The issue isn't about Gogoi's action at all.
In the heat of the moment and prevailing circumstances he did
something whch has ample historical precedent (ie the taking civilian
hostages and even killing them as reprisal, against partisan action -
partisans being deemed as outside the scope of conventions). We can
never know why he did it, perhaps he was badly outnumbered and chose
the cowards way out to save his own skin ?
What is up for discussion is the COAS's command interference in
commending Gogoi when the CoI (Court of Inquiry) (hastily convened and
concluded 2 days after COAS' interference) was still to pronounce
their findings on Gogoi's actions.
Kashmir is increasingly turning into India's Palestine problem, and
it's well known that Israel is training our boys in such
'innovations'.
On 6/16/17, Karan Kharb <karankharb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Dhingra,
>
> Your argument is, no doubt, correct. Let us assume Dhar was indeed
> "innocent" and, legally speaking, Gogoi was wrong. But the situation before
> Major Gogoi denied him the luxuries of law in a mileu that demanded
> immediate action. It required him to rescue a group of polling staff and a
> handful paramilitary personnel surrounded - virtually taken hostage - by an
> irate mob menacingly threatening to lynch them.
>
> In such an emergency, Gogoi had only three options:
>
> 1. Leave the entrapped hostages at the mercy of the enraged mob and run
> away from the scene leaving them at the mercy of the manifestly angry mob.
>
> 2. Launch a shooting assault on the angry mob and rescue the hostages
> leaving behind many dead and injured in the mob.
>
> 3. Ignore the luxury protocol of legality for a while and think of a method
> that would minimise harm. Quickly, he nnovated a method that is not found
> in the law books. It helped him to avoid opening of fire and enabled him
> to rescue the endangered polling staff and paramilitary personnel to
> safety.
>
> The so-called victim "Dhar" helped Gogoi in accomplishing a complex task
> that otherwise could have ended in a massacre.
>
> Sitting far away from the danger zones in the safe and luxurient environs
> of a hotel in New Delhi it is cruel to find faults with soldiers fightibg
> and dying to defend this country in this invisible war on India. More
> particularly, finding faults without suggesting a better, more effective
> course is no more than a dirty mischief aimed at demoralising our troops
> and boosting the spirits of the proxy soldiers of the enemy. You are
> gunning the Army only for the "apparent wrong" without suggesting the
> "right course", if any.
>
> We all know, Gogoi opted for Option 3. Just tell us what you would do if
> you were in Gogoi's shoes with same grave stuation staring at you with an
> impending lynching of the polling staff in the offiing?
>
> Which option should Gogoi have chosen?
>
> Please think again. If there were any respect for the "Rule of Law" in the
> Kashmir Valley, there would be no need for the Army there. We all know it
> as well that the Army, the last resort of the Nation, comes in only after
> the laws and rules have failed to let Democracy proceed and flourish. No
> wonder, world over the governments, diplomats and piliticians still agree
> and endorse - even if reluctantly - the dictum of history: "Laws are silent
> in times of war!"
>
> Ponder a little more on the oft-quoted phrase in the courts of law -
> "*letter
> and spirit*". Gogoi did not care the "*letter*" but he followed the "
> *spirit*" of law which stoked his conscience to save innocent human lives.
> If I were "Dhar", I would rather suggest to Major Gogoi to use me in the
> same manner if such a method could avoid a massacre that was then imminent.
> I thank Dhar for his help.
>
> I beg you all to please think again; think differently keeping the national
> interest uppermost in mind.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Karan Kharb
> *Turning Point Publishers*
> 9818047092
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2017 23:12, "K.S. Dhingra" <ks_dhingra@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Harwant,
>
>
> My views on three issues raised in your mail are as under.
>
>
> Under the Anglo-Saxon legal system, which India follows, a person is said
> to be innocent unless proved guilty before a court of law. Till the time
> Army took the unprecedented step Darwas not declared guilty of any offence
> by any court. As such, Dar is to be considered innocent.
>
>
> The question involved is of the human rights of the citizens of the
> country. It is immaterial whether he was paraded in five villages or twenty
> villages or twenty-five villages. The mere fact that he was tied with the
> jeep by an organ of the State is a matter of serious concern since it
> involves infringement of civil liberties of the person concerned.
>
> The subsequent act of handing over of Dar by Army to police, even if
> correct, does not validate the acts of violation of human rights of Dar by
> an authority not competent to do so under the law of the land.
>
> In the light of above, I tend to agree with M G Kapoor who himself is an
> army veteran.
>
> K S Dhingra
> 9211777884
Friday, June 16, 2017
Thursday, June 15, 2017
Re: [IAC#RG] MODERATION NOTICE - Abuse will not be tolerated by IAC
Why are individual still writing on this site in non corruption case.Remove few from the list,who writes on subjects other than that for which IAC was started.I think the subject on Maj Gogai subject has nothing to do about corruption.Remove the individual writing on this subject
With regards & best wishes,
Yours,
Geepees
On Friday, June 16, 2017 7:02 AM, Rajinder Dalvi <rajinder.dalvi@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a welcome step indeed because it was revolting to see the
lumpenization within the ex-servicemen ranks and their rabid/Pavolvian
responses to any criticism of the armed forces or their current hero
Modi.
The unspoken message here is that our armed forces have long been
conditioned to view all Indian Muslims as either Pakistanis or
traitors or both and dealt with accordingly. It would have been far
better if Major Gogoi did the job he was trained, paid and called in
for - ie. to first warn the mob and then open fire on anybody
disregarding his authority, instead of pansywansying on about how many
live he allegedly saved. Major Gogoi has brought dishonour and
disgrace on the Army by exposing it to international ridicule as a
weak and ineffective force reluctant to use the restrained violence we
are supposed to inflict by our regulations.
On 6/15/17, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> To all IAC subscribers
>
> The India Against Corrution is a patriotic movement which is deeply
> committed to the Hindustani nation and its institiutions and
> especially our armed forces and its traditions.
