Saturday, February 2, 2013

[IAC#RG] A rats' arse

Your reply to Mr.Sundaram was disheartening.You have mentioned that  IAC doesn't give a rats arse for ELECTIONS. Since you do not believe in democracy,can I take it that IAC cares the same arse for judiciary,good governance,anti-corruption etc.Then what is the aim of this forum,a French Revolution?

We were showing the same part of anatomy(you took it from the rat to show your contempt for elections) to foreign invaders for almost 1000 years by busying ourselves, squabbling between us.So let us not use this forum for weakening our nation by creating anarchy.



navnith

 

 

Re: [IAC#RG] Sh.Prem Sabhlok, about your son Sanjeev Sabhlok

Dear Mr. Sundaresan

We have already discussed some of this.

The IAC mudslinging is going on for 1 year because of elections first Gujarat, then it will be Delhi then it will be for all of India. We have only been with this IAC for 3 months and are trying to REDUCE the mudslinging. The easiest way to do that is to start throwing people out.

1) We are repeatedly saying that IAC doesn't give a rats arse for ELECTIONS and electing god/clean/honest candidates etc. If you want to do that OR if you are a political person who thinks that a) Narendra Modi, b) Arvind Kejriwal c) Rahul Gandhi d) Gen VKS or any of the other names being thrown around have those qualities and will be good PM material then please go elsewhere and stop using our list facility. We dont want to know about it. As far as we are concerned the entire ELECTORAL POLITICAL process is CORRUPT and an EYEWASH. .. IAC is an apolitical movement ...

2) IAC has the best RTIers of India in our ranks. Yet, I can tell you that seeking such information in RTI is a BIG WASTE OF TIME. Even suppose you know using RTI that your Mr. Kamal Nath (is that his real name ?) is a corrupt fellow, WHAT WILL YOU DO ABOUT IT ?? Have you considered that judges of SC and HC who will hear his case eventually are possibly even more corrupt than he is !!! Have you considered that this person cannot move an inch without blessings of his "High Command" and it is all one big incestuous system of corruption.

3) Somebody told me the other day (although I have not been able to conform it) that a former judge, bought 2 large and adjacent plots in one of the poshest areas of Delhi for Rs. 600 crores. How did he do this ? Will you get such answers in RTI ?

4) The road IAC is taking is not so obvious. We don't want to take credit for our works or get lionised in the media. We are only concerned that a change must and shall take place. The sort of changes we are working on do not concern the common man directly, ie. we are not concerned with petty corruption.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 11:52 PM, kalyanam sundaresan <ask_maadhyama@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear All who are concerned about INDIA AGAINST CORRUPTION,

By going through the various Mails emanating from the so called IAC Members, it is very clear that this media is utilised only to exchange their personal animosities and settle their personal scores.  By rejoinders and counter rejoinders nothing constructive has been achieved by IAC except diluting its concept for which it started.  In the name of IAC, only mudslinging exercise is  going on for the past nearly one year.  Let the Organizers who claim to be the real genuine IAC, list out what they had achieved to expose atleast the most corrupt in the country and action initiated to bring them to books. 

 Assembly Elections in some States and Parliamentary Elections are round the corner.  It is the duty and prime responsibility of the IAC to ensure that corrupt MLAs, MPs, are not get elected again in the ensuing Elections.  Election Commission to be issued very clear and strict instructions to accept Nomination Papers who have filed IT Returns right from the day, they became eligible to contest Elections.  Their Assets including Movable and Immovable Properties, Business, Professional  and their income thereon should be scrutinized and in all angles and investigated for possible under declaration of known and unknown incomes and satisfied before accepting their Nominations filed that they have declared their correct income. Candidates who had already served as MLAs. MPs. or Ministers for one term and several terms, their incomes should be investigated in deep. 

There are MLAs, MPs & Ministers declaring their income ranging from Rs.5 to 400 Crores. Such candidates should compulsorily furnish details of source of their income.  If they had inherited income from their parents or grand parents, their source of income to be investigated. One Central Minister from Maharastra  (Sri .Kamal Nath - His correct full Name is not striking in my mind now) has declared his known assets around Rs.350 Crores.  How he has amazed such a huge Asset? No information so far in the Newspapers on this. IAC should have more volunteers and file RTI  queries on the Assets of Ex and serving Presidents, Vice Presidents, Governors, Prime Minister, State and Central Ministers, Chief Ministers, all  MLAs, MPs, All Office Bearers of all Political Parties, Mayors, Councillors, Panchayat Board Presidents and file cases if they have accrued Assets disproportionate to their income.  (Unknown Income is a different issue  which can be unearthed only through raids by IT or ED)

If one is working in Govt or Quasi Govts (PSUs) he or she is not permitted to do any other work i.e. part time work/job. For examples, such employees are not permitted to become Agents for LIC, GICs, soliciting Deposits for Banks, Non-Banking Institutions, Directors of Trust, Societies, Sabhas, Religious Institutions etc., etc., through which they earn extra addl. income.  But, in the case of President, VP, Governors, PM, Ministers, MPs, MLAs, Mayors, etc., who are elected to serve the Public/Nation  without any remuneration (as per the original Constitution, but of-course amended several times to suit their convenience for fixing and revising their remuneration and allowances, it is Rs.80000 plus for MPs ) now getting handsome salaries and allowance on par with Govt. top most  Employees. But, they are not classified as Govt. Employees.  God only knows, what work all these Servants are doing for getting such a handsome salaries and allowance. If you look into it, most of them don't do any work except exhorting money.  But, how then, they are permitted to do multi various activities viz., Business, Running Schools, Colleges, Universities appointing themselves as Vice Chancellors, Running Multi Speciality Hospitals, Chairman of  Central and State Undertakings, Boards, Directors in various companies, taking up contract works in Govt. and Private etc., etc.  How the  persons who are  elected to serve the Public/Nation now, getting Govt.salary, allowances and pension permitted to multi various business earning additional crores of Rupees in black and white.  But, in records, it will reveal that they are not getting any remuneration as VC, Principal, Chairman, Director etc., etc and they are Honorary Chairman, Director etc., etc.   Are not the Citizens being fooled by such Policies perpetuated by the Govt. to amaze wealth by these class of fraternity. Why IAC is watching and knowingly keeping quite which one of the source of corruption in the country. There are serious corruption charges against many Political Leaders involving Rs. 100s and 1000s of Crores.  They are yet to be punished.   But, they contested elections, got elected  by questionable means, appointed as Ministers and enjoying all privileges and roaming around as a VVIP.  Why IAC is watching all these atrocities and keeping quite ? Is it not the time to wake up and put an end to these atrocities which are the culmination of corruption in India?  

By simply exchanging Mails between each other IAC is not going to achieve the Goal.  IAC should show its Power in action. It should come out from its deep hibernation.  Otherwise, it will become a defunct Organisation like any other Organisation started earlier to root out Corruption,  Will the Leaders of IAC realise this and raise up to the expectation of Common Man ? I am sure better sense will prevail upon the Leaders and start acting on various connected to Corruption.   PLEASE NOTE ALL ARE WATCHING YOU WHETHER YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DELIVERING THE GOODS. 

With Best Regards,
A.S.KALYANAM
Retd. Manager LPG Sales, IndianOil, TNSO, SR. Chennai.
Old No.29/New No.13, Rukmani St. West Mambalam, Chennai 600 033.
---

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

If you have legal versions of Windows O/S-Operating System and Microsoft Office, go to Microsoft Download Centre and search and download concerned Language Pack- Hindi, Punjabi, e.t.c. and then install on your PC

Best wishes,
helping hand



From: Rajendra Dasila <rajendradasila@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2013 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

Dear All,
            Can some one tell me how to write in Hindi on comptr screen. I like my mother
tongue and want to write in Hindi but don't know about it. Sincere request. Pl help me.
Thanking.
With regards and best wishes
Dasila  

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
The issue is not just one of Hindi and Tamil, but the "identity" issue with Dravidian languages and Indo-Aryan languages. - as I got the feeling from some people with heavy identity issues. There is some of this feeling in Maharashtra as well. And to some extent, it is also far more serious, because the economic capital of Mumbai is rapidly resulting in the marginaization of the Marathi language and native speakers. We see this among the Bangladeshis, who rejected the imposed Urdu so strongly, that it was a large part of their wish for freedom.

