Saturday, February 9, 2013

Re: [IAC#RG] Chandra Prakash Trivedi

Dear Sir,
If one feels that cast barrier to be eliminated, in my opinion mention of surname/family name should be eliminated. Some people come forward to sue some body if addressed by their cast/ family name, but same people are at front to mention their surname/ family name if concessions/benefits are offered.
Let there be free supply of books, admission in colleges etc for all financially poor people and should not be cast based.
If Govt. wants to remove cast barrier, why in every requirement of individual details there are columns for cast/subcast etc which differentiate individual on cast basis.
Let the Govt. eliminate mention of cast, creed in every format need to be filled by applicant.

Pramod Raghunath
--- On Sat, 9/2/13, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

From: tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Chandra Prakash Trivedi
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Cc: "afridiamjad@hotmail.com" <afridiamjad@hotmail.com>, atcptrivedi@gmail.com
Date: Saturday, 9 February, 2013, 8:26 PM

Dear Mr Amjad Afridi,
Greetings.
DrCPTrivedi has accurately found the remedy for the malady. If,Hinduism is a way of life as oft repeated,and other faiths ,including worship of nature and its elements are also a way of life in their own right, there I feel lies the cause for discord. As a member of The Armed Forces(Corps of Engineers of IA) ,I have been singularly lucky to have the faith of my troops , Marathas/Sikhs/Moslems ie; Hindu/Sikh/Islam.
We had ardent  Christians amongst us officers ,of whom  most followed the MMG ie; Mandir/Masjid/Gurudwara happily and others discreetly showed reservation towards Sikhism and Islam. Probably because there was a sub conscious clash  of accepting Ek Onkar or Allah. 
I as a Hindu somehow never felt uncomfortable either in a Mosque or Gurudwara,probably because ,Hindus have several Gods and Two more  had no impact on psyche. Here a mention be made that The Communists  being Atheists  and so have no use for 'Faith' in religious sense ,follow 'Religiously' their brand of ' Ideology'.
 So much for way of life and religiosity and we see the Owaissis and Togadias  labouring  to raise the temperatures before elections by castigating each others 'Faiths'. 
Aam Aadmi's 'Collective Psyche'   and 'Mob Mentality' ,in my opinion is quite feeble ,may be because of being an aggregate of several individual psyches and hence naturally tends to be at the lowest  ' Calibre' .Such a mentality gets swayed giving room for 'Divide and Rule'.
That's where an honest 'State'  ought to come in and rein in the rabble rousers by refrigerating them somehow.
As aptly  indicated by you & Dr Trvedi, poverty has no caste and creed as is the affluency .
But the affected poor are preoccupied  with earning their  'Rozi Roti' and it is the Politicos who want 'Religion'. Hunger knows no religion.

One solution is to do away with all reservations and support to be extended uniformly for  all to be educated ,empowered to compete, regulate merit based higher education for research and pedagogy and ensure every body has a right to lively hood.  If one is not inclined to studies in early phase let him be empowered with suitable vocational trg. & the vocational trg should have scope for the late bloomers to evolve by doing away with the age related stipulations.Let the stratification of people occur purely on individual merit ,field of trg and physical ability. (We have a ready model in Armed Forces). Then a meritorious person firstly impacts his family, then his community, then his society and so The Nation.

Regards & Best Wishes
LtCol  retd TTKishore,Engineers.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013, Chandra Prakash Trivedi wrote:
Dear Amjadji,

Thanks and feel honor, the politics of divide and rule borrowed from the British Lord has ruined the country. The roots of corruption are in our constitution, and the people are innocent, as a citizen of democratic India, we are responsible for it. We have chosen the corrupt out of only sentiments without logic.

With regards

Dr.C.P.Trivedi

On 9 February 2013 01:31, Amjad Afridi <afridiamjad@hotmail.com> wrote:
C. P. Trivedi seems to have educated himself by reading the right kind of History and has a very evolved mind with Nationalist thoughts.

Instead of using jingoism and cliches, Trivedi kind of positive thoughts contribute to Nation Building.

While Politics is essential in the life of any nation, the aim of joining Politics and Public Life should not merely be 'greatest good of the greatest number....but the greatest good of all.'  

Why should any of us be left behind ?
Why should any of us be deprived of benefits we deserve by virtue of being Citizens of this Nation ?

The divisive politics of Mandal and Kamandal has already ruined the country.

A Chor Politician is the National Enemy No. 1....whether it is A. R. Antulay, Mayawati,Chautala, Coffin Chor Fernandes, Sharad Pawar, Suresh Kalmadi, Daku ka Sardar A. Raja or Choron ki Amma Jayalalitha.

I want to record my appreciation for Trivedi Ji's mail which is full of history and wisdom.
  



Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:45:43 +0530
From: atcptrivedi@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
CC: vaghelabd@yahoo.com; trident142@yahoo.co.in; priyadarshi101@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

Are you serious, and sure about Hindustan as name of India, prior to invaders attack on India. The people around the Sindhu have been named as Hindu by the invaders with their Farsi language S as H, the invaders have called it as Hindustan, and to differentiate between the Indians, they have non converted Indian as Hindu Kafir, no body was having dare to oppose rulers or suggest any thing, it became the custom to differentiate between Muslim and non Muslim of India as Hindu.

The British rulers have imposed Christianity over India, they have divided Indians on the basis of religion as Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Parsi, they were successful to rule over India with divide and rule policy. |India's spiritual freedom is unique, and above superstitious faith in one God, hence British conspiracy to divide Indians and India fully successful, After independence political parties have adopted the same as Vote bank policy to divide and rule, where Hindu or Muslim is name of Vote bank to rule over India.The unawareness, and ignorance is the cause of all round corruption for vote bank. The innocent public is calm and quiet as it is, as before the independence.