>
> No disrespect to our armed forces or to our members will be tolerated
> by misusing our resources.
>
> Abuse, especially politically couched abuse, of comments posted by our
> members will not be tolerated either. We do not permit the sort of
> trolling which is commonplace nowadays on most social media sites to
> silence non-mainstream views, so please don't try it here.
>
> Because this is not a social media site (and posting to the list is a
> privilege), a few subscribers who have tried to send emails of a
> highly abusive nature via our list have been removed from the IAC to
> maintain our standards of being a clean and decent forum where decent
> free speech of all forms is.greatly valued
>
> sincerely
>
> Sarbajit Roy
lumpenization within the ex-servicemen ranks and their rabid/Pavolvian
responses to any criticism of the armed forces or their current hero
Modi.
The unspoken message here is that our armed forces have long been
conditioned to view all Indian Muslims as either Pakistanis or
traitors or both and dealt with accordingly. It would have been far
better if Major Gogoi did the job he was trained, paid and called in
for - ie. to first warn the mob and then open fire on anybody
disregarding his authority, instead of pansywansying on about how many
live he allegedly saved. Major Gogoi has brought dishonour and
disgrace on the Army by exposing it to international ridicule as a
weak and ineffective force reluctant to use the restrained violence we
are supposed to inflict by our regulations.
On 6/15/17, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> To all IAC subscribers
>
> The India Against Corrution is a patriotic movement which is deeply
> committed to the Hindustani nation and its institiutions and
> especially our armed forces and its traditions.
>
> No disrespect to our armed forces or to our members will be tolerated
> by misusing our resources.
>
> Abuse, especially politically couched abuse, of comments posted by our
> members will not be tolerated either. We do not permit the sort of
> trolling which is commonplace nowadays on most social media sites to
> silence non-mainstream views, so please don't try it here.
>
> Because this is not a social media site (and posting to the list is a
> privilege), a few subscribers who have tried to send emails of a
> highly abusive nature via our list have been removed from the IAC to
> maintain our standards of being a clean and decent forum where decent
> free speech of all forms is.greatly valued
>
> sincerely
>
> Sarbajit Roy
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Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His Men
Respected Friends of Excellent Professional Backgrounds,
Like you all, i too am a nationalist... i have desisted getting into the fray, respecting the stiff disciplines of this unique Forum, with a highly dependable leadership. Period.
But now, have to share my piece, briefly...before i move on (B. 1934). In 1947, we like many among you, had to move away from the other side (Lahore) to our own, here. For our safety (elders decided) + on a/c of our nationalism. i have served foreign agencies and retired from UN in '94.
"Human Rights" have to be protected and commended, under the direst of circumstances...certainly; also by our armed forces, police and by each one of us, in positions of some authority, more-so.
Sire, under the direst of circumstances in J&K, lacs of our citizens (pandits) had to seek refuge elsewhere, extremist-Indians there have over years indulged in death & destruction, burning over 40 schools for their own children. Our men, scores of them have laid down their lives for us and our India, ever since 1947...even earlier. The said civilian situation has become a "nasoor" over the past 7 decades. The extremists, self-appointed, paid by our own fiscal assets + surreptitious funding by terrorist organisations from that end, have had a free hand ! Our own 5 th columns have been funded & feted by us here, in complete ignorance. Suchlike 'debates' thus, force me to say my piece.
Young Gogoi at the "front" helped to save lives by his, even most odd act, in a civilian situation. For years, the forces have had to deal with the situation, under the direst of circumstances. Politicians from here + locally have failed us all...perennially. Maybe the COAS was too quick in his open cum public awards in an act that goes against army disciplines.
i am not the one to shower praise or undercut the said act. BUT lives have been saved...all said and done, under the direst of circumstances, is all i can be allowed to say & share.
Solve J&K before it becomes an Indo-Pak-Sino cancerous growth for the next 71 years ...! That remains the hope of all Indians, for sure.
Thank you for listening.
devinder chopra/ UN retiree
***
On 16 June 2017 at 00:13, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:
Your email does not sound hilarious. You do not seem to get at the main point - that of "violation of human rights". You also do not seem to get the point of COAS act of commending Gogoi. Imagine yourself being tied on the bonnet of the jeep and paraded! Or your near and dear so tied and paraded! Act of Gogoi was "Might is right". You also do not take the point of Army Chief not having the guts to stand up to the political bosses and tell them that it is not Army's job to tackle the civil riots in a situation like that existing in Kashmir. You also do not wish to take the point that no impartial and independent investigations had been done to know the truth before the Army Chief commended Gogoi's act. You also do not seem to value the human rights and that the life and liberty of a person is as important as that of any other or others. What if what Dar is saying comes out to be true? Would that not deter Kashmiris from going to cast their vote and thus take part in the democratic process of the Country? You also do not seem to understand that this one act of Gogoi would further alienate Kashmiri people who are already alienated and would be a step further in their getting more and more anti-Indian. You also do not seem to understand that Kashmiris are OUR OWN PEOPLE AND NOT ALIENS. You also do not seem to understand the value of liberty nor you wish to understand that we are living in the 21st Century - and not in medieval ages. YOU DO NOT PERHAPS KNOW THAT MEANS ARE AS IMPORTANT AS THE ENDS AND THAT TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE ONE RIGHT.I really pity.MGOn Thu, 15 Jun 2017 at 7:23 PM, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 at 7:09 PM, Anand Gangoli <anandgangoli22@gmail.com> wrote:In all the correspondence so far, I have not seen anyone criticizing the stone throwers. Are we all trying to be politically correct ? Please do read Lt Gen Harwants e mail above on what actually seems to have happened. Action by Maj Gogoi has saved a large number of lives. At least no one so far has denied that so far. Nor has anyone suggested a better course of action, even with hindsight. Maj Gogoi could easily have shot his way out of the predicament, which would have resulted in the death of a number of stone throwers, and possibly also some innocents. Instead he chose an unconventional way, which worked, and