Being a Maharashtrian, I can speak some for the decline of Marathi from my knowledge. in 1910, we had US typewriter manufacturer offer a typewriter model for Marathi. A century later, Google translate does not cater to this language - in spite of it being it is the 19th most spoken language in the world. It is the official language of Maharashtra, co-official language in Daman and Diu and Dadara and Nagar Haveli, while being unofficially recognized in Goa. It is fourth most spoken in India, with 27 million speakers as of 2001. 

When google translate does not cater to it, most exclusively Marathi readers, or those more comfortable in Marathi have no access to a lot of information. Searching for anything in Marathi yields precious little anything, which is rarely accurate - since Google doesn't support it, it clubs it with Hindi, which does not work. That is a hell of a lot of Indians without access to the wider world. This also ties in with their increasing marginalization in Mumbai. While the Thackerays and their hooliganism is not an answer, the support they get is from the local humiliation at being seen as "ghati" in the place they were born!

These things are very closely related with the abandonment of language. As people with greater access to knowledge spread their horizons, the ones without occupy increasingly less space and power. It is a cyclic thing. Disempowerment marginalizes language, and lack of support for language disempowers further - which suits capitalist interests in Mumbai very well - they mainly operate in English/Hindi. The people are frustrated and cannon fodder for political interests.

Identity and language are closely entwined, and I think imposing languages is as good as colonization. Agree with Justice Katju, that a recommendation is about the most that is gracefully possibe (or advisable).

I agree to some extent that a common language will be useful, but English does serve the purpose to a great extent with the additional bonus of a far larger reach to knowledge. It is possibly the only common linguistic factor India wide - we were all a British colony and learned to operate in English as a result.

That said, I think a far greater concern is the lack of attention to regional languages, which are increasingly dying in importance. Faster in some places, slower in others, but I am not sure if any are actually thriving at all, in terms of growing literature, etc. Maybe Hindi. You have the usual consumer usage - films, newspapers. Where are the great Tagores and Pu La Deshpandes and so on?

It is one of my keenest beliefs that knowledge accessible in the language one speaks naturally is vital for development and intellectual upliftment of people. India wishes to become a superpower. If you look at other superpowers, they operate in the mother tongues of the people of the land - including the internet. US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China.... all have massive parts of the internet seamlessly usable in their languages. India, the largest democracy in the world does not.

I believe till we can invest heavily in languages, automatic machie-translation competence and such things, we are not going to get the power of advancement and knowledge to most citizens.

So in my view, we should be looking more at getting communication to reach every citizen rather than getting citizens to standardize to one language. We are techonologically advanced enough for this to be possible.

Vidyut

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Re: [IAC#RG] Sh.Prem Sabhlok, about your son Sanjeev Sabhlok

Dear All who are concerned about INDIA AGAINST CORRUPTION,

By going through the various Mails emanating from the so called IAC Members, it is very clear that this media is utilised only to exchange their personal animosities and settle their personal scores.  By rejoinders and counter rejoinders nothing constructive has been achieved by IAC except diluting its concept for which it started.  In the name of IAC, only mudslinging exercise is  going on for the past nearly one year.  Let the Organizers who claim to be the real genuine IAC, list out what they had achieved to expose atleast the most corrupt in the country and action initiated to bring them to books. 

 Assembly Elections in some States and Parliamentary Elections are round the corner.  It is the duty and prime responsibility of the IAC to ensure that corrupt MLAs, MPs, are not get elected again in the ensuing Elections.  Election Commission to be issued very clear and strict instructions to accept Nomination Papers who have filed IT Returns right from the day, they became eligible to contest Elections.  Their Assets including Movable and Immovable Properties, Business, Professional  and their income thereon should be scrutinized and in all angles and investigated for possible under declaration of known and unknown incomes and satisfied before accepting their Nominations filed that they have declared their correct income. Candidates who had already served as MLAs. MPs. or Ministers for one term and several terms, their incomes should be investigated in deep. 

There are MLAs, MPs & Ministers declaring their income ranging from Rs.5 to 400 Crores. Such candidates should compulsorily furnish details of source of their income.  If they had inherited income from their parents or grand parents, their source of income to be investigated. One Central Minister from Maharastra  (Sri .Kamal Nath - His correct full Name is not striking in my mind now) has declared his known assets around Rs.350 Crores.  How he has amazed such a huge Asset? No information so far in the Newspapers on this. IAC should have more volunteers and file RTI  queries on the Assets of Ex and serving Presidents, Vice Presidents, Governors, Prime Minister, State and Central Ministers, Chief Ministers, all  MLAs, MPs, All Office Bearers of all Political Parties, Mayors, Councillors, Panchayat Board Presidents and file cases if they have accrued Assets disproportionate to their income.  (Unknown Income is a different issue  which can be unearthed only through raids by IT or ED)

If one is working in Govt or Quasi Govts (PSUs) he or she is not permitted to do any other work i.e. part time work/job. For examples, such employees are not permitted to become Agents for LIC, GICs, soliciting Deposits for Banks, Non-Banking Institutions, Directors of Trust, Societies, Sabhas, Religious Institutions etc., etc., through which they earn extra addl. income.  But, in the case of President, VP, Governors, PM, Ministers, MPs, MLAs, Mayors, etc., who are elected to serve the Public/Nation  without any remuneration (as per the original Constitution, but of-course amended several times to suit their convenience for fixing and revising their remuneration and allowances, it is Rs.80000 plus for MPs ) now getting handsome salaries and allowance on par with Govt. top most  Employees. But, they are not classified as Govt. Employees.  God only knows, what work all these Servants are doing for getting such a handsome salaries and allowance. If you look into it, most of them don't do any work except exhorting money.  But, how then, they are permitted to do multi various activities viz., Business, Running Schools, Colleges, Universities appointing themselves as Vice Chancellors, Running Multi Speciality Hospitals, Chairman of  Central and State Undertakings, Boards, Directors in various companies, taking up contract works in Govt. and Private etc., etc.  How the  persons who are  elected to serve the Public/Nation now, getting Govt.salary, allowances and pension permitted to multi various business earning additional crores of Rupees in black and white.  But, in records, it will reveal that they are not getting any remuneration as VC, Principal, Chairman, Director etc., etc and they are Honorary Chairman, Director etc., etc.   Are not the Citizens being fooled by such Policies perpetuated by the Govt. to amaze wealth by these class of fraternity. Why IAC is watching and knowingly keeping quite which one of the source of corruption in the country. There are serious corruption charges against many Political Leaders involving Rs. 100s and 1000s of Crores.  They are yet to be punished.   But, they contested elections, got elected  by questionable means, appointed as Ministers and enjoying all privileges and roaming around as a VVIP.  Why IAC is watching all these atrocities and keeping quite ? Is it not the time to wake up and put an end to these atrocities which are the culmination of corruption in India?  

By simply exchanging Mails between each other IAC is not going to achieve the Goal.  IAC should show its Power in action. It should come out from its deep hibernation.  Otherwise, it will become a defunct Organisation like any other Organisation started earlier to root out Corruption,  Will the Leaders of IAC realise this and raise up to the expectation of Common Man ? I am sure better sense will prevail upon the Leaders and start acting on various connected to Corruption.   PLEASE NOTE ALL ARE WATCHING YOU WHETHER YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DELIVERING THE GOODS. 

