date."

Let everyone judge for himself/herself as to who is right and who is wrong.


The author is a Sr. Advocate, Supreme Court of India & Member,
National Integration Council. He represented the Grenadiers
Association in its PIL on the subject, which was dismissed by the
Supreme Court so as not to prejudice the petition of the Army Chief

Re: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING

TRAP group of RTI activist, Aligarh
supports this move and be glad to be a part of it.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Hari Goyal <haridgoyal@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mathur Sahib,

This proposed national level one organisation is the demand of the day. I shall be there with you and other national level RTI activists.

Hari Goyal
Indian Economic Service (1968 Batch) 
(M) 9312881883

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:28:33 +0530

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING
From: pooja.sikcchi@gmail.com
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com


count me too!

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:47 AM, vishweshwar raste <vmraste@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Sant Mathur,
 
Count me in too,
 
best !
 
sincerely,
 
vmraste
http://www.facebook.com/people/Vishweshwar-M-Raste/1587489294
 
http://twitter.com/VMRaste
 
http://in.linkedin.com/pub/vishweshwar-raste/12/42b/a94
 

Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:21:24 -0800
From: arun_agrawal@yahoo.com

Subject: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com; jpshah50@yahoo.co.in
CC: santmathur@gmail.com


Dear Mr Sant Mathur :

Your concerns are appreciated .

I liver in Noida - close to New Delhi and am willing to associate with
you in the manner you consider best . The present CIC, Mr S Mishra 
is also quite well known to me .

Regards 

Arun Agrawal 

PS: My brother in law, based in Chennai, has also met you once at
a Rotary function and spoke very highly about you .





--- On Wed, 25/1/12, Jitendra P. Shah <jpshah50@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: Jitendra P. Shah <jpshah50@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "santmathur@gmail.com" <santmathur@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 25 January, 2012, 17:21

You can count on me as promised in my email and I will also provide inputs. I think you are at Chennai and hence some active person from Delhi will have to be contacted.

I have many emails IDs of RTI activists all over India and properly worded mails can be sent to them for their cooperation.
 


-J. P. SHAH 9924106490  
http://www.jps50.blogspot.com/





  

From: Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2012 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING

The States are not filling in even a fraction of the sanctioned posts There's lack of transparency in selection.Criteria hasn't been formulated.Total ad-hocism has prevailed all these years.
Standard templates and other standardised systems haven't been developed(as done in top corporate world).
Techno-management principles are rarely,if at all,used in managing the show at all levels.
Most importantly,sou-motto disclosure of information,in standardised formats is simply missing, in spite of a lapse of 6 long years. 
The RTI community MUST now go the whole hog as a national campaign to redress the situation.
I'm prepared to take lead.
Lets see who all are there to join and contribute in meaningful manner !
spm
IPS DGP retd
BE MBA PhD
919841282324

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Jitendra P. Shah <jpshah50@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Another alternative is that RTI activists should collect fund and file  PIL in SC for appointment of additional ICs in CIC and SICs, so that cases are disposed off in say 90 days. In Nov 2010 Late Amit Jethwa [ murdered in July 2011] had filed such a PIL in Gujarat HC for pendency of 8000 appeal/complaints and in March 2011 two additional ICs were appointed at GIC, because of intervention of HC. Even 4 months back  a retired bank officer from Baroda aged 78 years and requiring dialysis weekly is contesting himself at Ahmedabad a PIL for appointment of 6 ICs at GIC.. Even if RTI activists contribute Rs.1000/- we can have corpus of Rs.100000/- assuming that at least 100 activists and beneficiaries of RTI all over India will donate Rs.1000 each. I am prepared to donate Rs.5000/- from my pocket and another Rs.5000/- I can get from many beneficiaries who have got substantial amount [few in lakhs] but for RTI. Some one in or near Delhi has to take initiative with cooperation of public spirited advocates.

Govtss do not understand any language other than that of HC or SC. Let us talk to it in that language.
Let us act rather than crying. 


-J. P. SHAH 9924106490  
http://www.jps50.blogspot.com/





  

From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2012 10:47 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING

CIC LOSING RELEVANCE AS 26K CASES PENDING
Backlog leading to 14 months' wait per plea CKLOG LEADING TO 14 MONTHS' WAIT PER PLEA
 
NEW DELHI: With an addition of nearly 2,500 complaints every month, the Central Information Commission (CIC), which has an astounding 26,049 pending cases is well on its way to becoming redundant. The reason: the CIC disposed off 22,414 cases last year, which means that there is a pendency of 14 months for every appeal and complaint making the information received by the applicant outdated and often useless.

Commission chief Satyananda Mishra expressed concern saying, "If the pendency continues increasing, the waiting period will also increase. We are very concerned and will have to think of radical ways to tackle the problem. One of the issues that we will discuss is `summary disposal' of cases through just speaking orders to save time."

