Saturday, August 9, 2014

Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Dear Mr. Gaur

I think Col TTK was referring to my reply to our friend Vinod Bansal-ji.

Let me say firstly that this thread and the various comments posted
(which I have been carefully observing since the start) shows that 80%
of this list clearly does not have what it takes to be
"anti-corruption fighters". Yeah, sure they can posture, do
naare-baazi, email-baazi, Twitter+shitter, but after that ZERO.

Did anyone before replying to Mr. Jasim Mohd's post even examine it,
its self evident mistakes, or question why it is drafted like this ?
Everyone from the Hindu-party was so happy to see a solid respectable
Muslim member of UP (Director of Aligarh's Muslim Chamber of Commerce)
no less, writing music for their ears in highly polished language.

Let me clearly tell you that anybody who cares to check online will
see that a) There is no such notable Muslim Chamber of Commerce
Aligarh, and the email ID used "jasimoffice@gmail.com" is a throwaway
account used for the first time on our list.

Further, Mr. Jasim Mohd, is a veteran of AMU politics and pressure
politics posing as a anti-corruption person who uses RTI in UP. He is
actually a declared ardent Congress supporter, and this post about
banning cow slaughter in UP is simply a Congress game-plan to get BJP
to somehow ban beef exports as they promised pre-polls. The affected
persons will be the low caste Muslims in the animal trade (Butchers,
tanners, skinners, leather industry) and is intended to drive these
categories back to the Congress (which is the high caste Muslims). BJP
has seen through this game.

For the record, India's "beef exports" is 96% buffalo meat, low grade,
half the price of international beef from Australia and Brazil and
most of the buffalos slaughtered are males, old and diseased or
suffering from Foot and Mouth disease which Indian bovines develop due
to overuse of anti-biotics and other chemicals to boost milk
production. India largest customer for such "beef" is China, which due
to WTO norms smuggles it in through Vietnam and Thailand. This beef is
also used for havala trade which is in the hands of bania community
doing under-invoicing between India and China counter-trade. So you
can all be reassured that unless the BJP is exceptionally foolish
there is no danger of "beef export" being banned in long-term.

Sarbajit

On 8/8/14, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 8/8/14
> Dear Sir,I did not find any rejoinder from S. Roy on this link.Mr. Jasim
> Mohammed, to start with, had suggested ban on cow slaughter in the interest
> of farmers and health of the children.In the process he quoted figure of
> milk production and export of meat to earn foreign exchange.But the
> discussion shfted to individual choice, religion and what happned during
> times of Vedas. Why go so far and see what has been provided in the
> Constitution which should govern the conduct of the Govt., the laws to be
> enacted and enforced.Mr. Jasim Mohd. figure of mild production and
> consumption of about 140 m. tons appears correct, though I feel the
> consumption should be in reality more otherwise people will not resort to
> such large scale adulteration as reported from time to time. India is not
> exporting nor can it export milk in the face of stiff competition from
> Australia Newzealand and european countries.India is exporting meat mainly
> as frozen to the gulf an d middle eastern countries but the figures quoted
> by him need to be rechecked.As per economic survey ofthe Govt.2008-9 the
> export of meat in 2007 was onlyUSD.931 Million which was less than 1% of
> total world trade. Surely it could not jump so high? Suggest recheck figure
> from the Annual Economic Survey presented by the Govt. only last month.APEDA
> figures if correctly reported appear suspect.Now I wish to quote Article 48
> of the Constitution pertaining to Directive Principles of State, which are
> akin to fundamental rights except that they cannot be enforced in law
> Courts-"The State shall endeavour... and Shall take steps fir preserving and
> improving the breeds and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and
> other m ilch and draught cattle".While the centre has failed to bring any
> legislation, some states have banned the slaughter of cows.I therefore fully
> support what Mr. Jasim Mohd had proposed. There is need to increase the
> production of mild,as we are the only country consuming fresh milk
> throughout the day.India has the highest cattle population in the worl but
> poor in health.If some people want justification on economic,religous or
> scientific basis,there is ample justification.RegdsJKGaur
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Increasing cases of porn

Dear Ankhit

Ask yourself:

1) What can be done about this ?
2) What can 1 person do against this ?
3) What can *I* do about this ?

Then post your brief answers to this list and I will show you what *I*
am doing about this problem and what *you* can do about this, and what
*we* can do about this.

Don't place your faith in Mr. Modi - he (and his ministers) are very
much involved in spreading this American filth in our nation as was
the previous ruling dispensation. As always they take action against
the small fish, but the big ones like Twitter and Google become bigger
and bigger.

Sarbajit

On 8/8/14, Ankit Khetan <ankkhe2002@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Whether twitter familiarity is due to twitter supporting porn full
> fledgedly?
> And can we ask Narendra Modi to stop supporting twitter and show a greater
> respect for woman?
>
> Ankit Khetan
> India
Posted by at No comments:

[HumJanenge] Natgrid's CDACPUNE.IN illegal domain takedown

Natgrid's CDACPUNE.IN illegal domain takedown

"2-3 days later I got some phone calls from NATGRID that publication of any material about NATGRID is a violation of Official Secrets Act, and that nothing about Natgrid can be published in public domain since Natgrid is an exempted organisation under RTI Act etc. I disagreed with their interpretation as almost all the material is compiled from reliable 3rd party sources which are easily accessed online - such as DoPT's website, Rajya Sabha reply to questions, and former NATGRID CEO Raghu Raman's own blog in Livemint.

Abuse of NATGRID's secret powers completely violates IT Act 2008 and Blocking  Rules 2009.

Sarbajit

--
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Posted by at No comments:

Friday, August 8, 2014

Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

I believe a forum like "indiaresists" should be the one where we can share our knowledge and ignorance alike, freely. Remarks made in ignorance should be tolerated, but the forum should not tolerate one who is adamant to be ignorant

vinod bansal 


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Shantharam Shenai <garbageguru@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends,

Harassment of the INDIAN COW took place only due to the commercialisation of milk and meat.

The value & merit of the INDIAN cow does not get properly evaluated in the buisness of auction.

The intangible benefits of the INDIAN COW far exceed any G.D.P. determined model.

I am ashamed to declare that a relative of my elder sister ( brother in law ) owns AL KABEER.

He is an ex NAVY officer. !

When the true economic value of the INDIAN Cow is understood, NO one will slaughter cows, or export the meat.

