Re: [IAC#RG] RTI reply about afzal guru and kasab

I think capital punishment was not the answer to Afzal Guru's treachery. Any  action taken should fulfil its objective.

Aruna Jethwani 

2013/4/6 Vijay Verma <vijay.pti@gmail.com>

एक दहेज़ सम्बन्धी कंसल्टेंसी सेवा होनी चाहिए जिससे उन महानुभावों को जिनको दहेज़ लेने और देने में कोई संकोच नहीं है उन्हें किसी तरह की असुविधा न हो, ऐसे लोग सिर्फ अपनी जरुरत के बारे में अवगत कराये और कंसल्टेंसी सेवा उसको समाज के लोगो तक पंहुचा दें जिससे उन्हें अपनी औकात के मुताबिक उनके जैसे सगे सम्बन्धी आसानी से मिल जाये, और उन भले लोगों को भी ऐसे लोगों के घर जाने का दुर्भाग्य प्राप्त न करना पड़े जिससे दहेजियो का समय और चाय पानी बर्बाद न हो, और अपनी इन्वेस्टमेंट (लड़के) की उचित डील करने का भरपूर मौका मिल सके ! लड़की वाला भी अपनी लड़की को जैसे बार्बी डॉल, जीन्स, मोबाइल और अन्य  महँगी से महँगी चीज़े दिलाता है उसी तरह महंगे से महंगा दूल्हा भी ख़रीद पायेगा और इधर उधर भटकने की बजाय सीधे अपनी हैसियत के शोरूम पहुँच पायेगा (ऐसे  लोगों को ऑनलाइन शोपिंग की आदत होती है इस लिए ये सुविधा इनके बहुत काम की सिद्ध होगी) और बेचारे उन लड़की वालों को भी बाइपास का रास्ता मिल जायेगा, जो ऐसी डील करने में विश्वास नहीं करते उन्हें नाम से ही पता चल जायेगा कि यहाँ रिश्तेदार नहीं व्यापारी मिलेगे जो अपने लड़के की पढाई - लिखाई और खिलाई के दाम चाहते है और साथ में घर में रहने के बदले काम करने वाली एक पराई लड़की जिसे वो तभी तक इज्जत देंगे जब तक उनका घर भरती रहेगी !  

वैसे तो समाज में ये काम पहले भी कई  लोग तरह तरह से करते रहे है लेकिन अब इन्टरनेट के जमाने में सोशल मीडिया का अच्छा इस्तेमाल हो सकता है ! अतः आप से प्रार्थना है की फेसबुक का इस्तेमाल सिर्फ लाइक और शेयर करने में न करके ऐसे लोगों को समाज में बेनकाब करने में करें जो इन सामाजिक बुराइयों के पक्षधर है ! 

धन्यवाद !

On 6 April 2013 12:27, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:

Sir,
What is the object of such enquiries?
In this case sentence  was passed and confirmed by the highest court and mercy petition remained with President for a long time.
Let us use RTI  to prevent/expose corruption for which this forum stands.
Gaur
 

---

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 19:43:23 +0530
From: rupeshgarg20@gmail.com

To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] RTI reply about afzal guru and kasab

This kind of reply is very much shocking to hear...

Rupesh
9160002744

http://rupeshkgarg.blogspot.com/
http://www.artofliving.org

M. K. Gandhi - ""Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:15 PM, punenagrikmanch . <punenagrikmanch@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All,

I had filed the RTI application to Home ministry of india, i had asked
below questions,

1) please share the evidence of hanging and also please share the
letter photocopy which communicated to his family before or after
hanging.

but as per Home ministry : NO such information maintened and availabe centrally.

and the execution is carried out by the state govt/UT


i am suprised , how the info is not avaibale with Home ministry.


Regards

Madhukar Mazire

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Re: [IAC#RG] IAC is a secular / socialist / apolitical anti-corruption movement of Indians