saved lives. All credit to him. To compare his action to that of Gen Dyer who was responsible for killing hundreds is puerile.Mr Ravindran has put it very aptly. You can not stop a buffalo by reciting Vedas. Nor can you stop stone throwers by showing them a book of law. If I were to choose between saving innocent lives by breaking the law, and causing death by sticking to the law book, I would choose the first option. What would you choose?Anand S GangoliPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.netOn Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:33 AM, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Sir,Greetings of the day.I had read your article. I wanted to respond there and then but then restrained myself as I had entirely divergent views.You are right when you say "how do we know what Dhar is saying is correct". At the same time my counter question is "how do we know what Major Gogoi is saying is correct?". It is the word of one against another. The whole issue need to have been investigated by an impartial investigating agency. And pardon me Sir, if someone suggests that Army Cs of I are impartial, he is shying away from the truth. Sir, you have seen more number of years in the Army. But I too have seen 21 years in the Army and over 34 years in the profession. I have had personal experience to say that Army Courts of Inquiry as also Courts Martial are anything but impartial! They are subjected to command influence and none other than the Apex Court has gone on record to say so in PP Singh Vs UOI, AIR 1983 SC 1413 (I am overseas and do hope I have given correct citation). Who could know it better than you, Sir, that they are subjected to command influence.Moreover, whatever be the situation, no one has the right to deprive a person of life and liberty without the process established by law.If Dar was innocent he ought not to have been captured, tied and paraded, leave alone for five hours, not even for a single minute, whatever be the compulsions or whatever be the situation. How can the life and liberty of some others can be more important than the life and liberty of Dar? (This can only be answered if one puts himself in the shoes of Dar. As the saying goes "only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches").If, on the other hand, he was not innocent he ought to have been arrested and tried as per law. Period,Sir, we are in 21st century and love our liberty more than our life.Be that as it may, the illegality got compounded by the immaturish act of Army Chief when he decorated Gogoi with his Commendation Card. This act of his was adding insult to injury. What message he is trying to give to the people of Kashmir? Will such act of COAS not further alienate the people of Kashmir?Well, having been in profession for more number of years than in the service, I value freedom of speech, right of an individual to life and liberty and impartiality.Sorry Sir, I very respectfully disagree with you for which you would, as my senior, pardon me.With profound regards,MGOn Wed, 14 Jun 2017 at 7:03 PM, harwant singh <gen_harwant@hotmail.com> wrote:My dear MG, how do we know for certain that Dhar was innocent? Also how do we know that he was paraded around across, some say five villages, other put the figure at 20 and you say 25 villages. I learn that he was handed over to the police.
Ofcourse crowd control etc is not the job of the army, but with so much police (state and central ) call is still being made to the army. Further what come out of the Valley requires plenty of SALT for its digestion. I say this with long experience of serving in the Valley.
You might read through my article on the subject. It appeared in The Citizen.
Regards and best wishes. Harwant.
Human Shield
Lt-Gen Harwant Singh ( Retd )
Many a commentator has drawn a parallel of Major Nitin Leetul Gogoi's action of carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep, with torture of Mau Mau terrorists of Nairobi, while some others have equated this action with the massacre at My Lai by U S troops in Vietnam. Even a parallel has been drawn with Jallianwalla Bagh tragedy.
Some others have quoted Vienna Convention on violation of human rights, where using humans as a shield is considered violation of this Convention and a war crime. Then there are the likes of Omar Abdullah, now out of power, who have gone overboard on this action and exaggerated the incident to the extent that the man on the bumper of a jeep was driven through a number of villages. Further, the action violated citizen's fundamental right and was against Constitution's spirit. Does someone who casts stones at security forces not forego, his right to be treated gently. To contend that Farooq Ahmed Dar had cast his vote in the morning, so it did not matter if he turned into a stone pelter in the afternoon, is simply absurd. .
There were a dozen policemen and election staff at the polling both, surrounded as they were by a few hundred strong bloodthirsty mob, when a desperate call was made to the army detachment for rescuing them. The policemen in the polling booth were armed with rifles and they could have shot their way out, killing dozen odd rioters. At another end , this military detachment could have used firearms, killing few and injuring many more and rescued those trapped in the polling booth.
Since the call had been made to Major Gogoi to rescue those trapped in that polling booth, he had two options. One, to use force to kill few and wound many to disperse the crowd and rescue those trapped, or think of some innovative method, whereby casualties could be avoided and yet those hopelessly trapped could be rescued.
Some of us who sit in secure environments, perhaps under air-conditioned comfort, cannot visualize the pressure, stress and the heat generated, when one is face to face with a bloodthirsty mob and called upon to take an instant decision.
Carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep has been dubbed as human shield, which it is claimed, is a serious violation of human rights and human dignity etc. The fact is that he shielded nothing and no one. That jeep itself and those following it were not shielded and lay open to stone pelters and those with petrol bombs.
What the Geneva Convention refers to is, using prisoners, civilians and women upfront to face enemy fire, while troops move behind the cover of those being placed up front. To compare carrying this stone pelter with human shield as envisaged by many a commentator, is giving free reign to wild imagination. It is the anti-national elements in the Valley who have often put women up front, when facing prospect of action by security forces.
This simple action of carrying a stone pelter in this manner, lowered the tension and became a source of amusement, mirth, laughter, dropping of stones and clapping of hands by the otherwise, murderous mob.
Many in this incident found an opportunity for army bashing. Some others have strongly criticized the army chief for commending the actions of this officer. While others have drawn a parallel with fall of Roman Empire and quote from Russian poet Anna Akhmatova, that only the, 'dead smile.' However in this case the mob, not just smiled but laughed.
