Saturday, June 18, 2011

Re: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

well i think we can do nothing about the hazare's baba ramdev's etc. 
there are people who are cheated the most ---- the labour class who are landless and property less they are the ones who can not protest but some animals like baba ramdev and anna hazare are self appointed voices of all of us and do not think of us at all . This was done by a man called M. K. Gandhi who spoke against the dalits by calling them Harijans. No one listens to the dalits now and Ambedkar is forgotten but ambedkar knew where all these false fasts were leading---- It was ego boosting of the Hazare Ramdev kind. 

I am happy that now the bogy of the fast has been nailed and if you recall the PM of the country went on a fast when Graham Staines was murdered by hooligans. Will Ramdev and Hazare fast for the victims of Narmada. The victims of the post Godra riots who languish in jails or will they give clean chits to all the perpetrators of violence?
  



 
``Education is Cultural Action for Freedom''- Paulo Freire


From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2011 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

Dear Guptaji

If you are an honest citizen (which question is still open), then you too would easily pull the legs of these completely dishonest, completely illegally appointed / completely deceitful bunch of hoaxers and ensure that they are brought crashing down to safeguard democracy.

It is because it is NOT easy (especially since they have the tacit  support of the Congress Party President and her in-house media, her fixers and  and oceans of black money) that single individuals like me cannot bring them down on their territory / playing fields, and only cause them to move to safer (ie. less dangerous) positions

Everyone who needs to know, knows the concrete and positive work I do.

Sarbajit

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:48 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Leg pulling is very easy than doing and concrete and positive work.


--- On Sun, 19/6/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

To: "humjanenge" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, 19 June, 2011, 7:58 AM


Since nobody from "Arvind & Co" (a firm incidentally in which he is a very junior partner) is unable to reply to me, it again falls on me to request an even simpler clarification on the proposed "Jan LokPal" on behalf of the public of India.

URL: http://groups.google.com/group/humjanenge

2) As the people of India evidently want effective Institutions to exclusively inquire into and prosecute complaints against TOP-LEVEL FIXERS & UNELECTED / UNACCOUNTABLE PEOPLE EXERCISING "INFLUENCE" FROM TIME TO TIME LIKE

A) SANJAY GANDHI
B) VINCENT GEORGE
C) RANJAN BHATTACHARYA
D) PULAK CHATTERJEE
E) ROBERT VADRA
F) SUMAN DUBEY,
G) NIRA RADIA, ETC. ETC.




Re: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

Dear Guptaji

If you are an honest citizen (which question is still open), then you too would easily pull the legs of these completely dishonest, completely illegally appointed / completely deceitful bunch of hoaxers and ensure that they are brought crashing down to safeguard democracy.

It is because it is NOT easy (especially since they have the tacit  support of the Congress Party President and her in-house media, her fixers and  and oceans of black money) that single individuals like me cannot bring them down on their territory / playing fields, and only cause them to move to safer (ie. less dangerous) positions

Everyone who needs to know, knows the concrete and positive work I do.

Sarbajit

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:48 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Leg pulling is very easy than doing and concrete and positive work.


--- On Sun, 19/6/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

To: "humjanenge" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, 19 June, 2011, 7:58 AM


Since nobody from "Arvind & Co" (a firm incidentally in which he is a very junior partner) is unable to reply to me, it again falls on me to request an even simpler clarification on the proposed "Jan LokPal" on behalf of the public of India.

URL: http://groups.google.com/group/humjanenge

2) As the people of India evidently want effective Institutions to exclusively inquire into and prosecute complaints against TOP-LEVEL FIXERS & UNELECTED / UNACCOUNTABLE PEOPLE EXERCISING "INFLUENCE" FROM TIME TO TIME LIKE

A) SANJAY GANDHI
B) VINCENT GEORGE
C) RANJAN BHATTACHARYA
D) PULAK CHATTERJEE
E) ROBERT VADRA
F) SUMAN DUBEY,
G) NIRA RADIA, ETC. ETC.


Re: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

Leg pulling is very easy than doing and concrete and positive work.


--- On Sun, 19/6/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: [HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)
To: "humjanenge" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, 19 June, 2011, 7:58 AM

Since nobody from "Arvind & Co" (a firm incidentally in which he is a very junior partner) is unable to reply to me, it again falls on me to request an even simpler clarification on the proposed "Jan LokPal" on behalf of the public of India.

URL: http://groups.google.com/group/humjanenge

2) As the people of India evidently want effective Institutions to exclusively inquire into and prosecute complaints against TOP-LEVEL FIXERS & UNELECTED / UNACCOUNTABLE PEOPLE EXERCISING "INFLUENCE" FROM TIME TO TIME LIKE

A) SANJAY GANDHI
B) VINCENT GEORGE
C) RANJAN BHATTACHARYA
D) PULAK CHATTERJEE
E) ROBERT VADRA
F) SUMAN DUBEY,
G) NIRA RADIA, ETC. ETC.

DOES THE PROPOSED JAN LOKPAL ENCOMPASS SUCH PEOPLE DIRECTLY (ie. other than as accessories / conspirators) , AND / OR ARE THE EXISTING INSTITUTIONS LIKE POLICE / CBI / CVC / ACBs etc ADEQUATE / INADEQUATE ?

Sarbajit

From: Sarbajit Roy <sro..@gm...>
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Subject: Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-1)
To: humjanenge <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>


1) The people of India want effective Institutions to inqure into and prosecute complaints against 5 or 6 BIG-FISH like a) Chairperson NAC  b) Chief Justice of India  c) Speaker of Lok Sabha d) Lieut Governor of Delhi e) Dy. Chairman Planning Commission f) Governor RBI etc. etc. within 2 or 3 weeks

Instead, ARVIND & Co propose to give us an undersexed, overburdened,  11 member Commission (does this sound familiar <wink> ?) which will inquire and prosecute complaints into 5 or 6 MILLION low level munchkins  within 2 or 3 YEARS (possibly) !!!!

Since Arvind & Co are on this list, do they have the balls to reply / clarify ?

Sarbajit

Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

In our shared learning exercise on corruption (and not a single one of us here can claim to know everything on this subject) 2 things seem to be coming out

1) That ordinary people are encouraged / emboldened / compelled to partake in petty corruption because of rampant and unchecked HIGH-LEVEL corruption / faulty laws / taxation policies etc.