बुर्कों व घुंघटों के देश में
इसी माह मुझे कुछ प्रमुख नागरिकों द्वारा इंडिया इंटरनेशनल सेंटर में आयोजित एवं अप्रत्यक्ष रूप से बाबा रामदेव द्वारा समर्थित एवं सहभागित 'नेशन बिल्डिंग मीट' जिसमें देश भर के चुनींदा 150-160 प्रबुद्ध जनों, शिक्षाविदों, समाजसेवियों, नौकरशाहों, न्यायमूर्तियों, राजनेताओं, उद्योग व व्यापार समूहों से जुड़े लोगों ने जो देश में व्यवस्था परिवर्तन का व सुशासन का सपना लेकर जुटे थे, में मुझे भी शामिल होने का मौका मिला, परंतु वे न तो कुछ सार्थक विचार दे पाये और न ही कोई कार्य योजना।
मैंने मौलिक भारत के नीति पत्र व कार्य योजना का मुझे मिले पाँच मिनट में संक्षिप्त परिचय कराया तो अनेक लोग चोैक गए। किन्तु आयोजकों के अपने 'निहित ऐजेंडो' के कारण एक सार्थक पहल की संभावनाएं क्षीण हो गई। मुझे सभी सहभागियों के विचारों में अपनी डफ ली अपना राग, अपनी कहानी, अपनी बात ज्यादा लगी। सार्थक व्यवस्थित व क्षैशिक विमर्श का उद्देश्य शायद आयोजकों का था ही नहीं। अपनी बात रखते हुए मैनें सबसे पूछा कि आप लोगों के पास अपने विचारों व सुझावों को मूर्तरूप में लाने की क्या कार्य योजना हैं? जिन सुधारों को लागू करने की बात कर रहे हैं, उसके लिए सरकारी मशीनरी के सार्थक उपयोग की रणनीति क्या है? अगर संघर्ष अथवा आंदोलन के द्वारा राजनीतिक परिवर्तन करने हैं तो संगठन का स्वरूप एवं आंदोलन की कार्य योजना क्या हो? क्या हमारे पास पंचायतों से लेकर केन्द्र तक सुधार, परिवर्तनों व बदलावों को कर सकने वाला 'नेतृत्वÓ है? क्या हमारे पास वैकल्पिक नीतियों का नक्शा व वैकल्पिक नेतृत्व को विकसित करने की कार्य योजना है? तो उत्तर नदारद था। मुझे अधिकांश सहभागी तेजहीन व काफी उम्रदराज लगे। ऐसे लोग जो 'पोस्ट रिटायरमेंटÓ के बाद सत्ता की चाशनी बिना किसी खास मेहनत के चखने को तैयार हैं। इस बुर्जुआ वर्ग ने देश की प्रतिभाओं व सम्पत्तियों की निकासी के कुचक्रको रोकने की चर्चा भी नहीं की।
शायद देश की समस्या ही यहीं हैे, यहाँ नेतृत्व के लिए तो लोग प्रस्तुत हैं, किन्तु संघर्ष, जन जागरण व जनसहभागिता बढ़ाने के लिए कोई नहीं। देश मात्र 65 वर्ष पूर्व ही गुलामी से मुक्त हुआ है और अभी भी सत्तालोलुपों के कब्जे में है। पिछले एक हजार वर्षों की गुलामी की मानसिकता अभी तक हमारे मन मस्तिष्क पर हावी है। हमारी आक्रामकता, सच कहने की क्षमता, विरोध करने का माद्दा एवं सृजनशीलता सभी कुंद हो गए हैं। विदेशी आक्रमणकारियों के अत्याचारों से बचने के लिए हमारे बिखरे देश ने अपनी नारियों को नकाबों व घूंघटों से ढंक दिया और अपने दिमाग के दरवाजों को पाट दिया। कुंद मानसिकता ने देश को बांटा व भीरू बना दिया। हमने उपनिषदों व वेदों की जगह पुराणों की दंतकथाओं और चमत्कारों के सहारे जीवन जीना शुरू कर दिया और रक्षात्मक मानसिकता को अपनाते हुए अस्तित्व की रक्षा को प्राथमिक मान अपने अस्मिता व स्वाभिमान से समझौता कर बैठे। आत्मसंघर्ष के पिछले एक हजार वर्षों ने हमारी पराक्रम की मानसिकता को परिक्रमा की आदत में बदल दिया। हम शीर्ष पर बैठे अयोग्य लोगों की परिक्रमा कर कुछ कृपा पाने की मानसिकता का शिकार है, मुगल सल्तनत एवं ब्रिटिश शासकों ने हमारी कमजोरियों को पहचाना और उन पर चोट की। हमारी अकूत धन व ज्ञान सम्पदा को लूटा और भारत में फैले विशाल शिक्षा व धार्मिक तंत्र को नष्ट और भ्रष्ट कर दिया। यह काल अपनी संस्कृ ति व शिक्षा थोपने व वफ ादारों, चमचों व चापलूस भारतीयों को प्रश्रय देने में मुगल सल्तनत व अंग्रेजी शासकों ने लगाया। दु:खद यह रहा कि आजादी के बाद के युग में हमारे राजनीतिक दल इसी मानसिकता का शिकार हो गए और देश में जिन प्रकार के परिवर्तनों का वातावरण बनाया जाना था वह बन ही नहीं सका।
हमारे देश की समस्याओं की जड़ में मुगल सल्तनत व ब्रिटिश राजव्यवस्था व कार्य प्रणालियों को अभी तक बरकरार रखने की जिद और बांटो और राज करो की राजनीतिज्ञों की मानसिकता है। हमारे नौकरशाह, न्यायमूर्ति, वरिष्ठ राजनेता, उद्योग व व्यापार से जुड़े लोग एवं बहुत से समाजसेवी सभी ब्रिटिश-अमेरिकी व्यवस्था के अनुरूप देश को संचालित करते रहे हैं और देश की मूल समस्याओं व मर्म से उनका नाता टूट चुका है। इन लोगों से व्यवस्था परिवर्तन की आशा व्यर्थ है। वे पाश्चात्य चश्मे से देश को देखते हैं और उसी अनुरूप इलाज करते हैं। वे मात्र सुशासन चाहते हैं, नीतिगत परिवर्तन नहीं। पिछले दो सौ वर्षों में देश की जनता को इन लोगों ने 'व्यापक रूपान्तरÓ के दलदल में धकेल कर खासा प्रताडि़त किया है किन्तु अभी भी भारत के 80-90 प्रतिशत लोग अपनी भारतीयता से जुड़े हुए हैं। यह भारतीयता ही हमारा 'सत्वÓ है। इसके अनुरूप ही राजव्यवस्था व शासन का नया नक्शा राजनीतिक दलों को बनाना पड़ेगा। पाश्चात्य की कितनी मात्रा जरूरी है, यह भी निर्धारित करना होगा। देश में अन्तर्विरोध, आक्रोश व जनांदोलनों की वजह भी यही है। पाश्चात्य मानसिकता वाले शासकों का यह अंतिम दौर है और वे अपने अस्तित्व के अंतिम पड़ाव पर हैं। इनके दिये की लौ बुझने से पहले भड़-भड़ा रही है और वे भ्रम का जाल बिछाये रखने की पूरी कोशिशों में है। आवश्यकता है एकजुट होने की व रहने की। आक्रामक संघर्ष व सशक्त विकल्प के साथ अगर लगा जाए तो इनका भरभरा चुका किला ढहाया जा सकता है और हम बना सकते हैं अपना मौलिक भारत।