With Best Regards,
A.S.KALYANAM
Retd. Manager LPG Sales, IndianOil, TNSO, SR. Chennai.
Old No.29/New No.13, Rukmani St. West Mambalam, Chennai 600 033.
--- On Sat, 2/2/13, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: [IAC#RG] Sh.Prem Sabhlok, about your son Sanjeev Sabhlok
To: "Prem Sabhlok" <psabhlok@hotmail.com>, "indiaresists" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Saturday, 2 February, 2013, 6:42 PM

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (sroy.mb@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

Dear List subscribers,

I must inform our subscribers that we received over 300 replies to this thread/topic but only about 30 emails were allowed. We have tried to give a complete flavour / sense of the emails and we would like to close this discussion with our observations so that we can move on to better topics (IAC is not a gaggle of armchair internet warriors ... ).

1) IAC is now undoubtably a cosmopolitan and diverse group of patriotic intellectuals who are able to discuss over a wide spectrum of views in relative harmony.

2) Language is a divisive subject with potential to divide peoples instead of uniting them.

3) The Constitution of India stands for equality of opportunity and status to all citizens. Imposing an alien language (English, Hindi, Sanksrit, Esperanto etc.) through law has not worked for 63 years of the Republic and is unlikely to work in future. Similarly many other ancient well meaning provisions - Reservation, Art 370 etc have also outlived their utility and deserve to be removed.

4) There is no such language as Hindi, and what passes for Hindi on DD and AIR is a government concoction far removed from the people's language - Hindustani (which is well understood throughout most of Northern and Central India).

5) All languages need to be preserved and promoted, as culture is saved, enhanced and transmitted through language.

6) Sanksrit needs to be preserved and promoted as a symbol of our  nation's heritage and for transmission of Hindustan's ancient religious knowledge to those who believe in traditional value systems.

7) English is an international language with which India can rule the world.

Sarbajit

PS: @Harpal. In my education in Mumbai we were taught Marathi from 2nd standard (as 2nd language) in my English medium school, and only started learning Hindi from Class 4 (as 3rd language).

Since I have not contributed to this thread, I would like to share a language incident. In my youth I was backpacking across Europe with my brother and we had reached Paris to observe their Bastille Day (This was in 1987). In the evening the French had put up this wonderful fireworks display on their public buildings synchronised to music (Jean Michel Jarre). Lying on the open lawns we were next to 2 young illegals from Sri Lanka watching the show and got friendly with them.  Despite being from the same sub-continent and technically "neighbours", the only language we had in common and could converse in was GERMAN which all of us had picked up in under a month - (the illegals had reached France through Germany).

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:11 AM, Harpal Selhi <drharpal@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Runa n others

We are not saying that as a nation resist Hindi, but what matters is when for their political benefit they start promoting Hindi over the regional language or our mother tongue.

Can you imagine in Punjab, schools teach Hindi first and later in 3rd they start with Punjabi and then encourage Hindi in 9th n 10th grade, further children are encouraged to speak English or Hindi but told not to speak Punjabi.

I would like to hear your views on this!!!!!

Regards

Harpal

Next time you are driving, keep this in mind:

"Honk if you love Jesus, text if you want to meet him!"


Sent from my iPhone


Re: [HumJanenge] : INDIAN ANTI CORRUPTION MOVEMENT YET TO MAKE IMPACT

Cannot work till a large mass of people act in unison and taker is punished for his act,
What does a common individual do - not buy a house because the stamp duty fellow charges 4000 as documentation (xerox)fee through the broker fro an appointment
Take an example (as a parallel)
 




From: C K Jam <rtiwanted@yahoo.com>
To: "HumJanenge@googlegroups.com" <HumJanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] : INDIAN ANTI CORRUPTION MOVEMENT YET TO MAKE IMPACT

Follow one simple theory:

"If there is no giver, there will be no taker"

RTIwanted


From: Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:20 PM
Subject: [HumJanenge] : INDIAN ANTI CORRUPTION MOVEMENT YET TO MAKE IMPACT


To
 
Humjanenge
 
 
                                                           INDIAN  ANTI  CORRUPTION  MOVEMENT  YET  TO  MAKE  IMPACT
In spite of the huge noise made in the print and visual media about the anti corruption movement in India, the ground reality is that there is no improvement in the situation. Obviously, this means that  street  demonstrations,  debate in television media, ,  seminars , comments  in  twitter , blogs  and face books cannot take the movement forward.
What is conspicuous is that while the corrupt people demand bribe for any activity and even for cremation of human bodies, almost all people simply  pay the bribe money  and sometimes after negotiation.  The corrupt people seem to have the last laugh now, as they see that "barking dogs seldom bite"
What is required is intense and dedicated resistance to  corruption at individual  level,  which is not forthcoming.   This calls for sacrifice on the part of the people who want to fight against corruption. Even some of the most  vociferous  people against  corrupt conditions simply pay the bribe and get things done and then complain. They plead  excuse saying that they are helpless.  This is unacceptable situation and such conditions mean that the anti corruption movement is  carried out in vacuum. 
Unless there would resistance to corruption at individual level by  atleast small section of committed population, the movement will not go anywhere. Why not those committed to fight corruption take a oath that they will never succumb to pay bribe under any circumstances  and announce this in public domain?
N.S.Venkataraman
Nandini Voice For The Deprived
Chennai


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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to HumJanenge+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

yes i think we need to emphasize that we do not have a national language and are happy to be unique in this way. It is also important that the languages of the tribes of  India are developed and they should not be overridden by the culture of  maharashtra and gujarat or any other state for that matter.
When a language dies a culture dies and so also when a dialect dies a culture dies so we should encourage more non standard dialects and languages. Thus we shall be a culturally rich country. 
And of course the loan words the neologisms and archaisms of any language are welcome. 
The www has now got more and more languages on it so we can be happy. 
cheers and keep the issue alive we need to think about it
rajan  

``Education is Cultural Action for Freedom''- Paulo Freire


--- On Sat, 2/2/13, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Cc: majorgurjeet@gmail.com, indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Saturday, 2 February, 2013, 6:46 PM

The issue is not just one of Hindi and Tamil, but the "identity" issue with Dravidian languages and Indo-Aryan languages. - as I got the feeling from some people with heavy identity issues. There is some of this feeling in Maharashtra as well. And to some extent, it is also far more serious, because the economic capital of Mumbai is rapidly resulting in the marginaization of the Marathi language and native speakers. We see this among the Bangladeshis, who rejected the imposed Urdu so strongly, that it was a large part of their wish for freedom.

Being a Maharashtrian, I can speak some for the decline of Marathi from my knowledge. in 1910, we had US typewriter manufacturer offer a typewriter model for Marathi. A century later, Google translate does not cater to this language - in spite of it being it is the 19th most spoken language in the world. It is the official language of Maharashtra, co-official language in Daman and Diu and Dadara and Nagar Haveli, while being unofficially recognized in Goa. It is fourth most spoken in India, with 27 million speakers as of 2001. 

When google translate does not cater to it, most exclusively Marathi readers, or those more comfortable in Marathi have no access to a lot of information. Searching for anything in Marathi yields precious little anything, which is rarely accurate - since Google doesn't support it, it clubs it with Hindi, which does not work. That is a hell of a lot of Indians without access to the wider world. This also ties in with their increasing marginalization in Mumbai. While the Thackerays and their hooliganism is not an answer, the support they get is from the local humiliation at being seen as "ghati" in the place they were born!

These things are very closely related with the abandonment of language. As people with greater access to knowledge spread their horizons, the ones without occupy increasingly less space and power. It is a cyclic thing. Disempowerment marginalizes language, and lack of support for language disempowers further - which suits capitalist interests in Mumbai very well - they mainly operate in English/Hindi. The people are frustrated and cannon fodder for political interests.

Identity and language are closely entwined, and I think imposing languages is as good as colonization. Agree with Justice Katju, that a recommendation is about the most that is gracefully possibe (or advisable).

I agree to some extent that a common language will be useful, but English does serve the purpose to a great extent with the additional bonus of a far larger reach to knowledge. It is possibly the only common linguistic factor India wide - we were all a British colony and learned to operate in English as a result.