2) That there is no dearth of honest people within government, but the prevailing political-government-business-mafia nexus actively prevents / disincentives them from functioning according to their conscience and rules / regulations etc.

Unfortunately today we have a pack of discredited "jokers for hire" functioning like the "Pied Pipers of Hamelin" playing their seductive music and leading a generation  of impressionable Indians astray. What they are proposing is not a "LokPal Bill", nor is it a "JokePal Bill", but it IS a HOAXPAL BILL.

Luckily there are still so many Indians left who can see through these crude devices and are intellectually and religiously programmed to discount all the rabid and self-serving emails being shovelled by the hundreds into our email inboxes and the garbage on our TV screens.

WE KNOW that the present political system is a self-perpetuating machine operating in "always open for business" mode.

WE KNOW that the huge oceans of unaccounted monies required for the inconveniences of having to fight elections from time to time, to bribe voters, engage criminals, corrupt officers etc is inevitable under the present system

WE KNOW that elected representatives have no choice but to recoup their expenses by misusing public offices for their private gain.

WE KNOW that huge sums of unaccounted cash / favours are traded for awarding contracts / arranging postings / ensuring transfers /  interfering in investigations and judicial proceedings /  depriving the State coffers from revenues and taxes etc.

WE KNOW the fixers / NGOs / media persons / religious leaders etc who are the pimps in this racket.

WE KNOW that not a single political party has a genuine desire to address these problems.

WE KNOW that no political party (or even all of them) can ever solve these problems

WE KNOW the solution, by which time it will be too late.

Sarbajit

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Sir

I am summarising your 3 points

1)  'Aam aadmis' corruption is an outcome of unchecked brazen TOP LEVEL corruption. {Lokpal should be for TOP LEVEL corruption.}

2)  Political parties and their members cannot be trusted {.. to wipe out corruption} and people have lost faith in them

3)  Single POINTs and SINGLE POINT {"high command" / personality based) solutions are not the answer. Ultimately solutions are carried out by the affected persons / citizens who understand their own problems and generate their own solutions.

Sarbajit




On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Raj Srinivasan <rsrinivasan32@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit ji

May I join the dialogue as a member of a modest Gandhian group that
had initially started with the Stayagraha idea against the unbearable
curse of corruption which needs to start with internal cleansing and
perseverance .

As usual all our pleas were not acknowledged and repeated requests for
a meeting ignored.Yet thanks to Shambu ji a true old oak we plod on
and MGD & Anand ji is part of us

ON reflecting through the experience I have three comments on the
present discontent and what I see to be a just cause

1  We must acknowledge that peoples anger is not only against
corruption but corruption of the POWERFUL and the CONNECTED .In fact
small corruption is the poor mans substitute for not having a
connection to power
People are appalled and disgusted at the top  getting away using the
clout and brazen mendacity characteristic of of present
rulers.Attention of Lokpal should remain focused at the top only.
2  for that reason distrust in the politicos is high for they have
stopped believing the political  laments about how pervasive small
time endemic corruption is hurting the poor etc.All this is seen to be
crocodile tears ,a diversion to fritter away the anger and also pure
humbug -the bedst instance of the last is the Congress partys
constant clever maneuver to occupy any vacant high moral ground with
utmost alacrity
3  on the other hand NGO world must be wary of over extended action
and humbly realise that more
and more centralised SINGLE  point solutions eg Jan Lok pal can work
out as bad as the disease itself .We need to acknowledge that many
variants must be tried in a country like ours.And remain humble and
sensitive above all to let people be and let them have agency
I see disturbing  evidence to the contrary in some parts of Anna
/Ramdev groups behaviour and conduct It appears that many supporters
of recent focussed anti corruption mobilisation efforts are only dimly
aware that single solutions to complex problems of an urbanising
transitionla society can lead to unintended ego-totalitarian-tinpots
and adversarial civil strife
That is NOT Satyagraha
Remember good intent going astray
Remember Chauri chura
Remember Thermidor in the French Revolution


R Srinivasan

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Devasahayam
>
> The so-called anti-dowry / pro women laws are a double-edged sword which are
> being tremendously misused and we have no faith in them.
>
> In my religion / community (Brahmo Samaj) we do not take or accept dowry.
> Our wedding ceremonies are simple / austere and mostly take place in the
> same civil format specified in the Special Marriages Act before the Marriage
> Registrar. ie. in the presence of at least 2 or 3 witnesses and both
> families, the bride & groom publcily agree to marry each other with the
> blessing (non-financial) of both families and exchange garlands/rings. The
> actual ceremony is over in about 10 minutes - but can be extended if
> required with sermons / hymns which are not essential.to the ceremony
>
> It is said of my religion that we
> a) are Born like Hindus
> b) Marry like Muslims, &
> c) Divorce like Christians.
>
> One of our formely associated faiths (ie Arya Samaj) has a marriage law
> which is being tremendously misused. It is called the Arya Samaj Validation
> of Marriages Act 1939. This reprehensible Act is the cause of all broken /
> love / couirt marriages. which are run by network of advocates and fake Arya
> Samajes. This law is widely abused by bigamists and polygamists, and unlike
> all other prior laws applicable to Hindus which were repealed in 1956 when
> the "Hindu Code" (ie. thjose 5 or 6 laws for Hindus) came into force, this
> law was never repealed to legitimise the Bastardy within the Nehru-Gandhi
> parivar and allow their non-Hindu wives to become "Hindus" or not at the
> flick of a switch (OM-OFF-ON .. etc).
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sarbajit,
>>
>> You are fond of simple solutions. I had mentioned some of them in my
>> interview excerpt.
>>
>> I will throw a challenge to the community of social and anti-corruption
>> activists with a one-point agenda. Can you do away with the social evil
>> called 'dowry system' which is the worst form of bribe/corruption prevalent
>> in every household and has been the cause for the devastation of many
>> families and the life/honour of their daughters? There are enough laws to
>> help you.
>>
>> M.G.Devasahayam
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Shri Anand
>>>
>>> I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain
>>> specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past /
>>> present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement
>>> of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular
>>> membership.
>>>
>>> Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The
>>> middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily
>>> IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially
>>> and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the
>>> politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens
>>> who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid
>>> losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower
>>> classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.
>>>
>>> In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is
>>> a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black.
>>> The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in
>>> all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the
>>> media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the
>>> problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it
>>> is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you
>>> dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which
>>> MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR
>>> will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR
>>> call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????
>>>
>>> Respectfully
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,
>>> >Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know
>>> > who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one
>>> > of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.
>>> >
>>> >My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With
>>> > my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption'
>>> > needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists
>>> > at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in
>>> > our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which
>>> > people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue.
>>> > Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through
>>> > under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property,
>>> > when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when
>>> > we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state
>>> > our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae
>>> > cases.
>>> >
>>> >Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the
>>> > personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to
>>> > ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to
>>> > speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and
>>> > have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a
>>> > self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.
>>> >
>>> >YP Anand
>>>  >
>>>
>>
>
>


[HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-2)

Since nobody from "Arvind & Co" (a firm incidentally in which he is a very junior partner) is unable to reply to me, it again falls on me to request an even simpler clarification on the proposed "Jan LokPal" on behalf of the public of India.

