Hum Janenge: 12/2/12

Saturday, December 8, 2012

Re: [IAC++] VOICE OF HRARMY

You need a more gender sensitive motto!

Joya Roy

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:10 AM, bs azad <bhagatsingh.hrarmy@gmail.com> wrote:

The message of the HR Army has been forgotten over time and needs to be renewed.

The Motto of the HRA

Justice to every man free of cost,
be he high or low, rich or poor.
Equal and real opportunity to every man,
be he high or low, rich or poor.

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
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Re: [IAC++] [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

BABUS ARE STEEL CAGE LEFT BEHIND BY COLONIAL MASTERS WHEN THEY TRANSFERRED POWER TO THEIR FAVORITR FANS.
INDIA HAS NOT GOT INDEPENDANCE. THE STEEL FRAME WILL KEEP DEFENCE VULNERABLE. THEY ARE JAICHANDS MEER JAFFERS.

On 09-Dec-2012 11:02 AM, "virendersingh saluja" <vssaluja1942@gmail.com> wrote:

dear all
Combination of army administrators,fighters and technocrates from corporate world who understand
human relations as well as technical aspects of warfares shall be a first step to take care of saviours of nation who are unceremoniously forgotten during peace time.

The audits conducted by babus and IAS cadres are most of times made to appear scandalous because of poor knowledge of technical aspects. Minor variations in purchase procedure, if the machines are working to full satisfaction of user, should not become a major issue of audit ,where only fools will doubt the integrity of armed forces.All these things are harming the nation and the day will come when our Atma and self esteem will disappear

and our deadly instinct of remaining slave and enjoy,( Thats why we were ruled by Britishers) will come to fore,


On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 4:55 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

DearAll,
A nation that neglects its soldiers surely will forefeit it's right and ability to exist as has been conclusively proved in the recent ,past, ancient history. Soldiers can and will share poverty of the nation but not stupidity of the MOD babus most of whom seem to be hell bent (in explicably) to be anti Defence services. On the other hand CPOs( ie central police orgs viz police community under central and state control ) are reasonably well looked after by babus of the same IAS etc in the MHA. The only explanation I can offer is that unlike police men who are clued up about the babus character The Defense services men be they serving or ESM are a simple lot and can be looted/ misused/ravaged at will by babus(some times aided and abetted by Judaea of armed forces).

Do please consider and ponder to further natural justice.
Regards.
LtCol Veteran TTKishore,Engineers,IA

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Satbir
Date: Monday, November 26, 2012
Subject: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES
To: iesm_group <iesm_group@googlegroups.com>

Dear Veterans,                                                                                              Dated: 27 Nov 2012

       Letter to all MPs regarding "Neglect of Armed Forces" dated 27 Nov 2012 is enclosed herewith for your information and wide circulation please.

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                          Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057                                                                      Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

……………………..

NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Dear Members of Parliament                                                                          Dated: 27 Nov 2012

1.     On 22 Nov 2012, Arvind Kejriwal of IAC highlighted the plight of NSG Commando Surender Singh who was boarded out due to being medically disabled because of injuries sustained on 26/11 during Terrorist Attack in Bombay.

2.   We wish to bring to the notice of our elected representative and through you all to the Nation's, the plight of lakhs of soldiers and their families and widows. All our missives to the President, PM, RM, and UPA Chairperson for the last five years have evoked no response whatsoever. Even Supreme Court Judgements are being flouted and ignored with impunity. The MoD, instead of looking after the affairs military, in just and fair manner, is putting all blocks to thwart the most legitimate demands of defence forces. Govt actions relating to veterans affairs indicate an institutional indifference and perhaps wilful design that is both alarming and demotivating. Consider the following:-

a.    The ridiculous situation wherein a Major General draws a pension lower than that of a Lieutenant Colonel- three ranks lower in the hierarchy.

b.   A Havildar drawing a pension less than that of a Sepoy, which is a much junior rank?

c.   A Lieutenant General drawing almost the same pension as a Colonel or a Brigadier, ranks that are junior.

d.   While all Central Govt employees have been given three Assured Career Progressions by the 6^th CPC, the same has been denied to the "Sepoy" who is compulsorily retired after 15 – 17 years of service and the Assured Career progressions to Defence personnel are authorized after 8, 16, 24 years of service. Is it not Gross injustice that a Sepoy is not granted the financial benefit of 3^rd Career Progression before retirement to enable him to get the pension accordingly?

e.    Non-inclusion of Defence Services in even benefits like Non Functional Upgrades (NFU), made applicable to all other Government services EXCEPT Defence Services.

f.      Widows of Defence personnel are invariably left out of accretions in Pensions announced for JCO/OR.

g.    An amazing 39 serious anomalies have arisen in the implementation of even the 6^th Central Pay Commission, causing grave injustice to the Defence Personnel in their status and thus inter-se equation with other Central Services, pay and pensions.

h.   Non implementation of the 'Rank Pay' awarded holistically by the Fourth Pay Commission, despite a recent court order.

i.     Periodically falsely claiming grants and benefits to Defence Veterans, without them being granted. For example, a recent announcement of an increase in the pensions of defnece forces is being claimed by the Govt to be a grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP), whereas, in actual fact, it is a partial eradication of deliberate mistake in implementation of 6^th CPC award.

j.      Contesting all judicial orders / rulings favoring Defence Veterans.

k.   Non-inclusion of Uniformed fraternity even in committees set up over matters directly affecting them.

3.   It seems the country does not respect the sacrifices made by a soldier who lays down his life for the country. There is no respect for those in uniform who would not think twice before making the supreme sacrifice. This is a very unfortunate state of affairs. The government is bluffing the country and the unsuspecting soldiers. The Ex servicemen across the country feel neglected, their legitimate demands ignored.