What the Indian Army is facing in J and K, more so in the Valley, is the cumulative failure of the Indian state to resolve the issues and poor, indifferent, thoroughly corrupt and inefficient government in the state. To this one can add the nurturing of dishonest and anti-national elements : providing them security and funds by Indian government, besides Pak ISI.
The prevailing conditions in the valley and the onerous tasks of restoring peace, handed down to the army, requires patience, innovation and out of the box solutions, backed by a political will and sagacity. Uncalled for criticism of major Gogoi's action further exacerbate the anti-India bias and feeds the call for, 'Azadi.'
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net > on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 7:22 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.netThe question here is not whether there was any other or better solution. The question is whether it was legal to make an innocent person captive, tie him up with the jeep and parade him around 26 villages for over five hours. (Put this to your own self and answer truthfully if you, your kith and kin or near and dear had been similarly tied and paraded for five hours and the reason given to you was that it was to save the security personnel at the polling booth!)
What was the aim of parading him through 26 villages? Was it to "intimidate" the Kashmiris? If so, was it correct to terrorise your OWN people?
If Dar was a terrorist he should have been arrested and not tied and paraded, as was done by Major Gogoi.
Please remember means are as important as the ends.
If we believe Dar's version that he dared go to the polling booth to cast his vote against the dicta of anti-nationals (he purportedly showed even the indelible ink mark on his finger), then he was definitely made a soft target for those who were instigating and even threatening people not to vote. Thus Dar's life was put to risk.
Basically to handle civil riots is not the job of the Army and Army is not equipped for it. It is the job of the civil police which is equipped with water guns and smoke bombs to disperse the rioting crowd. So, the Army Chief should have the guts to tell his political bosses that it is not Army's job to curb civil riots or disperse mob.
In as far as comparing Major Gogoi with Gen Dyer is concerned, no two situations can be or are identical. In fact Major Gogoi's action was even worse than that of Gen Dyer in as much as wheras Dyer was acting against Indians (other than his OWN British people), Gogoi was acting against the Kashmiris, our OWN people.
What we have heard is only Gogoi's version. The very fact that an Army spokesperson said that Army Chief was Day to day knowing as to what was happening in the Court of Inquiry goes to show that the court of inquiry was not "Independent" and suffered from command influence.
Even if we do grant Major Gogoi the benefit of having acted as "he thought" the situation demanded, to rescue the security staff at the polling booth, once that had been achieved, he should have released Dar. This is without prejudice to my contention that his very act of making Dar a captive was by itself wrong; whatever be the reasons.
BUT CERTAINLY ARMY CHIEF's ACTION OF NOT ONLY APPROVING BUT EVEN REWARDING GOGOI IS VERY WRONG. THIS WOULD SEND SIGNALS TO YOUNG OFFICERS TO DO SOMILAR ACTS IN THE HOPE OF GETTING REWARDED.
I certainly do not approve Gogoi's act and Army Chief's act of rewarding Gogoi.
This incident will go down as a BLACK SPOT in the anals of Indian Army.
MG
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 at 7:16 PM, m.g.r. rajan <mgr_rajan@hotmail.com> wrote:
In all fairness, one should leave decision making, for the action to be taken, on the war-front, or battle-filed or ground-zero to the man there. He is risking his life and limb following orders. Certainly, our army men are not trained to be sadists, who get pleasure by ill-treating or harrassing naive civilians. Since we may not have an independent, unbiased version of what actually happened that day, give Maj. Gogoi the benefit of doubt for his action. Certainly, his action did not escalate the violence in that area that day nor was the person tied to the jeep hurt. To say that, 'an innocent bystander was tied to a jeep and paraded along' is not correct or ethical in the least.
R. Rajan
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net > on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 9:52:53 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.netAbsolute truth. I entirely agree. Even Gen HS Panag and General Hooda agree with my views. The analogy I gave of the present incident to be similar to the action of Gen Dyer in Jallianwala Bagh is ascribed to by these Generals, both of whom are distinguished Generals.
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 at 2:46 AM, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:
Shared via NDTV News App (Android - ndtv.com/android | iPhone - ndtv.com/iPhone )
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Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His Men
Dear Mr Dhingra,
Your argument is, no doubt, correct. Let us assume Dhar was indeed "innocent" and, legally speaking, Gogoi was wrong. But the situation before Major Gogoi denied him the luxuries of law in a mileu that demanded immediate action. It required him to rescue a group of polling staff and a handful paramilitary personnel surrounded - virtually taken hostage - by an irate mob menacingly threatening to lynch them.
In such an emergency, Gogoi had only three options:
1. Leave the entrapped hostages at the mercy of the enraged mob and run away from the scene leaving them at the mercy of the manifestly angry mob.
2. Launch a shooting assault on the angry mob and rescue the hostages leaving behind many dead and injured in the mob.
3. Ignore the luxury protocol of legality for a while and think of a method that would minimise harm. Quickly, he nnovated a method that is not found in the law books. It helped him to avoid opening of fire and enabled him to rescue the endangered polling staff and paramilitary personnel to safety.
The so-called victim "Dhar" helped Gogoi in accomplishing a complex task that otherwise could have ended in a massacre.
Sitting far away from the danger zones in the safe and luxurient environs of a hotel in New Delhi it is cruel to find faults with soldiers fightibg and dying to defend this country in this invisible war on India. More particularly, finding faults without suggesting a better, more effective course is no more than a dirty mischief aimed at demoralising our troops and boosting the spirits of the proxy soldiers of the enemy. You are gunning the Army only for the "apparent wrong" without suggesting the "right course", if any.
We all know, Gogoi opted for Option 3. Just tell us what you would do if you were in Gogoi's shoes with same grave stuation staring at you with an impending lynching of the polling staff in the offiing?
Which option should Gogoi have chosen?
Please think again. If there were any respect for the "Rule of Law" in the Kashmir Valley, there would be no need for the Army there. We all know it as well that the Army, the last resort of the Nation, comes in only after the laws and rules have failed to let Democracy proceed and flourish. No wonder, world over the governments, diplomats and piliticians still agree and endorse - even if reluctantly - the dictum of history: "Laws are silent in times of war!"