The CIC has six information commissioners, including its chief, though it has a sanctioned strength of 10. One of the first tasks undertaken by Mishra on taking over was to write to the government asking for more commissioners keeping in view the large number of cases coming to the CIC. However, there has been little progress in ramping up the strength so far.

RTI activists are concerned and have been vocal in their disapproval of the long waiting time. One prominent RTI activist, who did not wish to be named, said, "The hearing for a case where I had sought information took place three months ago and in fact only the formal order had to be issued since I was given the impression that the decision had been taken. However, I have still not heard from the office of the information commissioner.

Prof Rajeev Kumar, formerly with IIT-Kharagpur, said that he had sought information on IIT-Madras in 2010 and only managed to get hearing in September, 2011. "I received the order after three months in December, 2011 and even then the institute gave me only part of the information. It was of no use. Despite the long delay the no penalty was charged. CIC has become infructuous," Kumar said.

Sources said that some cases as old as 2006 were still pending before the Commission with no action being taken.








--
Thanks & Warm Regards

Pooja Sikcchi
(M) - 9011087906

Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support

what is intriguing is that a few yrs bck gen vk singh was asked to write that he accepts a certain dt as his birth date and this is going to be the corner stone of govts evidence. since when has a govt given this right to an individual, to determine their own age.
 a matriculation certificate shd fit the bill.
it is obvious that there is more to this than meets the eye.
regards.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 10:57 AM, aravind kumaran <pakumaran@gmail.com> wrote:
Though Mr Sriram is an ex-serviceman, i am sure he is not aware  of the case, when he says that the General is checking his date of birth now.  Please get the facts right. The case has been going on for many years. All through, the General has been maintaining his date of Birth as 10 May 1951.  Only one record in AG's Branch , that is, the application for NDA, which the General wrote when he was a boy of 14 / 15 years !!!!   . We are only looking at the facts, which clearly is in favour of the General. There are other sinister designs which are trying to bring disrepute to the General. When will we Indians understand this ?


Kumaran

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM, sriram iyer <sriram1iyer@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Friends,,
 
Why now he is getting checked this date of birth , he likes to stay more in the office is it not - pl do not canvass for this person , he has brought down the Indian Army - he is not fighting for interest of the nation but for the SELF - i request you not to misguide the pepul.
 
There are many unconfirmed cases against many self interested persons.  
 
Regards
Sriram
Ex- Servicemen
Mobile - 98499 87946
 


--- On Thu, 2/2/12, Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Janardan Sharma <contactjps@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Injustice to Army Chief-This man needs our support
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, 2 February, 2012, 2:20 PM

Quite some time back I had brought out that it is a very deep rooted and sinister campaign to ease out Gen VK Singh who is perhaps the first COAS to have taken very concerted and sustained measures to cleanse the army of  the menace of proliferating corruption particularly against those involved in mega scams and gross misdeamenours. No doubt these people who have the patronage and support of people in high places are moving heaven and earth to remove him from the scene before they all get roped in.

I can say with confidence that Gen kapoor and Lt Gen Avadesh Kumar are the mail culprits and guilty of deep rooted conspiracy in this shoddy cospiracy planned over a long period.This is no less than a coup d'tat happening in Pakistan; the difference being that it is intra service.

It is a great that an IAS officer has been able to see through the consiparacy and chosen to air his impartial views,even though I suspect the IAS officers in the MOD and the Govt  are also equally involved . Army officers are by and large  too meek and gullible to take a stand even if their chief is meted out injustice and humiliation of the worst kind.

We need to take a united stand to support this valiant and distinguished General in this hour of crisis facing the Indian army as a whole.


Col JP Sharma

So there is a need to  
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:



Today's article of mine will bring some clarity on the issue. All I would like to add is that this is not a mere clerical or bureaucratic error, but part of a larger and sinister agenda.
M.G.Devasahayam
______________________________________________________________________
THE STATESMAN

Special Article

O1 February  2012

President and the Army
Must Intervene And Save The Institution

By MG Devasahayam

THE President made a profound statement while addressing the nation on the eve of the 63rd Republic Day: "While bringing about reforms and improving institutions, we have to be cautious that while shaking the tree to remove the bad fruit, we do not bring down the tree itself." But, under her nose an institution called the Indian Army is being rudely shaken and being brought down by the very government she is presiding over. Despite being the Supreme Commander of India's armed forces she has not even lifted a small finger to stop that.

Republic Day is an occasion of joy and celebration because on that day in 1950, "We, the People of India, gave ourselves a Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democratic Republic anchored on Justice, social, economic and political; Liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; Equality of status and of opportunity and to promote among them all Fraternity assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation".

Sixty-two years have passed and every year we go through the ritual of celebrations and parades with the armed forces in general and Army in particular in the vanguard. It is the members of these forces who have defended and protected our democracy through their valour, sacrifice and total sense of patriotism, bereft of any political ambitions as in our neighbouring countries. It is largely because of them that India stands tall as a sovereign Republic.

