CBI has been placed outside the ambit of Right to Information Act by an order of the Union Government under section 24. This is a very unfortunate step. Incidentally bonafide protection in the field of Investigation already exists under section 8 (h) of the said Act that provides ".(May kindly refer to the concerned section)...there shall be no obligation to give any citizen information which would impede the process of investigation or apprehension or prosecution of offenders..." That applies not only to CBI or other central investigating agencies, but also to similar agencies of all the state governments as well. Ostensibly the move is designed from security and intelligence angles. It must be made clear in no uncertain terms that the CBI is neither an intelligence nor a security organisation. It is an investigative agency assigned legally the job of exposing rather than concealing. By the very nature of its work the CBI has to be an open organisation notwithstanding the sensitive cases that it may be dealing with. The sensitivity in context of CBI is when it deals with cases against high and mighty "...in the investigations of which one was expected to conceal more and expose less...".It is this requirement on ground as against the legal or operational requirement of the CBI that such secrecy is needed. Functionally as against an intelligence organisation that requires total protection from transparency, the investigation requires complete transparency after a certain stage. It is only the premature disclosure of information, during the investigation, that will give undue advantage to the accused who may cover his tracks, destroy the evidence and scuttle the investigation. But once the charge sheet has been filed there is no requirement for any further protection. Incidentally all the evidence to be relied upon is communicated to the accused person so that he may prepare his defence. Once it is filed in the court of law, the chargesheet becomes a public document. Some of the information collected during investigations and contained in the case diaries of the agencies may not be shown in the charge sheet as that may be related to the security of the witness or of the accused and therefore not advisable to be brought in the public domain. Such information and documents on which the prosecution does not rely, are already protected under the Criminal Procedure Code and the Evidence Act. However, to meet with ends of justice and to ensure that nothing is held back, the court trying the case has a right to look into all these documents and to use them as per its discretion.The prevalent laws are adequate. Further secrecy, particularly for the CBI in Corruption cases is designed only to protect the people in high places. As such there is no necessity for any further privilege for any investigating agency in the country under the Right to Information Act. As a former CBI officer having fought the corrupt system from inside the government I concluded that the CBI under the control of the government has to conceal more than to reveal against its lawful role of collection of facts truthfully and impartially without any fear or favour.The exemption given to the CBI is an extremely retrograde step; it is going backwards and is completely undesirable and redundant. This will only encourage criminality and corruption in the government and may not leave even the CBI itself untouched as more you keep things under wraps, the more liable the process is likely to be misused by all possible. This will only create another class of privileged people who would be beyond the operation of laws. Coming to the experience of other countries, such kind of protection has never been given to any agency in those countries that can boast of the Rule of Law or upholding of Human Rights. The question arises whether we are going back to the uncivilized days? Are we going to negate the rule of law that our constitution enshrines?However, in India, such steps by the governments to protect the high and mighty have been a common affair. |I am tempted two cite two instances. First, the single directive that was issued in eighties to protect against any enquiry or investigations the officers and politicians beyond the rank of Joint Secretary. The same was quashed by the Supreme Court as discriminatory and illegal in the famous Jain Hawala case (also referred to as Vineet Narain case) in December 1997 .Lo and behold in 1998 itself it was placed back on statue through the ordinance route and later enacted into the CVC Act in 2003. The other instance is that investigation abroad was to be conducted against a very highly placed accused. That required the Letter Rogatory from the Indian Court to the court of the country where the investigations were intended to be conducted. Under section 166 Criminal Procedure Code any officer in charge of a police station can apply for such a letter. In 1993 a VVIP was to be protected, sothe government modified the procedures by an executive order that CBI should apply to the court for the LR, only after obtaining permission from the government, thereby the possibilities of investigation abroad against any influential person were virtually closed, as it could deny and did deny such permission indefinitely. Requests were made to government in this case for issue of LR in May 1993, but the Government of India did not permit till December 1996, the time I left the CBI.So there could be no investigations abroad, though the VVIP was accused of receiving kickbacks, keeping huge balances in banks abroad and acquiring a number of firms, in India and abroad. So much so, that power to apply for letter rogatory, vested in the SHO under the Code of Criminal Procedure, was withdrawn from the CBI and concentrated in Government of India and that too in the PMO (as was informally learnt), leaving nothing to chance. Though the papers were pending with Union Government for years, but still this fact could not be made public by the CBI, as that would amount to censure of the Government, which the CBI under the control of the government itself could not afford.