अनुज अग्रवाल
संपादक

---------------------------
Anuj Agarwal
Editor : Dialogue India
Website : www.dialogueindia.in
Mob. : 9811424443

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear IAC subscribers

With reference to some recent emails whereby a small set of persons attempted to hijack an anti-corruption discussion by reducing it to a debate on Feroze Gandhi's antecedents, I wish to unequivocally state as follows:-

1) India Against Corruption "IAC" is a secular + socialist + apolitical anti-corruption movement of Indians by Indians for Indians.

2) That the IAC is committed to take forward the vision and existing manifestos of the Hindustan Republican Association/Army whose leaders and members from all religions were prepared to lay down their lives for an India free of imperialism so as to bring genuine direct democracy to  its citizens.

3) That the existing political scheme for democracy established after Independence by the Executive Rules prescribed under the Representation of the Peoples Act is a fraud which has only served to perpetuate imperialism so that India's resources continue to be siphoned outside by its rulers.

4) That all rulers of India, whether Congress or BJP, are equally puppets of a secret international order/fraternity to keep the Indian nation subservient and a perpetual client state to foreigners. The only exception Late Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri, an HRA member, was murdered to prevent him taking India out of their fold.

5) That the entire noble purpose of religion in India is being misused by agents of this order to hijack the free discussion and dissemination of information which has the potential to disturb / overturn this order which is so deeply entrenched in India and inter-woven into Indian culture/ethos that it is wrongly identified as Indian or even at times as India itself.

6) That every person who has served in Government knows that things are not done for merit but for other considerations  For instance, deserving candidates are not promoted / posted so that mediocre pliable persons who pledge allegiance to the order (which has many names and faces and agents) are posted in their place. The entire Govt structure has been deliberately made highly pyramidal so that only pliable and corrupt persons always control the levers of power on behalf of those vampires who lurk in the shadows sucking our blood.

7) That all the so-called anti-corruption movements / leaders which have come so far (and which shall come in the future) are agents and proxies of the order. The defining characteristics of these movements are as follows:-

a) They are charismatic movements based around a "good" individual or set of "honest/eminent" individuals who shall allegedly sort out all of India's problems with their magic wand. The promised magic never happens (it was all a trick anyway) and the loot continues.

b) No transparency or openness in functioning. Everything is managed and arranged, all that the citizens have to do is show up for the party. Citizens are not allowed to speak and if they do they are shouted out/down.

c) Heavy involvement of former babus in these movements, all reporting back to HeadQuarters.

d) A false promise invariably made every 5 years that participation in elections by "good people" shall bring about change. That things like "Right to reject" and "Right to recall" (as redefined by them from what HRA originally proposed in its manifesto in 1924) shall help achieve this.

e) A commitment to satyagraha / ahimsa / non-violence / Gandhi-ism /reform etc. to keep the citizenry docile, sedated and tranquilised so that their blood can be continually sucked. To which stand HRA responds "laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahin mante"

and so on

Sarbajit
National Convenor
India Against Corruption

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Re: [IAC#RG] The inside job

Dear Sarabjit,

Greetings.