4. The political system has been depriving the serving defene personnel to vote at the place of posting which is their constitutional right as per the Peoples Representation Act. The system of postal ballot and proxy voting which were meant for personnel posted abroad, has been thrusted on the defence personnel within the country. Both these options have not worked thus denying the right to vote to soldiers. The defence locations within the country are part of a constituency, thus the defence personnel posted within in the country are to be registered as voters as ordinary residents of that constituency. During the last assembly election in Uttrakhand, over one lac soldiers could not cast their votes due to the faulty system of Postal Ballot. There are over 60 big cantonments and over 250 military stations in the country where defence personnel have the strength to influence the electoral process.

5.   We appeal to our members of parliament, to jointly take up the above issues with the Govt for their immediate redressal. Shortage of 14000 officers, upward trend in cases of indiscipline, over 115 defence personnel committing suicides every year for the past 10 years, inadequacies in our defence preparedness are adversely affecting the security of the Nation. Our country can ill afford to allow such situation to continue any further.

6. May we request you for your immediate indulgence? If need be, discuss and debate these issues through call attention motion or under any other parliamentary procedure. The time is running out.

Jai Hind!!

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                           Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057
Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

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AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
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Regards,

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Advisor - Technical
TISS School of Vocational Education
36,Technocrat Industrial Estate(TIE)

Balanagar
Hyderabad - 500037

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[IAC++] VOICE OF HRARMY

The message of the HR Army has been forgotten over time and needs to be renewed.

The Motto of the HRA

Justice to every man free of cost,
be he high or low, rich or poor.
Equal and real opportunity to every man,
be he high or low, rich or poor.

Re: [IAC++] [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

dear all

Combination of army administrators,fighters and technocrates from corporate world who understand

human relations as well as technical aspects of warfares shall be a first step to take care of saviours of nation who are unceremoniously forgotten during peace time.

The audits conducted by babus and IAS cadres are most of times made to appear scandalous because of poor knowledge of technical aspects. Minor variations in purchase procedure, if the machines are working to full satisfaction of user, should not become a major issue of audit ,where only fools will doubt the integrity of armed forces.All these things are harming the nation and the day will come when our Atma and self esteem will disappear

and our deadly instinct of remaining slave and enjoy,( Thats why we were ruled by Britishers) will come to fore,

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 4:55 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

DearAll,
A nation that neglects its soldiers surely will forefeit it's right and ability to exist as has been conclusively proved in the recent ,past, ancient history. Soldiers can and will share poverty of the nation but not stupidity of the MOD babus most of whom seem to be hell bent (in explicably) to be anti Defence services. On the other hand CPOs( ie central police orgs viz police community under central and state control ) are reasonably well looked after by babus of the same IAS etc in the MHA. The only explanation I can offer is that unlike police men who are clued up about the babus character The Defense services men be they serving or ESM are a simple lot and can be looted/ misused/ravaged at will by babus(some times aided and abetted by Judaea of armed forces).

Do please consider and ponder to further natural justice.
Regards.
LtCol Veteran TTKishore,Engineers,IA

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Satbir
Date: Monday, November 26, 2012
Subject: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES
To: iesm_group <iesm_group@googlegroups.com>

Dear Veterans,                                                                                              Dated: 27 Nov 2012

       Letter to all MPs regarding "Neglect of Armed Forces" dated 27 Nov 2012 is enclosed herewith for your information and wide circulation please.

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                          Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057                                                                      Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

……………………..

NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Dear Members of Parliament                                                                          Dated: 27 Nov 2012

1.     On 22 Nov 2012, Arvind Kejriwal of IAC highlighted the plight of NSG Commando Surender Singh who was boarded out due to being medically disabled because of injuries sustained on 26/11 during Terrorist Attack in Bombay.

2.   We wish to bring to the notice of our elected representative and through you all to the Nation's, the plight of lakhs of soldiers and their families and widows. All our missives to the President, PM, RM, and UPA Chairperson for the last five years have evoked no response whatsoever. Even Supreme Court Judgements are being flouted and ignored with impunity. The MoD, instead of looking after the affairs military, in just and fair manner, is putting all blocks to thwart the most legitimate demands of defence forces. Govt actions relating to veterans affairs indicate an institutional indifference and perhaps wilful design that is both alarming and demotivating. Consider the following:-

a.    The ridiculous situation wherein a Major General draws a pension lower than that of a Lieutenant Colonel- three ranks lower in the hierarchy.

b.   A Havildar drawing a pension less than that of a Sepoy, which is a much junior rank?

c.   A Lieutenant General drawing almost the same pension as a Colonel or a Brigadier, ranks that are junior.

d.   While all Central Govt employees have been given three Assured Career Progressions by the 6^th CPC, the same has been denied to the "Sepoy" who is compulsorily retired after 15 – 17 years of service and the Assured Career progressions to Defence personnel are authorized after 8, 16, 24 years of service. Is it not Gross injustice that a Sepoy is not granted the financial benefit of 3^rd Career Progression before retirement to enable him to get the pension accordingly?

e.    Non-inclusion of Defence Services in even benefits like Non Functional Upgrades (NFU), made applicable to all other Government services EXCEPT Defence Services.

f.      Widows of Defence personnel are invariably left out of accretions in Pensions announced for JCO/OR.

g.    An amazing 39 serious anomalies have arisen in the implementation of even the 6^th Central Pay Commission, causing grave injustice to the Defence Personnel in their status and thus inter-se equation with other Central Services, pay and pensions.

h.   Non implementation of the 'Rank Pay' awarded holistically by the Fourth Pay Commission, despite a recent court order.

i.     Periodically falsely claiming grants and benefits to Defence Veterans, without them being granted. For example, a recent announcement of an increase in the pensions of defnece forces is being claimed by the Govt to be a grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP), whereas, in actual fact, it is a partial eradication of deliberate mistake in implementation of 6^th CPC award.

j.      Contesting all judicial orders / rulings favoring Defence Veterans.

k.   Non-inclusion of Uniformed fraternity even in committees set up over matters directly affecting them.