Saturday, June 25, 2011
Re: [HumJanenge] What clinched the Govt's decision to exempt CBI under Sec 24 ?
Re: [HumJanenge] 12k indian hold 3rd of wealth
Dear Sir,
This is the result of operations by our world famous Economist-Trio. Economic Development has taken GDP of Bhaarat beyond 50 crore lakh rupees With 120 crore population, this could make each of the citizen worth Rs 40,000/- per year. In fact more than 60 percent are below survival level of even Rs18000/-. With 12000 people (mere 1 percent of one thousandth of the population) owning 17 crore Lakh rupees what else can happen. Large quantity of GDP with politicians & bureaucrats with so many scams. How can common people be comfortable & happy? Too unequal growth. Can Bhaarat survive with such uneven growth?
Stop following West. Follow Bhaarateey culture.
With regards to all,
------Mukund Apte
Very interesting information - Do hope Income Tax Deparatment has good hold on them and are collecting proper tax properly.Can somebody throw some light on - what is the situation in other countries - both devoloped and devoloping - and where India stands? It should not be difficult as some agency may have done research and published the data.A comparison will show whether India is Good or Bad.From: ramans shriman <msb931@yahoo.com>
To: stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com; desiyatra@googlegroups.com; humjanenge@googlegroups.com; i <hum-our-tum@yahoogroups.com>; Arya Samaj Online <aryasamajonline@yahoogroups.com>; vhp.newzealand@gmail.com; vhpmedia2@gmail.com
Cc: Bjp Itcell <bjp.karnataka.itcell.facebook@gmail.com>; Shiv Sena <mazamaharashtra@shivsena.org>; karishma_ray@yahoo.com; trhalemane@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2011 1:40 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] 12k indian hold 3rd of wealth
--
With regards to all,
------Mukund Apte
[HumJanenge] Assembly website, and information in the House
A whole lot of crucial information surfaces from the Goa Assembly very
regularly, but very little of this reflects in the website of the Goa
Assembly. For instance, the text of questions are often included in
the website, but not the replies.
In the past, annexures to questions were sometimes laid on the table
of the House, on the logic that the annexures were bulky and couldn't
be distributed widely. Given the fact that so much taxpayer money has
been spent in the name of e-governance (and also that webspace is
cheap today), there is no excuse for not sharing this information now.
When I approached the Goa Legislature Secretariat under the Right to
Information, they said that the website is currently undergoing a
security audit by NIC Delhi (in any case, there is no element of
secrecy or confidentiality about Assembly answers!) and said that the
concerned government departments "don't provide the information in
soft copy". They have also promised that the data will be uploaded
once the audit is completed.
In view of the importance of this information to the public debate in
the State, kindly consider writing about this issue. The reply of the
RTI query is enclosed. FN
FN +91-832-2409490 or +91-9822122436 (after 2pm)
#784 Nr Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India
http://fn.goa-india.org http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Re: [HumJanenge] Re: The People's fight against the pliable Attorney General - Ghulam Vahanvati
Do you know about the top corruption of India?
" No body can be punished in india for any crime under any
Law as per Apex court of India in a Contempt Petition No. 203 of 1996,
till this Judgment is alive . Do any crime but get the whole contents
of the matter from the Apex Court. Or President of india or Deptt. Of
justice or Secretary Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha of India."
Thanks with regards.
Yours Faithfully
Raj Kishore Vaish
118, Choubey Tola ,
Sitapur, U.P.