Your narration of history was captivating, while replying to Mr. Ahmed. In order to assess IAC/HMS, I tried to profile Savarkar into it.

Savarkar met Dr. Kesav Baliram Hedgevar in about March 1925 at Damle ji's residence at Shirgaon. KBH formed RSS on Dusshera, 1925. Savarkar never joined RSS.

My only interest in raising Savarkar issue was two fold:

*Savarkar actively encouraged reconversion of former Hindu adherents to Hinduism. He did so in Andaman prison and also later while out of prison.

*Gandhi Assassination aftermath affected both HMS & RSS with 25000 arrests during Feb 1 to 10. Savarkar was defended in this case by Advocate Bhopatkar of HMS. Approver Digmber Badge stated that on 14-01-1948 'Tatyaa-raav (Savarkar) ordered Apted to Finish off Gandhi, Nehru & Suhravardi. > How come IAC's plan could have been leaked by RSS?

Best regards,

Joshi NM

On 6 April 2013 23:30, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Naishadh

Greetings

Of course you may know better, but its news to me that Savarkar (HMS) was formally in the Sangh or agreed to Sangh in 1925 when he was just out of jail and confined to Ratnagiri and had lost interest in freedom struggle.

Hedgewar was in HMS but Savarkar was not in RSS.  In any case, why drag Savarkar into this discussion / Gandhi_conspiracy all over again when he was acquitted. He was only charged due to the approver Badge.

So RSS is different from Savarkar,and their decision to save Nehru was not constrained by Savarkar's pardon by the duo. There are always traitors (and heroes) in every movement.

Actually Wikipedia has this to say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_India#Activities_during_partition

"Noted Gandhian and recipient of the highest civilian award in India, Bharat Ratna, Dr. Bhagwan Das commended the role of the "high-spirited and self-sacrificing boys" of the RSS in protecting the newly formed Republic of India, from a planned coup to topple the Jawaharlal Nehru Administration in Delhi^[36][37]"

1. ^ Anthony Elenjimittam, Philosophy and action of the R. S. S for the Hind Swaraj, Published by Laxmi Publications, 1951, page 172
2. ^ Om Prakash Ralhan, Encyclopedia of political parties, Published by Anmol Publications PVT. LTD., 2002 ISBN 81-7488-865-9, page 224

Another thing we must understand was that Savarkar was 40 years behind Bengal when it came to defining Hindutva for violence. Sri Aurobindo (Jugantar) Ghosh's grandfather RajNarayan Bose had already published it in 1870(?).

So the only issue really is, if not BJP or Congress or if not Rahul or NaMo then who ??? :-).

In every "C" grade Hindi movie the hot item scene is always "ladkiyon ki ladaai", so Sonia versus Sushma would bring in the TRPs for Rajat Sharma and keep the allies in their respective formations.  NaMo can stay at "Home" like LKA.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sarabjit,

Good going. Keep it up.

Share more on Dr. Headgevar meeting Savarkar in 1925 to form RSS  and to take head-on Jinna and Muslim league.

Savarkar was also against Gandhi, Nehru, Congress and ML. The duo had declined to sign petition for reprieve to Savarkar. He was accused in Gandhi's assassination which he and Godse denied but Nehru, Morarji were pursuing to prove.

How and why then RSS would save Nehru?
Hindu Mahasabha had at that time good following in Bengal. Savarkar though not in politics due to his undertaking to British Raj was the prime force to challenge Congress.

How Hindu Mahasabha, RSS and IAC converged with common agenda and not being averse to violence yet all got banned while as you alleged Nehru was saved by a leak?

Best Regards.

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Best Regards,
-Joshi NM

Re: [IAC#RG] The inside job

Dear Naishadh

Greetings

Of course you may know better, but its news to me that Savarkar (HMS) was formally in the Sangh or agreed to Sangh in 1925 when he was just out of jail and confined to Ratnagiri and had lost interest in freedom struggle.

Hedgewar was in HMS but Savarkar was not in RSS.  In any case, why drag Savarkar into this discussion / Gandhi_conspiracy all over again when he was acquitted. He was only charged due to the approver Badge.

So RSS is different from Savarkar,and their decision to save Nehru was not constrained by Savarkar's pardon by the duo. There are always traitors (and heroes) in every movement.