URL: http://groups.google.com/group/humjanenge

2) As the people of India evidently want effective Institutions to exclusively inquire into and prosecute complaints against TOP-LEVEL FIXERS & UNELECTED / UNACCOUNTABLE PEOPLE EXERCISING "INFLUENCE" FROM TIME TO TIME LIKE

A) SANJAY GANDHI
B) VINCENT GEORGE
C) RANJAN BHATTACHARYA
D) PULAK CHATTERJEE
E) ROBERT VADRA
F) SUMAN DUBEY,
G) NIRA RADIA, ETC. ETC.

DOES THE PROPOSED JAN LOKPAL ENCOMPASS SUCH PEOPLE DIRECTLY (ie. other than as accessories / conspirators) , AND / OR ARE THE EXISTING INSTITUTIONS LIKE POLICE / CBI / CVC / ACBs etc ADEQUATE / INADEQUATE ?

Sarbajit

From: Sarbajit Roy <sro..@gm...>
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Subject: Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-1)
To: humjanenge <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>


1) The people of India want effective Institutions to inqure into and prosecute complaints against 5 or 6 BIG-FISH like a) Chairperson NAC  b) Chief Justice of India  c) Speaker of Lok Sabha d) Lieut Governor of Delhi e) Dy. Chairman Planning Commission f) Governor RBI etc. etc. within 2 or 3 weeks

Instead, ARVIND & Co propose to give us an undersexed, overburdened,  11 member Commission (does this sound familiar <wink> ?) which will inquire and prosecute complaints into 5 or 6 MILLION low level munchkins  within 2 or 3 YEARS (possibly) !!!!

Since Arvind & Co are on this list, do they have the balls to reply / clarify ?

Sarbajit

[HumJanenge] Simple reasons why Arvind Kejriwal & Co. are Congress puppets (Part-1)

1) The people of India want effective Institutions to inqure into and prosecute complaints against 5 or 6 BIG-FISH like a) Chairperson NAC  b) Chief Justice of India  c) Speaker of Lok Sabha d) Lieut Governor of Delhi e) Dy. Chairman Planning Commission f) Governor RBI etc. etc. within 2 or 3 weeks

Instead, ARVIND & Co propose to give us an undersexed, overburdened,  11 member Commission (does this sound familiar <wink> ?) which will inquire and prosecute complaints into 5 or 6 MILLION low level munchkins  within 2 or 3 YEARS (possibly) !!!!

Since Arvind & Co are on this list, do they have the balls to reply / clarify ?

Sarbajit

Friday, June 17, 2011

Re: [HumJanenge] THOMAS WAS APPOINTED AS CVC DESPITE KNOWLEDGE OF VIGILANCE CASE

What's the result of RTI response to non-acceptance of Kerala State for central deputation? Who's being sacked and punished?
spm 

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 2:02 AM, Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com> wrote:

      Dear Sir,
      Shri P J Thomas was appointed by the Selection Committee (consisting of PM, HM & Leader of Opp.) by majority vote 2 against 1. Since we take all decisions in Democracy by majority votes, nothing else could be OK, isn't it? With Government's representatives (always) in majority in any such committees, the result always will follow what Government proposes. Why should then there be the inclusion of opposition members in such committees at all?
      For effective use of such committees, the rule must be to select THAT person from the panel (in front of the committee) who has least opposition from ALL the members in the committee. In short selection must be unanimous. Otherwise the committee formation has no value at all, don't you agree sir?
      With regards to all,
      ------Mukund Apte


On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:48 PM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

PJ Thomas was not cleared to serve on central deputation'

                                                                                       Economic Times, 13.6.2011.

NEW DELHI: After denying any communique from the Kerala government on the pending vigilance case against former CVC P J Thomas , the Centre has now made public a letter from the state which says he was not cleared to serve on central deputation.

The Central Public Information Officer of the Department of Personnel and Training in an RTI response had earlier said no such letter was with them. But during the first appeal, Deputy Secretary R K Mittal overturned the previous reply.

"After going through the relevant papers and official records, it appears that the CPIO was not able to link up the letter with the file concerned. Accordingly, CPIO is directed to refer to file...and provide the relevant information," Mittal said in his order.

After the decision, the letter dated March 11, 2008 from the chief secretary of Kerala objecting to Thomas' deputation to the Centre was provided to activist S C Agrawal.

The communique has punctured the claims of DoPT that it was unaware about the ongoing vigilance case against Thomas while short-listing his name for the post of anti-corruption watchdog Central Vigilance Commissioner.

"P J Thomas, IAS, Chief Secretary to Government (Kerala), had applied for Central Deputation in 1988, but was not selected for appointment. Subsequently after 1992, he had expressed his willingness for central deputation, but was not considered because of ongoing vigilance enquiry/case. Because of this he was not considered so far.

"The case has not been finalised yet. I may inform tha Thomas could not work at the Centre as he was not recommended for the same by the state government ," the letter from the chief secretary said.

60-year-old Thomas, a 1973-batch IAS officer of the Kerala cadre, was appointed chief secretary of the state in 2007 before moving to the Centre in 2009 as secretary, parliamentary affairs, telecom secretary and finally central vigilance commissioner.

The government had appointed Thomas as CVC despite dissension by Leader of Opposition Sushma Swaraj, who was one of the three-members in the selection committee comprising Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Home Minister P Chidambaram.

The apex court had later quashed the appointment of Thomas as CVC holding that the recommendation made by the panel, headed by the Prime Minister, did not consider the relevant material and, therefore, its advice "does not exist in law".

