Saturday, January 5, 2013

Re: [IAC#RG] caring for girls and women

Sir I agree 101%.
All commissions are toothless institutions,places where retd.Judges continue to get the salaries and perks.Infact they are white elephants.
NHRC,NCW all are the same.

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com> wrote:
Appointment of such commissions is an eye wash being followed as a standard operating procedure since independence  . It is mainly done to gain time in silencing the public voice and also to benefit monetarily these retired officials who have been favouring   the Netas when they were in power .
The real problem lies in our governing system . No one  blames the pillars  of governance - the politicians , the  bureaucrats and the judiciary . They either  play blame game or start giving sermons   when such incidents take place .
It is pity that they  have been given all the powers but no responsibility and accountability . Otherwise  both  Delhi Police Commissioner and Transport Commissioner  should have been suspended on the spot  for dereliction of  their duties.They have been the real culprits.Where as  Netas try to cover up their lapses with excuses to ensure that  they  retain their posts to toe their lines .
 The day they start doing what they are paid to do,  such incidents will get reduced. .


Brig J S Ahuja
Sujata Madhok
Thank you Mr. Purohit for your lucid suggestions. Thank you especially for yo...
9:38 PM (10 hours ago)

Rajaram Bojji
The innocent looking practice of hiding govt file with proceedings while orde...
8:45 PM (10 hours ago)

Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
7:33 AM (6 minutes ago)

to indiaresists
Munni and Sheela are part of the society. The entire protest has been  against the poor governance and corrupt law & order enforcement agencies. Currently they, having all the powers with zero accountability, are operating to feed Netas to remain in power .
Had the governing system suspended the Commissioner Delhi Police , the entire scene in the country would have changed? Today we would not have rapists as MLAs and MPs as our elected representatives. Their kith and kin have been another lot who are responsible for all such acts without getting caught.
We need to bring responsibility and accountability at all levels in the governing system . And above all changes in judicial system for speedy actions . This can only create fear in criminals that they can not  get away , irrespective of their  position in the entire governing system.






On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Major Tomar

1) How will making prostitution legal give "poor" girls security in life ?

2) Does the sections of IMTP Act say anything about the prostitutes ? All I could decipher were sections about brothel keepers and landlords.

3) Actually the people who are calling to make prostitution legal are fronts for the mafia who have opened all these hi fi guest houses all oevr Delhi in name of CWG-2010 and mixed land use, and now are using them as brothels. making prostitution legal will simply enable professional girls from all over the worlds to come and ply their trade here openly. So to the extent that it very slightly reduces the hafta to police, shady lawyers and MCD, the IAC shall publicly support legalisation of prostitution without getting into the moral issues. It has hardly anything to do with "poor" girls which is only sleight of hand to distract the "aam aadmi"

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, sangeeta tomar <tomarsangeeta27@gmail.com> wrote:

THE IMMORAL TRAFFIC (PREVENTION) ACT, 1956

Definitions.—In this Act.

(a) "brothel" includes any house, room, conveyance or place, or any portion of any house, room, conveyance or place, which is used for purposes of sexual exploitation or abuse for the gain of another person or for the mutual gain of two or more prostitute.

 

(j) "Trafficking police officer" means a police officer appointed by the Central Government under subsection (4) of Section 13.

 

3. Punishment for keeping a brothel or allowing premises to be used as a brothel.— (1) Any person who keeps or manages, or acts or assists in the keeping or management of, a brothel shall be punishable on first conviction with rigorous imprisonment for a term of not less than two years and which may extend to three years and also with fine which may extend to ten thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than three years and which may extend to seven years and shall also be liable to fine which may extend to two lakh rupees

(2) a any person who,—

(a) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of any premises, uses, or knowingly allows any other person to use, such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, or

(b) being the owner, lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such owner, lessor or landlord, lets the same or any part thereof with the knowledge that the same or any part thereof is intended to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, shall be punishable on first conviction with imprisonment for a term which may extend to two years and with fine which fine which may extend to two thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to five years and also with fine.