Actually Wikipedia has this to say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_India#Activities_during_partition

"Noted Gandhian and recipient of the highest civilian award in India, Bharat Ratna, Dr. Bhagwan Das commended the role of the "high-spirited and self-sacrificing boys" of the RSS in protecting the newly formed Republic of India, from a planned coup to topple the Jawaharlal Nehru Administration in Delhi^[36][37]"

1. ^ Anthony Elenjimittam, Philosophy and action of the R. S. S for the Hind Swaraj, Published by Laxmi Publications, 1951, page 172
2. ^ Om Prakash Ralhan, Encyclopedia of political parties, Published by Anmol Publications PVT. LTD., 2002 ISBN 81-7488-865-9, page 224

Another thing we must understand was that Savarkar was 40 years behind Bengal when it came to defining Hindutva for violence. Sri Aurobindo (Jugantar) Ghosh's grandfather RajNarayan Bose had already published it in 1870(?).

So the only issue really is, if not BJP or Congress or if not Rahul or NaMo then who ??? :-).

In every "C" grade Hindi movie the hot item scene is always "ladkiyon ki ladaai", so Sonia versus Sushma would bring in the TRPs for Rajat Sharma and keep the allies in their respective formations.  NaMo can stay at "Home" like LKA.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sarabjit,

Good going. Keep it up.

Share more on Dr. Headgevar meeting Savarkar in 1925 to form RSS  and to take head-on Jinna and Muslim league.

Savarkar was also against Gandhi, Nehru, Congress and ML. The duo had declined to sign petition for reprieve to Savarkar. He was accused in Gandhi's assassination which he and Godse denied but Nehru, Morarji were pursuing to prove.

How and why then RSS would save Nehru?
Hindu Mahasabha had at that time good following in Bengal. Savarkar though not in politics due to his undertaking to British Raj was the prime force to challenge Congress.

How Hindu Mahasabha, RSS and IAC converged with common agenda and not being averse to violence yet all got banned while as you alleged Nehru was saved by a leak?

Best Regards.

Re: [IAC#RG] [issuesonline_worldwide] Re: The inside job

Unfortunate to see the hidden agenda under the mask of anti corruption. This itself is the biggest corruption. Religion which is created by men to divide society being given such importance even now no doubt be considered as mean minded approach. Nehru family a highly placed hindu family for generation followed the right path to consider people as human being and not as muslims, Hidus, christians, parsis etc and is the main reason why that family even today is the most respected family in india. We are making a mockery of ourselves by talking like this. Have we exhausted all points against corruption?
Balu
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

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Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] [issuesonline_worldwide] Re: The inside job

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Re: [IAC#RG] The inside job

Dear Sarabjit,

Good going. Keep it up.

Share more on Dr. Headgevar meeting Savarkar in 1925 to form RSS  and to take head-on Jinna and Muslim league.

Savarkar was also against Gandhi, Nehru, Congress and ML. The duo had declined to sign petition for reprieve to Savarkar. He was accused in Gandhi's assassination which he and Godse denied but Nehru, Morarji were pursuing to prove.

How and why then RSS would save Nehru?
Hindu Mahasabha had at that time good following in Bengal. Savarkar though not in politics due to his undertaking to British Raj was the prime force to challenge Congress.

How Hindu Mahasabha, RSS and IAC converged with common agenda and not being averse to violence yet all got banned while as you alleged Nehru was saved by a leak?

Best Regards.

On Apr 6, 2013 8:43 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr. Ahmad

We can fully  understand your confusion about IAC and Sangh. But I am very confused myself to learn that you are a Sanghi ("my fellow Sanghis").

The present IAC is a movement associated with Hindustan Republican Association (a secular nationalist movement in Central India) which in turn was derived from / closely associated with the "Anushilan Samiti" and the "Jugantar" which were Hindu "Bengal terrorist" organisations which came up after the Partition of Bengal in 1905.

The HRA is a secular MONOTHEISTIC movement which believed in a formless God (immaterial if he is called Allah or any by other name in any language) and was absolutely against idol worship and caste etc. Hence HRA is different from Jugantar since HRA had Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs etc. united to use violent means to free India from foreign yoke.  (I hope you are with me so far).

The founder of RSS Dr. Hedgewar had been closely associated with Jugantar. He was then also associated with HRA. In 1924 HRA's manifesto and other papers were drawn up. Hedgewar took them to Maharashtra (or what is now in Maharashtra) and started spreading HRA's ideology there.  RSS (Sangh) was formed in 1925 based on HRA's documents, Charter etc.

However, due to Dr. Hedgewar's personality and background the only persons he could attract to his cause then were lower/middle class Maharashtrian Brahmins like himself as Muslims shunned him. RSS frequently came in conflict with HRA's other groups in Maharashtra operated under Prarthana Samaj which was strictly for a monotheistic/formless/secular God etc. In retaliation RSS evolved into a body which promoted the lower worship (as per Hinduism) of God through Idols and Imagery along with temples and deference to priests, babas etc etc . for the lower classes. At this point HRA and RSS split irrevocably.