Ponder a little more on the oft-quoted phrase in the courts of law - "letter and spirit". Gogoi did not care the "letter" but he followed the "spirit" of law which stoked his conscience to save innocent human lives. If I were "Dhar", I would rather suggest to Major Gogoi to use me in the same manner if such a method could avoid a massacre that was then imminent. I thank Dhar for his help.
I beg you all to please think again; think differently keeping the national interest uppermost in mind.
Best regards,
Karan Kharb
Turning Point Publishers
9818047092
On 15 Jun 2017 23:12, "K.S. Dhingra" <ks_dhingra@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Harwant,
My views on three issues raised in your mail are as under.
Under the Anglo-Saxon legal system, which India follows, a person is said to be innocent unless proved guilty before a court of law. Till the time Army took the unprecedented step Darwas not declared guilty of any offence by any court. As such, Dar is to be considered innocent.
The question involved is of the human rights of the citizens of the country. It is immaterial whether he was paraded in five villages or twenty villages or twenty-five villages. The mere fact that he was tied with the jeep by an organ of the State is a matter of serious concern since it involves infringement of civil liberties of the person concerned.
The subsequent act of handing over of Dar by Army to police, even if correct, does not validate the acts of violation of human rights of Dar by an authority not competent to do so under the law of the land.
In the light of above, I tend to agree with M G Kapoor who himself is an army veteran.
K S Dhingra
9211777884
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net > on behalf of harwant singh <gen_harwant@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:56 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenMy dear MG, how do we know for certain that Dhar was innocent? Also how do we know that he was paraded around across, some say five villages, other put the figure at 20 and you say 25 villages. I learn that he was handed over to the police.
Ofcourse crowd control etc is not the job of the army, but with so much police (state and central ) call is still being made to the army. Further what come out of the Valley requires plenty of SALT for its digestion. I say this with long experience of serving in the Valley.
You might read through my article on the subject. It appeared in The Citizen.
Regards and best wishes. Harwant.
Human Shield
Lt-Gen Harwant Singh ( Retd )
Many a commentator has drawn a parallel of Major Nitin Leetul Gogoi's action of carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep, with torture of Mau Mau terrorists of Nairobi, while some others have equated this action with the massacre at My Lai by U S troops in Vietnam. Even a parallel has been drawn with Jallianwalla Bagh tragedy.
Some others have quoted Vienna Convention on violation of human rights, where using humans as a shield is considered violation of this Convention and a war crime. Then there are the likes of Omar Abdullah, now out of power, who have gone overboard on this action and exaggerated the incident to the extent that the man on the bumper of a jeep was driven through a number of villages. Further, the action violated citizen's fundamental right and was against Constitution's spirit. Does someone who casts stones at security forces not forego, his right to be treated gently. To contend that Farooq Ahmed Dar had cast his vote in the morning, so it did not matter if he turned into a stone pelter in the afternoon, is simply absurd. .
There were a dozen policemen and election staff at the polling both, surrounded as they were by a few hundred strong bloodthirsty mob, when a desperate call was made to the army detachment for rescuing them. The policemen in the polling booth were armed with rifles and they could have shot their way out, killing dozen odd rioters. At another end , this military detachment could have used firearms, killing few and injuring many more and rescued those trapped in the polling booth.
Since the call had been made to Major Gogoi to rescue those trapped in that polling booth, he had two options. One, to use force to kill few and wound many to disperse the crowd and rescue those trapped, or think of some innovative method, whereby casualties could be avoided and yet those hopelessly trapped could be rescued.
Some of us who sit in secure environments, perhaps under air-conditioned comfort, cannot visualize the pressure, stress and the heat generated, when one is face to face with a bloodthirsty mob and called upon to take an instant decision.
Carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep has been dubbed as human shield, which it is claimed, is a serious violation of human rights and human dignity etc. The fact is that he shielded nothing and no one. That jeep itself and those following it were not shielded and lay open to stone pelters and those with petrol bombs.
What the Geneva Convention refers to is, using prisoners, civilians and women upfront to face enemy fire, while troops move behind the cover of those being placed up front. To compare carrying this stone pelter with human shield as envisaged by many a commentator, is giving free reign to wild imagination. It is the anti-national elements in the Valley who have often put women up front, when facing prospect of action by security forces.
This simple action of carrying a stone pelter in this manner, lowered the tension and became a source of amusement, mirth, laughter, dropping of stones and clapping of hands by the otherwise, murderous mob.
Many in this incident found an opportunity for army bashing. Some others have strongly criticized the army chief for commending the actions of this officer. While others have drawn a parallel with fall of Roman Empire and quote from Russian poet Anna Akhmatova, that only the, 'dead smile.' However in this case the mob, not just smiled but laughed.
What the Indian Army is facing in J and K, more so in the Valley, is the cumulative failure of the Indian state to resolve the issues and poor, indifferent, thoroughly corrupt and inefficient government in the state. To this one can add the nurturing of dishonest and anti-national elements : providing them security and funds by Indian government, besides Pak ISI.
The prevailing conditions in the valley and the onerous tasks of restoring peace, handed down to the army, requires patience, innovation and out of the box solutions, backed by a political will and sagacity. Uncalled for criticism of major Gogoi's action further exacerbate the anti-India bias and feeds the call for, 'Azadi.'
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net > on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 7:22 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenThe question here is not whether there was any other or better solution. The question is whether it was legal to make an innocent person captive, tie him up with the jeep and parade him around 26 villages for over five hours. (Put this to your own self and answer truthfully if you, your kith and kin or near and dear had been similarly tied and paraded for five hours and the reason given to you was that it was to save the security personnel at the polling booth!)
What was the aim of parading him through 26 villages? Was it to "intimidate" the Kashmiris? If so, was it correct to terrorise your OWN people?