 

WHY I SHARED THIS LAW POSITION WITH YOU ALL-----POINT I WISH TO MAKE

 

1.GB ROADS are places where women/young girls are tortured—CAN ANYONE DENY---NO

 

2. IS THERE NO LAW------NO---------Law is in place and clear --- any  knowingly allows any other person to use such premises as brothel –imprisonment two years

3. How many of the owners are accused, tried and punished under this section 2 of this Act till date.

4. Has Govt appointed trafficking police officer in these area-----if YES---- then what are they doing?

5. IF THE LAW IS IMPLIMENTED CAN AREAS LIKE GB ROAD EXIST---NO

6.ORGANISATIONS AS HUGE AS CRY COLLECT MONEY FROM PUBLIC FOR THESE GIRLS TO REHABILITATE THEM ------------WILL THAT MONEY BE REQUIRED IF THERE ARE NO SUCH AREAS.

7.DO WE NEED MONEY TO CLOSE THESE AREAS-------NO

 

THEN WHY DONT EVERYONE ASK GOVT (WHO EVER IS IN POWER) TO IMPLIMENT THIS LAW

 

OR

SCRAP THIS LAW AND MAKE PROSTITUTIONS LEGAL SO THAT THESE POOR GIRLS AT LEAST HAVE SOME SECURITY IN LIFE AND HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.

 

NOW YOU ALL KNOW THE LEGAL POSITION------------------ITS TIME FOR YOU AND NGO'S LIKE CRY TO START THINKING AND ACT --------------HOW?

 

1. FILE FIR AGAINST THESE OWNERS!

2. STOP FUNDING AND DONATING TO BIG NGO'S LIKE CRY FOR REHBILITATING THESE GIRLS BECAUSE THIS KEEPS THE MONEY IN CIRCULATION FOR WRONG PURPOSES.INFACT CRY NOG SEND YOUNG GIRLS DOOR TO DOOR TO COLLECT MONEY FOR THE NGO EXPOSING THESE GIRLS TO DANGER OF BEING RAPED.


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Re: [IAC#RG] Citizens to attach ID proof with RTI applications: HC

Please find the copy of judgment as attachment.

Ambrish

On 1/6/13, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mandar
>
> The RTI Act distinguishes between information "dissemination" (ie.
> proactively / suo-moto) to the entire world, and information "disclosure"
> (ie. on formal application to be provided to AN INDIAN CITIZEN - WITHIN
> INDIA on payment).
>
> In the 2nd case, the public authority can demand proof of the above 2
> criteria before disclosing the information.
>
> PS: I haven't read the PHC judgment as yet.
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Mandar Jog <mandarjog@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think we should be able to request this anonymously.
>>
>> RTI act Chapter II, 1(a) says that the public authority should have this
>> info computerized and easily accessible.
>>
>> Someone had to put in an RTI request because information that should have
>> been public was not public.
>> If the information was public in the first place, it could have been
>> accessed anonymously.
>>
>> I understand that we should protect the system from requests whose only
>> intent is to burden the system, but there are other ways to achieve that.
>>
>> Whether some information is public or not does not and should not depend
>> on who is asking for it.
>>
>> - Mandar
>>
>

Re: [IAC#RG] caring for girls and women

Dear Mr Sarbajit,
 
I do agree with what you have written ,but what I was thinking is like you close the rats holes then rats will have no place to breed.At these places ,though I haven't visited but heard from people small girls are forcibly kept and tortured.So if the owners of these places are booked then I am sure the crime against these children will reduce if not come to end.
I had expressed my thought but it you feel its not ok then you can make a suggestion.What is important is to save these minor girls.I feel for them as I am a mother too.I may not be too wise but I have right intentions.
 
But I am so happy you spared your time at least,some don't even do that.
 
Regards. 

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Major Tomar

1) How will making prostitution legal give "poor" girls security in life ?

2) Does the sections of IMTP Act say anything about the prostitutes ? All I could decipher were sections about brothel keepers and landlords.

3) Actually the people who are calling to make prostitution legal are fronts for the mafia who have opened all these hi fi guest houses all oevr Delhi in name of CWG-2010 and mixed land use, and now are using them as brothels. making prostitution legal will simply enable professional girls from all over the worlds to come and ply their trade here openly. So to the extent that it very slightly reduces the hafta to police, shady lawyers and MCD, the IAC shall publicly support legalisation of prostitution without getting into the moral issues. It has hardly anything to do with "poor" girls which is only sleight of hand to distract the "aam aadmi"

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, sangeeta tomar <tomarsangeeta27@gmail.com> wrote:

THE IMMORAL TRAFFIC (PREVENTION) ACT, 1956

Definitions.—In this Act.