MOO MOO,

Shantharam Shenai





 


On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
8/8/14
Dear Sir,
I did not find any rejoinder from S. Roy on this link.
Mr. Jasim Mohammed, to start with, had suggested ban on cow slaughter in the interest of farmers and health of the children.
In the process he quoted figure of milk production and export of meat to earn foreign exchange.
But the discussion shfted to individual choice, religion and what happned during times of Vedas. Why go so far and see what has been provided in the Constitution which should govern the conduct of the Govt., the laws to be enacted and enforced.
Mr. Jasim Mohd. figure of mild production and consumption of about 140 m. tons appears correct, though I feel the consumption should be in reality more otherwise people will not resort to such large scale adulteration as reported from time to time. India is not exporting nor can it export milk in the face of stiff competition from Australia Newzealand and european countries.
India is exporting meat mainly as frozen to the gulf an  d middle eastern countries but the figures quoted by him need to be rechecked.As per economic survey ofthe Govt.2008-9 the export of meat in 2007 was onlyUSD.931 Million which was less than 1% of total world trade. Surely it could not jump so high? Suggest recheck figure from the Annual Economic Survey presented by the Govt. only last month.APEDA figures if correctly reported appear suspect.
Now I wish to quote Article 48 of the Constitution pertaining to Directive Principles of State, which are akin to fundamental rights except that they cannot be enforced in law Courts-
"The State shall endeavour... and Shall take steps fir preserving and improving the breeds and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other m ilch and draught cattle".
While the centre has failed to bring any legislation, some states have banned the slaughter of cows.
I therefore fully support what Mr. Jasim Mohd had proposed. There is need to increase the production of mild,as we are the only country consuming fresh milk throughout the day.India has the highest cattle population in the worl but poor in health.
If some people want justification on economic,religous or scientific basis,there is ample justification.
Regds
JKGaur

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 21:08:00 +0530
From: ltcolttkishore@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy


Dear all in general and Sarvasri DiwanSingh and Bansal in particular.
Greetings.
What Er Sarbajit Roy has stated in his rejoinder ought to be understood and one should not argue for the sake of argument.
When ' Karma Kand' wrt to yajnas and kratuvus are referred it would be better to be more knowledgeable and learn from Vedic authorities one can approach.( Iam not an Authority).
 Pashu Medha viz offering of Sheep/ goat/ horse/ cow and culminating in NarMedha is not a common ritual but a unique / rare affair. Further it was mentioned that NarMedha has an alternative of offering a recently martyred Warriors head and need not always be a living human being. 
Coming to Emperor Ashoka' s change of heart and adaption of concept of equality of all living creatures , it is a phase in evolution of human thought. Incidentally it is said Lord Buddha fell ill and died owing to consumption of putrid pork ( hog meat)dropped in his Begging Bowl( May be carelessly) and The Enlightened One had decided Not to reject the same to uphold the owes of Monkhood and Sanghm..
Coming to the present times what was good or bad  norms in the ancient times would evolve in to an acceptable form for this society.
As declared by evolved sages of yore, " Let good and fresh thoughts enter our mind from all directions". 
VeteranTTK

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014, Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Kishore,
I do not think the debate is much about Hinduism or it would be misplaced. In India, we have had a evolving culture. What happened in ancient times is not Bible's testament for us. We can adore, worship as well as abuse our devi devtas, with no qualms, no sacrilege. 
Its a flexible atmosphere in India and we can freely talk about whats right and wrong and not borrowing everything from past, or whats written in a religious text.
At many places in India meat eating is a norm , so people from those regions are bound to react.
I believe compassion, non-violence is a characteristics of brave people. To me meat eating is not an act of compassion. when confronted with a violent opponent, nothing wrong in getting violent. I have always done  so and would always be. But killing someone who is defenceless, speechless, weak, innocent, does not appeal to me. So, I do not eat meat. Everybody is free to have their opinion.  


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
Indian Hindus who are meat eaters , usually consume  chicken/ duck/fowl meat ,mutton, fish and a few also consume buffaloe meat
( as a matter of taste or economics). All Hindus abhor Cows' meat. ( bulls, Oxen are NOT Cows). So raising hackles on the meat eating  preferences of Indian Hindus is a non argument. There cannot be a vegetarian vs non vegeterian  debate with underlying 
Tones of sanctimonious attitude. A Hindu in pursuit of truth adapts a diet to match his ,' tatvas' ie characteristics viz., Satvik/ Rajo/ tamas way of life. No superiority is noted based on diet . Ancient Rishi/ Munis treated diet as a sustenance of the physical body which is used in pursuit of ,' TRUTH'. We have anecdote of Agastya eating and digesting , Vatapi morphed as sheep and used as mutton to feed the sage. Even amongst the Caste Brahmins, the , ' Sakteyas' like Bengali/ Kashmiri/ Moiwal Brahmins have a diet of Fish and Mutton, but chicken/ eggs/ pork is treated impure. Cow is deified as it is an important link in the food chain for Satvilk 
People and the main source for bulls and oxen very critical for agriculture.
Veteran TTK




On Monday, August 4, 2014, apvergheses <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Arguments on moral ground with myopic views to create differences in society on the strength of circumstances need to be condemned. What right any one has to disturb the social fabric of the country by pushing what an individual wants. This world will become a mad place if every body is allowed to fight for what he thinks is right. These people talk about killing with out understanding that life is there in every thing they eat and drink. Does he not know that human being had to eliminate animals when they become a threat or nuisance leave aside need to fill the stomach. Large majority of people lived for ages and still living in this world by eating nonveg. Some health problem mental or physical can create hatred for some food we eat.  Better not to impose such feelings on others to maintain harmony. 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Diwan Singh
Date:04/08/2014 17:20 (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Poonamji,

Hindu is not a religion unlike Muslim or christianity. Its a culture, evolved over times.
Whether you consider me a Hindu or not, I do not care, but I am an Indian and have inherited some ethos from my parents and society that compassion is what defines humanity.
I am a pure vegetarian and would like ban on chicken and mutton too. Rather, in some manner I am trying at a level.
Please do not mislead by calling it a Hindu agenda. Sorry! Hindus, almost all over the country eat meat. At some places they eat beef as well.
I believe its a matter of your moral duty to other living beings. 

And, we should not brush off an issue by raising question on other issues. If you do not feel a moral duty to stop such slaughter, its your choice.





On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Poonam Agarwal <poonam.agarwal88@gmail.com> wrote:
The discussion is neither scientific , economic or moral.it is simply HINDUTVA driven COW centric discussion...do any one has courage to ban chicken and goats????'.......come on scientific and moral people....let us talk about banning chicken and goat..
On Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM, "Diwan Singh" <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:

Gaushalas are the place where abandoned cattle should go.  Thats what the system rightfully devised by our ancestors. 
Also, Mr Batti, our sacrificial practices have evolved and we do not follow that now. Certainly, there are greater moral reasons not to kill the animals. Morality has a place in society, its above science, economics, and selfishness. If we do not bother about that, then there is hardly any scope for arguement.

On 3 Aug 2014 04:16, "Aikant Bhatti" <dr3917@gmail.com> wrote:

I would differ on the opinion, about meat export and cow slaughter. I guess every one must have seen cows, on roads at times being killed or maimed by the vehicular traffic. We can also find cattle eating rubbish at the garbage dumps, to simplify "no one" cares but every one wants the profit through milk or meat.
Cow has been referred to be holy animal and has religious sentiments attached to it.
If we look at times when settlers we settling along the indus river and civilization was expanding animals were being domesticated cows, goats, ox, sheeps and horses for the purpose of agriculture and as a  source of proteins.

Meat was used since vedic times for sacrifices and it included goats, sheeps, cows, bulls and horses.  Yagas with animal sacrifices were being performed and the slaughtered animal was regarded as holy food, which was distributed and cooked. The meat was integral part of the culture since the beginning of the civilisation.
However the concern is " Not" to eat beef or not to eat beef. The concern is to  why not rest the poor animal who in any case will be end being hit by a vehicle or eating rubbish.
I strongly feel that ancient religious practice's  need to be validated with scientific findings and sound reasoning.