3.   It seems the country does not respect the sacrifices made by a soldier who lays down his life for the country. There is no respect for those in uniform who would not think twice before making the supreme sacrifice. This is a very unfortunate state of affairs. The government is bluffing the country and the unsuspecting soldiers. The Ex servicemen across the country feel neglected, their legitimate demands ignored.

4. The political system has been depriving the serving defene personnel to vote at the place of posting which is their constitutional right as per the Peoples Representation Act. The system of postal ballot and proxy voting which were meant for personnel posted abroad, has been thrusted on the defence personnel within the country. Both these options have not worked thus denying the right to vote to soldiers. The defence locations within the country are part of a constituency, thus the defence personnel posted within in the country are to be registered as voters as ordinary residents of that constituency. During the last assembly election in Uttrakhand, over one lac soldiers could not cast their votes due to the faulty system of Postal Ballot. There are over 60 big cantonments and over 250 military stations in the country where defence personnel have the strength to influence the electoral process.

5.   We appeal to our members of parliament, to jointly take up the above issues with the Govt for their immediate redressal. Shortage of 14000 officers, upward trend in cases of indiscipline, over 115 defence personnel committing suicides every year for the past 10 years, inadequacies in our defence preparedness are adversely affecting the security of the Nation. Our country can ill afford to allow such situation to continue any further.

6. May we request you for your immediate indulgence? If need be, discuss and debate these issues through call attention motion or under any other parliamentary procedure. The time is running out.

Jai Hind!!

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                           Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057
Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

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--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
Cell-9912594602

--
Regards,

V.S.Saluja

Advisor - Technical

TISS School of Vocational Education

36,Technocrat Industrial Estate(TIE)

Balanagar

Hyderabad - 500037

[IAC++] biggest damage to the movement

Dear Aam Aadmis,

A lot of things are being written about Shri Anna Hazare, Arvind Kejriwal, some good, some not so good & huge differences are being aired.

What does this do?

It harms both the movements tremendously & the Aam Aadmi is getting confused, distressed & losing interest in the movement. & in future both the movements will lose the popular support of the Aam Aadmi..

This has been expressed by mostly all the people travelling by the Mumbai suburban railways - both Western & the Central.

Kishore Jagtiani.

Concept Creation

"Citizens Centres - Governance at Doorstep".

[IAC++] Remove politicians and ex-bureaucrats from sports committees

N.S.Venkataraman

Trustee,

Nandini Voice for the Deprived

M60/1, 4^th Cross Street,

Besant Nagar,

Chennai – 600090

India Against Corruption

Sir,

May I submit my following views.

Thanks

N.S.Venkataraman

Remove politicians and ex-bureaucrats from sports committees

It appears that in any management committee where politicians or ex-bureaucrats would be members, there would inevitably be nepotism, favouritism and corruption. At least, this is the impression that is widely prevalent in the country.

It is sad that even after the recent Commonwealth Games when thousands of crores of rupees were reported to have been misused or siphoned away, the Government of India has not cared to take any steps to discipline the sports bodies, order extensive and timebound enquiries and remove the corrupt elements. Now it has been given to the International Olympic Association, who have adopted their fair and ruthless policies to weed out the vested interests from the sports bodies in India by imposing a ban.

People in India certainly welcome such measures of International Olympic Association while feeling sad at the same time. The people only hope that the humiliation now suffered by the Indian Olympic Association would lead to improve the conditions and would ensure that politicians and ex-bureaucrats in charge of the affairs who have brought such shameful conditions would be removed forthwith. It is really shocking that they have been holding positions as Chairman and Committee members for several decades but have not been held accountable for the poor performance and allegations that are haunting these sports bodies.

With the government of India pumping several crores of rupees into the various sports bodies for promoting sports and encouraging the sportsmen, these sports bodies have become fertile ground for the politicians and ex-bureaucrats. What is even more disturbing is that even after the stinging observations made by the international Olympic association, the office bearers are still holding on to the positions and have not thought it necessary to quit the job. They are very thick skinned and shameless.

Those who suffer due to such sordid conditions in Indian sports bodies are the sportsmen and athletes, who have the talent and desire to compete and excel themselves in the international arena but they need to be given proper grooming, training, appropriate climate and support which are not forthcoming.

The ugly conditions in the sports bodies have been repeatedly revealed by several stories such as the coaches misbehaving with women athletes, selecting people in the team based on favouritism and bribes etc. Countrymen have been watching helplessly and with sadness, while the sports authorities have been behaving as if they are not accountable to anybody and neither the government nor anyone else can touch them.

It is high time that the Government of India interferes in the matter with sense of purpose and declares the minimum qualifications that are necessary at state and central level for anyone to become a sports administrator. The number of years that one can be a member of the sports body should also be restricted to a maximum of two terms and age limit should also be imposed on the committee members. It is also necessary that atleast 60% of the members of any management committee of any sports bodies should be sportsmen who have represented India in international tournaments at one time or the other.