That said, I think a far greater concern is the lack of attention to regional languages, which are increasingly dying in importance. Faster in some places, slower in others, but I am not sure if any are actually thriving at all, in terms of growing literature, etc. Maybe Hindi. You have the usual consumer usage - films, newspapers. Where are the great Tagores and Pu La Deshpandes and so on?

It is one of my keenest beliefs that knowledge accessible in the language one speaks naturally is vital for development and intellectual upliftment of people. India wishes to become a superpower. If you look at other superpowers, they operate in the mother tongues of the people of the land - including the internet. US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China.... all have massive parts of the internet seamlessly usable in their languages. India, the largest democracy in the world does not.

I believe till we can invest heavily in languages, automatic machie-translation competence and such things, we are not going to get the power of advancement and knowledge to most citizens.

So in my view, we should be looking more at getting communication to reach every citizen rather than getting citizens to standardize to one language. We are techonologically advanced enough for this to be possible.

Vidyut

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh



TO: On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Rajendra Dasila <rajendradasila@gmail.com>
 
Click on circular flower like icon far left top corner of your gmail page.  Then select settings.  In the settings check  Enable input Tools, then select the language you want to type in.  If you have done this correctly a symbol will prop up next to the flower/wheel like symbol, with a letter in the language chosen.
 
नहीं समझ आया तो गूगल में अपना सवाल लिख दें।  वहां से पता चल जायेगा 
 
Hope that helps.
 
Virender
 
 
Dear All,
            Can some one tell me how to write in Hindi on comptr screen. I like my mother
tongue and want to write in Hinसवाल लिख di but don't know a
 
 
bout it. Sincere request. Pl help me.
Thanking.
With regards and best wishes
Dasila  

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
The issue is not just one of Hindi and Tamil, but the "identity" issue with Dravidian languages and Indo-Aryan languages. - as I got the feeling from some people with heavy identity issues. There is some of this feeling in Maharashtra as well. And to some extent, it is also far more serious, because the economic capital of Mumbai is rapidly resulting in the marginaization of the Marathi language and native speakers. We see this among the Bangladeshis, who rejected the imposed Urdu so strongly, that it was a large part of their wish for freedom.

Being a Maharashtrian, I can speak some for the decline of Marathi from my knowledge. in 1910, we had US typewriter manufacturer offer a typewriter model for Marathi. A century later, Google translate does not cater to this language - in spite of it being it is the 19th most spoken language in the world. It is the official language of Maharashtra, co-official language in Daman and Diu and Dadara and Nagar Haveli, while being unofficially recognized in Goa. It is fourth most spoken in India, with 27 million speakers as of 2001. 

When google translate does not cater to it, most exclusively Marathi readers, or those more comfortable in Marathi have no access to a lot of information. Searching for anything in Marathi yields precious little anything, which is rarely accurate - since Google doesn't support it, it clubs it with Hindi, which does not work. That is a hell of a lot of Indians without access to the wider world. This also ties in with their increasing marginalization in Mumbai. While the Thackerays and their hooliganism is not an answer, the support they get is from the local humiliation at being seen as "ghati" in the place they were born!

These things are very closely related with the abandonment of language. As people with greater access to knowledge spread their horizons, the ones without occupy increasingly less space and power. It is a cyclic thing. Disempowerment marginalizes language, and lack of support for language disempowers further - which suits capitalist interests in Mumbai very well - they mainly operate in English/Hindi. The people are frustrated and cannon fodder for political interests.

Identity and language are closely entwined, and I think imposing languages is as good as colonization. Agree with Justice Katju, that a recommendation is about the most that is gracefully possibe (or advisable).

I agree to some extent that a common language will be useful, but English does serve the purpose to a great extent with the additional bonus of a far larger reach to knowledge. It is possibly the only common linguistic factor India wide - we were all a British colony and learned to operate in English as a result.

That said, I think a far greater concern is the lack of attention to regional languages, which are increasingly dying in importance. Faster in some places, slower in others, but I am not sure if any are actually thriving at all, in terms of growing literature, etc. Maybe Hindi. You have the usual consumer usage - films, newspapers. Where are the great Tagores and Pu La Deshpandes and so on?

It is one of my keenest beliefs that knowledge accessible in the language one speaks naturally is vital for development and intellectual upliftment of people. India wishes to become a superpower. If you look at other superpowers, they operate in the mother tongues of the people of the land - including the internet. US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China.... all have massive parts of the internet seamlessly usable in their languages. India, the largest democracy in the world does not.

I believe till we can invest heavily in languages, automatic machie-translation competence and such things, we are not going to get the power of advancement and knowledge to most citizens.

So in my view, we should be looking more at getting communication to reach every citizen rather than getting citizens to standardize to one language. We are techonologically advanced enough for this to be possible.

Vidyut

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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

Vidyut ji (Bijili), Please don't mind calling  u  another name thats your name means that. You  have describe  beautifully that regional language even identity are being dyeing, why not  lets do book on this subject, I am a photographer  may visualize  in pix. Cheers Pramod Pushkarna 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
The issue is not just one of Hindi and Tamil, but the "identity" issue with Dravidian languages and Indo-Aryan languages. - as I got the feeling from some people with heavy identity issues. There is some of this feeling in Maharashtra as well. And to some extent, it is also far more serious, because the economic capital of Mumbai is rapidly resulting in the marginaization of the Marathi language and native speakers. We see this among the Bangladeshis, who rejected the imposed Urdu so strongly, that it was a large part of their wish for freedom.

Being a Maharashtrian, I can speak some for the decline of Marathi from my knowledge. in 1910, we had US typewriter manufacturer offer a typewriter model for Marathi. A century later, Google translate does not cater to this language - in spite of it being it is the 19th most spoken language in the world. It is the official language of Maharashtra, co-official language in Daman and Diu and Dadara and Nagar Haveli, while being unofficially recognized in Goa. It is fourth most spoken in India, with 27 million speakers as of 2001. 

When google translate does not cater to it, most exclusively Marathi readers, or those more comfortable in Marathi have no access to a lot of information. Searching for anything in Marathi yields precious little anything, which is rarely accurate - since Google doesn't support it, it clubs it with Hindi, which does not work. That is a hell of a lot of Indians without access to the wider world. This also ties in with their increasing marginalization in Mumbai. While the Thackerays and their hooliganism is not an answer, the support they get is from the local humiliation at being seen as "ghati" in the place they were born!

These things are very closely related with the abandonment of language. As people with greater access to knowledge spread their horizons, the ones without occupy increasingly less space and power. It is a cyclic thing. Disempowerment marginalizes language, and lack of support for language disempowers further - which suits capitalist interests in Mumbai very well - they mainly operate in English/Hindi. The people are frustrated and cannon fodder for political interests.

Identity and language are closely entwined, and I think imposing languages is as good as colonization. Agree with Justice Katju, that a recommendation is about the most that is gracefully possibe (or advisable).

I agree to some extent that a common language will be useful, but English does serve the purpose to a great extent with the additional bonus of a far larger reach to knowledge. It is possibly the only common linguistic factor India wide - we were all a British colony and learned to operate in English as a result.

That said, I think a far greater concern is the lack of attention to regional languages, which are increasingly dying in importance. Faster in some places, slower in others, but I am not sure if any are actually thriving at all, in terms of growing literature, etc. Maybe Hindi. You have the usual consumer usage - films, newspapers. Where are the great Tagores and Pu La Deshpandes and so on?

It is one of my keenest beliefs that knowledge accessible in the language one speaks naturally is vital for development and intellectual upliftment of people. India wishes to become a superpower. If you look at other superpowers, they operate in the mother tongues of the people of the land - including the internet. US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China.... all have massive parts of the internet seamlessly usable in their languages. India, the largest democracy in the world does not.