On 1 Aug 2014 11:03, "Dharmendra Kumar Dewan" <dsmcho@gmail.com> wrote:
i am in agreement with the unbiased, scientific & nationalistic views expressed by the writer Mr Jasmin Mohammed....this is how we as indians should think & act ...


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jasim Mohammad <jasimmd@gmail.com> wrote:

" Stop Meat Export , Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy"                  

* Jasim Mohammad                                                                                                                       Since ancient times , animals particularly cow and buffaloes have special place n our civilisation. Perhaps India is the only country where certain animals including cow are being worshipped and regarded as holy. Hindu religious texts are full of their glory. Just before independence Indian cultivation was heavily depended on cow dung fertilizers. Tilting of land was under taken by buffalo pushing. In short our whole socio - cultural set up was depended upon them.

       But with changing times and the industrial revolution and market economy changes in the pattern of cultivation and our attitude towards the animals drastically changed. In the begining it was presumed that the change priorities will help the nation to be more strong economically but with he passage of time it is being analysed that un-checked export of meat and meat based products apart of abandoning cow dung fertilizer have resulted in weakening us economically and  on health grounds. Chemical fertilizers are harming not only our health but also minimising the fertility of the land we cultivate.
                   

The biggest challenge to our socio - cultural mind set and requirement have came from meat export in our zeal to earn more and more foreign exchange. No doubt the country needs and badly needs the foreign exchange but at the same time we must be careful for our own needs. The disbalances which we have created are resulting in the downfall of not our health but future of our next generation.
              

India, a country where eating meat particularly beef is a sensitive religious issue , has become the biggest meat exporter in the world beating the Brazil. Data of ministry of Food Processing shows that India exported 1.89 million tonnes of beef ( larger part in buffalo meat ) in 2012 - 2013 which was 50% increase over last five years.
          

As far as earnings from meat export are concerned , it touched to 21,000 crore in 2012 - 2013. India has major markets in USA,Europe, Gulf and South Asian countries.
             

Even the US Department of Agriculture ( USdA ) has acknowledged that the Indian government has played a vital role in enhancing meat and meat products exports. Uttar Pradesh is the biggest producer of export oriented meat while Kerala is the biggest consumer domestically. Cow slaughter is banned all over the country except Kerala, West Bengal and the North Eastern states.

In general meat and particularly beef has become an important foreign exchange earner in India among the agriculture based commodity after Basmati rice with 31% increase in quantity and 52 % rise in value terms during 2013 - 2014.According to figures of Agriculture & Processed Food Products Export Development Authority ( APEDA ) the beef export totaled 1449759 tonnes worth of Rs. 26458 crore lat year. The figure are really surprising for a country where meat particularly beef eating is supposed to be a taboo and has religious implications.
>                    

The zeal on the part of individual meat business men and the government to earn the foreign exchange has resulted in depriving domestic consumers for healthy meat and milk for the next generation on whom our whole survival depends. Apart of that the cow dung fertilizer has become a rare thing and our cultivation and agricultural activites especially vegitable cultivation are highly suffering. The farmers are using chemical fertilizers which is resulting in either over fertilising or less due to illiteracy and on being ignorant scientifically. Milk is the essential commodity for healthy development of our children. But it is in short supply and out of reach of large section of Indian citizenary and the result is that we have an under nourished childhood and are consiquently producing weak and unhealthy citizen. That is not good for the nation as a whole.
>                     

As far as milk is concerned , it is livestock enterprise in which small farmers can successfully engage in order to improve their livlihood. Regular milk supplies allow them to move from subsistence to a market based income.
>               

Milk production is estimated to have declined marginally to 134.5 million tonnes in the last year though expected to be 140.6 million tonnes in the current year. Total Indian milk consumption is set to match with its production this year while domestic consumption is pegged at 425000 tonnes.
>                           

Cow dung or manure as fertilizer is very good for cultivation. when composed it has nutrient rich elements. It is also used as fuel which is environment friendly. The government should encourage masses to use cow dung as fuel as far as they can because it will save the gas for future and is economicall viable.
>                        

In general meat eating and particularly beef eating is not part of our culture and is treated as taboo. It hurts religious feelings of largest religious group in India. In some cases this beef and meat has become tool of communal disharmony and flare up. Every nation needs peace and social harmony for its development and that is not possible till we balance our needs with the feelings of other social and religious groups.
>                       

Hence meat export should be contained at minimum level. The better will be to completely ban the meat particularly beef export. By that our children will get better quality milk and the farmers will have rich dung fertilizer at no extra cost which will economically boost the farming in the country and will enhance agriculture income.
>                          

Some people and lobbies take shelter under misguided plea that exports are essential for growth of country. That is right but if impartially calculated one will find that the loss from stopping meat export will be less than the increase in the export of milk and milk products. This is a crucial year in which our milk production will be just near to domestic demands.This is the year in which we have to take a positive decision in the interest of future of our children, communal harmony and national income growth and completely ban meat especially beef export.
>                                 

If the present central government has political will and courage , it should take the revolutionary decision and jump out of the net spread by some individuals and foreign countries in favour of meat export and ban it. the history will not only record the gains socially as well as economically of Modi government but will also realise dream of largest religious section of Indian masses.

* Jasim Mohammad is Director, Muslim Chamber of Commerce & Industry, Aligarh . He can be reached at jasimoffice@gmail.com


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Posted by at No comments:

RE: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

8/8/14
Dear Sir,
I did not find any rejoinder from S. Roy on this link.
Mr. Jasim Mohammed, to start with, had suggested ban on cow slaughter in the interest of farmers and health of the children.
In the process he quoted figure of milk production and export of meat to earn foreign exchange.
But the discussion shfted to individual choice, religion and what happned during times of Vedas. Why go so far and see what has been provided in the Constitution which should govern the conduct of the Govt., the laws to be enacted and enforced.
Mr. Jasim Mohd. figure of mild production and consumption of about 140 m. tons appears correct, though I feel the consumption should be in reality more otherwise people will not resort to such large scale adulteration as reported from time to time. India is not exporting nor can it export milk in the face of stiff competition from Australia Newzealand and european countries.
India is exporting meat mainly as frozen to the gulf an  d middle eastern countries but the figures quoted by him need to be rechecked.As per economic survey ofthe Govt.2008-9 the export of meat in 2007 was onlyUSD.931 Million which was less than 1% of total world trade. Surely it could not jump so high? Suggest recheck figure from the Annual Economic Survey presented by the Govt. only last month.APEDA figures if correctly reported appear suspect.
Now I wish to quote Article 48 of the Constitution pertaining to Directive Principles of State, which are akin to fundamental rights except that they cannot be enforced in law Courts-
"The State shall endeavour... and Shall take steps fir preserving and improving the breeds and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other m ilch and draught cattle".
While the centre has failed to bring any legislation, some states have banned the slaughter of cows.
I therefore fully support what Mr. Jasim Mohd had proposed. There is need to increase the production of mild,as we are the only country consuming fresh milk throughout the day.India has the highest cattle population in the worl but poor in health.
If some people want justification on economic,religous or scientific basis,there is ample justification.
Regds
JKGaur