N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice for the Deprived

nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com

Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi

IAC is a case is a case of misleading self with lot of spirit but no knowledge nor understanding democracy. The surprising fact is Aravind Kejriwal being able to get away with atypical Amercan style perception mamnegement show taking lacs on a ride. The way he dodges the acid test of his real intention is awesome. The corrupt come to government to favour unfairly and convert power to money. So become political leader capture power. The secrecy of proceedings on file while order is public gives rise to this opportunity. If file along with order is scanned and published, this opportunity is removed. British made this rule. It is not constitutional. But number of times requests are made to to Kejriwal to demand publicly to get executive order issued . To publish file with orders. Kejriwal refises to make this demand. Why is he anxious to protect this opportunity to make money for political leaders? Then he also wants to become political leader. The message is scary. He is using all of us. Now I cannot believe this young man. Feel sorry for youth of the country , who seem to love to be misled. www.rbojji.blogspot.com
----- Original message -----
> Aseem - you are right & expressed exact feelings most of us have got.
> Since we had chosen not to express them till the time it becomes
> noxious to efforts we are taking, time has come to forgive the sins he
> is making without realizing the repercussions of the same.
>
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:04 AM, <asim.human@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> > I am amazed to see how much many of us love Anna. Respecting elders is
> > our culture but when we deny others rights to analyse a person and
> > express their own opinion, its surly undemocratic. I support what
> > Sadhana Ji said. Mr Anna Hazare shall take rest now or he shall spend
> > some time to read books and get exact knowledge of how democracy
> > functions, what is ideology means etc. IAC made him a big personality
> > for no reasons. He is a very simple honest person like many.
> > Simplicity is the way of life for many persons in villages. We must
> > respect all such persons. But IAC has presented Anna in a very blown
> > up manner. If many in the group are of the habit of glorification of
> > person (Vyakti-pooja) then its ok for them to praise Anna. But at some
> > point of time we need to understand that he is not that great, let him
> > live his life at Ralegansiddhi, let him work on water preservation
> > plans. - Asim Sarode Pune Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vijoy Ambasta <vijoy.ambasta@gmail.com>
> > Sender: iac-request@lists.riseup.net
> > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 08:16:38
> > To: <iac@lists.riseup.net>
> > Reply-To: iac@lists.riseup.net
> > Subject: Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi
> >
> > WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
> > Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
> > Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
> > Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/
> >
> >
> > WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
> > Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
> > Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
> > Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/
> >

Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

all the dear members on this list, with due respect to all of you highly educated, learned and experienced people, my humble submissions are (1) if the hall mark of Democracy is majority decision then it simply means that each and very debate and bill must be voted to become Law by more than 272 in LS and similarly in RS and Not by the majority of the MPs. present in the house. (2) The votes must be recorded in each case by pressing of the electronic means provided, so that each citizen knows which way his/her representatives voted on the particular matter. (3) the issuing of party whip is against the very democracy. under this the MPs behave like a slave of a party and not as a representative of the people who elected him/her as MP/MLA to present their views in parliament. rgds. beniwal

From: Israel Jayakaran <israel@jayakaran.com>
To: Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com>; Sarabjit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Cc: iac@lists.riseup.net; Col (Retd) Satish C Dewan <coldewan@gmail.com>; parthasarathy ca <chetlurpartha@yahoo.com>; Shri P Deivamuthu <hinduvoicemumbai@gmail.com>; Ganesh Apte <apteganesh65@gmail.com>; Brig (Retd) A D Chaubal <adchaubal@hotmail.com>; L B Thapa <apasmalb@gmail.com>; Prof G. C. Asnani <gello.asnani@yahoo.com>; vasant banahatti <vasantbanahatti26@gmail.com>; Kumar Arun <kumar2786@hotmail.com>; Satish Oberoi <oberoi50@yahoo.com>; vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>; Srinivasan Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 8 December 2012 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Dear All,

Democacy is good but it could be misused so much so that the majoirty decision (A hall markof democracy) need not be always correct.It all depends on the quality and character of

the MPs/MLAs who vote. If we have a collection of selfish and money minded members, you can't get a decision in favour of the people. In such a scenario, any majority decision would be in the interest of the voting members. So, the caliber of the elected members matter a lot.If the voting members are inherently bad and self oriented, we will get only a bad majority decision which woud be in favour of the members and not in favour of the people who elected them. So, is the majority decsion always good?

In our present democratic set up, anyLallu, Panju could stand for elections regardless of his/her competence. All one needs to win an election is 'money'. Presently, only a multi millionnaire could thinkof fighting the elections. What kind of democracy is this?

I still recall that in 1940's and early 50's, the elected members were very simple and moved with the people freely, asking them about their problems and they went all out to solve their problems. Not any more. Once elected, an MP becomes special human being; he is inaccessible; he wouldn't like to talk with you. (Perhaps, you can if you offer him a few thousands). He is in the seat of power for himself and not for you and me.

My hard thinking brought one point clear to my mind. '' The high cost of our elections is the villain of all troubles.; a person spends tons of money to get elected and once elelcted,he gathers more money for the next elections." In sch a scenario, do you expect an ordinary pensioner to stand for elections, but mind you he is absolutely a top class man on administration and a born leader. But all these are useless in the election context.

The next villain is the party type of democracy. What kinds of candidates the party heads put up for elections? His winning ability; all other qualities get pushed to the backgound. Do you expect any kind of quality and competence from such elected goons?

Dont you wish that we had a system whereof only the most competent people stand for elections; those who have some achievemns to their credit and are in a position to give and they don't have to spend a paise on elections? Even such persons will have to be requested to stand for election by selec ion committee.

Almost a dream, you would sy. And yet it is possible to have such a system within the present democratic framework. And yet, all the riff raffs would stand barred from the hustings. It is possible, friend. All we have to do is to work on its introduction . Please read my article at the attachment, which spells out such a system and is titled: A party less democratic set up for India .

I would welcome your comments on the article.

Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), signasls, veteran, Chennai

----- Original Message -----

From: Mukund Apte

To: Sarabjit Roy ; Col (Retd) Israel Jayakaran

Cc: iac@lists.riseup.net ; Col (Retd) Satish C Dewan ; parthasarathy ca ; Shri P Deivamuthu ; Ganesh Apte ; Brig (Retd) A D Chaubal ; L B Thapa ; Prof G. C. Asnani ; vasant banahatti ; Kumar Arun ; Satish Oberoi ; vasant sardesai ; Srinivasan Kalyanaraman

Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 7:30 PM

Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India.

Dear Sir,
According to me the main culprit for our current pitiable condition is Democracy. Please note that Democracy generates (imposed) Competition amongst people. The Competition being for Power, it is very intense and therefore creates conflicts in minds. This create chasm between various groups of people. The situation in other (Democratically functioning) countries is not much different. (People are neither happy nor contented). Then the game of bribing the voters does not take long to commence. This really initiated corruption in high places that we want to finish. So really we must change the system of our State functioning.