The court had scrapped his appointment as CVC on a PIL by Center for Public Interest Litigation (CPIL) and retired bureaucrats and police officials, including former Chief Election Commissioner J M Lyngdoh , challenging his appointment in view of a criminal case pending against him.

Later, the prime minister had said he was unaware of the pending case against Thomas and virtually blamed Chavan, who was MoS (Personnel) at that time, for the fiasco, contending that the key information was not provided.

Reacting to it, Chavan said vigilance clearance was the responsibility of the state government. He had also said the central deputation of Thomas was on the basis of documents provided by the Kerala government.

This argument was termed "baseless" by the then Chief Minister of Kerala V S Achuthanandan who said the Centre was duly informed about pending vigilance case against Thomas in 2008.





[HumJanenge] Once the information seeker is provided information relating to a third party, it is no longer in the private domain

regards

--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181

[HumJanenge] Judgement of High court related to voluminous information

Dear all,
Please find enclosed a useful judgement. the relevant portion is on page 8.
regards
sandeep

--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181

[HumJanenge] Political parties' financials to be accessible to public

Political parties' financials to be accessible to public

Hindustan Times

The Income Tax (IT) department has decided to make public the tax returns
of political parties bringing it within admissible information under the
Right to Information (RTI) Act. Under Se c 138 of the IT Act 1961, the IT
department will now provide ...

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Political-parties-financials-to-be-accessible-to-public/Article1-710661.aspx

--
Anand S.
Coordinator, Anti Corruption Forum
Bangalore 560 085.
Cell No. +91-92410-12730

Re: [HumJanenge] The saffron and Green terrorism is also corrupt way of using Religion

Everyone has the right to express their thoughts freely, without fearing the consequences, unless it hurts someone's reputation or the allegation is baseless.
Bring the corrupt to book, whatever the means - intellectually - thinking, arguing, time consuming or simply bulldozing like in the middle-east uprisings, swiftly and decisively. However, the psyche of the Indian mind is so subjugated that its "Chalta Hai" !
Wake Up India, Hightime....JAAAAGO !
Good Luck....JP.
 


From: Mr. Hemant Kshirsagar <hemantkshirsagar01@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2011 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] The saffron and Green terrorism is also corrupt way of using Religion

Respected Sir,

Sorry for disturbance, though the group has been for the RTI, there has surely been a good forum for discussing of the social issues.

there are quiet intelligent people around this group, unlike the other groups.

Regards,

Hemant Kshirsagar
+91 8149322665


On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem with this rampant abuse / diversion of HumJanenge group's resources for non-RTI is that everyone is equally affected and polarised.

I propose that from midnight between 15 and 16th July 2011 we shall revert this group back to RTI after consulting other the moderators like Shri Sarabjit and Shri Sharma.

Ashish


On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:23 AM, HG PANDYA <hgpandya@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Sarabjit,
 y this asim.human@gmail.com is allowed for nonRTI matters. He is
biased and believes his own thoughts. He must go along with others
like him to south africa and get a treatment there. see Mahatme Gandhi
also had done injustice to Subhaschandra Bose and Bhagatsingh. He also
professed his own line and not allowed others thought. They were also
of the opinion to defend by weapons. He can't see the atrocities by
police at midnight. What right the police have to harrass this people
peacefully gathered?
I want to add one more point that no commission come out with clear
facts regarding Subhaschandra Bose because while going thru the facts
they find these people Gandhi and Nehru involved in it, and so nobody
allowes to declare the hidden files with Home and MEA ministries.