I believe till we can invest heavily in languages, automatic machie-translation competence and such things, we are not going to get the power of advancement and knowledge to most citizens.

So in my view, we should be looking more at getting communication to reach every citizen rather than getting citizens to standardize to one language. We are techonologically advanced enough for this to be possible.

Vidyut

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Ph: +91- 98-100- 45-182

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

Dear All,
            Can some one tell me how to write in Hindi on comptr screen. I like my mother
tongue and want to write in Hindi but don't know about it. Sincere request. Pl help me.
Thanking.
With regards and best wishes
Dasila  

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
The issue is not just one of Hindi and Tamil, but the "identity" issue with Dravidian languages and Indo-Aryan languages. - as I got the feeling from some people with heavy identity issues. There is some of this feeling in Maharashtra as well. And to some extent, it is also far more serious, because the economic capital of Mumbai is rapidly resulting in the marginaization of the Marathi language and native speakers. We see this among the Bangladeshis, who rejected the imposed Urdu so strongly, that it was a large part of their wish for freedom.

Being a Maharashtrian, I can speak some for the decline of Marathi from my knowledge. in 1910, we had US typewriter manufacturer offer a typewriter model for Marathi. A century later, Google translate does not cater to this language - in spite of it being it is the 19th most spoken language in the world. It is the official language of Maharashtra, co-official language in Daman and Diu and Dadara and Nagar Haveli, while being unofficially recognized in Goa. It is fourth most spoken in India, with 27 million speakers as of 2001. 

When google translate does not cater to it, most exclusively Marathi readers, or those more comfortable in Marathi have no access to a lot of information. Searching for anything in Marathi yields precious little anything, which is rarely accurate - since Google doesn't support it, it clubs it with Hindi, which does not work. That is a hell of a lot of Indians without access to the wider world. This also ties in with their increasing marginalization in Mumbai. While the Thackerays and their hooliganism is not an answer, the support they get is from the local humiliation at being seen as "ghati" in the place they were born!

These things are very closely related with the abandonment of language. As people with greater access to knowledge spread their horizons, the ones without occupy increasingly less space and power. It is a cyclic thing. Disempowerment marginalizes language, and lack of support for language disempowers further - which suits capitalist interests in Mumbai very well - they mainly operate in English/Hindi. The people are frustrated and cannon fodder for political interests.

Identity and language are closely entwined, and I think imposing languages is as good as colonization. Agree with Justice Katju, that a recommendation is about the most that is gracefully possibe (or advisable).

I agree to some extent that a common language will be useful, but English does serve the purpose to a great extent with the additional bonus of a far larger reach to knowledge. It is possibly the only common linguistic factor India wide - we were all a British colony and learned to operate in English as a result.

That said, I think a far greater concern is the lack of attention to regional languages, which are increasingly dying in importance. Faster in some places, slower in others, but I am not sure if any are actually thriving at all, in terms of growing literature, etc. Maybe Hindi. You have the usual consumer usage - films, newspapers. Where are the great Tagores and Pu La Deshpandes and so on?

It is one of my keenest beliefs that knowledge accessible in the language one speaks naturally is vital for development and intellectual upliftment of people. India wishes to become a superpower. If you look at other superpowers, they operate in the mother tongues of the people of the land - including the internet. US, England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China.... all have massive parts of the internet seamlessly usable in their languages. India, the largest democracy in the world does not.

I believe till we can invest heavily in languages, automatic machie-translation competence and such things, we are not going to get the power of advancement and knowledge to most citizens.

So in my view, we should be looking more at getting communication to reach every citizen rather than getting citizens to standardize to one language. We are techonologically advanced enough for this to be possible.

Vidyut

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Re: [IAC#RG] Sh.Prem Sabhlok, about your son Sanjeev Sabhlok

chor chori  se jaye par hera feri se na jaye ye kahawat  baap beta  par lagu hoti hai, jaisa ki aap ne likha hai .Satya ki jeet hogi.

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Shri Prem Sabhlok (subscriber IAC),

I am writing this email directly  to you, because you wrote an email to me forwarding Sh.Arvind Kejriwal's allegations against Mr.Mukesh Ambani -  to which I replied - to you, and your son Mr.Sanjeev Sabhlok (ex-IAS and now working for Govt. of Victoria, Australia) thereafter engaged in an email exchange with me concerning the allegations against those persons which he later unilaterally published on a website he runs "sabhlokcity.com" casting various aspersion on me.

I have come to know that your son Sanjeev, who was caused to resign from the IAS after a series of incidents spanning over 3 years, and who emigrated thereafter, is now professionally engaged in promoting sales of certain books written by himself and also by you. One of the modus operandi used by your son to promote the sale of your books is to engage in email correspondence with eminent people, harass them and then publish all manner of defamatory, libelous and abusive blogposts about them. Your son regularly does this, it seems, to extort money from them to delete the offensive material from his website.

One of the persons who you and your son Sanjeev  appears to have used this modus operandi on includes Baba Ramdev. After abusing Baba Ramdev as anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, a coward etc, your son accepted an invitation to speak at the Baba's ashram and changed his tack and overnight became his ardent devotee.

http://sabhlokcity.com/2012/10/my-position-on-baba-ramdev-to-clear-the-air-for-everyone/

I note on the said website you refer fairly often to Swami Dayanand's Satyarth Prakash.

I advise you that I am the direct descendant (my grandfather's grandfather) of Pandit Navin Chandra Roy of Lahore, the famous revolutionary, and Hindi Grammarian/scholar who is very widely acknowledged as Punjab's greatest litterateur of that period, and who wrote much this well very known revolutionary book for the Swami. Since you apparently follow the Arya Samaj's Vedic  school of thought, I am sure you would know that my ancestor who founded the Lahore Arya Samaj also initiated the Lion of the Punjab (Lala Lajpat Rai) - please read Lala's autobiography - and was responsible for Lala's revolutionary motivation. My ancestor was also responsible for and coordinated initially the famous revolutionary trio of Lal-Bal-Pal until his demise.

Upon the brutal attack on Lala Lajpat Rai to which he succumbed, the Hindustan Republican Association took root and escalated our freedom struggle to rid India of corrupt foreigners - by all means including violence. India Against Corruption is, and has always been, an initiative of Hindustan Republican Association, with a continuous and unbroken ideology (jahal matavadi) as distinguished from mavalis (or pseudo-revolutionaries).

As the picture is clear, I would therefore urge you to kindly advise your son to stop using my name to promote the sale of your books on your said website. It is pertinent that your son has published that he will not accept emails from me or correspond with me.

with best wishes

Sarbajit Roy
National Convenor
India Against Corruption, jan andolan


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RE: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

I agree fully.
C A TALWALKAR.


Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 23:04:41 -0800
From: dtralshawala@yahoo.com
To: majorgurjeet@gmail.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
CC: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

Major Gurjeet Singh has made a very valid and relevant point. However, there is a small amendment I would like to make. Hindi as we see and hear on DD and AIR is still predominantly having a Sanskrit flavour to it. Gandhiji had made a very valid observation in the 1930s-1940s, that to bind the country together in one single fabric it is necessary to have a common language. He suggested Hindustani. To illustrate, Hindustani was the language of 'Hindi' films like Waqt, Kanoon, and a host of Bollywood movies made upto the 1970s. I think we ought to interact more in Hindustani, which often passes of as Hindi.This note is just to make that little distinction.
 
Deepak Tralshawala 

--- On Fri, 2/1/13, Shehnaz.Tarapore@in.ey.com <Shehnaz.Tarapore@in.ey.com> wrote:

From: Shehnaz.Tarapore@in.ey.com <Shehnaz.Tarapore@in.ey.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: majorgurjeet@gmail.com
Cc: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net, indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Friday, February 1, 2013, 9:02 PM


Sorry to interrupt but I feel the need of Hindi tooo...

DO we all remember the Mangalore Air crash? A very small article was published in the news papers relating to the rescue operations reaching late... Reason being DIFFERENT MOTHER TONGUES on the check post......