If Dar was a terrorist he should have been arrested and not tied and paraded, as was done by Major Gogoi.
Please remember means are as important as the ends.
If we believe Dar's version that he dared go to the polling booth to cast his vote against the dicta of anti-nationals (he purportedly showed even the indelible ink mark on his finger), then he was definitely made a soft target for those who were instigating and even threatening people not to vote. Thus Dar's life was put to risk.
Basically to handle civil riots is not the job of the Army and Army is not equipped for it. It is the job of the civil police which is equipped with water guns and smoke bombs to disperse the rioting crowd. So, the Army Chief should have the guts to tell his political bosses that it is not Army's job to curb civil riots or disperse mob.
In as far as comparing Major Gogoi with Gen Dyer is concerned, no two situations can be or are identical. In fact Major Gogoi's action was even worse than that of Gen Dyer in as much as wheras Dyer was acting against Indians (other than his OWN British people), Gogoi was acting against the Kashmiris, our OWN people.
What we have heard is only Gogoi's version. The very fact that an Army spokesperson said that Army Chief was Day to day knowing as to what was happening in the Court of Inquiry goes to show that the court of inquiry was not "Independent" and suffered from command influence.
Even if we do grant Major Gogoi the benefit of having acted as "he thought" the situation demanded, to rescue the security staff at the polling booth, once that had been achieved, he should have released Dar. This is without prejudice to my contention that his very act of making Dar a captive was by itself wrong; whatever be the reasons.
BUT CERTAINLY ARMY CHIEF's ACTION OF NOT ONLY APPROVING BUT EVEN REWARDING GOGOI IS VERY WRONG. THIS WOULD SEND SIGNALS TO YOUNG OFFICERS TO DO SOMILAR ACTS IN THE HOPE OF GETTING REWARDED.
I certainly do not approve Gogoi's act and Army Chief's act of rewarding Gogoi.
This incident will go down as a BLACK SPOT in the anals of Indian Army.
MG
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 at 7:16 PM, m.g.r. rajan <mgr_rajan@hotmail.com> wrote:
In all fairness, one should leave decision making, for the action to be taken, on the war-front, or battle-filed or ground-zero to the man there. He is risking his life and limb following orders. Certainly, our army men are not trained to be sadists, who get pleasure by ill-treating or harrassing naive civilians. Since we may not have an independent, unbiased version of what actually happened that day, give Maj. Gogoi the benefit of doubt for his action. Certainly, his action did not escalate the violence in that area that day nor was the person tied to the jeep hurt. To say that, 'an innocent bystander was tied to a jeep and paraded along' is not correct or ethical in the least.
R. Rajan
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net > on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 9:52:53 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.netAbsolute truth. I entirely agree. Even Gen HS Panag and General Hooda agree with my views. The analogy I gave of the present incident to be similar to the action of Gen Dyer in Jallianwala Bagh is ascribed to by these Generals, both of whom are distinguished Generals.
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 at 2:46 AM, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: [IAC#RG] MODERATION NOTICE - Abuse will not be tolerated by IAC
This is a welcome step indeed because it was revolting to see the
lumpenization within the ex-servicemen ranks and their rabid/Pavolvian
responses to any criticism of the armed forces or their current hero
Modi.
The unspoken message here is that our armed forces have long been
conditioned to view all Indian Muslims as either Pakistanis or
traitors or both and dealt with accordingly. It would have been far
better if Major Gogoi did the job he was trained, paid and called in
for - ie. to first warn the mob and then open fire on anybody
disregarding his authority, instead of pansywansying on about how many
live he allegedly saved. Major Gogoi has brought dishonour and
disgrace on the Army by exposing it to international ridicule as a
weak and ineffective force reluctant to use the restrained violence we
are supposed to inflict by our regulations.
On 6/15/17, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> To all IAC subscribers
>
> The India Against Corrution is a patriotic movement which is deeply
> committed to the Hindustani nation and its institiutions and
> especially our armed forces and its traditions.
>
> No disrespect to our armed forces or to our members will be tolerated
> by misusing our resources.
>
> Abuse, especially politically couched abuse, of comments posted by our
> members will not be tolerated either. We do not permit the sort of
> trolling which is commonplace nowadays on most social media sites to
> silence non-mainstream views, so please don't try it here.
>
> Because this is not a social media site (and posting to the list is a
> privilege), a few subscribers who have tried to send emails of a
> highly abusive nature via our list have been removed from the IAC to
> maintain our standards of being a clean and decent forum where decent
> free speech of all forms is.greatly valued
>
> sincerely
>
> Sarbajit Roy
lumpenization within the ex-servicemen ranks and their rabid/Pavolvian
responses to any criticism of the armed forces or their current hero
Modi.
The unspoken message here is that our armed forces have long been
conditioned to view all Indian Muslims as either Pakistanis or
traitors or both and dealt with accordingly. It would have been far
better if Major Gogoi did the job he was trained, paid and called in
for - ie. to first warn the mob and then open fire on anybody
disregarding his authority, instead of pansywansying on about how many
live he allegedly saved. Major Gogoi has brought dishonour and
disgrace on the Army by exposing it to international ridicule as a
weak and ineffective force reluctant to use the restrained violence we
are supposed to inflict by our regulations.
On 6/15/17, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> To all IAC subscribers
>
> The India Against Corrution is a patriotic movement which is deeply
> committed to the Hindustani nation and its institiutions and
> especially our armed forces and its traditions.
>
> No disrespect to our armed forces or to our members will be tolerated
> by misusing our resources.
>
> Abuse, especially politically couched abuse, of comments posted by our
> members will not be tolerated either. We do not permit the sort of
> trolling which is commonplace nowadays on most social media sites to
> silence non-mainstream views, so please don't try it here.