The name of Dharma or religion is for peace, our Dharma is of cooperative coexistence and peace, which has no name with spiritual freedom.
It is all due to the so called religious bifurcation of India and Indians that we are suffering from religious conversion, fear without national pride and integrity. The vote bank policy give it fuel.

The reality is that Hindu is not a religion and Quran do not support different state for converted, but the shrewd politics of British rulers, and political leader's lust to rule over India and Pakistan has divided the Man and Man.

With regards think for India with pride and honor for India, India has spiritual freedom from time immemorial, to act with ethics in life, and sacrifice for mother land is identity of Indian, India was divided in to small states and kings were not united, hence invaders have got the opportunity to rule over India, now public is ruler in democracy, only public awareness and national pride can save India.

With regards think for India


On 7 February 2013 10:26, Babubhai Vaghela <vaghelabd@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear All, At times I wonder as to why Hindus not create and setup
altogather a new Nation called HINDUSTAN somewhere in this vast planet
Earth? With warm regards,

--
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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Victimization of an IIT Teacher for reforming IIT JEE : Misuse of Power & Authority

Dear Mr Apte,
Have you read "The History of the Peoples of the US" by Howard Sinn. Worth its while.
 Take your mind back to what Leonard Brezenev once remarked. The President of US has more powers than I. I have to convince a minimum of 13 members of the Supreme Soviet while he has to only four. 
George W Bush ensured that the most supreme authority to run riot is the "Homeland Security". Americans are getting suffocated and I feel in years to come there will be a backlash.
Ours is a feudalistic democracy far from the ideal. It will continue to be so for the next four to five decades. Corruption in politics is all encompassing in all democracies including the Scandinavian countries.
 What stands these democracies apart is  for each" Kroner" they take in tax  they share at least 15% in terms of convenience and Govt service. I do not get even 2 paisa worth. 
How many of us are selfless? Would it not be asking for the moon to have selfless people steering the country? We at this stage should feel very happy even if manage to lodge 20% selfless people in politics. It will be a good beginning. The onus is on us "the voter".
On every fourth Saturday my college classmates get together for a "cuppa". Educated higher middle class who at the drop of the hat mention Singapore, Dubai, NY etc many are still giving excuses there is no worthwhile candidate to vote for. My riposte is why not the best out of the worst. So far our sub group has managed to convert six to think positively.
Best Wishes



On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com> wrote:

      Dear Sir,
      You are rightly saying that in Democracy the whistle blowers must be protected. Under any system of State administration the whistle blowers will always be targeted. Only if the rulers are selfless (or developed individuals as I call them) the whistle blowers are likely to be protected. The Democracy, even so called mature one as in USA, can never protect them.Can we understand what is Democracy at all?
      Democracy is that system which essentially needs creating and maintaining vote banks in every constituency. Unless it is done no Democracy can even come into operation. The candidates will get elected only when they get some votes from other (than their vote banks) voters also. And that is why they have keep these people in humour ALWAYS. Now when they are busy in this play where will there be any time for them to look after the welfare of the Nation? They have also to earn money for spending in next election time.So wherever Democracy operates, this game will continue. Please study any country claiming to be Democratic, you will hardly find any difference.
      As we are feeling that USA is the Best Democracy, kindly read the article "It has Happened Here" by Paul Craig Roberts published in OpEd News of 7 February 2013. According to him USA has been converted into a police State where the President's authority runs supreme . He can arrest and put in jail any person (even without charging etc) or even kill him. Please read the article attached.In Bhaarat, executive Power rests with the Prime Minister. In short appointment is different. No other change you can hope for, isn't it? I am attaching the article for your reference. Now you can call a State Democracy if the people within can call names to the Rulers and Rulers do tolerate it, that is all.
      So please remember unless the Rulers are a group of Selfless people the citizens can never be happy and contented in a State. You may even call this administration, a benevolent Dictatorship as well. It does not make any difference to the State.
      With regards,
      -----Mukund Apte

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Babubhai Vaghela <vaghelabd@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear All,

Victimisation of Whistle Blowers, unjustified / unwarranted / avoidable, is not something new.

While the Media highlight few cases, majority go unpublished.

Few cases that I know -

(1) Mr Rajeev Kumar from IIT - https://t.co/9zXAmVyy -

(2) Mr Abhijit Ghosh, who retired as the General Manager of Central Bank of India - https://t.co/mgBz67yT

(3) Mr Mahendra Gaur  - Ex Indian Oil - Now Advocate at Jaipur -

(4) Mr Mahendra Tyagi - Ex Indian Oil - Fighting Legal Battles.
See him in Youtube Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rztr7uMDaFs

(5) & (6) Mr Ashok Singh & Mr Ravi Srivastava - Ex HPCL - Services Terminated - https://t.co/Nl20zd9a

(7) Dr Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister - Tale of 2 Persons who were detained overnight by Police during your visit to IIM Ahmedabad on 26th March 2011 - Babubhai Vaghela & Hitesh Chauhan.


Regards,

-- 
(Babubhai Vaghela)
C 202, Shrinandnagar V, Makarba Road Vejalpur, 
(Administrator - Google Group - Right to Information Act 2005)

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Rajeev Kumar <rajeevkumar.cse@gmail.com> wrote:

Victimization of an IIT Teacher for reforming IIT JEE

IIT teacher Rajeev Kumar, (www.rajeev.cu.cc/), a computer science professor at IIT Kharagpur, is continued to be on suspension in defiance of laws of the land. A teacher is made academically dysfunctional for blowing the whistle against IIT's top administrators (then Director, Deans etc.), who are indicted by CBI in academic/financial irregularities.