What Mr Sarabjitsaheb says is true. In the Democracy good and upright people may not like to contest since they are not that popular and in election, popularity of the candidates is under test and nothing else, isn't it?

I am attaching my write up on Democracy. You may understand my point of view little better when you go through it. I am attaching it. Kindly let us have comments in order to develop it still further for our use.

With regards to all,

------Mukund Apte

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Col Jayakaran

We really appreciate the trouble you are taking in the prime of your life to think of saving the nation.

My own model however, gives me a quite different output.

1) My model says that honest, intelligent people do not get elected to public office. If a new party puts up 542 such candidates, they would be lucky to win even 10 seats.

2) My model says that the more corrupt the party which is elected the better the improvements in life for the average middle-class urban citizen.

3) I dont think that voters are as fed up with the BJP AND the Congress as you make out. I think India is still essentially a 2 party system (and not necessarily the Congress and the BJP only)
For eg. in TN it wud be DMK versus ADMK. In UP the SP versus BSP. In Punjab the Congress versus Akalis. In J&K the NC versus PDP etc. and so on.

4) What is happening is that the Left seems to be shrinking politically as are the Big 2 parties also.

5) Insofar as AAP is concerned, it is pretty clear it is an RSS operation to transfer the RSS vote bank out of BJP into "winnable" rebels in specific seats so that if the votes break in a certain way the RSS assumes more importance than it represents, and also at the time of BJP's ticket distribution. The Congress is concerned because of the rebel factor - their vote bank tends to be somewhat more "swingy" than an ideological party's and the split factor would hurt them slightly more than BJP.

Sarbajit

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Israel Jayakaran <israel@jayakaran.com> wrote:

Sarabajit.

No, no, you are completely off the mark. I am thinking of a political party where every face will be new but the most intelligent and expereinced Indians in some field who are in a position to 'give' will be the members.

We don't want theold haggards at all. If one thinks that we cannot do without the old horses,he/she will be completely wrong. There are thousands of intellectuals and we have to pull them out.

If we follow the strategy which I shall reveal in some appropriate time, I have no doubt that party will capture easily 500 seats and form a single party government. And that' the need of the day as well. The new adinistration will bring in new thoughts,new approaches and new work ethics..

Don't forget that th voters are fed up with BJP and Congress. They are on the look out for a viable new party. Bu where is it? This where you and I come in.

Are you with me so far? Well, more later if you are on my wavelength.

Regards,

Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), veteran, Chennai.

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Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Dear all,

I have been inadvertently put in the group by someone; I get n number of mails making life quite difficult; I request the manager of the account to please delete my name from the list.

I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Sincerely

Komal Kamra

Komal Kamra
Associate Professor
Department of Zoology
Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Khalsa College
University of Delhi
Delhi 110 007
komalkamra@yahoo.com
+91 987 177 1417

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: iac <iac@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, 9 December 2012 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Dear Nandhu

May I respectfully update you on 1 or 2 aspects of the glorification of peaceful Gandhian methods.

1) India won independence because of the revolutionary freedom fighters (so called terrorists) who hammered the British with their unconventional activities and made their commercial operations in India unviable.

2) India would have been independent from 1924 had it not been for quislings and British stooges like Gandhi/MotilalNehru and their Congress

3) India would have been one unified country. For instance, there would never have been the Partition of Bengal had it not been for the Congress.

4) All the history books of India have been comprehensively massacred to turn revolutionaries into comic book cartoons.

5) The 2010-2011 so-called non-violent Gandhian IAC movement was yet another exercise in futility orchestrated by the Congress-RSS axis. What has it achieved ? Nothing ! Where has all the scam money gone ? Certainly not back to the citizens from whom it was looted !

Sarbajit

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Re: [IAC++] Fwd: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

It is because the Babus are not the commanders of the Armed Forces. Depute some IAS/IPS to the Armed Forces irrespective of the stringent selection process to the forces and then let them grow from the junior most rank as officers. Perhaps the things might change though it seems like a fairy dream or a demon dream.
Vijoy Ambasta Ex Master Chief Artificer. Indian Navy

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 4:55 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

DearAll,
A nation that neglects its soldiers surely will forefeit it's right and ability to exist as has been conclusively proved in the recent ,past, ancient history. Soldiers can and will share poverty of the nation but not stupidity of the MOD babus most of whom seem to be hell bent (in explicably) to be anti Defence services. On the other hand CPOs( ie central police orgs viz police community under central and state control ) are reasonably well looked after by babus of the same IAS etc in the MHA. The only explanation I can offer is that unlike police men who are clued up about the babus character The Defense services men be they serving or ESM are a simple lot and can be looted/ misused/ravaged at will by babus(some times aided and abetted by Judaea of armed forces).

Do please consider and ponder to further natural justice.
Regards.
LtCol Veteran TTKishore,Engineers,IA

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Satbir
Date: Monday, November 26, 2012
Subject: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES
To: iesm_group <iesm_group@googlegroups.com>

Dear Veterans,                                                                                              Dated: 27 Nov 2012

       Letter to all MPs regarding "Neglect of Armed Forces" dated 27 Nov 2012 is enclosed herewith for your information and wide circulation please.

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                          Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057                                                                      Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

……………………..

NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Dear Members of Parliament                                                                          Dated: 27 Nov 2012

1.     On 22 Nov 2012, Arvind Kejriwal of IAC highlighted the plight of NSG Commando Surender Singh who was boarded out due to being medically disabled because of injuries sustained on 26/11 during Terrorist Attack in Bombay.