After Dr.Hedgewar, his successor Guruji Golwalkar of course propagated the 2 nation theory along with the British spy/traitor Mohandas Gandhi which HRA always opposed. RSS and Congress have always been 2 sides of the same false coin saying one thing and doing another.

HRA was going to topple Nehru in 1947 through violent means but the RSS leaked the plan and saved him. In retaliation, some monotheistic savarna (ie high caste) RSS members sympathetic to HRA left RSS and assassinated Gandhi.

So I hope that you now have a better clarity into whether this IAC (and also its Indiaresists) is a Sanghi outfit or not. I can also freely say that for a period of 2 years from Nov 2010 till Sep. 2012 there were many Sanghis moving about as IAC persons. It was a tactical mistake on part of  HRA's leaders  to associate with them because they mostly  turned out to be money minded scoundrels.

Incidentally, I myself have nothing to do with either RSS or HRA or any other political ideology whatsoever and that includes Congress, BJP, AAP, Left etc who I think are all corrupt 'haramis'.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:58 PM, faraz ahmad <faraz_asha@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Chaturvedi,

I would have ignored all this if the IAC were not pretending to be something else. Frankly I all along suspected the antecedents of this IAC and now the the new one Indiaresists. The Sanghis have a penchant for creating new organisations every other day. I just wanted to put on record that the Sanghi canard being spread is nothing new to me. I have been hearing this drivel since my childhood from my fellow Sanghis in the Timarpur babu colony where I spent 16 years from early childhood to adulthood

Faraz   

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Re: [IAC#RG] The inside job

Dear Mr. Ahmad

We can fully  understand your confusion about IAC and Sangh. But I am very confused myself to learn that you are a Sanghi ("my fellow Sanghis").

The present IAC is a movement associated with Hindustan Republican Association (a secular nationalist movement in Central India) which in turn was derived from / closely associated with the "Anushilan Samiti" and the "Jugantar" which were Hindu "Bengal terrorist" organisations which came up after the Partition of Bengal in 1905.

The HRA is a secular MONOTHEISTIC movement which believed in a formless God (immaterial if he is called Allah or any by other name in any language) and was absolutely against idol worship and caste etc. Hence HRA is different from Jugantar since HRA had Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs etc. united to use violent means to free India from foreign yoke.  (I hope you are with me so far).

The founder of RSS Dr. Hedgewar had been closely associated with Jugantar. He was then also associated with HRA. In 1924 HRA's manifesto and other papers were drawn up. Hedgewar took them to Maharashtra (or what is now in Maharashtra) and started spreading HRA's ideology there.  RSS (Sangh) was formed in 1925 based on HRA's documents, Charter etc.

However, due to Dr. Hedgewar's personality and background the only persons he could attract to his cause then were lower/middle class Maharashtrian Brahmins like himself as Muslims shunned him. RSS frequently came in conflict with HRA's other groups in Maharashtra operated under Prarthana Samaj which was strictly for a monotheistic/formless/secular God etc. In retaliation RSS evolved into a body which promoted the lower worship (as per Hinduism) of God through Idols and Imagery along with temples and deference to priests, babas etc etc . for the lower classes. At this point HRA and RSS split irrevocably.

After Dr.Hedgewar, his successor Guruji Golwalkar of course propagated the 2 nation theory along with the British spy/traitor Mohandas Gandhi which HRA always opposed. RSS and Congress have always been 2 sides of the same false coin saying one thing and doing another.

HRA was going to topple Nehru in 1947 through violent means but the RSS leaked the plan and saved him. In retaliation, some monotheistic savarna (ie high caste) RSS members sympathetic to HRA left RSS and assassinated Gandhi.

So I hope that you now have a better clarity into whether this IAC (and also its Indiaresists) is a Sanghi outfit or not. I can also freely say that for a period of 2 years from Nov 2010 till Sep. 2012 there were many Sanghis moving about as IAC persons. It was a tactical mistake on part of  HRA's leaders  to associate with them because they mostly  turned out to be money minded scoundrels.

Incidentally, I myself have nothing to do with either RSS or HRA or any other political ideology whatsoever and that includes Congress, BJP, AAP, Left etc who I think are all corrupt 'haramis'.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:58 PM, faraz ahmad <faraz_asha@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Chaturvedi,

I would have ignored all this if the IAC were not pretending to be something else. Frankly I all along suspected the antecedents of this IAC and now the the new one Indiaresists. The Sanghis have a penchant for creating new organisations every other day. I just wanted to put on record that the Sanghi canard being spread is nothing new to me. I have been hearing this drivel since my childhood from my fellow Sanghis in the Timarpur babu colony where I spent 16 years from early childhood to adulthood

Faraz   

Re: [IAC#RG] Fw: Forget Gujarat: Look at the Congress Record: It is Shocking

Hello Suresh,
Greetings.