He discovered inaccuracies in the merit lists of Joint Entrance Examination (JEE) for admissions in IITs by research & analysis of the information obtained under RTI Act. For example, a student with 279 marks was not qualified while students with 154 were:--

Sl. No.

Year

Maths.

Physics

Chemistry

Aggregate

Result

1.

2006

36

116

127

279

Not Qualified

2.

2006

101

  96

  54

  251

Not Qualified

3.

2006

45

56

55

156

Qualified

4.

2006

 37

48

69

154

Qualified

Many other irregularities, namely, cutoff discrepancies, unattended question paper errors, hundreds of seats lying vacant, filling vacant seats through back-doors, administrators wards' routine admissions, etc., were surfaced.

His Public Services:---

1.      His 6-year long crusade, as a single-person-army, led to many reforms, first time in 6-decade old IITs. Today's IIT-JEE  is much reformed due to transparency and well defined processes,

§   selection criteria, e.g., cutoffs procedure and marks are pre-fixed and known a priori,

§   carbon copy of the Optical Response Sheet (ORS) is provided to prevent tampering,

§   answer keys are announced for assessing their correctness before the result,

§   scored marks and evaluated scanned scripts are made available online before the result, 

§   multiple rounds of admissions are done with exit policy to re-allocate surrendered seats for avoiding wastage of vacant seats.

Since IIT-JEE is treated as the role model, many other such examinations in the country conducted by UGC, CBSE, almost all State Boards, have been unveiling the secrecy.

2.      He pioneered the Single Engineering Entrance Examination, with transparency in Jan. 10 for fairness, uniformity and de-stressing the aspirants. He challenged MHRD's proposal of using 12th standard marks, in his PIL filed in Apr 10. His was the 'lone' dissent against Achraya Comm. proposal in IIT Kgp Senate, on 02/07/10, which later spread all over. The single examination scheme, which has inherent flaws of increased arbitrariness, manipulation, stress, and coaching, due to -- (i) use of 12th stnd. percentile Board score which vary widely, and (ii) weighted mix of non-uniform/non-standardized components for admissions in NITs, is under challenge in his PIL.

3.      He is the sole author of undergraduate engineering accreditation guidelines (May 2011 Edn.), by which India is heading to acquire full signatory status in Washington Accord. The guidelines are in public use by National Board of Accreditation (NBA), an autonomous body of MHRD.

His crusade is for GenNext to truly realize them fruits of transparent and well defined processes with built-in checks-n-balances during their study. This will work as a catalyst for moral uplift-ment and motivate GenNext to work with transparency.  Details on:  eklavyajee06.blogspot.in/    □

A few Excerpts from Supreme / High Court's Order / Judgment:--

4.      Supreme Court Judgment, dated 11/10/11 [(2012) 1 SCC 157] "... the action taken by the appellants in challenging the procedure for JEE 2006, their attempts to bring in transparency in the procedure by various RTI applications, and the debate generated by the several views of experts during the course of the writ proceedings, have helped in making the merit ranking process more transparent and accurate... IITs and the candidates who now participate in the examinations must, to a certain extent, thank appellants for their effort in bringing such transparency and accuracy in the ranking procedure. ... have to be satisfied in being one of the many unsung heroes who helped in improving the system."

5.      Supreme Court Order, dated 16/08/11 [C.A. 7100/2011] "he was interested in ensuring JEE is conducted in a transparent and fair manner so that meritorious students may not suffer."

6.      Calcutta High Court Judgment, dated 18/07/12 [WP 3582/2011] "… In order to unearth the truth and also to ensure transparency in the matter of assessment of the relative merits of the aspirants for admission in the institute ... the institute to give inspection of the relevant file(s) containing all documents, records, correspondence, communication etc. related to JEE 2006."

His Victimization for undertaking Reforms:--

7.      Kumar is made academically dysfunctional. Kumar is debarred from (i) teaching and research work, and (ii) entering his departmental office complex and laboratories. The indefinite suspension is doing irreparable losses and ruining his professional career. Recently, Delhi High Court penalized IIT Kharagpur for delaying the matter.

8.      The void ab initio suspension order, dated 13/05/11, is continuing in 21st month. Suspension order, which was not reviewed for extension within 90-days, is not valid. As a perjury, IIT Board ordered "... his joining back is likely to adversely affect the academic atmosphere of the Institute." IIT defied CVC/MHRD directive for suspesnion review as per CCS (CCA) Rules.

9.      IIT set up a Kangaroo Court for the inquiry which could not yet provide him even the relevant documents and witnesses' statements. No established due-process is followed. The Inquiry Officer is working closely, for gains, with IIT admin., who were exposed in irregularties. IIT defied CVC/MHRD directive for placing allegation of bias before the Visitor as per rules.

10.  Charges against Kumar are those on which he blew the whistle, viz., silent copying in IIT examinations and scam related to purchase of laptops. He has been charged of threatening an IIT Dean who submitted a false affidavit that M.Tech. admissions are not based on GATE performance. Kumar is charged for maligning the institution though IIT is maligned due to IIT administrators turning a Nelson Eye to all irregularities including their indictment by CBI.

11.  Not a single out of 30 RTI applications received complete info within 30 days. Not a single, out of a hundred of his RTI applications/appeals/complaints in the last 6 years, was dealt as per the RTI Act. Recently, Calcutta High Court directed IIT for inspection of the JEE 2006 files.

12.  Call details of his personal cell phone are-being acquired/shared by IIT's top administrators to have complete e-surveillance of his activities; this is reminiscing of the Watergate Scandal.

13.  His Intellectual Property Rights (IPRs) are being destroyed / grabbed.

14.  IIT launched a smear campaign against him on the charges on which Kumar blew the whistle. IIT Board adopted the policy of shoot the messenger and protect the corrupt. Kumar's conflicts of interest with the IIT Board & HCL Chairman, Mr. Shiv Nadar, are on records.                 