On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:05 PM,  <asim.human@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
> For using any of the teachings of Mahatma Gandhiji we all need to learn
> tolerance. We have to build new nation of Democratic valu in which there
> shall be no importance to Temples and Mosques but more importance shall be
> given to basic infrastructures like building toilets, barrier free
> government offices etc. Civil Rights shall be given priority than any non
> issues to which the fundamentalists always giving hyper imp. The terrorism
> of any colour is disgraceful for good governance. So all good citizens
> should keep distance from such provocative thoughts. The corruption related
> to money is very important but the behavioural corruption, constant mis
> guiding on imp facts are criminal things. All such parties and their leaders
> needs to be taken to forest of south Africa and we shall leave them in deep
> forest from where these dirty persons shall not return back and nature will
> teach them lesson.
> - Asim Sarode
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>
> ________________________________
> From: ramans shriman <msb931@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>; <asim.human@gmail.com>
> Cc: <desiyatra@googlegroups.com>;
> <stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com>; <drtogadia@gmail.com>; VHP
> INT'L HQs DELHI\(Goutam Chatterjee\)<vhpintlhqs@gmail.com>; Bjp
> Itcell<bjp.karnataka.itcell.facebook@gmail.com>; Shiv
> Sena<mazamaharashtra@shivsena.org>; <karishma_ray@yahoo.com>;
> hindujagruti<hindu.jagruti@gmail.com>; Hindu media monitoring
> Chennai<hindumediamonitoringchennai@yahoo.com>
> Subject: they shall all learn democracy and Satyagraha- two will go out
> togather
> since the democracy or dirty democracy is not a product of India ,
> corruption is also not. its evidence n froof is the macauly's notes to uk
>  when he toured india.
>  the dirty democracy of india n the dirty democracy inspired human behaviour
> of the empowered  called corruption have to go togather out of india . one
> will not go n never go w/o the other. two will go out togather
>
> ________________________________
> From: "asim.human@gmail.com" <asim.human@gmail.com>
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 9:42:47 AM
> Subject: [HumJanenge] Re: they shall all learn democracy and Satyagraha
>
> Dear All,
> Baba Ramdev's statement regarding creating an army with weapons was a great
> dent to the movement against corruption. We all should accept the fact that
> the Yoga Guru is not having perfect-Democratic thought base and
> understanding. The fundamentalist parties like BJP and their allies also
> dented Baba Ramdev's initiative. He allowed the tainted and self proclaimed-
> violent Sadhvi to sit with him on stage was one of the great mistakes.
> Ramdev Baba don't know even 'Sa' of Satyagraha. The issue of Black Money is
> defiantly related our lives as citizens of India but the way to solve it can
> be different than such movements that to led by opportunist Baba Ramdev.
> Anna Hazare is a person with simplicity. And there can not be any doubts
> about him and his motives, like we are having many doubts about Baba Ramdev.
> But we must keep in mind that Anna is not having clear understanding about
> Democracy and Democratic processes. He just likes media and publicity. Anna
> was never a Gandhian in real sense, but now he got to know very clearly that
> 'being Gandhian' is beneficial.
> So with all these flaws we need to accept Anna but we shall not give any
> scope to persons of loose mentality like Ramdev Baba to lead any movements
> related to citizen rights.
> - Adv. Asim Sarode
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Y.P. Anand" <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
> Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:34:47 +0530 (IST)
> To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
> ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
> never ask for
> Dear Shri Devasahayam,
> I agree with you that corruption is a very widespread issue and trying to
> enforce some simplistic or quick-fix solutions in isolation, without a
> deeper study of the issue in its numerous aspects, can only be illusory. I
> feel that such a trend is also the result of self-righteous attitudes which
> are based more on ignorance mixed with arrogance than on a deep
> understanding of the subject.
>
> With regards,
> YP Anand  .
>
> ________________________________
> From: Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in>
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 13 June, 2011 9:05:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
> never ask for
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I have been one of the staunchest opponent of corruption in any form and
> have been closely following this corruption debate. But I am also a follower
> of the Holy Bible. There is a famous passage in the Bible that says "Why do
> you see the speck that is in other's eyes, but do not notice the log that is
> in your own eye?" I hope the message is clear. To make it explicit I will
> reproduce the interview I gave to a Tamil Magazine recently on this theme:
>
> Question 7: As an activist of anti-corruption movement, what is your
> suggested prescription to keep the corruption in check or any headway
> possible in the movement in the coming years? What should be the people's
> role?
>
> Ans.    The ongoing commotion about corruption is like six blind men
> describing an elephant by feeling different parts of the animal's body. The
> blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who
> feels the tail says it is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says it
> is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says it is like a hand fan;
> the one who feels the belly says it is like a wall; and the one who feels
> the tusk says it is like a solid pipe.
>
>           This is what is happening about corruption, the hydra-headed
> monster which is being understood and described differently by different
> people and in the process concerted and concentrated action to combat the
> evil is not taking place. For this we need first to understand the root
> causes of this all-pervading evil:
>
> 1. Corruption has more to do with our culture and social values. For
> instance the most prevalent social practice of dowry itself is a serious
> form of corruption –girl's parents heavily bribing boy's parents for her to
> be taken into their household. This and other forms of corruption like
> making cash & kind offerings to deities for favours and blindly following
> corrupt and decadent religious priests and preachers are socially and
> culturally rooted in our society. How then can governments and businesses
> escape from this evil?
>
> 2. Our electoral process that brings forth government leaders is riddled
> with corruption and voters are waiting to be bribed with cash and
> 'freebies'. It is but natural that corrupt elections will throw up only
> corrupt government. How then can corruption be eliminated?
>
> 3. Constitution is the charter of India's governance that has established
> some of the finest institutions and instruments of democratic governance
> backed by appropriate laws and legislations. But nearly six decades down the
> line these institutions/instruments have degenerated and lost their capacity
> to govern with the laws and legislations remaining only on paper. There is
> no integrity left in these institutions. What then is the use of enacting
> more laws and creating more institutions?
>
>         My prescription therefore would be to focus on elimination of
> societal and electoral corruption and restoration of institutional
> integrity. For this, people need not perform miracles. All they need to do
> is to reject corrupt customs and practices in society, refuse to accept
> 'freebies' and cash as bribe for voting and insist that the institutions and
> instruments of governance perform their tasks as per the laws of the land.
>
> M.G.Devasahayam
>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Satish Ji
>>
>> If you ask me personally I agree with you 100%. However, some of our
>> members (who consider themselves to be corruption fighters) have requested
>> that discussions on LokPal / Anna / Baba etc will be of general interest to
>> many of our members and have requested that  discussions be allowed in June
>> also.
>>
>> The Moderators monitor the activity on this group[ very carefully. We try
>> and allow a sufficient degree of free speech on this group which is within
>> the boundaries of decency and rules of debating. Hence this is one of the
>> very few groups where very free and frank (and often with fresh perspective)
>> speech can take place.
>>
>> So I am requesting you also to please put up with this till end of this
>> month. You concern has been carefully noted and we shall endeavour to see
>> that you are not disturbed unduly.
>>
>> At the same time our errant members should take notice that if LKPB
>> discussion overshadows RTI here, the facility will be instantly terninated.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Satish Kumar Kapoor
>> <kapoorsatish@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Mr Sarbajit,
>>> When some body posts some topics not connected with RTI, u say that this
>>> forum is  meant for discussion of RTI matters, then why discuss Lokpal
>>> bill/Anna Hazare/Baba Ramdev etc.
>>> S.K.Kapoor
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 6:04:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
>>> never ask for
>>>
>>> I am not afraid of this Bill/Law.
>>> I am against it because the way certain people are going about it
>>> subverts all democratic and constitutional norms / systems
>>> I am not interested in the least to be on any Govt body/post. My writings
>>> on this are purely a tactical move.
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Sarabjit,
>>>> What are you affraid of? Even if the Jan Lokpal Bill is drafted, do you
>>>> think Parliament will pass it? You are  so venomous against all, just
>>>> because you were not made a member of this group? You have made amply clear
>>>> in various postings that you are more than qualified and should have been
>>>> included, but Government did not choose to and hance you have leashed this
>>>> anti compaign. ha! ha!
>>>>
>>>> From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 2:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC
>>>> will never ask for
>>>>
>>>> Dear Hemant
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes Individuals (acting as ninjas) can achieve more than crowds.
>>>> Take an example in my own case (because you asked in a previous email)
>>>>
>>>> I played a pivotal role in getting Mr Pramod Mahajan out of the Union
>>>> Cabinet when he was Telecom Minister. Because of this the Govt was able to
>>>> get about Rs. 3,000+ crores as revenue for licence violations (actually they
>>>> didnt have a licence in the first place - only the blessings of Ataljis
>>>> "family". I could only do this because there ARE honest babus - who need
>>>> fearless, honest & skilled citizens to do what they cant do themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Sarbajit
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Mr. Hemant Kshirsagar
>>>> <hemantkshirsagar01@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So that does not mean that we can ignore such good platforms for the
>>>> same.
>>>>
>>>> Do we as an individual have a power to collect such fan following???
>>>>
>>>> The least we can do is follow such people who create a movementum for
>>>> the same.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mr Rangarajan
>>>>
>>>> FIRST: The fear of God will not be put into dishonest public servants by
>>>> new laws or "old wine in new bottles"<he he>.
>>>>
>>>> SECOND: The existing laws are essentially decentralised into various
>>>> investigative agencies with some checks and balances. Now the fascist forces
>>>> want centralised laws / big brother / police + judge to be combined at one
>>>> point / grid.
>>>>
>>>> THIRD:  All these people - Anna, Baba, Bhushan&Bhushan, Arvind, Hegde
>>>> are essentially COLLABORATORS who have all regularly taken Govt money at
>>>> some point in time for services rendered  Such QUISLINGS are doing all this
>>>> drama knowing very well that "only the small fish will be caught while the
>>>> big operators will carry on"- (and can Mr Prasanth Bhushan deny that he made
>>>> this remark in a public place albeit privately?)
>>>>
>>>> Sarbajit
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> M. Rangarajan,
>>>> (retired Group General Manager ONGC)
>>>> B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
>>>> Chellaghatta village,
>>>> Bangalore – 560037.
>>>> Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
>>>> e-mail: rangajan@yahoo.com / rangajan@gmail.com
>>>> Dated 13th June 2011
>>>> The following two statements in the below postings is quite interesting:
>>>>
>>>> First - "put the fear of God into dishonest public servants" - how do
>>>> you do it? It is very obvious that exixting laws have failed to do this and
>>>> everybody agrees without any exception. Do you expect our honourable M Ps
>>>> who are leaders in curruption (may be baring very very few) will ever pass a
>>>> law to end curruption? Not in my life time.
>>>>
>>>> Second - "NEGATIVE laws which will turn India into a POLICE STATE
>>>> controlled by fascist forces" - Why do you need any new law for this - the
>>>> existing laws are enough - Smt Indira Gandhi declared ememgency - Delhi
>>>> police brutally beat up innocent sleeping people - there are hundreds of
>>>> examples of such brutal action by state in the past in India.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dr. NC JAIN <j_nc@hotmail.com>
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 11:20 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC
>>>> will never ask for
>>>>
>>>> Dear sir
>>>>   I donot agree with you. You might recall an incident in history when
>>>> Pandits of India stated that Mohmad Gajnavi will not do anything to the
>>>> Somnath temple because, they have saved the temple with their Mantras&
>>>> Slokas. Everyone knows the result. Today, it is Kalyoug,where things have to
>>>> be snatched and not given. You have to fight for your right , no one is
>>>> going to donate it. In theses circumstances, it is appropriate to fuel the
>>>> fire for the second war of independence  started by Jaiprakash Narain.The
>>>> war is to make Indians free.
>>>> Dr N C Jain
>>>> 13-6-11
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 01:30:10 +0530
>>>> Subject: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
>>>> never ask for
>>>> From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>>
>>>> Baba, SrSri, Anna, Swami-A, Swami-S, GuruV, GuruM ....
>>>>
>>>> 3 small POSITIVE steps (followed in many progressive countries) is all
>>>> it takes to generate the momentum to reduce corruption to the point where it
>>>> will cease to affect the ordinary citizens (ie those who pay bribes for
>>>> daily services, school admissions, building sanctions etc), reduce
>>>> inflation, and put the fear of God into dishonest public servants.
>>>>
>>>> Why have all these Babas and Swamis not agitated for these POSITIVE
>>>> steps while instead only demanding NEGATIVE laws which will turn India into
>>>> a POLICE STATE controlled by fascist forces ?
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>