9807952137
On 6/25/11, KN VENUGOPAL <gandhigiri2007@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> this is NOT a reply to your mail.
>
> this is something different but on the same theme.
>
> we have read MAHABHARATHA.
>
> the whole epic is about human nature and if you read the book the chapter 4.
> ITS HISTORY AND CHARACTER by PROF. PL VAIDYA and Dr. AD PUSALKAR. you will
> come to know more ABOUT Mahabharats- I am not talking about its content.
>
> let us come to its CONTENT.
>
> Here we have a DHRITHARASHTRA. who was blind in more sensenes than
> physical. and you have a GANDHARI who was his advisor.
>
> over the years in the history of India , and more accurately in the post
> Independence period
> you can see parallels.
>
> in the Indian government run by many personalities you can see a
> DHRITHARASHTRA , who is honest but is sarrounded by DURYODHANA, perpetrating
> financial irregularities , DUSHASANA- perverting laws,
> DURBUDHI, intellecutual dishonesty, DURLABHA etc
>
> there are many many DUR--- . IN AND AROUND the circle of government
>
> what do you see in the durbar. -dont be confined to the government , all
> condoning these acts of DUR---.. . of people like VIBHISHANA who look ON AND
> ON WITH SELF COMPELLED HELPLESSNESS and a self procalimed sense of LOYALTY
> to the KING.
> in all their service to the KING they are WELL LOOKED AFTER.
>
> Well that is food for thought.- atleast I THOUGHT.
>
> GANDHIGIRI
>
> --- On Thu, 23/6/11, sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
> Subject: [HumJanenge] Re: The People's fight against the pliable Attorney
> General - Ghulam Vahanvati
> To: "HumJanenge Forum People's Right to Information, RTI Act 2005"
> <HumJanenge@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, 23 June, 2011, 7:50 AM
>
>
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/AG-okayed-CBI-exemption-from-RTI-purview/articleshow/8958872.cms
>
> "AG okayed CBI exemption from RTI purview
> TNN | Jun 23, 2011, 07.06am IST
>
> HYDERABAD: The Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) was exempted from
> the purview of the Right to Information (RTI) Act on the sole
> recommendation of attorney general Goolam Vahanvati.
>
> The RTI exemption for the CBI announced by the central government on
> June 9 was in contradiction with suggestions made by the law ministry
> and also department of personnel and training (DoPT), the nodal agency
> for RTI implementation.
>
> This was unearthed by a Hyderabad-based RTI activist, C J Karira, on
> Wednesday after he went through the files at the DoPT office in North
> Block, New Delhi. Karira was allowed to inspect the documents after he
> filed an RTI application seeking permission for the same. His
> contention was that "transparent functioning" of CBI was crucial given
> that it was probing the country's biggest scams.
>
> The activist took 50 minutes to go through the documents and was also
> allowed to make copies of pages that he felt were important. Karira
> found documents revealing DoPT's denial to give CBI exemption from RTI
> on the grounds that it did not deal either with 'intelligence' or
> 'security' issues — the only two conditions that can make a government
> department RTI-proof.
>
> "The response of the law ministry carried the suggestion that while
> the agency could be exempted from RTI, it should be answerable to
> queries on matters of administration, personnel, budget, etc," said
> Karira, quoting from the files he scanned on Wednesday.
>
> However, the only document at DoPT that strongly recommended CBI's
> exemption from RTI was an 11-page report by attorney general
> Vahanvati, a copy of which was taken by the activist and is in
> possession of TOI. According to the AG's report, intelligence agencies
> are RTI proof because the information they gather is crucial to the
> nation's security.
>
> The report states: "While the main purpose of intelligence gathering
> and assessment is the prevention and occurrence of activities which
> could endanger the security of the country, it cannot be restricted
> only to gathering of intelligence prior to the happening of an event,
> but should extend to post-event intelligence gathered, which falls
> under investigation." It was soon after receiving this report that the
> government granted CBI the RTI ACT exemption.