2.   We wish to bring to the notice of our elected representative and through you all to the Nation's, the plight of lakhs of soldiers and their families and widows. All our missives to the President, PM, RM, and UPA Chairperson for the last five years have evoked no response whatsoever. Even Supreme Court Judgements are being flouted and ignored with impunity. The MoD, instead of looking after the affairs military, in just and fair manner, is putting all blocks to thwart the most legitimate demands of defence forces. Govt actions relating to veterans affairs indicate an institutional indifference and perhaps wilful design that is both alarming and demotivating. Consider the following:-

a.    The ridiculous situation wherein a Major General draws a pension lower than that of a Lieutenant Colonel- three ranks lower in the hierarchy.

b.   A Havildar drawing a pension less than that of a Sepoy, which is a much junior rank?

c.   A Lieutenant General drawing almost the same pension as a Colonel or a Brigadier, ranks that are junior.

d.   While all Central Govt employees have been given three Assured Career Progressions by the 6^th CPC, the same has been denied to the "Sepoy" who is compulsorily retired after 15 – 17 years of service and the Assured Career progressions to Defence personnel are authorized after 8, 16, 24 years of service. Is it not Gross injustice that a Sepoy is not granted the financial benefit of 3^rd Career Progression before retirement to enable him to get the pension accordingly?

e.    Non-inclusion of Defence Services in even benefits like Non Functional Upgrades (NFU), made applicable to all other Government services EXCEPT Defence Services.

f.      Widows of Defence personnel are invariably left out of accretions in Pensions announced for JCO/OR.

g.    An amazing 39 serious anomalies have arisen in the implementation of even the 6^th Central Pay Commission, causing grave injustice to the Defence Personnel in their status and thus inter-se equation with other Central Services, pay and pensions.

h.   Non implementation of the 'Rank Pay' awarded holistically by the Fourth Pay Commission, despite a recent court order.

i.     Periodically falsely claiming grants and benefits to Defence Veterans, without them being granted. For example, a recent announcement of an increase in the pensions of defnece forces is being claimed by the Govt to be a grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP), whereas, in actual fact, it is a partial eradication of deliberate mistake in implementation of 6^th CPC award.

j.      Contesting all judicial orders / rulings favoring Defence Veterans.

k.   Non-inclusion of Uniformed fraternity even in committees set up over matters directly affecting them.

3.   It seems the country does not respect the sacrifices made by a soldier who lays down his life for the country. There is no respect for those in uniform who would not think twice before making the supreme sacrifice. This is a very unfortunate state of affairs. The government is bluffing the country and the unsuspecting soldiers. The Ex servicemen across the country feel neglected, their legitimate demands ignored.

4. The political system has been depriving the serving defene personnel to vote at the place of posting which is their constitutional right as per the Peoples Representation Act. The system of postal ballot and proxy voting which were meant for personnel posted abroad, has been thrusted on the defence personnel within the country. Both these options have not worked thus denying the right to vote to soldiers. The defence locations within the country are part of a constituency, thus the defence personnel posted within in the country are to be registered as voters as ordinary residents of that constituency. During the last assembly election in Uttrakhand, over one lac soldiers could not cast their votes due to the faulty system of Postal Ballot. There are over 60 big cantonments and over 250 military stations in the country where defence personnel have the strength to influence the electoral process.

5.   We appeal to our members of parliament, to jointly take up the above issues with the Govt for their immediate redressal. Shortage of 14000 officers, upward trend in cases of indiscipline, over 115 defence personnel committing suicides every year for the past 10 years, inadequacies in our defence preparedness are adversely affecting the security of the Nation. Our country can ill afford to allow such situation to continue any further.

6. May we request you for your immediate indulgence? If need be, discuss and debate these issues through call attention motion or under any other parliamentary procedure. The time is running out.

Jai Hind!!

With Warm Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh,SM                                                                           Vice Chairman Indian Ex Servicemen Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-411057
Email : satbirsm@gmail.com,satbirsm@yahoo.com

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Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Can I taken off the list please. Thanks.
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Sender: iac-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 09:29:52
To: iac<iac@lists.riseup.net>
Reply-To: iac@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less
democratic sysem

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Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi

Aseem - you are right & expressed exact feelings most of us have got.
Since we had chosen not to express them till the time it becomes
noxious to efforts we are taking, time has come to forgive the sins he
is making without realizing the repercussions of the same.

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:04 AM, <asim.human@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
> I am amazed to see how much many of us love Anna. Respecting elders is our culture but when we deny others rights to analyse a person and express their own opinion, its surly undemocratic. I support what Sadhana Ji said. Mr Anna Hazare shall take rest now or he shall spend some time to read books and get exact knowledge of how democracy functions, what is ideology means etc. IAC made him a big personality for no reasons. He is a very simple honest person like many. Simplicity is the way of life for many persons in villages. We must respect all such persons. But IAC has presented Anna in a very blown up manner. If many in the group are of the habit of glorification of person (Vyakti-pooja) then its ok for them to praise Anna. But at some point of time we need to understand that he is not that great, let him live his life at Ralegansiddhi, let him work on water preservation plans.
> - Asim Sarode
> Pune
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vijoy Ambasta <vijoy.ambasta@gmail.com>
> Sender: iac-request@lists.riseup.net
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 08:16:38
> To: <iac@lists.riseup.net>
> Reply-To: iac@lists.riseup.net
> Subject: Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi
>
> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
> Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
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>
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Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Hi Panini

Re: your analysis. Could you clear some info gaps which would have made the analysis more comprehensive .

How many Muslims has the BJP given tickets to this time round in Gujarat ?

How many Muslim women has the BJP given tickets to in Gujarat ?