Re: [HumJanenge] CIC: Give Sonia foreign trip info

My kudos to the inquirer from Haryana. This brave soul need to be protected lest he be bumped off for asking awkward questions.
JP.
 


From: Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2011 11:23 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] CIC: Give Sonia foreign trip info

The Central Information Commission (CIC) has asked the government to disclose details about foreign visits undertaken by Congress president Sonia Gandhi and costs incurred during these trips, besides the purpose of these visits.

The CIC was responding to an appeal filed by Hisar-based RTI applicant Ramesh Verma, who sought to know from the Prime Minister's Office information pertaining to the foreign visits of Sonia Gandhi, costs incurred, benefits and purpose of these visits. "It seems the Parliamentary Affairs Ministry had informed that the Central government had incurred no expenditure on the foreign visits of Sonia Gandhi during the last 10 years. However, the Cabinet Secretariat had no knowledge if any information had been given to the applicant regarding her foreign visits as the chairperson of the National Advisory Council (NAC)," Chief Information Commissioner Satyananda Mishra pointed out, giving 10 days to the government to furnish the details.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Give-Sonia-foreign-trip-info--CIC/803236/




Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Sir

I am summarising your 3 points

1)  'Aam aadmis' corruption is an outcome of unchecked brazen TOP LEVEL corruption. {Lokpal should be for TOP LEVEL corruption.}

2)  Political parties and their members cannot be trusted {.. to wipe out corruption} and people have lost faith in them

3)  Single POINTs and SINGLE POINT {"high command" / personality based) solutions are not the answer. Ultimately solutions are carried out by the affected persons / citizens who understand their own problems and generate their own solutions.

Sarbajit



On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Raj Srinivasan <rsrinivasan32@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit ji

May I join the dialogue as a member of a modest Gandhian group that
had initially started with the Stayagraha idea against the unbearable
curse of corruption which needs to start with internal cleansing and
perseverance .

As usual all our pleas were not acknowledged and repeated requests for
a meeting ignored.Yet thanks to Shambu ji a true old oak we plod on
and MGD & Anand ji is part of us

ON reflecting through the experience I have three comments on the
present discontent and what I see to be a just cause

1  We must acknowledge that peoples anger is not only against
corruption but corruption of the POWERFUL and the CONNECTED .In fact
small corruption is the poor mans substitute for not having a
connection to power
People are appalled and disgusted at the top  getting away using the
clout and brazen mendacity characteristic of of present
rulers.Attention of Lokpal should remain focused at the top only.
2  for that reason distrust in the politicos is high for they have
stopped believing the political  laments about how pervasive small
time endemic corruption is hurting the poor etc.All this is seen to be
crocodile tears ,a diversion to fritter away the anger and also pure
humbug -the bedst instance of the last is the Congress partys
constant clever maneuver to occupy any vacant high moral ground with
utmost alacrity
3  on the other hand NGO world must be wary of over extended action
and humbly realise that more
and more centralised SINGLE  point solutions eg Jan Lok pal can work
out as bad as the disease itself .We need to acknowledge that many
variants must be tried in a country like ours.And remain humble and
sensitive above all to let people be and let them have agency
I see disturbing  evidence to the contrary in some parts of Anna
/Ramdev groups behaviour and conduct It appears that many supporters
of recent focussed anti corruption mobilisation efforts are only dimly
aware that single solutions to complex problems of an urbanising
transitionla society can lead to unintended ego-totalitarian-tinpots
and adversarial civil strife
That is NOT Satyagraha
Remember good intent going astray
Remember Chauri chura
Remember Thermidor in the French Revolution