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 21:08:00 +0530
From: ltcolttkishore@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Dear all in general and Sarvasri DiwanSingh and Bansal in particular.
Greetings.
What Er Sarbajit Roy has stated in his rejoinder ought to be understood and one should not argue for the sake of argument.
When ' Karma Kand' wrt to yajnas and kratuvus are referred it would be better to be more knowledgeable and learn from Vedic authorities one can approach.( Iam not an Authority).
 Pashu Medha viz offering of Sheep/ goat/ horse/ cow and culminating in NarMedha is not a common ritual but a unique / rare affair. Further it was mentioned that NarMedha has an alternative of offering a recently martyred Warriors head and need not always be a living human being. 
Coming to Emperor Ashoka' s change of heart and adaption of concept of equality of all living creatures , it is a phase in evolution of human thought. Incidentally it is said Lord Buddha fell ill and died owing to consumption of putrid pork ( hog meat)dropped in his Begging Bowl( May be carelessly) and The Enlightened One had decided Not to reject the same to uphold the owes of Monkhood and Sanghm..
Coming to the present times what was good or bad  norms in the ancient times would evolve in to an acceptable form for this society.
As declared by evolved sages of yore, " Let good and fresh thoughts enter our mind from all directions". 
VeteranTTK

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014, Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Kishore,
I do not think the debate is much about Hinduism or it would be misplaced. In India, we have had a evolving culture. What happened in ancient times is not Bible's testament for us. We can adore, worship as well as abuse our devi devtas, with no qualms, no sacrilege. 
Its a flexible atmosphere in India and we can freely talk about whats right and wrong and not borrowing everything from past, or whats written in a religious text.
At many places in India meat eating is a norm , so people from those regions are bound to react.
I believe compassion, non-violence is a characteristics of brave people. To me meat eating is not an act of compassion. when confronted with a violent opponent, nothing wrong in getting violent. I have always done  so and would always be. But killing someone who is defenceless, speechless, weak, innocent, does not appeal to me. So, I do not eat meat. Everybody is free to have their opinion.  


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
Indian Hindus who are meat eaters , usually consume  chicken/ duck/fowl meat ,mutton, fish and a few also consume buffaloe meat
( as a matter of taste or economics). All Hindus abhor Cows' meat. ( bulls, Oxen are NOT Cows). So raising hackles on the meat eating  preferences of Indian Hindus is a non argument. There cannot be a vegetarian vs non vegeterian  debate with underlying 
Tones of sanctimonious attitude. A Hindu in pursuit of truth adapts a diet to match his ,' tatvas' ie characteristics viz., Satvik/ Rajo/ tamas way of life. No superiority is noted based on diet . Ancient Rishi/ Munis treated diet as a sustenance of the physical body which is used in pursuit of ,' TRUTH'. We have anecdote of Agastya eating and digesting , Vatapi morphed as sheep and used as mutton to feed the sage. Even amongst the Caste Brahmins, the , ' Sakteyas' like Bengali/ Kashmiri/ Moiwal Brahmins have a diet of Fish and Mutton, but chicken/ eggs/ pork is treated impure. Cow is deified as it is an important link in the food chain for Satvilk 
People and the main source for bulls and oxen very critical for agriculture.
Veteran TTK




On Monday, August 4, 2014, apvergheses <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Arguments on moral ground with myopic views to create differences in society on the strength of circumstances need to be condemned. What right any one has to disturb the social fabric of the country by pushing what an individual wants. This world will become a mad place if every body is allowed to fight for what he thinks is right. These people talk about killing with out understanding that life is there in every thing they eat and drink. Does he not know that human being had to eliminate animals when they become a threat or nuisance leave aside need to fill the stomach. Large majority of people lived for ages and still living in this world by eating nonveg. Some health problem mental or physical can create hatred for some food we eat.  Better not to impose such feelings on others to maintain harmony. 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Diwan Singh
Date:04/08/2014 17:20 (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Poonamji,

Hindu is not a religion unlike Muslim or christianity. Its a culture, evolved over times.
Whether you consider me a Hindu or not, I do not care, but I am an Indian and have inherited some ethos from my parents and society that compassion is what defines humanity.
I am a pure vegetarian and would like ban on chicken and mutton too. Rather, in some manner I am trying at a level.
Please do not mislead by calling it a Hindu agenda. Sorry! Hindus, almost all over the country eat meat. At some places they eat beef as well.
I believe its a matter of your moral duty to other living beings. 

And, we should not brush off an issue by raising question on other issues. If you do not feel a moral duty to stop such slaughter, its your choice.





On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Poonam Agarwal <poonam.agarwal88@gmail.com> wrote:
The discussion is neither scientific , economic or moral.it is simply HINDUTVA driven COW centric discussion...do any one has courage to ban chicken and goats????'.......come on scientific and moral people....let us talk about banning chicken and goat..
On Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM, "Diwan Singh" <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:

Gaushalas are the place where abandoned cattle should go.  Thats what the system rightfully devised by our ancestors. 
Also, Mr Batti, our sacrificial practices have evolved and we do not follow that now. Certainly, there are greater moral reasons not to kill the animals. Morality has a place in society, its above science, economics, and selfishness. If we do not bother about that, then there is hardly any scope for arguement.

On 3 Aug 2014 04:16, "Aikant Bhatti" <dr3917@gmail.com> wrote:

I would differ on the opinion, about meat export and cow slaughter. I guess every one must have seen cows, on roads at times being killed or maimed by the vehicular traffic. We can also find cattle eating rubbish at the garbage dumps, to simplify "no one" cares but every one wants the profit through milk or meat.
Cow has been referred to be holy animal and has religious sentiments attached to it.
If we look at times when settlers we settling along the indus river and civilization was expanding animals were being domesticated cows, goats, ox, sheeps and horses for the purpose of agriculture and as a  source of proteins.

Meat was used since vedic times for sacrifices and it included goats, sheeps, cows, bulls and horses.  Yagas with animal sacrifices were being performed and the slaughtered animal was regarded as holy food, which was distributed and cooked. The meat was integral part of the culture since the beginning of the civilisation.
However the concern is " Not" to eat beef or not to eat beef. The concern is to  why not rest the poor animal who in any case will be end being hit by a vehicle or eating rubbish.
I strongly feel that ancient religious practice's  need to be validated with scientific findings and sound reasoning.

On 1 Aug 2014 11:03, "Dharmendra Kumar Dewan" <dsmcho@gmail.com> wrote:
i am in agreement with the unbiased, scientific & nationalistic views expressed by the writer Mr Jasmin Mohammed....this is how we as indians should think & act ...


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jasim Mohammad <jasimmd@gmail.com> wrote:

" Stop Meat Export , Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy"                  

* Jasim Mohammad                                                                                                                       Since ancient times , animals particularly cow and buffaloes have special place n our civilisation. Perhaps India is the only country where certain animals including cow are being worshipped and regarded as holy. Hindu religious texts are full of their glory. Just before independence Indian cultivation was heavily depended on cow dung fertilizers. Tilting of land was under taken by buffalo pushing. In short our whole socio - cultural set up was depended upon them.