(a) "brothel" includes any house, room, conveyance or place, or any portion of any house, room, conveyance or place, which is used for purposes of sexual exploitation or abuse for the gain of another person or for the mutual gain of two or more prostitute.

 

(j) "Trafficking police officer" means a police officer appointed by the Central Government under subsection (4) of Section 13.

 

3. Punishment for keeping a brothel or allowing premises to be used as a brothel.— (1) Any person who keeps or manages, or acts or assists in the keeping or management of, a brothel shall be punishable on first conviction with rigorous imprisonment for a term of not less than two years and which may extend to three years and also with fine which may extend to ten thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than three years and which may extend to seven years and shall also be liable to fine which may extend to two lakh rupees

(2) a any person who,—

(a) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of any premises, uses, or knowingly allows any other person to use, such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, or

(b) being the owner, lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such owner, lessor or landlord, lets the same or any part thereof with the knowledge that the same or any part thereof is intended to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, shall be punishable on first conviction with imprisonment for a term which may extend to two years and with fine which fine which may extend to two thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to five years and also with fine.

 

WHY I SHARED THIS LAW POSITION WITH YOU ALL-----POINT I WISH TO MAKE

 

1.GB ROADS are places where women/young girls are tortured—CAN ANYONE DENY---NO

 

2. IS THERE NO LAW------NO---------Law is in place and clear --- any  knowingly allows any other person to use such premises as brothel –imprisonment two years

3. How many of the owners are accused, tried and punished under this section 2 of this Act till date.

4. Has Govt appointed trafficking police officer in these area-----if YES---- then what are they doing?

5. IF THE LAW IS IMPLIMENTED CAN AREAS LIKE GB ROAD EXIST---NO

6.ORGANISATIONS AS HUGE AS CRY COLLECT MONEY FROM PUBLIC FOR THESE GIRLS TO REHABILITATE THEM ------------WILL THAT MONEY BE REQUIRED IF THERE ARE NO SUCH AREAS.

7.DO WE NEED MONEY TO CLOSE THESE AREAS-------NO

 

THEN WHY DONT EVERYONE ASK GOVT (WHO EVER IS IN POWER) TO IMPLIMENT THIS LAW

 

OR

SCRAP THIS LAW AND MAKE PROSTITUTIONS LEGAL SO THAT THESE POOR GIRLS AT LEAST HAVE SOME SECURITY IN LIFE AND HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.

 

NOW YOU ALL KNOW THE LEGAL POSITION------------------ITS TIME FOR YOU AND NGO'S LIKE CRY TO START THINKING AND ACT --------------HOW?

 

1. FILE FIR AGAINST THESE OWNERS!

2. STOP FUNDING AND DONATING TO BIG NGO'S LIKE CRY FOR REHBILITATING THESE GIRLS BECAUSE THIS KEEPS THE MONEY IN CIRCULATION FOR WRONG PURPOSES.INFACT CRY NOG SEND YOUNG GIRLS DOOR TO DOOR TO COLLECT MONEY FOR THE NGO EXPOSING THESE GIRLS TO DANGER OF BEING RAPED.


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Re: [IAC#RG] caring for girls and women

I personally feel that due credence and respect should be given to these women who sacrifice everything to act as a safety valve to the human lust and emotions. They should be licensed, given proper protection against exploitation, given free medical support, declared as a legal profession free of tax liabilities, their buildings be maintained at the cost of the exchequer and whatever other facility that the public feels must be given to them.
This is one of the means to reduce criminal exploitation and trafficking amongst humans.
My personal view point.

Col Kulbir Singh, Veteran



From: Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] caring for girls and women

Good point.
What happens after a few rounds of emails? Finally all go into oblivion?
Have a method of consolidating the stream of mail on a topic, closing discussion after say a week or  two, and print and send to Public Grievances Secy of Govt of India, is my suggestion.
Rajaram Bojji  FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007
On Jan 5, 2013 12:56 AM, "sangeeta tomar" <tomarsangeeta27@gmail.com> wrote:
THE IMMORAL TRAFFIC (PREVENTION) ACT, 1956
Definitions.—In this Act.
(a) "brothel" includes any house, room, conveyance or place, or any portion of any house, room, conveyance or place, which is used for purposes of sexual exploitation or abuse for the gain of another person or for the mutual gain of two or more prostitute.
 
(j) "Trafficking police officer" means a police officer appointed by the Central Government under subsection (4) of Section 13.
 