R Srinivasan

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Devasahayam
>
> The so-called anti-dowry / pro women laws are a double-edged sword which are
> being tremendously misused and we have no faith in them.
>
> In my religion / community (Brahmo Samaj) we do not take or accept dowry.
> Our wedding ceremonies are simple / austere and mostly take place in the
> same civil format specified in the Special Marriages Act before the Marriage
> Registrar. ie. in the presence of at least 2 or 3 witnesses and both
> families, the bride & groom publcily agree to marry each other with the
> blessing (non-financial) of both families and exchange garlands/rings. The
> actual ceremony is over in about 10 minutes - but can be extended if
> required with sermons / hymns which are not essential.to the ceremony
>
> It is said of my religion that we
> a) are Born like Hindus
> b) Marry like Muslims, &
> c) Divorce like Christians.
>
> One of our formely associated faiths (ie Arya Samaj) has a marriage law
> which is being tremendously misused. It is called the Arya Samaj Validation
> of Marriages Act 1939. This reprehensible Act is the cause of all broken /
> love / couirt marriages. which are run by network of advocates and fake Arya
> Samajes. This law is widely abused by bigamists and polygamists, and unlike
> all other prior laws applicable to Hindus which were repealed in 1956 when
> the "Hindu Code" (ie. thjose 5 or 6 laws for Hindus) came into force, this
> law was never repealed to legitimise the Bastardy within the Nehru-Gandhi
> parivar and allow their non-Hindu wives to become "Hindus" or not at the
> flick of a switch (OM-OFF-ON .. etc).
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sarbajit,
>>
>> You are fond of simple solutions. I had mentioned some of them in my
>> interview excerpt.
>>
>> I will throw a challenge to the community of social and anti-corruption
>> activists with a one-point agenda. Can you do away with the social evil
>> called 'dowry system' which is the worst form of bribe/corruption prevalent
>> in every household and has been the cause for the devastation of many
>> families and the life/honour of their daughters? There are enough laws to
>> help you.
>>
>> M.G.Devasahayam
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Shri Anand
>>>
>>> I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain
>>> specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past /
>>> present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement
>>> of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular
>>> membership.
>>>
>>> Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The
>>> middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily
>>> IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially
>>> and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the
>>> politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens
>>> who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid
>>> losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower
>>> classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.
>>>
>>> In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is
>>> a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black.
>>> The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in
>>> all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the
>>> media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the
>>> problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it
>>> is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you
>>> dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which
>>> MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR
>>> will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR
>>> call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????
>>>
>>> Respectfully
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,
>>> >Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know
>>> > who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one
>>> > of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.
>>> >
>>> >My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With
>>> > my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption'
>>> > needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists
>>> > at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in
>>> > our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which
>>> > people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue.
>>> > Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through
>>> > under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property,
>>> > when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when
>>> > we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state
>>> > our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae
>>> > cases.
>>> >
>>> >Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the
>>> > personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to
>>> > ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to
>>> > speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and
>>> > have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a
>>> > self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.
>>> >
>>> >YP Anand
>>>  >
>>>
>>
>
>

[HumJanenge] Orissa stalls RTI queries on babus



Dear friends

Please see the link which will give you an interesting news  about denial  of information  by Odisha bureacracy published in the Hindustan Times. .

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Orissa-stalls-RTI-queries-on-babus/H1-Article1-709689.aspx



                        Orissa stalls RTI queries on babus


The Biju Janata Dal (BJD) government in Orissa has declined to give information on why it has been sitting on cases of corruption lodged against top government officials by the vigilance department. In response to a query under the Right to Information (RTI) Act posed by HT on May 25, the government

argued disclosure of the information "won't serve larger public interest".


HT had sought the information from the general administration department — under chief minister Naveen Patnaik — on why it refused the vigilance department's request to sanction the prosecution of four officers and kept pending for years its decision on seven.


Using the RTI Act in February this year, HT found the vigilance department had registered corruption cases against 26 Indian Administrative Service (IAS), two Indian Police Service (IPS) and 13 Indian Forest Service (IFS) officers of Orissa cadre between April 1, 2000, and December 31, 2010.


During the same period, the department had sought sanction to prosecute 19 officers – 11 IAS, one IPS and seven IFS. Most of the cases related to misappropriation of funds and showing undue favour. While the state government refused sanction to prosecute four officers — three IAS and one IFS — it kept pending for one to five years it decision in cases of seven officers (six IAS and one IFS) as on December 31, 2010, the RTI answer revealed.


The Supreme Court has ordered that sanction or refusal for prosecution be given within three months. On the other hand, a circular of the state's general administration department says the nod or disapproval has to come in two months.

Replying to HT's query in May, the public information officer and under secretary of the general administration department, JN Sarangi, in a letter (dated May 30) said: "The matter relates to vigilance… Disclosure of information won't serve larger public interest. Rather it will hamper the process of investigation."


On Sarangi's answer, Biswajit Mohanty, board member, Transparency International India, told HT: "The continuous efforts of the state government to prevent transparency in the process of seeking sanction for prosecution exposes the lack of commitment to preventing corruption at high places. A citizen has every right to know why the government is protecting or delaying the prosecution of senior officers."