>
> CBI, too, used Section 24 of the RTI Act for the exemption, which
> states that "nothing contained in the act shall apply to the
> intelligence and security organizations established by the central
> government"."
>
> On Jun 22, 11:26 pm, sroy 1947 <sroy1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> To:
>> 1) HumJanenge/GoogleGroups
>> 2) RTI_India
>> 3) RTIINDIA.ORG
>> 4) RTIACT2005/GoogleGroups
>>
>> Dear Group / Forum Members
>>
>> All of us are stakeholders in the RTI process, either as clients or
>> servers.
>>
>> Today I ("stoy1947") and Mr C.J.Karira ("rtiwanted") inspected the files
>> at
>> DoPT pertaining to exemption of CBI and 2 other Intelligence Agencies from
>> RTI Act. What we read SHOCKED us. We have already placed the AG's legal
>> opinion in public domain in public interest.
>>
>> 1) Contrary to the belief that it was the "babus" of DoPT who wanted the
>> CBI
>> out of the RTI net, we found that the Babudom has consistently opposed
>> this
>> demand to the extent of recording that the CBI could not strictly be
>> considered to be either an "intelligence" or "security" organisation
>> established by Central Govt to fall within section 24. This was endorsed
>> by
>> the opinion of the Ld. Solictor General Mr Gopal Subramaniam on this point
>> (and others).
>>
>> 2) Till as late as 2 months ago, the CBI itself did not seriously press
>> for
>> exemption under the RTI Act. So the question is what changed ? Could it be
>> a
>> string of recent legally bankrupt decisions against CBI by India's first
>> "private sector" Information Commissioner, who is also considered in
>> certain
>> circles to be a fixer par excellence. Is it a coincidence that almost all
>> these cases have a very strong Mumbai connection with the information
>> sought
>> concerning corruption worth thousands of crores of rupees or involves a
>> usual group of NGO RTI activists this IC was in bed with earlier.
>>
>> 3) Is it a coincidence that the Ld AG (who is also from Mumbai) overturned
>> the deeply reasoned opinion of the nations next most senior (and highly
>> respected) Law Officer and gave a patently political, expedient and
>> legally
>> bizarre opinion to somehow get the CBI out of the RTI net till such time
>> as
>> these NGO 'haraamis" can get the CBI amalgamated into the Lokpal
>> apparatus.
>>
>> 4) On behalf of the members of this group, I feel we must say that ENOUGH
>> IS ENOUGH. It is now time for a CITIZENS WAR against lackeys like Mr
>> Vahanvati. I say that we should fight such toadies on their own home turf
>> (the Supreme Court) so that he can explain the GLARING INCONISTENCIES and
>> the INCONVENIENT FACTS ON FILE WHICH HE EVADED OR GLOSSED OVER IN HIS
>> BLINKERED AND SELF-SERVING OPINION..
>>
>> 5) It is bizarre that a primarily CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE agency like the
>> CBI
>> which inquires AFTER THE FACT can be equated with organistions like the
>> RAW
>> or the IB or the NatGrid which gather and analyse INTELLIGENCE BEFORE THE
>> FACT.
>>
>> 6) The moderators of the above mentioned groups / forum have decided to
>> seek
>> the views of our members - RUNNING INTO ALMOST 3 LAKH REGISTERED
>> STAKEHOLDERS on wheter THIS kind of corruption must we tolerated. We don't
>> want your mere moral support,, We need your sweat, toil, tears etc. We
>> need
>> active participants in this WAR against HIGH-LEVEL bootlickers and
>> collaborators.
>>
>> SO please email me OFFLIST at "sroy1...@gmail.com". We really want to know
>> what you think and if you are prepared to help us.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>
--
RKishore Vaish
( Raj Kishore Vaish )
118,Choubey Tola,
SITAPUR, U.P.
09807952137
Re: [HumJanenge] CBI EXEMPTION
I was very happy to learn that it is intended to file a petition in
the SC regarding exemption given to CBI in the RTI Act.