* * *


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--
      With regards to all,
      ------Mukund Apte

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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Smt Pratibha Patil saved Corrupt HC Judge Soumitra Sen.

Moderators' reckless selectivity in clearing the posted messages is
dangerous as it amounts to encroaching freedom of expression on social
media.
Regards,
--
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C 202, Shrinandnagar V, Makarba Road Vejalpur, Ahmedabad - 380051
M - 94276 08632
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About me at - http://bit.ly/9xsHFj
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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

Dear Sri Chauhan 

( or is it just Chauhan in Sainik Sangh style of address )
Kindly note that your rather unique views of history is not shared by other learned authors of armed forces .
Air Marshl Nehra in his book ' Miltary Ethos of Hinduism' , had opined that abnormal pacifism is not a Hindu concept . It was probably imported from Jain or more likely Buddhism .
In fact Ashok emerges as villian in this analysis as he destroyed Mairayan empire by his renunciation and pacifism .
He goes on to add that Hindus were not cowards . They repeatedly fought to death but lost due to inferior war technology / Strategy . While Islam totally destroyed Egypt and Persian culture . It was Hindu cultural and Military resistance that saved our culture .
But by the way we never succeeded in defeating even Pakistan a much smaller country but for assymetric war of 1971.
Bravery ceased to be a passport to prosperity as hunting men settled in agriculture .
The evolution of agrigarian society recognized the limited but very vital need of bravery and thus the VIP treatment to armed forces .

But it is not that armed forces are custodian of human knowledge . 

Sent from my iPhone

On 09-Feb-2013, at 9:46 PM, "Sainik Sangh" <gs@sainiksangh.org> wrote:

Manmohan

These are good thoughts for introspection but Manmohan overly charged with emotions rightly too . I am sure many in this majority Hindu landmass must have pondered similarly  since Delhi was sacked in 1192 and failed to reverse the course; instead got deeper into subservience to any odd and sundry too  . In fact the Hindu identity is identified with submission and opportunism not only by reputation but  testimony ! To any social scientist the weakness of it is endemic in its centrality of the individual !It is an escapist and evasive way of life .Hindu would want someone else to do his job for him!  Study how this affliction was rectified by Ashok IN WHOM WE HAVE THE ANSWER . But  we drop him by the way side in our daily chores ! or take the Gita  it has the answers but we reject these unable to qualify . Just take the relevant tenets of Gita and make out a chart to test how many if not all are violated  by Hindus  We cannot become a State or a modern nation  by espousing a wish list based on an indefinable   and failed identity !All this talk of Vedas is sheer diversion with an ulterior aim. You have read history  we were never A Hindu nation! The word Hindu never existed prior to 7th Century innovated by Arabs and taken over by Greeks ! It's of Christian usage  Chandrgupta was not a Hindu. We have thousands of manuscripts and none speaks  of Hindu ! HISTORICALLY our problems are  a creation of the priestly class  ! It is the temple versus the State conflict that disarmed the people . No fault of the invaders ! Tell me one instance in human history where a weak could weld a nation and did not attract a stronger adversary to aggression! It is simply a battle of readiness ! No Gods specially speechless ones as ours who can be manipulated by wealth !The life to our deities which the priest was  assigned  to tend and enliven as it were with mystical powers came from monarchs ! Just like it did in Greek and Roman polytheism . Our  last example was the monarchy of Nepal . Perhaps a better example is the monarchy of THAILAND  where much  of what was essence of our polytheism is still retained with good and for good !The King is the Commander in Chief and not a silly politician planted through devious  manipulations !Now you cannot cite   one example in modern history where religion was the basis of making a  nation least a weak and porous one without codes ! We have to look to a different answer to achieve  your dream not by reinforcing failures ! Let's not bluff and deceive ourselves with myopic vision .Who are we accusing of failures  and collapse of virtues if not one camp which carries the placard Hindu blaming the other carrying the placard of Secularism but still Hindu  !The Hindu has innumerous faces !  Hinduism  is defunct because it does not have an inbuilt military component as Islam has ! IN OUR POLYTHEIRSM TOO THIS WAS PROVIDED BY MONARCHS .  Islam  was overrun by the mullah and the faith became notoriously anarchist an antipathy to welding a modern state . But where Islam was freed  of the mullah the best example Turkey it led to welding a nation. Mullah, pandit , padre granthi etc  are the bane of human society . So where is the answer? In a  socio economic formula NOT Hinduatva ! We don't want to be ruled by money in garb of fraudulent  Gods ! How can a progressive person even think of yogic teachers, sooth Sayers   and tooth paste  manufactures giving Stately  light of governance ! Only stupid flock to these imposters  Read how GERMANY BECAME A POWER –SCIENCE TECHNOLOGY –LEARNING –PHYSICAL  FITNESS CLEANLINESS –PRECISION IN DOING THINGS NOT SELF GRATIFICATION,  LOVE FOR TRUTH  VIBRANT YOUTH ORDER AND DISCIPLINE  GERMAN  NOT CHRISTIAN PRIDE !