3. Punishment for keeping a brothel or allowing premises to be used as a brothel.— (1) Any person who keeps or manages, or acts or assists in the keeping or management of, a brothel shall be punishable on first conviction with rigorous imprisonment for a term of not less than two years and which may extend to three years and also with fine which may extend to ten thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than three years and which may extend to seven years and shall also be liable to fine which may extend to two lakh rupees
(2) a any person who,—
(a) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of any premises, uses, or knowingly allows any other person to use, such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, or
(b) being the owner, lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such owner, lessor or landlord, lets the same or any part thereof with the knowledge that the same or any part thereof is intended to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, shall be punishable on first conviction with imprisonment for a term which may extend to two years and with fine which fine which may extend to two thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to five years and also with fine.
 
WHY I SHARED THIS LAW POSITION WITH YOU ALL-----POINT I WISH TO MAKE
 
1.GB ROADS are places where women/young girls are tortured—CAN ANYONE DENY---NO
 
2. IS THERE NO LAW------NO---------Law is in place and clear --- any  knowingly allows any other person to use such premises as brothel –imprisonment two years
3. How many of the owners are accused, tried and punished under this section 2 of this Act till date.
4. Has Govt appointed trafficking police officer in these area-----if YES---- then what are they doing?
5. IF THE LAW IS IMPLIMENTED CAN AREAS LIKE GB ROAD EXIST---NO
6.ORGANISATIONS AS HUGE AS CRY COLLECT MONEY FROM PUBLIC FOR THESE GIRLS TO REHABILITATE THEM ------------WILL THAT MONEY BE REQUIRED IF THERE ARE NO SUCH AREAS.
7.DO WE NEED MONEY TO CLOSE THESE AREAS-------NO
 
THEN WHY DONT EVERYONE ASK GOVT (WHO EVER IS IN POWER) TO IMPLIMENT THIS LAW
 
OR
SCRAP THIS LAW AND MAKE PROSTITUTIONS LEGAL SO THAT THESE POOR GIRLS AT LEAST HAVE SOME SECURITY IN LIFE AND HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.
 
NOW YOU ALL KNOW THE LEGAL POSITION------------------ITS TIME FOR YOU AND NGO'S LIKE CRY TO START THINKING AND ACT --------------HOW?
 
1. FILE FIR AGAINST THESE OWNERS!
2. STOP FUNDING AND DONATING TO BIG NGO'S LIKE CRY FOR REHBILITATING THESE GIRLS BECAUSE THIS KEEPS THE MONEY IN CIRCULATION FOR WRONG PURPOSES.INFACT CRY NOG SEND YOUNG GIRLS DOOR TO DOOR TO COLLECT MONEY FOR THE NGO EXPOSING THESE GIRLS TO DANGER OF BEING RAPED.

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Re: [IAC#RG] Citizens to attach ID proof with RTI applications: HC

I support producing the id proof for the information solicited not covered covered u.s. 4 (suo-motu disclosure) of RTIA to do away with fake or non-serious RTI applications as the applicants have option refraining himself from the FAA or Commission's hearings.

By this, only genuine info seekers will come forward and will lighten the burden of PA, FAA and Commissions in the absence of applicants seeking long information some times to harass the PA / CPIOs. If v r serious to stop the misuse of the Act, this is desired and for a citizen, there will not b any problem to prove his/ her nationality.



From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Citizens to attach ID proof with RTI applications: HC

Mandar

The RTI Act distinguishes between information "dissemination" (ie. proactively / suo-moto) to the entire world, and information "disclosure" (ie. on formal application to be provided to AN INDIAN CITIZEN - WITHIN INDIA on payment).

In the 2nd case, the public authority can demand proof of the above 2 criteria before disclosing the information.

PS: I haven't read the PHC judgment as yet.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Mandar Jog <mandarjog@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should be able to request this anonymously.

RTI act Chapter II, 1(a) says that the public authority should have this info computerized and easily accessible.

Someone had to put in an RTI request because information that should have been public was not public.
If the information was public in the first place, it could have been accessed anonymously.

I understand that we should protect the system from requests whose only intent is to burden the system, but there are other ways to achieve that. 

Whether some information is public or not does not and should not depend on who is asking for it.

- Mandar


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Re: [HumJanenge] What Indian college women college students think on assault on women ?

Dear Venkatraman

These views are bang on target. TV discussions not withstanding.
The big question is Will our governance system especially the police system and their political masters support quick and just implementation of the Rule of law? It is for we, the people to decide how long we will allow the present rulers to get away with things.