Thanks for sharing your views on paid media.

I enjoy discussions and sharing on IAC as an open platform for unrestrained (free) expression amongst adults from different walks of life in India. I especially enjoy crusade that Sarabjit singlehandedly carrying on at IAC. HE IS doing a good job in facilitating diverse views on diverse subjects on common interest to all countrymen. Difference of approach, expression or views is most expected and is to be tolerated.

Only important aspect as I understand is to share one's views and not to bully others in accepting one's hypothesis.

Best regards.
-Joshi NM

On Apr 6, 2013 8:02 PM, "Suresh Chiplunkar" <suresh.chiplunkar@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone remember who the chief minister of Maharashtra was during Mumbai riots which were no less deadly than the Gujarat riots of 2002? Does anyone recall the name of the chief minister of UP during Malliana and Meerut riots or Bihar CM when the Bhagalpur or Jamshedpur riots under Congress regimes took place? Do we hear the names of earlier chief ministers of Gujarat under whose charge hundreds of riots took place in post-Independence India? Some of these riots were far more deadly than the 2002 outburst.  The state used to explode into violence every second month? Does anyone remember who was in-charge of Delhi's security when the 1984 massacre of Sikhs took place in the capital of India How come Narendra Modi has been singled out as Devil Incarnate as if he personally carried out all the killings during the riots of 2002? So, This is only very "systematically"  Media BULLSHIT against NaMo .

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sarabjit,

Greetings.

Thanks for your views. your views are intellectually appealing and, therefore, I agree with you on some of the points.

The moot point in public administration in Gujarat is: Except Godhra incidence, Curfew was never required in Gujarat.

Congress lost public favour in Gujarat elections because of its policy of sponsored killings in Gujarat. It has never gained electoral favor in ascending to power till date.

Local politics like Keshubhai Patel factor etc. contributed in reducing vote share of BJP in Gujarat.

In general, Gujarat public administration had a fresh outlook giving fair living to people of all community in the state since 2003. Everyone has prospered. Education, women empowering, rural development, roads/infrastructure, electricity-water is improving noticeably.

Congress adopted minority appeasing KHAM theory during Madhavsinh Solanki rule. [KHAM=Kshatriy, Harijan, pAtel, Muslim] http://www.jagran.com/news/national-kham-theory-of-congress-for-gujarat-9283908.html 

Agricultural Tenancy Act was ruthlessly and unfairly enforced in Gujarat. ULC Act was also thrust down on peoplen most corrupt manner. That's why people in Gujarat do not pupularly favour congress.

At the national level, Congress is enslaved by SG. Minus SG, what is left of Congress? Shall we reply on Digvijays? or Congress Leader & Spokesperson, Senior Advocate Abhishek Manu Singhvi? 

What is the alternative for National Politics, apart from state level leaders?

Best Regards,

Joshi NM

On 6 April 2013 17:07, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Naishadh

The problem with data is that it can be interpreted in different ways.

"Modi Govt. never imposed curfew in his rule. Difference is clear like Day-Nite."

This proves that NaMO is either a SOFT leader or that he actively encouraged the massacre of Muslims in 2002.

Why did the Gujarat riots go on for 2+ months ? Even the 1984 Sikh riots were over in under a week. In Delhi it was over in 4 days the moment they imposed curfew (despite not having a PM) and calling in the Army

In the 1983 Nellie (Assam) massacres where you did your comparison, it was over in 6 hours, so what could the Congis have done in a remote district in a State which has always been under the paramilitary forces like Assam Rifles and where the Hindu-Muslim ratio is far different from Gujarat being 50:50 or worse.

The fact of the matter is that Modi may be very good at allowing Gujaratis to make money, but when it comes to INDIA he has no track record of performance (where the only like person he scores over on this account is Raul Vinci who is a big ZERO).

Also, I hope you notice that BJP's vote share in Gujarat has been continually slipping since 2002 and Congress is picking up more and more Muslim votes there.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com> wrote:

Maj. Gen. (Retd) Deepak Malhotra has made valuable data available. I thank him for a very useful tabulated data compilation.

Analysis and conclusion is apparent and obvious.

Compilation was focused on the ability of state to prevent riots and perform RAJDHARM. Focus was on ruler not on ruled.

Sarabjit is way off the mark this time in his comments in reply to Dear Maj. Gen. (Retd) Deepak Malhotra.

About Gujarat riots in congress rule, you may have to keep in mind state actors renting-sponsoring random killings on both sides by contract killers. Public in general would be rioting against state-police; reeling under month-long curfews. Abdul Latif-Rasul Party etc. were the examples during Madhavsinh Solanki - Chiman Patel etc. rule.