Among the armed forces, the Army is the largest and the most visible face. The chief of that force has a special status in the nation's affairs, irrespective of his place in the order of precedence. The present government at the Centre has lost the faith of a vast majority of the people because of colossal failures almost on all fronts, except mortgaging the nation's assets and resources to MNCs. Now the Chief of the Army Staff himself has lost faith in this government and has knocked the doors of the Supreme Court seeking justice.

Instead of resolving the matter amicably by rendering substantial justice to the General, worthies of the kleptocratic state have the cheek to display indulgence. They claim that even if the apex court order goes against the Army chief,  the government will not summarily sack him. What morbid magnificence after treating General VK Singh in the shabbiest manner possible!
The controversy is supposed to have arisen due to different sets of records maintained on the General's Date of Birth (DoB) in the Adjutant General (AG) and Military Secretary (MS) branches of the Army headquarters. There are facts in the public domain suggesting availability of several records and documents in the AG Branch ~ school register, matriculation certificate, father's record of service in the Rajput Regiment, form No. IAFZ-2041 filled up in IMA ~ establishing the General's DoB as 10 May 1951.

The MS Branch is stated to have an application form for the written entrance exam to the National Defence Academy signed by a 14/15-year-old boy and some assorted papers mentioning Singh's DoB as 10 May 1950. The two branches have not reconciled the documents for over four decades.
The Attorney General and the MoD are sticking to the MS Branch records in determining the General's DoB as 10 May 1950 because it is this branch which is responsible for the promotion and posting of senior army officers. This is the spin that is going around.

 

But a confidential communication dated 01 Jul 2011 (A/4501/01/GEN/MS(1)) from Lt.-Gen. GM Nair, Military Secretary to Defence Secretary, tells a totally different tale. On four occasions:
-No: 2 Selection Board, Sept 1996 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Brigadier;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 25 Oct 2001 ~ Fresh case 1970 batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen;
-No: 1 Selection Board, 18/19 Sept 2003 ~ Special Review (Fresh) Case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Maj. Gen; and
-Special Selection Board, 30 Sept 2005 ~ Fresh case 1970 Batch for promotion to the acting rank of Lt. Gen.
The date of birth of the General Officer (VK Singh) put up by the MS Branch and considered by the Selection Boards was 10 May 1951.

This means that the MS Branch had accepted, adopted and documented 10 May 1951 as the DoB for empanelling Gen. Singh for promotion and posting as Brigadier, Maj.-Gen. and Lt.-Gen. in 1996, 2001, 2003 and 2005 respectively. Where then was the dispute and the occasion for the former Amy Chiefs to talk to VK Singh in 2008 and 2009 and make him 'accept' 10 May 1950 as his DoB? On what grounds was the 'statutory complaint' of the Army Chief rejected, reportedly without the knowledge of the Prime Minister, forcing the General to go to the Supreme Court? The government owes an explanation to the people.


Looking at the state of the Republic one tends to lament and despair in the manner of Marcellus in Hamlet, having just seen the ghost of Hamlet's father, the late king of Denmark: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."


Considering the way things are being handled even by an otherwise god-fearing man like AK Antony, there seem to be ghosts looming in New Delhi. One is the MNC lobby that is incensed with General Singh's principled opposition to the deployment of the Army to decimate the tribal population of Dandakaranya forests to hand it over to mining interests. The General had said: "We cannot do this on our own people. Naxalism is not a secessionist movement.''
Former Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat saw another, even mightier ghost, when he said: "Former Chief  Justice of India JS Verma has said Singh had brought in probity and honesty. He is being moved out just when large arms deals are going to be signed. This means that the arms lobby and a few people who are going to be affected are behind this."


To this could be added the 'victims' of the tough stand taken by General Singh on corruption, particularly former Generals involved in the Sukna land scam and Adarsh Housing Society scandal.


This is probably why a specious and non-existent theory of 'line of succession' was dug out and touted about for rejecting the army chief's statutory complaint. The 'line of succession' is a concept which is anti-democratic and related to royalty and monarchy. Why then is the Attorney General repeating this ad nauseam? Obviously in support of the MoD's sinister agenda.


VK Singh belongs to a family that boasts a martial tradition. He hails from Bapora village in Haryana's Bhiwani district, a district that I had the privilege of raising and building up as its first Commissioner when it was established in December 1972. This village, hardly a couple of miles from Bhiwani, had a large number of serving soldiers and ex-servicemen. Being an ex-soldier myself, I had closely interacted with the simple folk of this village.


Men of General Singh's ilk serve and die by the Army's standards of integrity and honesty. When men like him and the Army he commands are impaled, it is the people who bleed. Pray, does not the President, who swears by institutions, have a duty to effectively intervene and save this institution from further damage? The nation awaits an answer.

The writer is a retired IAS officer

 


 
 






--
With Regards,
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)