Brig R S Chhikara



From: Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013 5:47 PM
Subject: [HumJanenge] What Indian college women college students think on assault on women ?

To
Hum Janenge



What Indian college women college students think on assault on women ?


20 women students from cross section of Chennai city colleges participated in a debate on Assault on Women on 5th January, 2013 at Chennai. The debate was organised by Nandini Voice for the Deprived, a Chennai based NGO. The views expressed by women students are given below.

1.       Dress code
Dress code is not an issue and it is evident from the fact that even minor girls are being abused. It has been seen that a number of women subjected to abuse are well dressed and lead conservative lives.
2.       Mindset of rapists
The rapists and those who assault women are often mentally imbalanced men due to bad upbringing, as well a sadistic mindset. Such people can be controlled only by punishing them severely and putting the fear of law in the mind and not by a process of counselling  
3.       Alcoholism
The recent increase in alcohol consumption amongst men all over India has significantly contributed to incidents of assault on women. Government has to take some steps to curb alcohol consumption in the country severely. Consumption of alcohol degrades the man and brings out the baser elements in him which affects the security of helpless women around
4.       Law
There are several bills in parliament such as to prevent harassment of women in workplace, which are pending for several years.
There has to be care in framing extreme laws such as hanging of rapists, since the system can be subverted to punish the innocent. Such extreme laws would give extreme power to those who may abuse the judicial process, as there are several examples of miscarriage of justice in which innocent get punished and discovered much later.
5.       Implementation of law
Even the implementation of existing laws is not done strictly, largely due to corruption in police administration as well as interference of the politicians and bureaucracy in the functions of law enforcing machinery.
Obviously, this indicates that there is lack of adequate governance and Prime Minister and Chief Ministers should be held responsible for this scenario.
Security of women cannot be enhanced by mere laws alone but it should be accompanied by quality governance.
6.       Teasing of women in public places
Teasing of women in public places disturb the mental peace of women but this issue is largely ignored by public and police as if it's a minor issue. However, this is the beginning point of harassment of women and teasing of women anywhere whether in bus stops or office premises should be put down with heavy hand. This can be done by the police but they often ignore this problem. Small crimes against women should not be ignored.
7.       Influence of cinema and television
There is a need for more strict censorship of the cinemas, television media and advertising  which often use the image and body of women in suggestive ways to attract viewership and in the process demeaning the image of women in the society.
The mindset of the average country men is not yet ready to receive such images without being influenced negatively. The guidelines for censor board appear to be discretionary and the appointment for members of censor board is often based on political considerations.
8.       Shame should be with the men and not with the momen
While womens abuse have been taking place, hardly 30% of the cases are reported and women generally put up with the problem  feeling helpless and fearing social humiliation. This gives confidence to the men who abuse the women. When such things happen, women should come out boldly and report the matter so that the men feel ashamed. The silence of the women is a chief source of strength for the abusing men.
9.       Categorise the crimes for juvenile offenders
If someone would be caught as a rapist, he has to be punished severely irrespective of his age. Certain crimes should not be given lenient punishment on the basis of age and rape and assault on women should fall in this category.
10.   Need for special campaign to spread awareness amongst women
A strong campaign, particularly in rural areas, should be carried out in a sustained manner amongst women folks about their rights, prevailing laws and regulations that would give confidence to them to protect their dignity and fight against those who assault women
11.   Insensitivity of politicians
The presence of those facing charges of rape and assault of women in legislatures and parliament is disturbing. The unsavoury comments of several politicians about women in recent times are disappointing. Those facing charges of rape against women should be debarred from contesting elections, if the cases would be admitted in court of law.

N.S.Venkataraman
Trustee
Nandini Voice for the Deprived
Email : nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com






Re: [IAC#RG] Citizens to attach ID proof with RTI applications: HC

Dear Mr. Sarbajit, 

Pl refer  to your mail below. Of course the ID proof will be mandatory in the case of access to information under 4-1b too if it is so for disclosure since the Right is given only to Indian Citizens. The act itself says so in its preamble, section-2(j)and section 3. It is a different matter though that the information available on the website can be accessed by anyone as of now. 

Please stop the practice of pronouncing laws. 