>
> Because this is not a social media site (and posting to the list is a
> privilege), a few subscribers who have tried to send emails of a
> highly abusive nature via our list have been removed from the IAC to
> maintain our standards of being a clean and decent forum where decent
> free speech of all forms is.greatly valued
>
> sincerely
>
> Sarbajit Roy
Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His Men
Your email does not sound hilarious. You do not seem to get at the main point - that of "violation of human rights". You also do not seem to get the point of COAS act of commending Gogoi. Imagine yourself being tied on the bonnet of the jeep and paraded! Or your near and dear so tied and paraded! Act of Gogoi was "Might is right". You also do not take the point of Army Chief not having the guts to stand up to the political bosses and tell them that it is not Army's job to tackle the civil riots in a situation like that existing in Kashmir. You also do not wish to take the point that no impartial and independent investigations had been done to know the truth before the Army Chief commended Gogoi's act. You also do not seem to value the human rights and that the life and liberty of a person is as important as that of any other or others. What if what Dar is saying comes out to be true? Would that not deter Kashmiris from going to cast their vote and thus take part in the democratic process of the Country? You also do not seem to understand that this one act of Gogoi would further alienate Kashmiri people who are already alienated and would be a step further in their getting more and more anti-Indian. You also do not seem to understand that Kashmiris are OUR OWN PEOPLE AND NOT ALIENS. You also do not seem to understand the value of liberty nor you wish to understand that we are living in the 21st Century - and not in medieval ages. YOU DO NOT PERHAPS KNOW THAT MEANS ARE AS IMPORTANT AS THE ENDS AND THAT TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE ONE RIGHT.
I really pity.
MG
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 at 7:23 PM, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 at 7:09 PM, Anand Gangoli <anandgangoli22@gmail.com> wrote:In all the correspondence so far, I have not seen anyone criticizing the stone throwers. Are we all trying to be politically correct ? Please do read Lt Gen Harwants e mail above on what actually seems to have happened. Action by Maj Gogoi has saved a large number of lives. At least no one so far has denied that so far. Nor has anyone suggested a better course of action, even with hindsight. Maj Gogoi could easily have shot his way out of the predicament, which would have resulted in the death of a number of stone throwers, and possibly also some innocents. Instead he chose an unconventional way, which worked, and saved lives. All credit to him. To compare his action to that of Gen Dyer who was responsible for killing hundreds is puerile.Mr Ravindran has put it very aptly. You can not stop a buffalo by reciting Vedas. Nor can you stop stone throwers by showing them a book of law. If I were to choose between saving innocent lives by breaking the law, and causing death by sticking to the law book, I would choose the first option. What would you choose?Anand S GangoliPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:33 AM, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Sir,Greetings of the day.I had read your article. I wanted to respond there and then but then restrained myself as I had entirely divergent views.You are right when you say "how do we know what Dhar is saying is correct". At the same time my counter question is "how do we know what Major Gogoi is saying is correct?". It is the word of one against another. The whole issue need to have been investigated by an impartial investigating agency. And pardon me Sir, if someone suggests that Army Cs of I are impartial, he is shying away from the truth. Sir, you have seen more number of years in the Army. But I too have seen 21 years in the Army and over 34 years in the profession. I have had personal experience to say that Army Courts of Inquiry as also Courts Martial are anything but impartial! They are subjected to command influence and none other than the Apex Court has gone on record to say so in PP Singh Vs UOI, AIR 1983 SC 1413 (I am overseas and do hope I have given correct citation). Who could know it better than you, Sir, that they are subjected to command influence.Moreover, whatever be the situation, no one has the right to deprive a person of life and liberty without the process established by law.If Dar was innocent he ought not to have been captured, tied and paraded, leave alone for five hours, not even for a single minute, whatever be the compulsions or whatever be the situation. How can the life and liberty of some others can be more important than the life and liberty of Dar? (This can only be answered if one puts himself in the shoes of Dar. As the saying goes "only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches").If, on the other hand, he was not innocent he ought to have been arrested and tried as per law. Period,Sir, we are in 21st century and love our liberty more than our life.Be that as it may, the illegality got compounded by the immaturish act of Army Chief when he decorated Gogoi with his Commendation Card. This act of his was adding insult to injury. What message he is trying to give to the people of Kashmir? Will such act of COAS not further alienate the people of Kashmir?Well, having been in profession for more number of years than in the service, I value freedom of speech, right of an individual to life and liberty and impartiality.Sorry Sir, I very respectfully disagree with you for which you would, as my senior, pardon me.With profound regards,MGOn Wed, 14 Jun 2017 at 7:03 PM, harwant singh <gen_harwant@hotmail.com> wrote:My dear MG, how do we know for certain that Dhar was innocent? Also how do we know that he was paraded around across, some say five villages, other put the figure at 20 and you say 25 villages. I learn that he was handed over to the police.
Ofcourse crowd control etc is not the job of the army, but with so much police (state and central ) call is still being made to the army. Further what come out of the Valley requires plenty of SALT for its digestion. I say this with long experience of serving in the Valley.
You might read through my article on the subject. It appeared in The Citizen.
Regards and best wishes. Harwant.
Human Shield
Lt-Gen Harwant Singh ( Retd )
Many a commentator has drawn a parallel of Major Nitin Leetul Gogoi's action of carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep, with torture of Mau Mau terrorists of Nairobi, while some others have equated this action with the massacre at My Lai by U S troops in Vietnam. Even a parallel has been drawn with Jallianwalla Bagh tragedy.
Some others have quoted Vienna Convention on violation of human rights, where using humans as a shield is considered violation of this Convention and a war crime. Then there are the likes of Omar Abdullah, now out of power, who have gone overboard on this action and exaggerated the incident to the extent that the man on the bumper of a jeep was driven through a number of villages. Further, the action violated citizen's fundamental right and was against Constitution's spirit. Does someone who casts stones at security forces not forego, his right to be treated gently. To contend that Farooq Ahmed Dar had cast his vote in the morning, so it did not matter if he turned into a stone pelter in the afternoon, is simply absurd. .