       But with changing times and the industrial revolution and market economy changes in the pattern of cultivation and our attitude towards the animals drastically changed. In the begining it was presumed that the change priorities will help the nation to be more strong economically but with he passage of time it is being analysed that un-checked export of meat and meat based products apart of abandoning cow dung fertilizer have resulted in weakening us economically and  on health grounds. Chemical fertilizers are harming not only our health but also minimising the fertility of the land we cultivate.
                   

The biggest challenge to our socio - cultural mind set and requirement have came from meat export in our zeal to earn more and more foreign exchange. No doubt the country needs and badly needs the foreign exchange but at the same time we must be careful for our own needs. The disbalances which we have created are resulting in the downfall of not our health but future of our next generation.
              

India, a country where eating meat particularly beef is a sensitive religious issue , has become the biggest meat exporter in the world beating the Brazil. Data of ministry of Food Processing shows that India exported 1.89 million tonnes of beef ( larger part in buffalo meat ) in 2012 - 2013 which was 50% increase over last five years.
          

As far as earnings from meat export are concerned , it touched to 21,000 crore in 2012 - 2013. India has major markets in USA,Europe, Gulf and South Asian countries.
             

Even the US Department of Agriculture ( USdA ) has acknowledged that the Indian government has played a vital role in enhancing meat and meat products exports. Uttar Pradesh is the biggest producer of export oriented meat while Kerala is the biggest consumer domestically. Cow slaughter is banned all over the country except Kerala, West Bengal and the North Eastern states.

In general meat and particularly beef has become an important foreign exchange earner in India among the agriculture based commodity after Basmati rice with 31% increase in quantity and 52 % rise in value terms during 2013 - 2014.According to figures of Agriculture & Processed Food Products Export Development Authority ( APEDA ) the beef export totaled 1449759 tonnes worth of Rs. 26458 crore lat year. The figure are really surprising for a country where meat particularly beef eating is supposed to be a taboo and has religious implications.
>                    

The zeal on the part of individual meat business men and the government to earn the foreign exchange has resulted in depriving domestic consumers for healthy meat and milk for the next generation on whom our whole survival depends. Apart of that the cow dung fertilizer has become a rare thing and our cultivation and agricultural activites especially vegitable cultivation are highly suffering. The farmers are using chemical fertilizers which is resulting in either over fertilising or less due to illiteracy and on being ignorant scientifically. Milk is the essential commodity for healthy development of our children. But it is in short supply and out of reach of large section of Indian citizenary and the result is that we have an under nourished childhood and are consiquently producing weak and unhealthy citizen. That is not good for the nation as a whole.
>                     

As far as milk is concerned , it is livestock enterprise in which small farmers can successfully engage in order to improve their livlihood. Regular milk supplies allow them to move from subsistence to a market based income.
>               

Milk production is estimated to have declined marginally to 134.5 million tonnes in the last year though expected to be 140.6 million tonnes in the current year. Total Indian milk consumption is set to match with its production this year while domestic consumption is pegged at 425000 tonnes.
>                           

Cow dung or manure as fertilizer is very good for cultivation. when composed it has nutrient rich elements. It is also used as fuel which is environment friendly. The government should encourage masses to use cow dung as fuel as far as they can because it will save the gas for future and is economicall viable.
>                        

In general meat eating and particularly beef eating is not part of our culture and is treated as taboo. It hurts religious feelings of largest religious group in India. In some cases this beef and meat has become tool of communal disharmony and flare up. Every nation needs peace and social harmony for its development and that is not possible till we balance our needs with the feelings of other social and religious groups.
>                       

Hence meat export should be contained at minimum level. The better will be to completely ban the meat particularly beef export. By that our children will get better quality milk and the farmers will have rich dung fertilizer at no extra cost which will economically boost the farming in the country and will enhance agriculture income.
>                          

Some people and lobbies take shelter under misguided plea that exports are essential for growth of country. That is right but if impartially calculated one will find that the loss from stopping meat export will be less than the increase in the export of milk and milk products. This is a crucial year in which our milk production will be just near to domestic demands.This is the year in which we have to take a positive decision in the interest of future of our children, communal harmony and national income growth and completely ban meat especially beef export.
>                                 

If the present central government has political will and courage , it should take the revolutionary decision and jump out of the net spread by some individuals and foreign countries in favour of meat export and ban it. the history will not only record the gains socially as well as economically of Modi government but will also realise dream of largest religious section of Indian masses.

* Jasim Mohammad is Director, Muslim Chamber of Commerce & Industry, Aligarh . He can be reached at jasimoffice@gmail.com


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[IAC#RG] Increasing cases of porn

Whether twitter familiarity is due to twitter supporting porn full fledgedly?
And can we ask Narendra Modi to stop supporting twitter and show a greater respect for woman?

Ankit Khetan
India

Posted by at No comments:

Wednesday, August 6, 2014

[IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Dear all in general and Sarvasri DiwanSingh and Bansal in particular.
Greetings.
What Er Sarbajit Roy has stated in his rejoinder ought to be understood and one should not argue for the sake of argument.
When ' Karma Kand' wrt to yajnas and kratuvus are referred it would be better to be more knowledgeable and learn from Vedic authorities one can approach.( Iam not an Authority).
 Pashu Medha viz offering of Sheep/ goat/ horse/ cow and culminating in NarMedha is not a common ritual but a unique / rare affair. Further it was mentioned that NarMedha has an alternative of offering a recently martyred Warriors head and need not always be a living human being. 
Coming to Emperor Ashoka' s change of heart and adaption of concept of equality of all living creatures , it is a phase in evolution of human thought. Incidentally it is said Lord Buddha fell ill and died owing to consumption of putrid pork ( hog meat)dropped in his Begging Bowl( May be carelessly) and The Enlightened One had decided Not to reject the same to uphold the owes of Monkhood and Sanghm..
Coming to the present times what was good or bad  norms in the ancient times would evolve in to an acceptable form for this society.
As declared by evolved sages of yore, " Let good and fresh thoughts enter our mind from all directions". 
VeteranTTK

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014, Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Kishore,
I do not think the debate is much about Hinduism or it would be misplaced. In India, we have had a evolving culture. What happened in ancient times is not Bible's testament for us. We can adore, worship as well as abuse our devi devtas, with no qualms, no sacrilege. 
Its a flexible atmosphere in India and we can freely talk about whats right and wrong and not borrowing everything from past, or whats written in a religious text.
At many places in India meat eating is a norm , so people from those regions are bound to react.
I believe compassion, non-violence is a characteristics of brave people. To me meat eating is not an act of compassion. when confronted with a violent opponent, nothing wrong in getting violent. I have always done  so and would always be. But killing someone who is defenceless, speechless, weak, innocent, does not appeal to me. So, I do not eat meat. Everybody is free to have their opinion.  