Modi Govt. never imposed curfew in his rule. Difference is clear like Day-Nite.

Best regards,

On 6 April 2013 14:20, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Maj. Gen. (Retd) Deepak Malhotra,

1) Out if the 21 state level incidents you have listed,4 have
taken place in Gujarat. (ie. about 25%)

2) This is surely very high and arouses concern that Gujaratis
are a homicidal race of people and/or easily instigated.

3) Why are there no riots in the neighbouring state of Rajasthan
which equally shares the same borders including with Pakistan?

4) In each and every riot in Gujarat the aggressors were
overwhelmingly the Hindus and the victims the Muslims.

5) So what happened in Gujarat's riots are clear evidence that
Gujaratis in power/politics are damaging to the national fabric.
Mohandas Gandhi being one such and Narendra Modi another.
The entire Partition riots 5 million persons dead or injured was
caused by 1 Gujarati (Gandhi).

6) Can India allow another Gujarati (NaMo) to control India's
destiny ? Your own facts and figures say NO !!.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Deepak Malhotra <deepakmalho11@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

 

 Forget Gujarat: Look at the Congress Record

 

Let us set the record straight once and for all. Those Secularists who call Narendra Modi a murderer can judge for themselves from the Table below.

• Nowhere in the world has one party (Indian National Congress) presided over the murder of so many citizens.
• No Congress Minister / Politician has ever been booked. Only promoted.
• Do you want to hand over this Country to them again?  
• Please think ? 

List of MAJOR Riots / Incidents since 1947

(More than 50 dead)

Year	State(s)	Place	Numbers Massacred / Killed (Approx.)	Community Affected	Assailants	Party in Power	Prime Minister / Chief Minister
1947	Mainly Punjab / Bengal	Various	Min 5,00,000 (worst riots in human history)	Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs	Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs	Congress	Jawaharlal Nehru (PM)
1964	Bihar	Jamshedpur	2000	Hindus /Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	Congress	KB Sahay (CM)
1967	Bihar	Ranchi	177	Muslims	Hindus	Jana Kranti Dal	MP Sinha (CM)
1969	Gujarat	Ahmedabad	2000	Muslims	Hindus	Congress	Hitendra Desai (CM)
1970	Maharashtra	Bhiwandi	164	Muslims	Hindus	Congress	Vasantrao Naik (CM)
1979	Bihar	Jamshedpur	108	Hindus / Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	Janata Party	Karpuri Thakur
1980	UP	Moradabad	200	Muslims	-	Congress	VP Singh (CM)
1983	Assam	Nellie	2200 (official) 5000 (unofficial)	Muslims	Report Classified	Congress	Hiteshwar Saikia (CM)
1984	Delhi / Haryana	Delhi	4000	Sikhs	Congress Party Members	Congress	Rajiv Gandhi (PM) Bhajan Lal (CM Haryana)
1985	Gujarat	Ahmedabad	275	Muslims	Hindus	Congress	Madhav Sinh Solanki (CM)
1987	UP	Meerut	50	Muslims	PAC	Congress	Vir Bahadur Singh (CM)
1989	Bihar	Bhagalpur	1150	Muslims	Hindus	Congress	Bhagwat Jha Azad
1987 – to date	Jammu & Kashmir	Various	Over 60,000. 4,50,000 displaced (ethnic cleansing)	Hindus / Muslims / Troops	Islamic Terrorists	National Conference / Presidents Rule / PDP / Congress / Presidents Rule / National Conference	Farook Abdullah (CM) / Narasimha Rao (PM) / MM Sayeed / Ghulam Nabi Azad / Man Mohan Singh (PM) / Omar Abdullah (CM)
1990	UP	Aligarh	150	Muslims	Hindus	Janata Dal	Mulayam Singh Yadav (CM)
1990	Andhra Pradesh	Hyderabad	300	Hindus	Muslims	Congress	Chenna Reddy (CM)
1992	Gujarat	Surat	152	Hindus / Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	Congress + Allies	Chimman Bhai Patel (CM)
1992	UP	Kanpur	254	Hindus / Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	Presidents Rule (Congress)	Narasimha Rao (PM)
1992 / 1993	Maharashtra	Mumbai	900	Hindus / Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	Congress	Sudhakarrao Naik (CM)
1993	Maharashtra	Mumbai	250	All Communities	Islamic Terrorists	Congress	Sharad Pawar (CM)
2002	Gujarat	Godhra / Various	1200	Hindus / Muslims	Hindus / Muslims	BJP	Narendra Modi (CM)
2008	Maharashtra	Mumbai	164	All Communities	Islamic Terrorists	Congress	Vilasrao Deshmukh (CM)
2012	Assam	Kokrajhar	77	Muslims (from BD)	Bodos	Congress	Tarun Gogoi (CM)

 

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