Posted by Pradip Pradhan





Re: [rti4empowerment] PUCL and ESG Invitation to discussion on: The POSCO Betrayal, Sunday, 5 pm, Bangalore

Dear All
The initiative to study the facts and create general awareness is indeed commendable.All my support.
With such a short notice it is difficult to reach for the release of the study.Yet I extend all my moral support and wish the function aall successs.
 All of us need to get to the next stage of" educate and agitate" at the local level.
Best Wishes,
 
Sincerely,
P.K.Sivanandan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 1:58 PM, ESGINDIA <esg@esgindia.org> wrote:
 

Peoples Union for Civil Liberties

&

Environment Support Group

(Environmental, Social Justice and Governance Initiatives)


invite you to the release of


"Tearing through the Water Landscape:

Evaluating the environmental and social consequences of POSCO project in Odisha, India"

by Dr. V. Suresh, General Secretary, PUCL

followed by a discussion on


The POSCO Betrayal

Subversion of law denying Fundamental Rights of affected communities to advance the interests of the world's largest steel-power-port-mining-infrastructure project


5 pm – 7 pm, Sunday, 19th June 2011

Indian Social Institute, Benson Cross Road, Benson Town, Bangalore


Presentations by:


Dr. V. Suresh who served as Member of the Independent Investigation Committee appointed by Indian Environment Ministry to review POSCO clearances will share his insights why the majority recommendation was to revoke the project's environmental and forest clearances


&


Leo F. Saldanha of Environment Support Group Group who co-authored "Tearing through the Water Landscape" will share the findings of this report and analyse how Jairam Ramesh's dubious pro-POSCO decision has created the current state of police terror and effectively reduced affected communities to the status of being a "rightless people"


Dr. Kshitij Urs, Regional Manager of Action Aid, Bangalore will chair the proceedings.


Arati Chokshi

PUCL

aratichokshi@gmail.com Cell: 9483716318

Mallesh K. R.

ESG

mallesh@esgindia.org Cell: 9448377402


"Tearing through the Water Landscape:

Evaluating the environmental and social consequences of POSCO project in Odisha, India"

by

Leo F. Saldanha and Bhargavi S. Rao

Environment Support Group


Background:


On 2nd May 2011, Indian Environment and Forest Minister Jairam Ramesh finally approved the diversion of over 3,000 acres of forest land, of the 4,000 acres demanded, for a steel-power-port complex of the POSCO India project. Earlier, on 31 January 2011, Ramesh had approved the environmental and coastal regulation zone clearances that the project had secured in 2007, even though all these clearances were obtained by fraud, and thus illegal, as proved by an independent investigative committee appointed by the MoEF last year as well as by another expert committee.


Forest Rights denied is violation of Fundamental Rights


The diversion of forests for non-industrial use by POSCO was based on "categorical assurances" that Jairam Ramesh sought from the Odisha Government, that the Forest Rights Act did not apply to communities affected directly and indirectly by POSCO. The Odisha Government gave him this assurance on the basis of fraudulent claims that there were no non-traditional forest dwellers and tribes in the POSCO project affected villages of Jagatsinghpur, thus making this massive land transfer merely an administrative arrangement. Rather cheaply, the Odisha Government accused Shishir Mahpatra, the Sarpanch of Dhinkia Panchayat, of fraud in providing resolutions of Palli Sabhas that demonstrated that not only were there OTFDs and tribals in the project affected area, but that they had been dependent on the region's natural resources, particularly forests, for centuries. Ramesh did not hesitate for a moment and question this claim by the Odisha Government. On the basis of this uncertainty in fact, he proceeded to support the POSCO clearance claiming it was of "strategic importance" to India.


Authorising the loot of India's natural resources:


As the single largest industrial foreign direct investment ever in India (with a capital cost of Rs. 51,000 crores at 2005 prices), POSCO's ambitions in India aren't merely of location a steel-power-port complex in the ecologically senstive Jagatsinghpur district. In fact, company officials have submitted before the investigative committees that they will not invest in the steel-port complex if permission to mine for iron ore in over 6,100 acres of dense jungle in the Kandadhar Hills in Sundergarh district is not granted. Most of this iron ore mined is for export without any local value addition, and thus will serve the economic interest of South Korea and POSCO stockholders – mainly American banks and Warren Buffet – one of the world's richest's individuals. POSCO has also demanded a dedicated railway line to the port – that means additional land demands. Further the project requires at least 2,000 acres for a township for its employees, and diversion of drinking water from the Jobra barrage for industrial use. All this has been agreed to by the Odisha Government when the project MOU was signed in 2005, but the people have been kept in the dark of the real consequences of such loot of India's non-renewable natural resources.


The Making of a 'Right-less People' by Jairam Ramesh


Over 13,000 acres is merely the demand of land for realising POSCO's dream venture in India. Thousands of families will be dislocated, and suffer irreparable damage to their lives and livelihoods. It is time we appreciated that this steel-power-port-township-mining project is the single largest industrial venture conceived in recent memory, and that such scale of investment will be done only because we are gifting highly expensive and excellent iron ore for POSCO to make stupendous profits. There is absolutely no benefit for India in this deal, and what POSCO will leave behind, if they succeed at all, is a lot of fly ash, destroyed ecologically sensitive coastal and forest environments and thousands of people in misery.


To help appreciate the full consequences of the POSCO investment in India, Environment Support Group, a not-for-profit public interest research, training, campaign and advocacy initiative, has produced a study entitled "Tearing through the Water Landscape: Evaluating the environmental and social consequences of POSCO project in Odisha, India", which is co-authored by Leo Saldanha and Bhargavi Rao. This study was undertaken at the request of POSCO Pratirodh Sangram Samiti (POSCO Project Resistance Movement), leading the opposition against the POSCO project. The study reveals on the basis of extensive review of historical, ecological, social and economic evidence that Jairam Ramesh's support for POSCO is nothing but a highly condemnable act that legitimises fraud and corruption in environmental decision making. As a result, the study reveals that Ramesh has today become the architect of one of India's greatest planned disasters that begins its ominous initiative by turning the affected communities into a 'rightless people', as their fundamental rights have been snatched on the basis of "faith and trust" in Odisha Government's lies.


An electronic copy of this study is accessible at www.esgindia.org


Environment Support Group, 1572, 36th Cross, Banashankari II Stage, Bangalore 560070. INDIA

Tel: 91-80-26713559~61 Email: esg@esgindia.org Web: www.esgindia.org


Email of authors of this study:


Leo Saldanha: leo@esgindia.org

Bhargavi S. Rao: bhargavi@esgindia.org




--
Environment, Social Justice and Governance Initiatives Environment Support Group Trust 1572, 36th Cross, Banashankari II Stage Bangalore 560070. INDIA Tel: 91-80-26713559-61 Voice/Fax: 91-80-26713316 Email: esg@esgindia.org Web: www.esgindia.org



--
P.K.Sivanandan
Chairman
Kerala State Scheduled Castes & Scheduled Tribes Commission
Thiruvananthapuram
Tel 0471-2362308
sivanandanpk@gmail.com