An important point that must be included is that the RTI Act is also
used for obtaining information from CBI that has nothing to do with
investigation. This may concern administrative matters, corruption in
the CBI itself, malpractices being followed and so on. As you may be
aware, I am being prosecuted by the CBI for writing and publishing a
book that brings out corruption in RAW. I have filed several RTI
applications and with the CBI, followed by appeals in the CIC, some
connected with the case and some totally unconnected.
I had submitted an application dated 15/06/2009 seeking certain
information regarding monetary awards, gallantry awards and out of
turn promotion given to CBI personnel during the period 2001 to 2008.
(A similar application with the Special Cell of Delhi Police brought
out very interesting results). The CBI HQ transferred the applications
to various offices around the country. Most of them replied, giving
the information asked for. I have still not been able to go through
all the replies – they run into thousands of pages and weigh 40-50
Kgs. From whatever I have seen, it is clear that the CBI has evolved
an ingenious system to increase the salary of its staff. Almost
everyone gets a monetary reward, every month, even for mundane tasks
like driving a car, carrying files, cleaning the office etc. In other
words, everyone effectively gets the salary of one rank higher. A head
constable earns as much as a sub inspector, while a sub inspector gets
what an inspector earns.
A story on this was done by Saikat Datta in Outlook Magazine on 21
September 2009. I understand that after this, the process of awards
was tightened. Once the CBI is exempted, the CBI will resume the
practice, wasting the tax payer's money. This type of information will
also not be available to the public. This is an important point that
must be included in the petition
Regards
Maj Gen VK Singh (Retd)
G-31, Palam Vihar
Gurgaon 122017
Tele: 9873494521
--
http://www.nishanjustice.org/
http://community.webshots.com/user/Nishan_Justice
http://call100.blogspot.com/
"Highest office in a democracy is not that of the President or Prime Minister but Patriotic Citizen"-Team Nishan
-----------------------
NISHAN Campaigning HQs.
Plot No.571(1st Floor), Sector-2,Urban Estate, Kurukshetra-136131(Haryana),India. Tel. - +91 1744 232013,TeleFax- +91 1744 232570,(M) +91 9466283343
--------------------------------
NISHAN Liaison office Haryana: S.C.O.86(Top Floor), Sector-17, Kurukshetra-136118,(M) + 91 9466283343
Re: [HumJanenge] What clinched the Govt's decision to exempt CBI under Sec 24 ?
From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] What clinched the Govt's decision to exempt CBI under Sec 24 ?
I request for down-loading a copy of gazettee notification exempting CBI, NIA and NIG from the purview of RTI. I searched the same on CBI and DoPT website but could not find. Request Mr. C J Karaira, Sarbajit Roy and others for favour. This will remove doubts about the date of its effectness and status of cases pending before the CIC. . |
Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Please note, I am not taking sides! A good general never reveals his plans. So..... ..... dont you think, we do need an OSA or something stronger, to prevent folks with vested interests leaking out sensitive information to the enemy nations? Ever heard of the "The Falcon and the Snowman"? Manoj --- On Sat, 6/25/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
|
Re: [HumJanenge] 12k indian hold 3rd of wealth
From: ramans shriman <msb931@yahoo.com>
To: stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com; desiyatra@googlegroups.com; humjanenge@googlegroups.com; i <hum-our-tum@yahoogroups.com>; Arya Samaj Online <aryasamajonline@yahoogroups.com>; vhp.newzealand@gmail.com; vhpmedia2@gmail.com
Cc: Bjp Itcell <bjp.karnataka.itcell.facebook@gmail.com>; Shiv Sena <mazamaharashtra@shivsena.org>; karishma_ray@yahoo.com; trhalemane@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2011 1:40 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] 12k indian hold 3rd of wealth
Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Yes ofcourse. I want the same for India.
Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarbajit Roy
Sent: 25/06/2011 9:51:52 am
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Dear Mr Anand
Before posting such emails, did you appreciate that the said article refers
to NIGERIA !!!