Hindi is spoken every where.. Our Partners & Clients speak & learn Hindi first.

Warm Regards,

Shehnaz
Shehnaz Tarapore | FS - BAS| Secretary to Eric Anklesaria, Partner
 
Ernst & Young Private Limited
The Ruby, 29 Senapati Bapat Marg, Dadar (West), Mumbai 400 028, Maharashtra, India
Office: +91 22 6192 0000 | Fax: +91 22 6192 1000 | shehnaz.tarapore@in.ey.com
Direct: +91 22 6192 0541 | Cell: +91 9833 757441 | EY/Comm: 20541
Website: www.ey.com
To do the Right Thing is to do The Right Thing at any COST

 


From: majorgurjeet@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: 01/02/2013 08:56 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
Sent by: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net





Wow! Rina, Harpal & Col TT,

Good to hear nice views on the language issue.

Here is what I would like to add.
I have been in the Army for 21 years and traveled all over india. Commanded South indian troops (Madras Sappers) , now settled in US and have traveled to Africa, China, Europe, south America and many other places.

First observation is that we should be proud Indians and have one common language ie Hindi. So that as an Indian we don't feel outsider in south or east india.

Also we must learn English to communicate with the outside world. I can see how in US chinese people feel small due to Indian soft ware experts are good in English. One good thing done be Pt Nehru.

Learn at least one more foreign language eg French/Spanish/German etc to have a better reach in the world.

Local language or mother tounge is naturally learned at home but should be taught as third language so that kids can read and write easily.

More languages learned makes kids well rounded person and create /generate curiosity in them to learn other cultures which will make them smarter.

So cheers! Have fun. Learn more as its never enough.

Major Gurjeet Singh
-----Original Message-----
From: Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com>
Sender: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:21:02
To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Reply-To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh

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Re: [IAC#RG] Sarbajit Roy I ask you to apologise to Arvind Kejriwal for your endless, unsubstantiated allegations

Look Mr Navnith and other friends
Pl Stop weaving web of illusions for own  self unless this be your business I mean marketing ! 
CORRUTION IS NOT A POLITICAL MOUSE OR AN APPENDIX TO A SPECIFIC  PARTY AND YOU KNOW IT   It is an issue  of charcter and citizen grooming , of instilling idealism among youth ie direction in education , most importantly design of political system that controls our lives  and of nationalism.
What partisan rubbish are you spreading Just calling names which may well apply to most every where in this society . WHY DONT YOU APPLY YOUR ENERGY MEANINGFULLY AND SHOW SOME INTELLECTUAL CALIBRE BY COMING OUT WITH SUGGESTIONS!!
Most Indians are corrupt endemically I have sat on evaluating charcter where it is lifesource for survival -the military . Found 90 % Indians who are English educated provide the officer class are corrupt the higher the rank more corrupt most Generals are corrupt !! 90% COMMON VILLAGE FOLK who make the soldier HAVE good  CHARACTER BUT UNDER PRESSURE  TO ABANDONE  It is 90% educated and urban and 99%  politicians  WHO are 99% corrupt . Now you can divide the share of all to all parties.   Well I have a table not much different to a railway time table to fit Indians in their respective stations .
And what resistance are you putting up sitting on your keyboards ? I know of French Resistance , German Resistance etc never heard of Indians putting up any resistance ever to anything except to order, discipline and cleanliness and practicing tenets of Ashoka which we flaunt as our emblem but desecrate every minute  
THANK YOU 
chauhan
maj gen (rtd)
ertwhile chairman Army Appellant Board 
fought seat for Lok Sabha as Independent in 96 Gen Elections 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Sarbajit Roy I ask you to apologise to Arvind Kejriwal for your endless, unsubstantiated allegations

Dear Sarbajit,

 The aim of all these anti-corruption bodies is to expose the unprecedented corruption indulged by the present UPA government.Methods may vary,persons may be different,but aim is the same.Then why bicker against each other.By wasting time to expose each other we are losing our aim.Arvind may have done many sins in the past,but atleast he is exposing this Government's misdeeds.Why give so much importance to a discredited loose cannon like Diggy Singh who is a chaprasi of the corrupt dynasty.

As the old adage goes; a cat may be black or white,but it should catch rats.

Rgds

navnith

 

 


 

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:32:23 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: sabhlok@gmail.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; saveindiagroup@googlegroups.com
CC: ayush.das@gmail.com; somnath@bhartiassociates.com; psabhlok@hotmail.com; parivartan_india@rediffmail.com; vinayshan@gmail.com; freedom-team-of-india@googlegroups.com; aryav@sancharnet.in
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Sarbajit Roy I ask you to apologise to Arvind Kejriwal for your endless, unsubstantiated allegations

Dear Sanjeev

Firstly, I believe that the appropriate course of action for anyone who seeks to take up cudgels on Mr. Arvind's behalf would be for them to first respond with evidence to the 27 queries which Mr.Digvijaya Singh had publicly posed to Mr. Kejriwal on behalf of the public of India .

If you have chosen to forget them (collective amnesia) they are available here:-

http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in/questions-arvind-must-answer

These allegations are extremely serious. If anyone has to apologise, it should be Arvind Kejriwal to the nation and people of India.

Secondly, and I did not choose to bring this up earlier since I am a gentleman, the public of India is fed up with so many former public servants (including yourself) who descend from foreign skies scattering foreign (?) money (from unaccounted / carefully laundered sources) teaching / lecturing us about corruption and alternate governance/ economic systems.

Thirdly, I have read your book on Nehruvian socialism, and it is not well written (actually it is very poorly written) and your knowledge of economic systems (especially socialist systems) needs to be upgraded considerably. India is still a socialist country per the Constitution and your public allergy and libelous remarks about socialism betray your own anti-national leanings and agenda. Why did you leave the IAS BTW, and start working with the Australian Government ?

Fourthly, there is no question of my apologising to anybody for a blogpost you published on your website of an email I sent in response to your father when he mass-mailed me with yet another of Arvind's wild allegations (this time against Mukesh Ambani).

Fifthly, your blog/website is not a court of law. You are nobody to frame issues/charges or demand that I reply/apologise.  (And neither is Mr.Arvind Kejriwal for Mr.Mukesh Ambani).  Emails circulated privately between individuals do not constitute publication - and in fact I never gave my consent for you to publish them and I don't see what I have to apologise for.  If Mr.Arvind Kejriwal is aggrieved he can contact me directly instead of hiding under your petticoat and piddling from there. He is now a political figure and heads a political party and is up there rubbing shoulders with all the rape accused and murder accused of India whose alleged numbers in Parliament he enlightened us on.

Sixthly, insofar as one Mr. Kishore Asthana is concerned. I suppose you do know that he is ex-Tata Adminstrative Services and is directly affected by my statements concerning Tatas in this controversy which you ex-IITians have "engineered" to save Arvind's increasingly tattered reputation.

Seventhly, instead of my responding to your issues. Why don't you respond to mine ? Especially concerning role of foreign funding in people/NGOs seeking to interfere in India's governance.  This is known as LOBBYING and you seem to be such a person and should come clean about yourself.

In equity, I am publishing this email to various lists I am a subscriber of , alongwith the link to your blogposts for anyone else to interject on beyond your limited circle of cronies.

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm closing this matter now with the following blog post:
http://sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/sarbajit-roy-you-must-now-apologise-to-arvind-kejriwal-for-unsubstantiated-allegations/

Sarbajit, I'm afraid you've not proven your first four allegations, leave alone your innumerous other allegations. 

s

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Kishore Asthana <asthana1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Saneev,

I would be grateful if this meaningless dribble is not copied to me. 

Just discussing what Arvind did or Ayush said or Sarbajit feels is entirely meaningless. You yourself wrote to me some time back that we must not waste time in such discussions and act. It was a very sensible statement, but you appear to have forgotten it and embarked on a never-ending discussion with this gentleman.