Sincerely 

Naveen Tewari 



Sent from my iPhone

On ०६-०१-२०१३, at १२:३५ पूर्वाह्न, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Mandar

The RTI Act distinguishes between information "dissemination" (ie. proactively / suo-moto) to the entire world, and information "disclosure" (ie. on formal application to be provided to AN INDIAN CITIZEN - WITHIN INDIA on payment).

In the 2nd case, the public authority can demand proof of the above 2 criteria before disclosing the information.

PS: I haven't read the PHC judgment as yet.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Mandar Jog <mandarjog@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should be able to request this anonymously.

RTI act Chapter II, 1(a) says that the public authority should have this info computerized and easily accessible.

Someone had to put in an RTI request because information that should have been public was not public.
If the information was public in the first place, it could have been accessed anonymously.

I understand that we should protect the system from requests whose only intent is to burden the system, but there are other ways to achieve that. 

Whether some information is public or not does not and should not depend on who is asking for it.

- Mandar

Re: [IAC#RG] Response to Committee's Public Notice on behalf of India Against Corruption, Jan Andolan.

Thanks Sir, the response is well written and covers all areas we can think of at present.

Jai Hind

Capt Sivankutty
ACPM-K
Cochin

Sent from my iPad

On 05-Jan-2013, at 12:09, "Veeresh Malik" <veereshmalik@gmail.com> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:44 AM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Response to Committee's Public Notice on behalf of India Against Corruption, Jan Andolan.

To:
Chief Justice (Retd) J.S.Verma and his co-members

With copy to:
The Secretary (Ministry of Home Affairs) for intimation of certain grievances concerning the constitution of this Hon'ble Committee

05-January-2012

Respected Sirs/Madam

Please find attached 2 PDF files containing/concerning the response/submissions of the "India Against Corruption" Jan Andolan to the public notice issued in various newspapers on 25.12.2012 or thereabouts.

The IAC would be obliged if an acknowledgment in receipt of its submissions is given to us in due course.

With best wishes

Yours faithfully
for the IAC Collective

Er. Sarbajit Roy
National Convenor
India Against Corruption, Jan Andolan
B-59 Defence Colony
New Delhi 110024

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Re: [IAC#RG] caring for girls and women

Rajaram ji has really given the right solution which I have been insisting for many years.There is therefore urgent need  to  get embedded  in the governing system -Transparency, Responsibility and Accountability
 
at all levels from Mantri to down below.. Judicial System too needs a total change . Currently it is being run by Advocates and Advocates only . Otherwise should it take years to decide simple cases where flouting of agreements between the two parties are involved . They may be  renting  accommodation  or a deal to sell /purchase property in a time bound period.These cases should not take more than one or two sittings .

Let Aam Admi Party take up fight- to- finish  these two issues to see positive results in the governing system.

Brig J S Ahuja




On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with Brig.  Ahuja. Since independence we are being fooled , by adopting the same colonial master's tactics.

Administration preserved the facility, where executive has higher privilege than a judge.  Executive can merrily misinterpret law ( rules and public policy) to suit own and master's requirement because , he acts in secrecy. His proceedings are secret. Only order delivered.

But a judge cannot secretly misinterpret law. He has to work in open and does not enjoy secrecy for his proceedings.

Justice hence is getting compromised by the imbalance. Police and machinery under executive perforce operate to master's convenience.

This facility is abused by corrupt to mismanage trillion rupee budget to serve private purpose, denying public service. Elections are funded by them as a business.

Their prime object is to sabotage public purpose. How can you expect any law or rule to serve public purpose?

The stakes being high media, intellectuals are all effectively manipulated, perception management take an over.

You may get stronger laws. Worth only a piece of paper.

It is only a matter of correcting the business rules of govt. of India, as issued by Cab.Sec with cabinet approval which needs to be tweaked. Purely an executive action. But executive never will do this. They are mortally scared of even if some one tries to suggest. What is that tweak?

All govt orders shall be published along with proceedings on file, duly scanned on web.

That is all. Looks too simple. You may think RTI helps. But no. Only after damage is done, at the discretion of executive, rationed sanitised bits supplied under RTI.  There also govt creates labyrinth of bureaucracy and already activists find another RTI over RTI working will be needed.

Even lives are taken if activist reaches too sensitive an information.

So to prevent bad orders, we must insist on complete proceedings along with order be made public.

Then what happens?

When any bad order hurting public interest is issued, press, aggrieved , activists have full access to proceedings to expose the culprit in government. Courts too will have full material to prevent the order from taking effect.