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
Indian Hindus who are meat eaters , usually consume  chicken/ duck/fowl meat ,mutton, fish and a few also consume buffaloe meat
( as a matter of taste or economics). All Hindus abhor Cows' meat. ( bulls, Oxen are NOT Cows). So raising hackles on the meat eating  preferences of Indian Hindus is a non argument. There cannot be a vegetarian vs non vegeterian  debate with underlying 
Tones of sanctimonious attitude. A Hindu in pursuit of truth adapts a diet to match his ,' tatvas' ie characteristics viz., Satvik/ Rajo/ tamas way of life. No superiority is noted based on diet . Ancient Rishi/ Munis treated diet as a sustenance of the physical body which is used in pursuit of ,' TRUTH'. We have anecdote of Agastya eating and digesting , Vatapi morphed as sheep and used as mutton to feed the sage. Even amongst the Caste Brahmins, the , ' Sakteyas' like Bengali/ Kashmiri/ Moiwal Brahmins have a diet of Fish and Mutton, but chicken/ eggs/ pork is treated impure. Cow is deified as it is an important link in the food chain for Satvilk 
People and the main source for bulls and oxen very critical for agriculture.
Veteran TTK




On Monday, August 4, 2014, apvergheses <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Arguments on moral ground with myopic views to create differences in society on the strength of circumstances need to be condemned. What right any one has to disturb the social fabric of the country by pushing what an individual wants. This world will become a mad place if every body is allowed to fight for what he thinks is right. These people talk about killing with out understanding that life is there in every thing they eat and drink. Does he not know that human being had to eliminate animals when they become a threat or nuisance leave aside need to fill the stomach. Large majority of people lived for ages and still living in this world by eating nonveg. Some health problem mental or physical can create hatred for some food we eat.  Better not to impose such feelings on others to maintain harmony. 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Diwan Singh
Date:04/08/2014 17:20 (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Poonamji,

Hindu is not a religion unlike Muslim or christianity. Its a culture, evolved over times.
Whether you consider me a Hindu or not, I do not care, but I am an Indian and have inherited some ethos from my parents and society that compassion is what defines humanity.
I am a pure vegetarian and would like ban on chicken and mutton too. Rather, in some manner I am trying at a level.
Please do not mislead by calling it a Hindu agenda. Sorry! Hindus, almost all over the country eat meat. At some places they eat beef as well.
I believe its a matter of your moral duty to other living beings. 

And, we should not brush off an issue by raising question on other issues. If you do not feel a moral duty to stop such slaughter, its your choice.





On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Poonam Agarwal <poonam.agarwal88@gmail.com> wrote:

The discussion is neither scientific , economic or moral.it is simply HINDUTVA driven COW centric discussion...do any one has courage to ban chicken and goats????'.......come on scientific and moral people....let us talk about banning chicken and goat..

On Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM, "Diwan Singh" <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:

Gaushalas are the place where abandoned cattle should go.  Thats what the system rightfully devised by our ancestors. 
Also, Mr Batti, our sacrificial practices have evolved and we do not follow that now. Certainly, there are greater moral reasons not to kill the animals. Morality has a place in society, its above science, economics, and selfishness. If we do not bother about that, then there is hardly any scope for arguement.

On 3 Aug 2014 04:16, "Aikant Bhatti" <dr3917@gmail.com> wrote:

I would differ on the opinion, about meat export and cow slaughter. I guess every one must have seen cows, on roads at times being killed or maimed by the vehicular traffic. We can also find cattle eating rubbish at the garbage dumps, to simplify "no one" cares but every one wants the profit through milk or meat.
Cow has been referred to be holy animal and has religious sentiments attached to it.
If we look at times when settlers we settling along the indus river and civilization was expanding animals were being domesticated cows, goats, ox, sheeps and horses for the purpose of agriculture and as a  source of proteins.

Meat was used since vedic times for sacrifices and it included goats, sheeps, cows, bulls and horses.  Yagas with animal sacrifices were being performed and the slaughtered animal was regarded as holy food, which was distributed and cooked. The meat was integral part of the culture since the beginning of the civilisation.
However the concern is " Not" to eat beef or not to eat beef. The concern is to  why not rest the poor animal who in any case will be end being hit by a vehicle or eating rubbish.
I strongly feel that ancient religious practice's  need to be validated with scientific findings and sound reasoning.

On 1 Aug 2014 11:03, "Dharmendra Kumar Dewan" <dsmcho@gmail.com> wrote:
i am in agreement with the unbiased, scientific & nationalistic views expressed by the writer Mr Jasmin Mohammed....this is how we as indians should think & act ...


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jasim Mohammad <jasimmd@gmail.com> wrote:

" Stop Meat Export , Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy"                  

* Jasim Mohammad                                                                                                                       Since ancient times , animals particularly cow and buffaloes have special place n our civilisation. Perhaps India is the only country where certain animals including cow are being worshipped and regarded as holy. Hindu religious texts are full of their glory. Just before independence Indian cultivation was heavily depended on cow dung fertilizers. Tilting of land was under taken by buffalo pushing. In short our whole socio - cultural set up was depended upon them.

       But with changing times and the industrial revolution and market economy changes in the pattern of cultivation and our attitude towards the animals drastically changed. In the begining it was presumed that the change priorities will help the nation to be more strong economically but with he passage of time it is being analysed that un-checked export of meat and meat based products apart of abandoning cow dung fertilizer have resulted in weakening us economically and  on health grounds. Chemical fertilizers are harming not only our health but also minimising the fertility of the land we cultivate.
                   

The biggest challenge to our socio - cultural mind set and requirement have came from meat export in our zeal to earn more and more foreign exchange. No doubt the country needs and badly needs the foreign exchange but at the same time we must be careful for our own needs. The disbalances which we have created are resulting in the downfall of not our health but future of our next generation.
              

India, a country where eating meat particularly beef is a sensitive religious issue , has become the biggest meat exporter in the world beating the Brazil. Data of ministry of Food Processing shows that India exported 1.89 million tonnes of beef ( larger part in buffalo meat ) in 2012 - 2013 which was 50% increase over last five years.
          

As far as earnings from meat export are concerned , it touched to 21,000 crore in 2012 - 2013. India has major markets in USA,Europe, Gulf and South Asian countries.
             

Even the US Department of Agriculture ( USdA ) has acknowledged that the Indian government has played a vital role in enhancing meat and meat products exports. Uttar Pradesh is the biggest producer of export oriented meat while Kerala is the biggest consumer domestically. Cow slaughter is banned all over the country except Kerala, West Bengal and the North Eastern states.