There were a dozen policemen and election staff at the polling both, surrounded as they were by a few hundred strong bloodthirsty mob, when a desperate call was made to the army detachment for rescuing them. The policemen in the polling booth were armed with rifles and they could have shot their way out, killing dozen odd rioters. At another end , this military detachment could have used firearms, killing few and injuring many more and rescued those trapped in the polling booth.
Since the call had been made to Major Gogoi to rescue those trapped in that polling booth, he had two options. One, to use force to kill few and wound many to disperse the crowd and rescue those trapped, or think of some innovative method, whereby casualties could be avoided and yet those hopelessly trapped could be rescued.
Some of us who sit in secure environments, perhaps under air-conditioned comfort, cannot visualize the pressure, stress and the heat generated, when one is face to face with a bloodthirsty mob and called upon to take an instant decision.
Carrying a stone pelter on the bumper of a jeep has been dubbed as human shield, which it is claimed, is a serious violation of human rights and human dignity etc. The fact is that he shielded nothing and no one. That jeep itself and those following it were not shielded and lay open to stone pelters and those with petrol bombs.
What the Geneva Convention refers to is, using prisoners, civilians and women upfront to face enemy fire, while troops move behind the cover of those being placed up front. To compare carrying this stone pelter with human shield as envisaged by many a commentator, is giving free reign to wild imagination. It is the anti-national elements in the Valley who have often put women up front, when facing prospect of action by security forces.
This simple action of carrying a stone pelter in this manner, lowered the tension and became a source of amusement, mirth, laughter, dropping of stones and clapping of hands by the otherwise, murderous mob.
Many in this incident found an opportunity for army bashing. Some others have strongly criticized the army chief for commending the actions of this officer. While others have drawn a parallel with fall of Roman Empire and quote from Russian poet Anna Akhmatova, that only the, 'dead smile.' However in this case the mob, not just smiled but laughed.
What the Indian Army is facing in J and K, more so in the Valley, is the cumulative failure of the Indian state to resolve the issues and poor, indifferent, thoroughly corrupt and inefficient government in the state. To this one can add the nurturing of dishonest and anti-national elements : providing them security and funds by Indian government, besides Pak ISI.
The prevailing conditions in the valley and the onerous tasks of restoring peace, handed down to the army, requires patience, innovation and out of the box solutions, backed by a political will and sagacity. Uncalled for criticism of major Gogoi's action further exacerbate the anti-India bias and feeds the call for, 'Azadi.'
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 7:22 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"The question here is not whether there was any other or better solution. The question is whether it was legal to make an innocent person captive, tie him up with the jeep and parade him around 26 villages for over five hours. (Put this to your own self and answer truthfully if you, your kith and kin or near and dear had been similarly tied and paraded for five hours and the reason given to you was that it was to save the security personnel at the polling booth!)
What was the aim of parading him through 26 villages? Was it to "intimidate" the Kashmiris? If so, was it correct to terrorise your OWN people?
If Dar was a terrorist he should have been arrested and not tied and paraded, as was done by Major Gogoi.
Please remember means are as important as the ends.
If we believe Dar's version that he dared go to the polling booth to cast his vote against the dicta of anti-nationals (he purportedly showed even the indelible ink mark on his finger), then he was definitely made a soft target for those who were instigating and even threatening people not to vote. Thus Dar's life was put to risk.
Basically to handle civil riots is not the job of the Army and Army is not equipped for it. It is the job of the civil police which is equipped with water guns and smoke bombs to disperse the rioting crowd. So, the Army Chief should have the guts to tell his political bosses that it is not Army's job to curb civil riots or disperse mob.
In as far as comparing Major Gogoi with Gen Dyer is concerned, no two situations can be or are identical. In fact Major Gogoi's action was even worse than that of Gen Dyer in as much as wheras Dyer was acting against Indians (other than his OWN British people), Gogoi was acting against the Kashmiris, our OWN people.
What we have heard is only Gogoi's version. The very fact that an Army spokesperson said that Army Chief was Day to day knowing as to what was happening in the Court of Inquiry goes to show that the court of inquiry was not "Independent" and suffered from command influence.
Even if we do grant Major Gogoi the benefit of having acted as "he thought" the situation demanded, to rescue the security staff at the polling booth, once that had been achieved, he should have released Dar. This is without prejudice to my contention that his very act of making Dar a captive was by itself wrong; whatever be the reasons.
BUT CERTAINLY ARMY CHIEF's ACTION OF NOT ONLY APPROVING BUT EVEN REWARDING GOGOI IS VERY WRONG. THIS WOULD SEND SIGNALS TO YOUNG OFFICERS TO DO SOMILAR ACTS IN THE HOPE OF GETTING REWARDED.
I certainly do not approve Gogoi's act and Army Chief's act of rewarding Gogoi.
This incident will go down as a BLACK SPOT in the anals of Indian Army.
MG
On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 at 7:16 PM, m.g.r. rajan <mgr_rajan@hotmail.com> wrote:
In all fairness, one should leave decision making, for the action to be taken, on the war-front, or battle-filed or ground-zero to the man there. He is risking his life and limb following orders. Certainly, our army men are not trained to be sadists, who get pleasure by ill-treating or harrassing naive civilians. Since we may not have an independent, unbiased version of what actually happened that day, give Maj. Gogoi the benefit of doubt for his action. Certainly, his action did not escalate the violence in that area that day nor was the person tied to the jeep hurt. To say that, 'an innocent bystander was tied to a jeep and paraded along' is not correct or ethical in the least.
R. Rajan
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 9:52:53 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] When Army Chief Says He Wishes Kashmiris Were Firing At His MenPost: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"Absolute truth. I entirely agree. Even Gen HS Panag and General Hooda agree with my views. The analogy I gave of the present incident to be similar to the action of Gen Dyer in Jallianwala Bagh is ascribed to by these Generals, both of whom are distinguished Generals.
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 at 2:46 AM, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:
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