HOW ASHOK BECAME THE WORLDS BEST EMPEROR WITH A MIGHTY EMPIRE WHERE 6 ENGLANDS COULD BE FIT   EXACTLY THE SAME WAY ! AND BY SHOWING THE BRAHMIN WHERE HIS WRIT MUST STOP – DHARMA –EXACTLY WHAT HE APELT  CODES FOR  CITIZENS  AS IN GITA –DUTY TRUTH AND LOYALTY – NOT SELF ! If we were to judge Gen VK Singh on tenets of Gita he would SALL BY THE WAY SIDE AS HE HAS ! If he set out to mend the health of his institution ( which threw him up) that was a pledge he cannot turn round and take to improving his own health  a volte face ! This is taking advantage of the moment with an eye of profits- a Hindu PRACTICE  to my mind  proscribed in the Gita  and by Ashok's  tenets

Lets come down against any movement that spells  subterfuge in pursuit of brazen power through rabble from streets fed on fuel of ignorance and lies – and doles worst bringing RAM too onto the street and then abandoning him! . Look for a  nationalist route !  If you have nationalism Mr Modi and his mascot  Dr Tagodia  WOULD HAVE TO SERVE  A YEAR ATLEAST IN LINE WITH MEN TO QUALIFY FOR A SEAT IN THE LOK SABHA . Up to you to think of other designs of national service and relax the criteria  . Profiteering by big business and privatization of democracy would have to cease . Loot by religious dens and self styled GODS would have to cease . There would be no need for seeking peace through their advise as society would then be peaceful!  Prosperity would have to be distributed according to value of work No wealth by merely amassing by manipulations on cell phones ! No pawning of sovereignty  to keep others happy  ! And so on Then Jeltly cannot make money fighting law suits on behalf of tobacco companies  in court for giving cancer to the poor! Poor Jetly! And so with Mulayam Singh too and all the Congress mascots ! DIGVIJAYA SINGH WOULD HAVE TO BE SENT TO A REFORMATORY TO LEARTN WHAT IS PRIDE !

Sorry I am in  a hurry . Mull over it . Just returned from our GC meeting . Am going to Mumbai for 10 days but will be on net !

THOUGHTS

MANMOHAN 13 feb is the world radio day ! A day of science Pity we have no event for this even PAK HAS ! We are busy otherwise any way!

Best 73s

 

From: manmohan kumar [mailto:mohan26@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:48 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; kptuli@yahoo.com; rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com; Sainik sangh
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

Dear Gen Chauhan,

Came across this by Preeti Nair which is quite an eyeopener for me;
Have we ever thought why are we Indians the most accommodating, least aggressive & perhaps the most defensive lot ?? Umpteen times we've been attacked, invaded & conquered, be it at the hands of Mughals, the Portuguese, the British or the likes of the Ghaznis. Everyone has annihilated our nation mercilessly, looted us of all or wealth & have ruled over us bringing our nation down on its knees from once being the most flourishing country, the so called "Golden Bird"of ancient times. Why have we succumbed to these invasions most of the times, not retaliating the way we should have done! Except for a few warriors like Prithviraj Chouhan, Shivaji, Porus or Tipu Sultan, who fought bravely, we have mostly succumbed to the invaders, when we had the power to be a Prithvi, Shivaji or a Tipu, individually or collectively. Even now, with neighboring countries attacking us in different ways & spreading their vicious tentacles, always ready to grab us in their jaws, we overlook it & going a step further, we extend an olive leaf to them, very well knowing that they will be back-biting us one day or the other....
Are we a nation of cowards ?? No.....not at all. But then where has all the valor gone from us? In our mind somewhere, deep down, there is an unknown fear.... which is genetic within us, an in-born anxiety....But why, what could be the reason behind this??.....While reading Mahabharata sometime ago, this thought suddenly struck my mind....was it the battle of Mahabharata that wiped out all the warriors & their families completely from this land of warriors?? Is it the fear of another such blood-shed that makes us defensive rather than fighting back ? Yes, I think, perhaps... that could be the reason. The gruesome battle of Mahabharata has left an indelible mark on the psyche of the Indians - born & even unborn, for many more thousand years or maybe forever....The warriors have all been decimated from this land & what is left behind is the fear which is entwined within all of us unknowingly ; which has with time, become an inseparable & distinct trait of ours. And we have to live with this inborn trait whether we like it or not because that is what makes the Indians of the post Mahabharata age !! The violent streaks that we are witnessing in today's India may also be perhaps an out-pour of that suppressed fear buried with us by birth. The reason behind is that, its always the weak who display such a behavior. Most often it is the physically weak who gets targeted and attacked by a mentally weak oppressor. The oppressor does so to prove his "strength" and more than proving a point to others, it's a point that they want to drive home within, to satisfy their own hollow & spineless selves !! So although Lord Krishna played a key role in the onset of battle of Mahabharata to administer justice for the Pancha- Pandavas, but that destruction resulted in the uprooting of valour & positive aggression from an entire Indian race ; & in turn sowed the seed of eternal fear, timidity & defensive Indians for generations to come.......

With Warm Wishes,

 

Manmohan Kumar

 

From: gs@sainiksangh.org
To: kptuli@yahoo.com; rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 18:49:51 +0530
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

WHAT PIPE DREAMING BY EITHER PAID AGENTS OUT FOR MISCHIEF OR SIMPLY  DUMB INTELLECTUALS  OR  UNOCCUPIED KEYBOARD LOVERS AND  HAVE  NO CONSTRUCTIVE MIND OR JUST DAY DREAMERS

FIRST WHEN WAS THERE EVER A 'HINDU '  NATION IN HUMAN HISTORY? THERE WAS A MAURYAN EMPIRE , MARATHA NATION , RAJPUT  KINGDOMS BUT YET NO NATION, THE MOGHUL EMPIRE  AND NO MORE  OF COURSE THE CHRISTIAN BRITISH EMPIRE . THE BULK OF WHAT ARE CALLED HINDUS WERE JUST  MENIAL SERVANTS , UNTOUCHABLES , PETTY TRADERS , WORKERS, FARMERS  , BOOK KEEPERS , JEWELERS , REST LOOTERS MARAUDERS ETC  AND TEMPLE PRIESTS . NOW HAVING BEEN CHRISTENED INTO WESTERN STYLE DEMOCRACY WHAT GREAT ENGINE OF POWER AND WISDOM  HAVE HINDUS BECOME? WHEN TWO HINDUS  ARE NOT SIMILAR  , NOR LOOK ALIKE , NOR SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE  NOR TRUST EACH OTHER, NOR  HAVE ANY STAMP OF THEIR OWN- HAVE NO LANGUAGE THE MAIN DISTINCTION OF A NATION –NO LEADER ( DON'T SAY THAT TILAKDHARI MODI OR TAGODIA ARE LEADERS) NO FLAG ! SO I DO NOT KNOW TO WHAT SPECIS OF HUMANS  YOU ARE REFERING TO? THE ONLY THOUGHT ONE COULD HAVE OF THIS NATURE WAS IN THE MONARCHY OF NEPAL THAT WAS A HINDU NATION THE LAST ONE .