In general meat and particularly beef has become an important foreign exchange earner in India among the agriculture based commodity after Basmati rice with 31% increase in quantity and 52 % rise in value terms during 2013 - 2014.According to figures of Agriculture & Processed Food Products Export Development Authority ( APEDA ) the beef export totaled 1449759 tonnes worth of Rs. 26458 crore lat year. The figure are really surprising for a country where meat particularly beef eating is supposed to be a taboo and has religious implications.
>                    

The zeal on the part of individual meat business men and the government to earn the foreign exchange has resulted in depriving domestic consumers for healthy meat and milk for the next generation on whom our whole survival depends. Apart of that the cow dung fertilizer has become a rare thing and our cultivation and agricultural activites especially vegitable cultivation are highly suffering. The farmers are using chemical fertilizers which is resulting in either over fertilising or less due to illiteracy and on being ignorant scientifically. Milk is the essential commodity for healthy development of our children. But it is in short supply and out of reach of large section of Indian citizenary and the result is that we have an under nourished childhood and are consiquently producing weak and unhealthy citizen. That is not good for the nation as a whole.
>                     

As far as milk is concerned , it is livestock enterprise in which small farmers can successfully engage in order to improve their livlihood. Regular milk supplies allow them to move from subsistence to a market based income.
>               

Milk production is estimated to have declined marginally to 134.5 million tonnes in the last year though expected to be 140.6 million tonnes in the current year. Total Indian milk consumption is set to match with its production this year while domestic consumption is pegged at 425000 tonnes.
>                           

Cow dung or manure as fertilizer is very good for cultivation. when composed it has nutrient rich elements. It is also used as fuel which is environment friendly. The government should encourage masses to use cow dung as fuel as far as they can because it will save the gas for future and is economicall viable.
>                        

In general meat eating and particularly beef eating is not part of our culture and is treated as taboo. It hurts religious feelings of largest religious group in India. In some cases this beef and meat has become tool of communal disharmony and flare up. Every nation needs peace and social harmony for its development and that is not possible till we balance our needs with the feelings of other social and religious groups.
>                       

Hence meat export should be contained at minimum level. The better will be to completely ban the meat particularly beef export. By that our children will get better quality milk and the farmers will have rich dung fertilizer at no extra cost which will economically boost the farming in the country and will enhance agriculture income.
>                          

Some people and lobbies take shelter under misguided plea that exports are essential for growth of country. That is right but if impartially calculated one will find that the loss from stopping meat export will be less than the increase in the export of milk and milk products. This is a crucial year in which our milk production will be just near to domestic demands.This is the year in which we have to take a positive decision in the interest of future of our children, communal harmony and national income growth and completely ban meat especially beef export.
>                                 

If the present central government has political will and courage , it should take the revolutionary decision and jump out of the net spread by some individuals and foreign countries in favour of meat export and ban it. the history will not only record the gains socially as well as economically of Modi government but will also realise dream of largest religious section of Indian masses.

* Jasim Mohammad is Director, Muslim Chamber of Commerce & Industry, Aligarh . He can be reached at jasimoffice@gmail.com


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Tuesday, August 5, 2014

[IAC#RG] Fwd: FAUJI INDIA Magazine Launched - Please subscribe to make our voice strong - MAROOF RAZA, Editor



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fauji Magazine <faujimagazine@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 6:23 PM
Subject: FAUJI INDIA Magazine Launched - Please subscribe to make our voice strong - MAROOF RAZA, Editor
To: Fauji Magazine <faujimagazine@gmail.com>


Dear Veterans and Brother Officers,

 

The preview edition of FAUJI INDIA Magazine in print has been launched on 23rd July 2014.

 

We have finally come up with a united voice of veterans and serving sainiks for the first time in India in print media.

 

The blog is live and you can see the full magazine running in 80 pages at –faujimagazine.blogspot.in

 

It is time that you contribute to make this magazine a strong platform so that we can highlight and take the message concerning faujis to powers-to-be and make the fraternity well informed and connected.

 

For those who have not got a print copy, the blog is live and you can see the full magazine running in 80 pages at –faujimagazine.blogspot.in

 

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[HumJanenge] D form

Dears all,

my name is Anil and wouldlike to know how to get the free hold from lease hold when I do not have D form or house completion certiuficate as I am not able to find the form but my father who died in 2002 had applied for this but now it is missing or never arrived 

could you please guide as I am being asked a huge amount for the absence of this form

please guide me

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Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Mr Veteran TTK, 

Yes, you are correct that bulls and oxen are important for agriculture.
The young bulls capable of agricultural work or  milch buffaloes or even female goats or sheep, or even she camel, if fertile, are not slaughtered anywhere in the world, including India. However, there may be some stray incident but that can not be construed as a rule. Islam does not permit slaughtering of lactating or fertile female animals. But infertile females can be slaughtered even if they are young. 
Generally those animals like bulls and buffaloes are slaughtered which have become old and incapable of agricultural work or buffaloes that have crossed the age of fertility and not giving milk. So, there should not be any objection to slaughtering of such animals because you don't stand to gain anything if they are left on the road and die in accidents particularly in big cities.
Moreover, tractor and other agricultural equipment  have replaced the bulls or other animals that were once extensively used in agriculture. 
Slaughtering of cattle for meat all over the Western world is a daily affair. Yet, these countries are not facing shortage of cows, buffaloes, or sheep. And the health of their citizens is much better than we Indians. Yet, we Indians are being lectured by every Tom, Dick and Harry like Jasim Mohammed that our health will improve if the slaughter of cattle is stopped. 





On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
Indian Hindus who are meat eaters , usually consume  chicken/ duck/fowl meat ,mutton, fish and a few also consume buffaloe meat
( as a matter of taste or economics). All Hindus abhor Cows' meat. ( bulls, Oxen are NOT Cows). So raising hackles on the meat eating  preferences of Indian Hindus is a non argument. There cannot be a vegetarian vs non vegeterian  debate with underlying 
Tones of sanctimonious attitude. A Hindu in pursuit of truth adapts a diet to match his ,' tatvas' ie characteristics viz., Satvik/ Rajo/ tamas way of life. No superiority is noted based on diet . Ancient Rishi/ Munis treated diet as a sustenance of the physical body which is used in pursuit of ,' TRUTH'. We have anecdote of Agastya eating and digesting , Vatapi morphed as sheep and used as mutton to feed the sage. Even amongst the Caste Brahmins, the , ' Sakteyas' like Bengali/ Kashmiri/ Moiwal Brahmins have a diet of Fish and Mutton, but chicken/ eggs/ pork is treated impure. Cow is deified as it is an important link in the food chain for Satvilk 
People and the main source for bulls and oxen very critical for agriculture.
Veteran TTK




On Monday, August 4, 2014, apvergheses <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Arguments on moral ground with myopic views to create differences in society on the strength of circumstances need to be condemned. What right any one has to disturb the social fabric of the country by pushing what an individual wants. This world will become a mad place if every body is allowed to fight for what he thinks is right. These people talk about killing with out understanding that life is there in every thing they eat and drink. Does he not know that human being had to eliminate animals when they become a threat or nuisance leave aside need to fill the stomach. Large majority of people lived for ages and still living in this world by eating nonveg. Some health problem mental or physical can create hatred for some food we eat.  Better not to impose such feelings on others to maintain harmony. 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Diwan Singh
Date:04/08/2014 17:20 (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Poonamji,

Hindu is not a religion unlike Muslim or christianity. Its a culture, evolved over times.
Whether you consider me a Hindu or not, I do not care, but I am an Indian and have inherited some ethos from my parents and society that compassion is what defines humanity.
I am a pure vegetarian and would like ban on chicken and mutton too. Rather, in some manner I am trying at a level.
Please do not mislead by calling it a Hindu agenda. Sorry! Hindus, almost all over the country eat meat. At some places they eat beef as well.
I believe its a matter of your moral duty to other living beings. 

And, we should not brush off an issue by raising question on other issues. If you do not feel a moral duty to stop such slaughter, its your choice.