All everyone in this dialogue appears to be doing is wasting words. If anyone has such a great compulsion to send emails, they would do well to discuss what their own plans are, what they want to do, how they want to do it and how it would improve India and desist from going on and on about what someone else is doing and why he is doing it and what is wrong with him.

Kindly remove my email address from this discussion. 

Best wishes,

Kishore Asthana

ps: The least people writing emails can do is change the subject line. I have not done so on purpose in this email - just to show how irrelevent it is to this irrelevent discussion.

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com>
Cc: Ayush Das <ayush.das@gmail.com>; Somnath Bharti <somnath@bhartiassociates.com>; Prem Sabhlok <psabhlok@hotmail.com>; Arvind Kejriwal <parivartan_india@rediffmail.com>; Kishore Asthana <asthana1@yahoo.com>; "vinayshan@gmail.com" <vinayshan@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 8:00 AM

Subject: Re: Interesting: Arvind Kejriwal's letter to Mukesh Ambani

Dear Sanjeev

This is a short and hurried reply to a rebuttal by Ayush Das to your blogpost "Explosive allegations against Arvind Kejriwal. I trust he will soon respond." I am sending this at your invite that I respond to Mr.Das.

http://sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/sarbajit-roy-please-respond-to-this-rebuttal-of-your-allegations-re-kejriwal/

Firstly, I cannot agree that the "allegations" against Arvind are "explosive". Numerous facts and charges against Arvind have been in the public domain for a very long time and some of these were again raised a few months back by Mr.Digvijaya Singh of the Congress Party. To which Arvind,  strangely,  never replied.

Secondly, I'm sure that even Arvind will agree that the IAC's interim reply to Mr. Digvijaya Singh, which Arvind could not acknowledge at the time due to his blossoming political compulsions and new sponsors, certainly blunted Mr.Singh's attack on him for the time being, and the IAC new team's own extensive credibility and media contacts ensured that IAC's counter-attacks on, say, Mr.Pulok Chatterji saved Arvind's skin when he was on the ropes. If Arvind disagrees he should publish his own reply to Mr.Singh's 27 queries otherwise it would be trivial for IAC to do so on his behalf even today.

Thirdly, it is a fact that till date Arvind does not have a single anti-corruption achievement to his credit. IAC does not count generating media publicity and rabble rousing over old and dead issues as achievements.

Fourthly, It is a fact that Arvind was caused to resign from the IRS in 2006. There is a long history as to why he did so which is not congruent with the carefully airbrushed version he puts out or is published in his Magsaysay award citation. I can say this as somebody who has known Arvind for over 10 years starting from our Delhi RTI Act days and initial meetings outside Ms. Shailja Chandra's chambers while waiting for our respective hearings.

Fifthly, It is a fact that Arvind and Manish have been accepting money from a wide range of sources  for their so called "social work". These include from various controversial corporate bodies like Tatas, Infosys etc. The media link which Mr.Das has provided is itself misleading. Whereas the headline claims that Mr. Narayan Murthy did not fund Arvind, the internal text makes it abundantly clear that Infosys through its CSR trusts (what are called as PACs in the USA) was in fact regularly financing Arvind's own trusts for many years. The same was true for the Tatas. The fact that such corporates paid Arvind's NGOs  such huge amounts - nearly a crore - (Arvind was then a serving IRS/I-T officer whose wife also was in the Serious Frauds Office which investigates such corporates) even 1 rupee makes it clear that they were either being blackmailed or had something to hide. The same goes for the dubious foreign awards regularly arranged for Arvind (by his high profile sponsors) which are well known as tax-free sources of finance for potential trouble makers to carry out the plans of the foreign donors. The phrase which springs to my mind, as its does to the minds of many other eminent patriotic people (please see the vigilonline website for the 2nd edn. of their  excellent book "NGOs, Activists and Foreign Funds"), in the context of these awards and dubious NGO entities is "he who pays the piper calls the tune". Another apt phrase would be "anti-national NGOs singing for their supper".

http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935&Itemid=99999999&limit=1&limitstart=6

Sixthly, I note that for whatever reasons there is a strong IIT alumnus movement (there are many IITians serving in the Govt as Arvind once did) which supports Arvind blindly or takes him at face value. Luckily I am not an IIT-ian and don't share your/their blind faith in his honesty or integrity. I think I have the right as an Indian citizen to freely express in what passes as a democracy my concerns about Arvind's brand of shallow activism, rabble rousing, distinct lack of actual achievement and his personal corruption.

Seventhly, I, like you, firmly oppose all forms of crony capitalism which have resulted in this out-dated and unproven long running fraud called Gandhian socialism / panchayati based rural model applied to urban India which Arvind is peddling as his economic vision for India.

Eightly, It is quite clear that Arvind and his camp had to leave IAC when the true extent of the corruption within his ranks began emerging. The initial probe proposed by them through Justice Verma fell through when even India's most high profile "rent an ex-judge" (who is in the pocket of Arvind's sponsors and incidentally also in one of the "accused"'s) declined to whitewash the public allegations against them. The same happened with the next round of ex-judges they tried to rope in. Finally they could only pick Admiral Ramdas (another receipent of fraud foreign awards which are used to reward anti-national persons especially those who have served their foreign masters while in power). The first action of this retd. Admiral was to make a 180 degree turn about what Arvind had publicly promised when he was still in the IAC. Now the AAP want a "complainant" to come forward with evidence on affidavit to prove the charges . Presumably exactly what Mr.Robert Vadra would expect from Arvind or Prashant !!!  It is clear thereby that Arvind is now just another politician who has abandoned his claim to be a corruption fighter, ie. if he ever was one !.

PS: If I have left out anything, I'll respond to that too.

Sarbajit

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit,

Waiting for your response to the key issues you initially raised against AK - and which are awaiting evidence. Then we'll come to the others, one by one. Let's all get to the bottom of this.

Regards
Sanjeev


On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sanjeev

We can go round and around these ancillary issues without reaching anywhere. But

1) I will give a response to Mr. Das for your blog.
2) Insofar as the other matters are concerned,

a) It is undeniable that Mr. Arvind Kejriwal, Mr. Shekhar Singh, Mr. Harsh Mander, Ms. Aruna Roy, Ms. Maja Daruwala etc and a host of other persons associated with the NCPRI are/were  massively foreign financed either directly or through organisations associated with them..
(Can anybody make the same charge against me - to the extent of even 1 rupee  ?)

In the case of Ms. Aruna Roy (who works so selflessly in the NAC not even taking 1 rupee as salary - which would make her a public servant liable under Official Secrets Act but nevertheless gets access to extraordinary amounts of information with Govt being a member of NAC) her organisation the SWRC Tilonia (which she piously claims she handed over to some illiterate villagers) gets huge funding (tens of crores each year) routed from dubious places like Tibet, Sierra Leone and USA. Her husband Mr. Bunker Roy's sources of finance are equally curious.
 
b) In the case of Mr. Shekhar Singh (Convenor NCPRI), there is a CIC decision where I accused him of spying on behalf of a foreign entity by misusing RTI. (By spying I mean contravention of Official Secrets Act by Indian citizens to obtain and transfer information to foreigners who are paying to receive such information). CCIC Mr.Habibullah although recording some of my allegations didn't allow the matter to proceed down my course of action but denied the information to Mr. Singh using some other grounds.

c) In the case of Arvind, his actions and sources of financing between the period of 2004 to 2008 will be very interesting - especially as he was a public servant for much of this time. I have many emails on this subject already in the public domain, but as Arvind is my co-participant in the anti-corruption movement I am not raking these up again.

d) In the case of Maja Daruwala (daughter of our First Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw) and Mr.Shekhar Singh, they and their junior associates represented some of the accused in the Navy War Room spying case in various proceedings. This is in public domain

All this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to anti-national activity of NCPRI where Arvind at some period in his development was an active participant. Now it seems he has come out of the spell they cast on him - and which I welcome.