NEXT YOU CANNOT RUN THIS NATION WHICH IS 80% HINDUS HOW CAN YLOU RUN A 100% ONE?

ANDS WHO MADE ALL THE MESS YOU ARE SO FED UP WITH IF NOGT ONLY HINDUS ?   WASN'T GANDHI A HINDU, NEHRU TOO, SHASHTRI TOO, ATAL BIHARI TOO ETC ETC .

WHY DO YOU KEEP BLAMING NEHRU HE IS DEAD WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER HIM?

AND WHAT IS THIS GIMMICK INDIA RESISTS RESISTS WHAT   ?

 A  PEOPLE USED TO BEING SLAVES WILL REMAIN SO HOWEVER  COSMETIC CHANGES THEY MAY ACQUIRE UNLESS THEY OVERTHROW THEIR MASTER . THE TRUTH IS IF THE MASTER HANDS OVER THE KEYS OF HIS ESTATE FOR SAFE KEEPING AND HE MAKES A RETREAT THAT DLOESNT CHANGE THE SLAVE ! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SUFFERING FROM WHICH MAKES   HINDUS A SUBMISSIVE AND EVASSIVE CONGREGATION WITH LITTLE  MAKINGS OF A NATION!

A  NATIONALIST            

 

From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net [mailto:indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of krishan tuli
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:59 AM
To: rajiv upadhyay; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

BECAUSE OF LACK OF VISION ON PART OF NEHRU WE ARE STUCH WITH LIFE-LONG NATIONAL PROBLEMS  LIKE PARTITION OF COUNTRY,  LIFE-LONG KASHMIR ISSUE, LIFE-LONG CHINA ENMITY,  LACK OF NATIONAL LANGUAGE,  PERMANENT ESTABLSHED OCCUPATION OF GOVT CONTROL BY NEHRU FAMILY  ETC ETC  ETC

 

From: rajiv upadhyay <rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

Sir ,

Why not actively and democratically seek an amendment in constitution . It may materialise slowly but certainly. 

 

From: Babubhai Vaghela <vaghelabd@yahoo.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:26 AM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?


Dear All, At times I wonder as to why Hindus not create and setup
altogather a new Nation called HINDUSTAN somewhere in this vast planet
Earth? With warm regards,

--
(Babubhai Vaghela)
C 202, Shrinandnagar V, Makarba Road Vejalpur, Ahmedabad - 380051
M -  94276 08632
http://twitter.com/BabubhaiVaghela
About me at - http://bit.ly/9xsHFj
http://www.youtube.com/user/vaghelabd
(Administrator - Google Group - Right to Information Act 2005)
http://groups.google.com/group/Right-to-Information-Act-2005/about?hl=en

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Posted by at No comments:

[IAC#RG] लोकतंत्र के लिए एक मुकम्मल दिन: अरुंधति राय

लेकिन अब इस बात से कि अफजल गुरु को फांसी दी जा चुकी है, मैं उम्मीद करती हूं कि हमारी सामूहिक चेतना संतुष्ट हो गई होगी. या हमारा खून का कटोरा अभी आधा ही भरा है?

लोकतंत्र के लिए एक मुकम्मल दिन: अरुंधति राय

Posted by at No comments:

Re: [HumJanenge] DTC forces RTI applicants to collect information personally.

Sir,

This is done because the RTI Act has not specified the mode of supply of information. Nevertheless, an applicant need not visit the office of the PIO /CPIO to collect the information.
If the latter fails to supply information the applicant has the right to file the first appeal.
RIM
Chennai

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to HumJanenge+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Posted by at No comments:

RE: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

Manmohan

These are good thoughts for introspection but Manmohan overly charged with emotions rightly too . I am sure many in this majority Hindu landmass must have pondered similarly  since Delhi was sacked in 1192 and failed to reverse the course; instead got deeper into subservience to any odd and sundry too  . In fact the Hindu identity is identified with submission and opportunism not only by reputation but  testimony ! To any social scientist the weakness of it is endemic in its centrality of the individual !It is an escapist and evasive way of life .Hindu would want someone else to do his job for him!  Study how this affliction was rectified by Ashok IN WHOM WE HAVE THE ANSWER . But  we drop him by the way side in our daily chores ! or take the Gita  it has the answers but we reject these unable to qualify . Just take the relevant tenets of Gita and make out a chart to test how many if not all are violated  by Hindus  We cannot become a State or a modern nation  by espousing a wish list based on an indefinable   and failed identity !All this talk of Vedas is sheer diversion with an ulterior aim. You have read history  we were never A Hindu nation! The word Hindu never existed prior to 7th Century innovated by Arabs and taken over by Greeks ! It’s of Christian usage  Chandrgupta was not a Hindu. We have thousands of manuscripts and none speaks  of Hindu ! HISTORICALLY our problems are  a creation of the priestly class  ! It is the temple versus the State conflict that disarmed the people . No fault of the invaders ! Tell me one instance in human history where a weak could weld a nation and did not attract a stronger adversary to aggression! It is simply a battle of readiness ! No Gods specially speechless ones as ours who can be manipulated by wealth !The life to our deities which the priest was  assigned  to tend and enliven as it were with mystical powers came from monarchs ! Just like it did in Greek and Roman polytheism . Our  last example was the monarchy of Nepal . Perhaps a better example is the monarchy of THAILAND  where much  of what was essence of our polytheism is still retained with good and for good !The King is the Commander in Chief and not a silly politician planted through devious  manipulations !Now you cannot cite   one example in modern history where religion was the basis of making a  nation least a weak and porous one without codes ! We have to look to a different answer to achieve  your dream not by reinforcing failures ! Let’s not bluff and deceive ourselves with myopic vision .Who are we accusing of failures  and collapse of virtues if not one camp which carries the placard Hindu blaming the other carrying the placard of Secularism but still Hindu  !The Hindu has innumerous faces !  Hinduism  is defunct because it does not have an inbuilt military component as Islam has ! IN OUR POLYTHEIRSM TOO THIS WAS PROVIDED BY MONARCHS .  Islam  was overrun by the mullah and the faith became notoriously anarchist an antipathy to welding a modern state . But where Islam was freed  of the mullah the best example Turkey it led to welding a nation. Mullah, pandit , padre granthi etc  are the bane of human society . So where is the answer? In a  socio economic formula NOT Hinduatva ! We don’t want to be ruled by money in garb of fraudulent  Gods ! How can a progressive person even think of yogic teachers, sooth Sayers   and tooth paste  manufactures giving Stately  light of governance ! Only stupid flock to these imposters  Read how GERMANY BECAME A POWER –SCIENCE TECHNOLOGY –LEARNING –PHYSICAL  FITNESS CLEANLINESS –PRECISION IN DOING THINGS NOT SELF GRATIFICATION,  LOVE FOR TRUTH  VIBRANT YOUTH ORDER AND DISCIPLINE  GERMAN  NOT CHRISTIAN PRIDE !

HOW ASHOK BECAME THE WORLDS BEST EMPEROR WITH A MIGHTY EMPIRE WHERE 6 ENGLANDS COULD BE FIT   EXACTLY THE SAME WAY ! AND BY SHOWING THE BRAHMIN WHERE HIS WRIT MUST STOP – DHARMA –EXACTLY WHAT HE APELT  CODES FOR  CITIZENS  AS IN GITA –DUTY TRUTH AND LOYALTY – NOT SELF ! If we were to judge Gen VK Singh on tenets of Gita he would SALL BY THE WAY SIDE AS HE HAS ! If he set out to mend the health of his institution ( which threw him up) that was a pledge he cannot turn round and take to improving his own health  a volte face ! This is taking advantage of the moment with an eye of profits- a Hindu PRACTICE  to my mind  proscribed in the Gita  and by Ashok’s  tenets

Lets come down against any movement that spells  subterfuge in pursuit of brazen power through rabble from streets fed on fuel of ignorance and lies – and doles worst bringing RAM too onto the street and then abandoning him! . Look for a  nationalist route !  If you have nationalism Mr Modi and his mascot  Dr Tagodia  WOULD HAVE TO SERVE  A YEAR ATLEAST IN LINE WITH MEN TO QUALIFY FOR A SEAT IN THE LOK SABHA . Up to you to think of other designs of national service and relax the criteria  . Profiteering by big business and privatization of democracy would have to cease . Loot by religious dens and self styled GODS would have to cease . There would be no need for seeking peace through their advise as society would then be peaceful!  Prosperity would have to be distributed according to value of work No wealth by merely amassing by manipulations on cell phones ! No pawning of sovereignty  to keep others happy  ! And so on Then Jeltly cannot make money fighting law suits on behalf of tobacco companies  in court for giving cancer to the poor! Poor Jetly! And so with Mulayam Singh too and all the Congress mascots ! DIGVIJAYA SINGH WOULD HAVE TO BE SENT TO A REFORMATORY TO LEARTN WHAT IS PRIDE !

Sorry I am in  a hurry . Mull over it . Just returned from our GC meeting . Am going to Mumbai for 10 days but will be on net !

THOUGHTS

MANMOHAN 13 feb is the world radio day ! A day of science Pity we have no event for this even PAK HAS ! We are busy otherwise any way!

Best 73s

 

From: manmohan kumar [mailto:mohan26@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:48 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; kptuli@yahoo.com; rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com; Sainik sangh
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

Dear Gen Chauhan,

Came across this by Preeti Nair which is quite an eyeopener for me;
Have we ever thought why are we Indians the most accommodating, least aggressive & perhaps the most defensive lot ?? Umpteen times we've been attacked, invaded & conquered, be it at the hands of Mughals, the Portuguese, the British or the likes of the Ghaznis. Everyone has annihilated our nation mercilessly, looted us of all or wealth & have ruled over us bringing our nation down on its knees from once being the most flourishing country, the so called "Golden Bird"of ancient times. Why have we succumbed to these invasions most of the times, not retaliating the way we should have done! Except for a few warriors like Prithviraj Chouhan, Shivaji, Porus or Tipu Sultan, who fought bravely, we have mostly succumbed to the invaders, when we had the power to be a Prithvi, Shivaji or a Tipu, individually or collectively. Even now, with neighboring countries attacking us in different ways & spreading their vicious tentacles, always ready to grab us in their jaws, we overlook it & going a step further, we extend an olive leaf to them, very well knowing that they will be back-biting us one day or the other....
Are we a nation of cowards ?? No.....not at all. But then where has all the valor gone from us? In our mind somewhere, deep down, there is an unknown fear.... which is genetic within us, an in-born anxiety....But why, what could be the reason behind this??.....While reading Mahabharata sometime ago, this thought suddenly struck my mind....was it the battle of Mahabharata that wiped out all the warriors & their families completely from this land of warriors?? Is it the fear of another such blood-shed that makes us defensive rather than fighting back ? Yes, I think, perhaps... that could be the reason. The gruesome battle of Mahabharata has left an indelible mark on the psyche of the Indians - born & even unborn, for many more thousand years or maybe forever....The warriors have all been decimated from this land & what is left behind is the fear which is entwined within all of us unknowingly ; which has with time, become an inseparable & distinct trait of ours. And we have to live with this inborn trait whether we like it or not because that is what makes the Indians of the post Mahabharata age !! The violent streaks that we are witnessing in today's India may also be perhaps an out-pour of that suppressed fear buried with us by birth. The reason behind is that, its always the weak who display such a behavior. Most often it is the physically weak who gets targeted and attacked by a mentally weak oppressor. The oppressor does so to prove his "strength" and more than proving a point to others, it's a point that they want to drive home within, to satisfy their own hollow & spineless selves !! So although Lord Krishna played a key role in the onset of battle of Mahabharata to administer justice for the Pancha- Pandavas, but that destruction resulted in the uprooting of valour & positive aggression from an entire Indian race ; & in turn sowed the seed of eternal fear, timidity & defensive Indians for generations to come.......