Just think. Then persons with corrupt background find govt power of no use to their primary purpose of mismanaging the huge govt funds and assets like spectrum or land.

So they will stop funding elections. Then honest will find easier to enter govt to primarily serve public.

The attitude of police and other law order agencies which have become dysfunctional now, will come back to implementing laws honestly under honest masters.

So do not blame police. They are mere villains of circumstance.

But I request IAC to join me and send the above analysis and demand for correction of Business rule of Govt of India , to make it mandatory to scan and web post complete file proceedings with orders in all matters involving public finance and assets.

Please publicise , circulate to educate all innocent activists.

Let intellectuals and service persons here combine and move Supreme Court with this material, that executive cannot have higher privilege than justices. Then justice is denied under the constitution to common man.

Pray act to save our nation.

Rajaram Bojji  FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Jan 5, 2013 12:47 PM, "Jagjit Ahuja" <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com> wrote:
Appointment of such commissions is an eye wash being followed as a standard operating procedure since independence  . It is mainly done to gain time in silencing the public voice and also to benefit monetarily these retired officials who have been favouring   the Netas when they were in power .
The real problem lies in our governing system . No one  blames the pillars  of governance - the politicians , the  bureaucrats and the judiciary . They either  play blame game or start giving sermons   when such incidents take place .
It is pity that they  have been given all the powers but no responsibility and accountability . Otherwise  both  Delhi Police Commissioner and Transport Commissioner  should have been suspended on the spot  for dereliction of  their duties.They have been the real culprits.Where as  Netas try to cover up their lapses with excuses to ensure that  they  retain their posts to toe their lines .
 The day they start doing what they are paid to do,  such incidents will get reduced. .


Brig J S Ahuja
Sujata Madhok
Thank you Mr. Purohit for your lucid suggestions. Thank you especially for yo...
9:38 PM (10 hours ago)

Rajaram Bojji
The innocent looking practice of hiding govt file with proceedings while orde...
8:45 PM (10 hours ago)

Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
7:33 AM (6 minutes ago)

to indiaresists
Munni and Sheela are part of the society. The entire protest has been  against the poor governance and corrupt law & order enforcement agencies. Currently they, having all the powers with zero accountability, are operating to feed Netas to remain in power .
Had the governing system suspended the Commissioner Delhi Police , the entire scene in the country would have changed? Today we would not have rapists as MLAs and MPs as our elected representatives. Their kith and kin have been another lot who are responsible for all such acts without getting caught.
We need to bring responsibility and accountability at all levels in the governing system . And above all changes in judicial system for speedy actions . This can only create fear in criminals that they can not  get away , irrespective of their  position in the entire governing system.






On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Major Tomar

1) How will making prostitution legal give "poor" girls security in life ?

2) Does the sections of IMTP Act say anything about the prostitutes ? All I could decipher were sections about brothel keepers and landlords.

3) Actually the people who are calling to make prostitution legal are fronts for the mafia who have opened all these hi fi guest houses all oevr Delhi in name of CWG-2010 and mixed land use, and now are using them as brothels. making prostitution legal will simply enable professional girls from all over the worlds to come and ply their trade here openly. So to the extent that it very slightly reduces the hafta to police, shady lawyers and MCD, the IAC shall publicly support legalisation of prostitution without getting into the moral issues. It has hardly anything to do with "poor" girls which is only sleight of hand to distract the "aam aadmi"

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, sangeeta tomar <tomarsangeeta27@gmail.com> wrote:

THE IMMORAL TRAFFIC (PREVENTION) ACT, 1956

Definitions.—In this Act.

(a) "brothel" includes any house, room, conveyance or place, or any portion of any house, room, conveyance or place, which is used for purposes of sexual exploitation or abuse for the gain of another person or for the mutual gain of two or more prostitute.

 

(j) "Trafficking police officer" means a police officer appointed by the Central Government under subsection (4) of Section 13.

 

3. Punishment for keeping a brothel or allowing premises to be used as a brothel.— (1) Any person who keeps or manages, or acts or assists in the keeping or management of, a brothel shall be punishable on first conviction with rigorous imprisonment for a term of not less than two years and which may extend to three years and also with fine which may extend to ten thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than three years and which may extend to seven years and shall also be liable to fine which may extend to two lakh rupees

(2) a any person who,—

(a) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of any premises, uses, or knowingly allows any other person to use, such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, or

(b) being the owner, lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such owner, lessor or landlord, lets the same or any part thereof with the knowledge that the same or any part thereof is intended to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel, shall be punishable on first conviction with imprisonment for a term which may extend to two years and with fine which fine which may extend to two thousand rupees and in the event of a second or subsequent conviction, with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to five years and also with fine.