Sarbajit


On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit

Thanks for this. Glad that the discussion has begun (please note all this will be published on my blog, once we have reached the final conclusion) for the matter is extremely important. I'm now waiting for your main mail to substantiate your allegations, and also defend yourself against the rebuttal by Ayush, who is, as far as I can see, a disinterested observer.

Also, given your new claims, I'd now like you to provide evidence for the following:

1. You now claim Arvind was undertaking "anti-Indian activities - spying - under NCPRI".
This is truly a serious claim. Please substantiate. Was he transferring state secrets to foreign powers? Did he harm India through RTI activity that sought information on corruption? What harm (if any) was caused India by such data supplied to foreign countries by Arvind? Have you or the police ever investigated such spying by Arvind? What was the result of such invesigation?

2. "Congress/UPA and Aruna Roy tried to hijack our movement (IAC) to keep the scam money flowing for the Congress and later she organised Sri Sri Ravisakar, Kirtan Bedia, Prashant Bhushan and a host of other "eminent" people to misguide the public of Delhi who were agitated with the information we were releasing"

You further state: "very action of his and Prashant Bhushan's is designed in such a way to ensure that nobody else can go after the culprits - who invariably manage to get away."

Now, I know Aruna Roy for many years (she may not recollect me but I have been to Tilonia, had many interactions at the LBSNAA with her and Bunker - when they were together). I've rarely come across a person of such pure intentions and commitment to India's disadvantaged, even though I may disagree with some of her philosophical foundations. I can't even imagine the kind of difficulties she has put herself through after joining the IAS, then resigning within just a year or so. Her whole life has been spent in villages. If she wanted, she could have been not just a governor or ambassador today, but possibly Prime Minister. But she chose the hard way - to reform India from the grassroots. By making such a statement you've now roped in not just Arvind but besmriched the great soul Aruna Roy who is (or at least was, till you wrote this) beyond reproach. I will now need substantial evidence on this assertion.

I trust all the points you've raised earlier, plus these new points, will be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Regards
Sanjeev


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ayush (and other friends on this thread),

Before I get into your points (in another post), perhaps it would help you to know where I am coming from.

As Sanjeev has pointed out, I did my Mechanical Engineering from BITS Pilani (batch of 1980 - passout in 1984). Thereafter, I have continuously practiced as an Engineer, whilst doing social work alongside. By God's design I was placed in certain situations which required me to quickly develop legal skills/knowledge at a very early age on both the criminal and civil side. I thereafter used my knowledge (in the 1980's and early 1990's) to help many poor people (pro bono) who I used to meet floating about in/outside courts to get their grievances redressed from the higher Indian judicial institutions.

In 2002+ We got the Delhi RTI Act. This is the time I came in contact with Arvind and his friends, waiting outside the office of Ms.Shailaja Chandra (IAS and former Chief Secretary of Delhi) who was the Chairperson of the Delhi Public Grievance Commission and also Appellate Authority of the Delhi RTI Act for our hearings.

Perhaps because of my personality, court manner, self evident public interest and precise drafting Ms. Shailaja Chandra always used to ensure I got information out of her officers, which I used to tremendous effect - silently without media publicity. The other people (mostly average Delhi citizens using RTI for the first time) including Arvind always used to get rammed by this lady who hardly ever gave them info and she used to pass all kinds of orders against them. Arvind then became leader/patron of what was known as "Delhi RTI Manch" - ie. all the people disgruntled by Ms Chandra and I attended a few of their meetings and advised them to change their approach but they refused to accept that they were wrong and Arvind kept instigating them - I realised then that Arvind is a "loser" and surrounds himself with losers. One of them, my friend Mr. Ravinder Balwani, was instigated to file a series of complaints alleging corruption against Ms Shailaja Chandra to the Lok Ayukt of Delhi, which she fought out and won eventually in the High Court.

Using the Delhi RTI Manch, Arvind came close to Mr. Shekhar Singh and Ms.Aruna Roy and became a member of the NCPRI. The NCPRI is basically a front for these 2 people and also Mr. Harsh Mander, and is a tremendously anti-national foreign financed group which has been very well exposed by Aruna Roy's IAS batchmate Dr. Krishen Kak in his book "NGOs, subversive activists and foreign funds" accessible online at the "vigilonline" website.

Arvind, who was very hard up then used to file RTIs himself or get RTIs filed on NCPRI's behalf through his network. I don't wish to comment at this time on the RTIs he was filing or their purpose or his other actions. Sufficeth to say that for his anti-Indian activities - spying - under NCPRI he was richly rewarded with 2 prizes - the Ashoka and the Magsaysay arranged by his handlers.

I have had a long running tiff with NCPRI (Arvind was too junior in NCPRI then) bigwigs as my/our RTI group the "Humjanenge" was a counter-force to NCPRI. In 2008 Humjanenge foresaw that the 2010 CommonWealth Gameswould be a great scandal/scam. Accordingly we started RTIing the bodies involved. We were taken to court by IOA and we won a tremendous victory in the High Court and info started flowing to us. This prompted a reaction by the Congress/UPA and Aruna Roy tried to hijack our movement (IAC) to keep the scam money flowing for the Congress and later she organised Sri Sri Ravisakar, Kirtan Bedia, Prashant Bhushan and a host of other "eminent" people to misguide the public of Delhi who were agitated with the information we were releasing, we withdrew at this stage but allowed the CWG scam movement to continue.

I won't comment on Anna Hazare and his role in IAC now, since we seem to have recently sorted out several matters (read about it on the IAC wikipedia page).

The present IAC is a very different operation from Arvind and Anna's time.

It would be very interesting to see how Arvind and his AAP operate/evolve. Till date I have not seen Arvind actually achieve anything against corruption except to make a big noise about it with stale information - usually obtained in RTI by someone else. Every action of his and Prashant Bhushan's is designed in such a way to ensure that nobody else can go after the culprits - who invariably manage to get away. This reinforces my opinion that either Arvind is still a "loser" or that he is corrupt.  I certainly don't want India to become a nation of losers if we go down Arvind's path.

Therefore, unlike most people, I prefer to keep my opinion on Arvind's honesty,  integrity and effectiveness open.

Sarbajit

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Ayush Das <ayush.das@gmail.com> wrote:

I have no allegiances to any org, NGO or party. I am just a common
citizen who will support anybody who works for the nation. I
admire Kejriwal's work and character immensely.

I also like Sanjeev sir's work - and hope to see more of him in future.
If indeed India can achieve a per capita of $14K as envisioned by him
- it would completely transform our country, allow us to solve a lot of
problems and would earn us immense respect & power on the Global
scene.

I have lost faith in Anna & IAC completely and won't EVER support them,
unless absolutely required to get something good done.


AD



On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear AD

Given my comments policy I can't disclose your details to Sarbajit. You may, if you wish, answer his question/s directly. Pl. copy me in if you choose to respond.

Regards
Sanjeev

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Date: 2013/1/27
Subject: Re: Interesting: Arvind Kejriwal's letter to Mukesh Ambani
To: Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com>


Dear Sanjeev

Thanks for your email.

Let me clarify that Arvind and I have known each other since our Delhi RTI Act 2001 / Delhi RTI Munch days since about 2003 and we have always been very civil to each other when we meet. We (ie AK and I) both acknowledge each other's determination to do something for the nation notwithstanding that our paths, tactics, strategies, economic policies, (and choice of friends/associates) may be (very) different.

I would certainly respond to AD's rebuttal - in considerable detail. It would help me to know who the person (AD) and their NGO ("FTI") is so that my reply would be directly on his/her points.

Sarbajit











--
sanjeev sabhlok
About me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok
Blog: http://sabhlokcity.com/
http://freedomteam.in
Skypeid: sanjeevsabhlok






--
sanjeev sabhlok
About me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok
Blog: http://sabhlokcity.com/
http://freedomteam.in
Skypeid: sanjeevsabhlok


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