With Warm Wishes,

 

Manmohan Kumar

 

From: gs@sainiksangh.org
To: kptuli@yahoo.com; rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 18:49:51 +0530
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

WHAT PIPE DREAMING BY EITHER PAID AGENTS OUT FOR MISCHIEF OR SIMPLY  DUMB INTELLECTUALS  OR  UNOCCUPIED KEYBOARD LOVERS AND  HAVE  NO CONSTRUCTIVE MIND OR JUST DAY DREAMERS

FIRST WHEN WAS THERE EVER A ‘HINDU ’  NATION IN HUMAN HISTORY? THERE WAS A MAURYAN EMPIRE , MARATHA NATION , RAJPUT  KINGDOMS BUT YET NO NATION, THE MOGHUL EMPIRE  AND NO MORE  OF COURSE THE CHRISTIAN BRITISH EMPIRE . THE BULK OF WHAT ARE CALLED HINDUS WERE JUST  MENIAL SERVANTS , UNTOUCHABLES , PETTY TRADERS , WORKERS, FARMERS  , BOOK KEEPERS , JEWELERS , REST LOOTERS MARAUDERS ETC  AND TEMPLE PRIESTS . NOW HAVING BEEN CHRISTENED INTO WESTERN STYLE DEMOCRACY WHAT GREAT ENGINE OF POWER AND WISDOM  HAVE HINDUS BECOME? WHEN TWO HINDUS  ARE NOT SIMILAR  , NOR LOOK ALIKE , NOR SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE  NOR TRUST EACH OTHER, NOR  HAVE ANY STAMP OF THEIR OWN- HAVE NO LANGUAGE THE MAIN DISTINCTION OF A NATION –NO LEADER ( DON’T SAY THAT TILAKDHARI MODI OR TAGODIA ARE LEADERS) NO FLAG ! SO I DO NOT KNOW TO WHAT SPECIS OF HUMANS  YOU ARE REFERING TO? THE ONLY THOUGHT ONE COULD HAVE OF THIS NATURE WAS IN THE MONARCHY OF NEPAL THAT WAS A HINDU NATION THE LAST ONE .

NEXT YOU CANNOT RUN THIS NATION WHICH IS 80% HINDUS HOW CAN YLOU RUN A 100% ONE?

ANDS WHO MADE ALL THE MESS YOU ARE SO FED UP WITH IF NOGT ONLY HINDUS ?   WASN’T GANDHI A HINDU, NEHRU TOO, SHASHTRI TOO, ATAL BIHARI TOO ETC ETC .

WHY DO YOU KEEP BLAMING NEHRU HE IS DEAD WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER HIM?

AND WHAT IS THIS GIMMICK INDIA RESISTS RESISTS WHAT   ?

 A  PEOPLE USED TO BEING SLAVES WILL REMAIN SO HOWEVER  COSMETIC CHANGES THEY MAY ACQUIRE UNLESS THEY OVERTHROW THEIR MASTER . THE TRUTH IS IF THE MASTER HANDS OVER THE KEYS OF HIS ESTATE FOR SAFE KEEPING AND HE MAKES A RETREAT THAT DLOESNT CHANGE THE SLAVE ! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SUFFERING FROM WHICH MAKES   HINDUS A SUBMISSIVE AND EVASSIVE CONGREGATION WITH LITTLE  MAKINGS OF A NATION!

A  NATIONALIST            

 

From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net [mailto:indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of krishan tuli
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:59 AM
To: rajiv upadhyay; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

BECAUSE OF LACK OF VISION ON PART OF NEHRU WE ARE STUCH WITH LIFE-LONG NATIONAL PROBLEMS  LIKE PARTITION OF COUNTRY,  LIFE-LONG KASHMIR ISSUE, LIFE-LONG CHINA ENMITY,  LACK OF NATIONAL LANGUAGE,  PERMANENT ESTABLSHED OCCUPATION OF GOVT CONTROL BY NEHRU FAMILY  ETC ETC  ETC

 

From: rajiv upadhyay <rajiv_upadhyay2003@yahoo.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?

 

Sir ,

Why not actively and democratically seek an amendment in constitution . It may materialise slowly but certainly. 

 

From: Babubhai Vaghela <vaghelabd@yahoo.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:26 AM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Why Hindus not setup new Nation?


Dear All, At times I wonder as to why Hindus not create and setup
altogather a new Nation called HINDUSTAN somewhere in this vast planet
Earth? With warm regards,

--
(Babubhai Vaghela)
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(Administrator - Google Group - Right to Information Act 2005)
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