Sarbajit

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Panini Anand <panini.anand@gmail.com> wrote:

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283234

Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi

Dear all,
I am amazed to see how much many of us love Anna. Respecting elders is our culture but when we deny others rights to analyse a person and express their own opinion, its surly undemocratic. I support what Sadhana Ji said. Mr Anna Hazare shall take rest now or he shall spend some time to read books and get exact knowledge of how democracy functions, what is ideology means etc. IAC made him a big personality for no reasons. He is a very simple honest person like many. Simplicity is the way of life for many persons in villages. We must respect all such persons. But IAC has presented Anna in a very blown up manner. If many in the group are of the habit of glorification of person (Vyakti-pooja) then its ok for them to praise Anna. But at some point of time we need to understand that he is not that great, let him live his life at Ralegansiddhi, let him work on water preservation plans.
- Asim Sarode
Pune
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA

-----Original Message-----
From: Vijoy Ambasta <vijoy.ambasta@gmail.com>
Sender: iac-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 08:16:38
To: <iac@lists.riseup.net>
Reply-To: iac@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi

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Re: [IAC++] Disrespect for an old man (Anna)

Dear All
Barring all the disrespectful words for Anna & his team, I can only say that in future there would certainly be more enlightened souls who would cast their votes in future with everything what Anna said in their minds. And this is what was missing. A very +ve contribution indeed!!!
Vijoy Ambasta

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 12:38 AM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:

well, while the abuse is graceless, the hallmark of "Team Anna"
(current and ex) as been shooting their mouths off to the press till
everyone has totally lost track of what all they said.

There was a time when residents of localities marched around in
solidarity for them. I know some offices that formally extended lunch
time to go around the building shouting random patriotic and Team Anna
slogans.

From there to here is a well earned fall.

The supporters rallied strongly and were a solid wall between any
possible attack on him, because they were protecting what they saw as
*their* interest. Then started the grand gestures. The committee was
formed. People were skeptical. The arrogance started, and the belief
that they were saviors, rather than containers for the people's
interest. Then came the bizarre statements. Reckless is about the only
way you could describe them.

Approval of Modi, comment on Sharad Pawar's (well deserved) slap,
accusations against politicians, brazen statements without substance.
They were no longer the quiet, modest, non-violent people enacting
belief in an idea of Satyagraha. And then they were all over the
place. Campaigning against parties in elections, guests on children's
talent shows, talk shows... you name it. The supporters got fatigued
from defending the constant barrage of bizarre.

Anna seemed to realize this. He even tried moun vrats. It was too
little, too late.

Kiran Bedi put a major nail in the coffin of their credibility with
her arrogance over those expenses exposed. She may not have seen it as
corruption, but it was, and she totally failed to be graceful. She
insisted she was innocent and being framed and these small things were
normal, expected.... but hey, slipping fifty to the traffic cop is
also expected. Heck it is practically tradition here!

It is possible for everyone to make mistakes. However integrity
demands an apology and admitting. Kiran paid back the money, but her
credibility was dead. A simple thing like "I did not look at it like
this. I didn't realize. It is corruption too. I am returning the money
and will be more careful from now on" would have worked far better
than "it is understood, everyone does it" etc.

The misogyny was another big no-no. And so on.

The point is that they have talked so much, that people are totally
confused. It is not just the IAC list. The "mass support" no longer
bets their own credibility on their honesty.

So there is anger against Anna for disappointing. Anna isn't a
strategist. He doesn't deserve that anger, but feelings are not
logical. His disapproval of Kejriwal disturbs the "crowd", because
they would like to feel that earlier certainty and confidence of being
together and on the right track.

It is tragic, but it cannot be helped.

Raising the voting age won't help. You got 60 year olds talking
exactly like this too.

Vidyut

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> The tragedy of Anna Hazare is that he getting shafted today by the same
> youngsters he so chased after
> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Anna-hazare-says-he-will-not-vote-for-arvind-kejriwals-aam-aadmi-part.../1041307/
>
> Anna's crime :- saying he would not vote for AAP on principled (Gandhian)
> grounds
>
> Please read the comments. (examples below)
>
> "Anna is a "snake in the grass .. He is becoming a shame for the nation"
> "What is wrong with this old fellow, what is all this "on" & "off" game that
> he is playing?"
> "AH Wake up this is 2012 not 1945 .. If Kejriwal is after power and money so
> be it . .. All you can do is go on a fast which nobody supports now .."
> "Who the hell is he? He is just an illiterate old man who thinks that he can
> change the world by his bizarre methodology. "
>
> This is every reason to propose that the voting age is raised to 25 years.
>
> Sarbajit
>
>

> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
> Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
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>

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Re: [IAC++] Dear Anna please take rest at Ralegaon Siddhi

We the people of India have the guts to pass leud remarks even for Anna. I just want to ask Madam Sadhana about her need to send this caustic remarks for Shri Anna thgat is in very poor taste.
Regards
Vijoy Ambasta

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Sadhna Shrivastav <shrivastav.sadhna@gmail.com> wrote:

.

RE: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

Dear All,

Namaste!

Political Parties will be irrelevant with implementation of the following Plan:

My Plan to Prevent Corruption & all other Democratic Evils:

1. Replace bogus Representation of Peoples Act, 1950-51 with new JanPratinidhi Act enacted with public suggestions.
2. Introduce Voters Education & Protection.
3. Scrap UPSC/State PSCs & create more institutions to qualify Public Servants with Public Spirit.
4. Reserve Rajya Sabha entirely for Civil Society to balance Politics Vs Civil Society.
5. Create Regulator for Political Parties like Regulators for other organisations.
6. Enact excellent Corporate Laws purely in national/public interest.
7. Strengthening Right to Information Act, 2005 for excellent public accountability & transparency.

8. Enacting & Enforcing Excellent Citizens Charter for Excellent Public Service.

9. Reviewing & Scrapping present laws unsuitable to Democracy.

10. Holding Constitutional Heads, ie, President & Governors of States responsible for better Governance.

Are citizens ready and willing to work for this plan?

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 22:19:12 +0530
From: wide.aware@gmail.com
To: iac@lists.riseup.net
CC: mdapte@gmail.com; sroy.mb@gmail.com; coldewan@gmail.com; chetlurpartha@yahoo.com; hinduvoicemumbai@gmail.com; apteganesh65@gmail.com; adchaubal@hotmail.com; apasmalb@gmail.com; gello.asnani@yahoo.com; vasantbanahatti26@gmail.com; kumar2786@hotmail.com; oberoi50@yahoo.com; vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in; kalyan97@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India - A party less democratic sysem

I had a similar idea a few years back. Got reply along the lines of: "It is not possible. It is too sensible. There is no provision of gaining the upper hand. Everyone will have to be equal. Can't allow that."