On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Poonam Agarwal <poonam.agarwal88@gmail.com> wrote:

The discussion is neither scientific , economic or moral.it is simply HINDUTVA driven COW centric discussion...do any one has courage to ban chicken and goats????'.......come on scientific and moral people....let us talk about banning chicken and goat..

On Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM, "Diwan Singh" <diwans2007@gmail.com> wrote:

Gaushalas are the place where abandoned cattle should go.  Thats what the system rightfully devised by our ancestors. 
Also, Mr Batti, our sacrificial practices have evolved and we do not follow that now. Certainly, there are greater moral reasons not to kill the animals. Morality has a place in society, its above science, economics, and selfishness. If we do not bother about that, then there is hardly any scope for arguement.

On 3 Aug 2014 04:16, "Aikant Bhatti" <dr3917@gmail.com> wrote:

I would differ on the opinion, about meat export and cow slaughter. I guess every one must have seen cows, on roads at times being killed or maimed by the vehicular traffic. We can also find cattle eating rubbish at the garbage dumps, to simplify "no one" cares but every one wants the profit through milk or meat.
Cow has been referred to be holy animal and has religious sentiments attached to it.
If we look at times when settlers we settling along the indus river and civilization was expanding animals were being domesticated cows, goats, ox, sheeps and horses for the purpose of agriculture and as a  source of proteins.

Meat was used since vedic times for sacrifices and it included goats, sheeps, cows, bulls and horses.  Yagas with animal sacrifices were being performed and the slaughtered animal was regarded as holy food, which was distributed and cooked. The meat was integral part of the culture since the beginning of the civilisation.
However the concern is " Not" to eat beef or not to eat beef. The concern is to  why not rest the poor animal who in any case will be end being hit by a vehicle or eating rubbish.
I strongly feel that ancient religious practice's  need to be validated with scientific findings and sound reasoning.

On 1 Aug 2014 11:03, "Dharmendra Kumar Dewan" <dsmcho@gmail.com> wrote:
i am in agreement with the unbiased, scientific & nationalistic views expressed by the writer Mr Jasmin Mohammed....this is how we as indians should think & act ...


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jasim Mohammad <jasimmd@gmail.com> wrote:

" Stop Meat Export , Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy"                  

* Jasim Mohammad                                                                                                                       Since ancient times , animals particularly cow and buffaloes have special place n our civilisation. Perhaps India is the only country where certain animals including cow are being worshipped and regarded as holy. Hindu religious texts are full of their glory. Just before independence Indian cultivation was heavily depended on cow dung fertilizers. Tilting of land was under taken by buffalo pushing. In short our whole socio - cultural set up was depended upon them.

       But with changing times and the industrial revolution and market economy changes in the pattern of cultivation and our attitude towards the animals drastically changed. In the begining it was presumed that the change priorities will help the nation to be more strong economically but with he passage of time it is being analysed that un-checked export of meat and meat based products apart of abandoning cow dung fertilizer have resulted in weakening us economically and  on health grounds. Chemical fertilizers are harming not only our health but also minimising the fertility of the land we cultivate.
                   

The biggest challenge to our socio - cultural mind set and requirement have came from meat export in our zeal to earn more and more foreign exchange. No doubt the country needs and badly needs the foreign exchange but at the same time we must be careful for our own needs. The disbalances which we have created are resulting in the downfall of not our health but future of our next generation.
              

India, a country where eating meat particularly beef is a sensitive religious issue , has become the biggest meat exporter in the world beating the Brazil. Data of ministry of Food Processing shows that India exported 1.89 million tonnes of beef ( larger part in buffalo meat ) in 2012 - 2013 which was 50% increase over last five years.
          

As far as earnings from meat export are concerned , it touched to 21,000 crore in 2012 - 2013. India has major markets in USA,Europe, Gulf and South Asian countries.
             

Even the US Department of Agriculture ( USdA ) has acknowledged that the Indian government has played a vital role in enhancing meat and meat products exports. Uttar Pradesh is the biggest producer of export oriented meat while Kerala is the biggest consumer domestically. Cow slaughter is banned all over the country except Kerala, West Bengal and the North Eastern states.

In general meat and particularly beef has become an important foreign exchange earner in India among the agriculture based commodity after Basmati rice with 31% increase in quantity and 52 % rise in value terms during 2013 - 2014.According to figures of Agriculture & Processed Food Products Export Development Authority ( APEDA ) the beef export totaled 1449759 tonnes worth of Rs. 26458 crore lat year. The figure are really surprising for a country where meat particularly beef eating is supposed to be a taboo and has religious implications.
>                    

The zeal on the part of individual meat business men and the government to earn the foreign exchange has resulted in depriving domestic consumers for healthy meat and milk for the next generation on whom our whole survival depends. Apart of that the cow dung fertilizer has become a rare thing and our cultivation and agricultural activites especially vegitable cultivation are highly suffering. The farmers are using chemical fertilizers which is resulting in either over fertilising or less due to illiteracy and on being ignorant scientifically. Milk is the essential commodity for healthy development of our children. But it is in short supply and out of reach of large section of Indian citizenary and the result is that we have an under nourished childhood and are consiquently producing weak and unhealthy citizen. That is not good for the nation as a whole.
>                     

As far as milk is concerned , it is livestock enterprise in which small farmers can successfully engage in order to improve their livlihood. Regular milk supplies allow them to move from subsistence to a market based income.
>               

Milk production is estimated to have declined marginally to 134.5 million tonnes in the last year though expected to be 140.6 million tonnes in the current year. Total Indian milk consumption is set to match with its production this year while domestic consumption is pegged at 425000 tonnes.
>                           

Cow dung or manure as fertilizer is very good for cultivation. when composed it has nutrient rich elements. It is also used as fuel which is environment friendly. The government should encourage masses to use cow dung as fuel as far as they can because it will save the gas for future and is economicall viable.
>                        

In general meat eating and particularly beef eating is not part of our culture and is treated as taboo. It hurts religious feelings of largest religious group in India. In some cases this beef and meat has become tool of communal disharmony and flare up. Every nation needs peace and social harmony for its development and that is not possible till we balance our needs with the feelings of other social and religious groups.
>                       

Hence meat export should be contained at minimum level. The better will be to completely ban the meat particularly beef export. By that our children will get better quality milk and the farmers will have rich dung fertilizer at no extra cost which will economically boost the farming in the country and will enhance agriculture income.
>                          

Some people and lobbies take shelter under misguided plea that exports are essential for growth of country. That is right but if impartially calculated one will find that the loss from stopping meat export will be less than the increase in the export of milk and milk products. This is a crucial year in which our milk production will be just near to domestic demands.This is the year in which we have to take a positive decision in the interest of future of our children, communal harmony and national income growth and completely ban meat especially beef export.
>                                 

If the present central government has political will and courage , it should take the revolutionary decision and jump out of the net spread by some individuals and foreign countries in favour of meat export and ban it. the history will not only record the gains socially as well as economically of Modi government but will also realise dream of largest religious section of Indian masses.

* Jasim Mohammad is Director, Muslim Chamber of Commerce & Industry, Aligarh . He can be reached at jasimoffice@gmail.com


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