 

WHY I SHARED THIS LAW POSITION WITH YOU ALL-----POINT I WISH TO MAKE

 

1.GB ROADS are places where women/young girls are tortured—CAN ANYONE DENY---NO

 

2. IS THERE NO LAW------NO---------Law is in place and clear --- any  knowingly allows any other person to use such premises as brothel –imprisonment two years

3. How many of the owners are accused, tried and punished under this section 2 of this Act till date.

4. Has Govt appointed trafficking police officer in these area-----if YES---- then what are they doing?

5. IF THE LAW IS IMPLIMENTED CAN AREAS LIKE GB ROAD EXIST---NO

6.ORGANISATIONS AS HUGE AS CRY COLLECT MONEY FROM PUBLIC FOR THESE GIRLS TO REHABILITATE THEM ------------WILL THAT MONEY BE REQUIRED IF THERE ARE NO SUCH AREAS.

7.DO WE NEED MONEY TO CLOSE THESE AREAS-------NO

 

THEN WHY DONT EVERYONE ASK GOVT (WHO EVER IS IN POWER) TO IMPLIMENT THIS LAW

 

OR

SCRAP THIS LAW AND MAKE PROSTITUTIONS LEGAL SO THAT THESE POOR GIRLS AT LEAST HAVE SOME SECURITY IN LIFE AND HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.

 

NOW YOU ALL KNOW THE LEGAL POSITION------------------ITS TIME FOR YOU AND NGO'S LIKE CRY TO START THINKING AND ACT --------------HOW?

 

1. FILE FIR AGAINST THESE OWNERS!

2. STOP FUNDING AND DONATING TO BIG NGO'S LIKE CRY FOR REHBILITATING THESE GIRLS BECAUSE THIS KEEPS THE MONEY IN CIRCULATION FOR WRONG PURPOSES.INFACT CRY NOG SEND YOUNG GIRLS DOOR TO DOOR TO COLLECT MONEY FOR THE NGO EXPOSING THESE GIRLS TO DANGER OF BEING RAPED.


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[IAC#RG] Don't our members have faith in the judicial system?


Doesn't our members have faith in the judicial system?
 
We already have Law against Rape, Gang Rape, Murder etc. We also have death penalty, for the "Rarest of Rare Case". As the case under discussion is a "Rarest of Rare Case", of a gang rape, then the court can give the punishment accordingly.
 
We already have laws for almost everything, under the sun, even for molestation, etc. So what is the need to amend a law? Let the existing law do its work and punish the guilty.
 
If someone doesn't have faith in our judicial system then it's a different question altogether. But then what is the fun in amending the existing law, where one doesn't have any faith in the system.
  
Regards

Re: [IAC#RG] Murder of a young girl in Delhi (was sexonwheels)

Hello Vidyut,
 
To me the broadcast highlights an important aspect in the light of protests galvanized by the gruesome cruelty of the accused, which I believe was directed more at the ineptness of the government machinery in preventing such acts, than the act itself.  The fact that there are hundreds of such cases languishing around in the country, without the benefit protests, shows that the public at large has accepted it as the lot of the Indian citizen, whose prime focus has become self-insulation. 
 
After the ordeal the helpless, devastated, severly beaten, 'only witness' and the nearly dead girl, lying naked at midnight in the cold dirt by the roadside, would have been hurt far far more by the apathetic public and the police.
 
One way or another the accused will pay for their crime - it does not matter whether they are killed, jailed, or castrated and set free.  What matters now and forever, is the in-human attitude of (at least some of) the public and the police, more than that of the government.
 
Best Regards,
 
Virender
 

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
I was wondering of the impact of broadcasting a show in which the "only witness" condemns the role of all except rapists in the fate of the victim - the day before the rapists go on trial for murder - the only charge to justify demand for death penalty as per our laws applicable in this case. What does it mean to the case if public apathy, police delays and hospital's lack of caring contributed to the infection that finally killed her? While it is undoubtedly true (along with her last minute Singapore trip), if we want rapists hanged, how useful is it to bring this up after chargesheet is filed and on the evening before trial begins?

Vidyut

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Virender Bhogal
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