Vidyut

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Israel Jayakaran <israel@jayakaran.com> wrote:

Dear All,

         Democacy is good but it could be misused so much so that the majoirty decision (A hall markof democracy) need not be always correct.It all depends on the quality and character of

the MPs/MLAs who vote. If we have a collection of selfish and money minded members, you can't get a decision in favour of the people. In such a scenario, any majority decision would be in the interest of the voting members. So, the caliber of the elected members matter a lot.If the voting members are inherently bad and self oriented, we will get only a bad majority decision which woud be in favour of the members and not in favour of the people who elected them. So, is the majority decsion always good?

        In our present democratic set up, anyLallu, Panju could stand for elections regardless of his/her competence. All one needs to win an election is 'money'. Presently, only a multi millionnaire could thinkof fighting the elections. What kind of democracy is this?

        I still recall that in 1940's and early 50's, the elected members were very simple and moved with the people freely, asking them about their problems and they went all out to solve their problems. Not any more. Once elected, an MP becomes special human being; he is inaccessible; he wouldn't like to talk with you. (Perhaps, you can if you offer him a few thousands). He is in the seat of power for himself and not for you and me.

        My hard thinking brought one point clear to my mind.        '' The high cost of our elections is the villain of all troubles.; a person spends tons of money to get elected and once elelcted,he gathers more money for the next elections." In sch a scenario, do you expect an ordinary pensioner to stand for elections, but mind you he is absolutely a top class man on administration and a born leader. But all these are useless in the election context.

         The next villain is the party type of democracy. What kinds of candidates the party heads put up for elections? His winning ability; all other qualities get pushed to the backgound. Do you expect any kind of quality and competence from such elected goons?

          Dont you wish that we had a system whereof only the most competent people stand for elections; those who have some achievemns to their credit and are in a position to give and they don't have to spend a paise on elections? Even such persons will have to be requested to stand for election by selec ion committee.

          Almost a dream, you would sy. And yet it is possible to have such a system within the present democratic framework. And yet, all the riff raffs would stand barred from the hustings. It is possible, friend. All we have to do is to work on its introduction . Please read my article at the attachment, which spells out such a system and is titled: A party less democratic set up for India .

         I would welcome your comments on the article.

                                                                                 Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), signasls, veteran, Chennai

----- Original Message -----

From: Mukund Apte

To: Sarabjit Roy ; Col (Retd) Israel Jayakaran

Cc: iac@lists.riseup.net ; Col (Retd) Satish C Dewan ; parthasarathy ca ; Shri P Deivamuthu ; Ganesh Apte ; Brig (Retd) A D Chaubal ; L B Thapa ; Prof G. C. Asnani ; vasant banahatti ; Kumar Arun ; Satish Oberoi ; vasant sardesai ; Srinivasan Kalyanaraman

Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 7:30 PM

Subject: Re: [IAC++] A new political set up for India.

Dear Sir,
According to me the main culprit for our current pitiable condition is Democracy. Please note that Democracy generates (imposed) Competition amongst people. The Competition being for Power, it is very intense and therefore creates conflicts in minds. This create chasm between various groups of people. The situation in other (Democratically functioning) countries is not much different. (People are neither happy nor contented). Then the game of bribing the voters does not take long to commence. This really initiated corruption in high places that we want to finish. So really we must change the system of our State functioning.

What Mr Sarabjitsaheb says is true. In the Democracy good and upright people may not like to contest since they are not that popular and in election, popularity of the candidates is under test and nothing else, isn't it?

I am attaching my write up on Democracy. You may understand my point of view little better when you go through it. I am attaching it. Kindly let us have comments in order to develop it still further for our use.

With regards to all,

------Mukund Apte

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Col Jayakaran

We really appreciate the trouble you are taking in the prime of your life to think of saving the nation.

My own model however, gives me a quite different output.

1) My model says that honest, intelligent people do not get elected to public office. If a new party puts up 542 such candidates, they would be lucky to win even 10 seats.

2) My model says that the more corrupt the party which is elected the better the improvements in life for the average middle-class urban citizen.

3) I dont think that voters are as fed up with the BJP AND the Congress as you make out. I think India is still essentially a 2 party system (and not necessarily the Congress and the BJP only)
For eg. in TN it wud be DMK versus ADMK. In UP the SP versus BSP. In Punjab the Congress versus Akalis. In J&K the NC versus PDP etc. and so on.

4) What is happening is that the Left seems to be shrinking politically as are the Big 2 parties also.

5) Insofar as AAP is concerned, it is pretty clear it is an RSS operation to transfer the RSS vote bank out of BJP into "winnable" rebels in specific seats so that if the votes break in a certain way the RSS assumes more importance than it represents, and also at the time of BJP's ticket distribution. The Congress is concerned because of the rebel factor - their vote bank tends to be somewhat more "swingy" than an ideological party's and the split factor would hurt them slightly more than BJP.

Sarbajit

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Israel Jayakaran <israel@jayakaran.com> wrote:

Sarabajit.

No, no, you are completely off the mark. I am thinking of a political party where every face will be new but the most intelligent and expereinced Indians in some field who are in a position to 'give' will be the members.

We don't want theold haggards at all. If one thinks that we cannot do without the old horses,he/she will be completely wrong. There are thousands of intellectuals and we have to pull them out.

If we follow the strategy which I shall reveal in some appropriate time, I have no doubt that party will capture easily 500 seats and form a single party government. And that' the need of the day as well. The new adinistration will bring in new thoughts,new approaches and new work ethics..

Don't forget that th voters are fed up with BJP and Congress. They are on the look out for a viable new party. Bu where is it? This where you and I come in.

Are you with me so far? Well, more later if you are on my wavelength.

Regards,

Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), veteran, Chennai.

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