Sarbajit
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Anand acf <acfanand@gmail.com> wrote:
> House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
>
> For the many years the famous Freedom of Information Bill (now Right of
> Information) remained unapproved by the National Assembly, the 1962 Secrets
> Act, and its several amendments, stood as the citadel upon which arguments
> against the passage of the ...
>
> http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5721006-147/story.csp
>
> --
> Anand S.
> Coordinator, Anti Corruption Forum
> Bangalore 560 085.
> Cell No. +91-92410-12730
>
Friday, June 24, 2011
Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
The OSA in India will not be amended, as long as babus have their way.
The Second Administrative Reforms Commission chaired by Shri Veerapppa
Moily, the present Law Minister, submitted its report titled 'Right to
Information – Master key to good governance' to the Prime Minister in
June 2006. The report recommended that the Official Secrets Act, 1923
should be repealed or amended, to bring it in line with the Right to
Information Act, 2005.
In 2008 I filed RTI applications with the Ministry of Law and the
MHA, asking for the action taken by the Government on the Report of
the ARC. The DOPT, to whom the application was transferred by the Min
of Law, informed me that this recommendation has been rejected by the
Inter Ministerial Group (IMG) set up in the MHA. When I brought this
to the notice of Shri Moily, he had assured me that he would pursue
the matter with the Prime Minister.
Meanwhile, the MHA said that the information could not be given since
the meetings of the IMG were attended by officers from agencies under
the RTI Act. I filed a complaint with the CIC, who asked the MHA to
show him the files dealing with the case. On 25/1/2010 the CIC issued
an order directing the MHA to give me a copy of the file noting on a
particular page of the MHA file. He also directed the MHA to provide
the titles and designations of the officers sitting in the IMG.
The MHA sent a reply on 11/2/2010. They gave the ranks of officers
from the MHA, CBI, Delhi Police, Min of Law etc. They also mentioned
that a "Jt Secretary level officer from an organization exempted under
Section 24 of the RTI Act' was a member of the IMG. They did not give
the titles ie appointments of the officers or a copy of the file
noting, stating that they had sought some clarifications from the CIC.
The important point to note concerns the composition of the IMG. It
has representatives from the Police, CBI, Intelligence Agencies, Law
Ministry etc, but not from the Armed Forces. The genesis of the OSA
was the need to prevent spying and wrongful communication of military
secrets. The importance of military secrets is highlighted by the
provisions of Section 3 of the OSA, which prescribe a punishment of 14
years imprisonment for disclosure of military secrets, but only 3
years for all others. It appears odd that the military has been kept
out of the deliberations of the IMG.
I have written to the Home Minister as well as the Law Minister on
2/3/2010 pointing out this anomaly.
I have received a letetr from Shri Moily dated 21/4/2010 ,
acknowledhing my letter. That is all. The MHA has still not responded
to the CIC's orders. It is clear that it is the bureaucrats in the MHA
and the intelligence agencies who call the shots. Shri Moily had
promised several judicial reforms when he took over as Law Minister.
But he came up against the wall of babus when he wanted to amend the
OSA.
Regards
Maj Gen VK Singh
PS. For those who want an insight into the OSA, please read my article
THE OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT 1923 – A TROUBLED LEGACY, published in the
USI Journal. It is attached.
On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Anand
>
> Before posting such emails, did you appreciate that the said article refers
> to NIGERIA !!!
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Anand acf <acfanand@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
>>
>> For the many years the famous Freedom of Information Bill (now Right of
>> Information) remained unapproved by the National Assembly, the 1962
>> Secrets
>> Act, and its several amendments, stood as the citadel upon which arguments
>> against the passage of the ...
>>
>> http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5721006-147/story.csp
>>
>> --
>> Anand S.
>> Coordinator, Anti Corruption Forum
>> Bangalore 560 085.
>> Cell No. +91-92410-12730
>
>
Re: [HumJanenge] What clinched the Govt's decision to exempt CBI under Sec 24 ?
24/6/11
RAW and IB are agencies for national security not CBI but the PMO does not want to give up its hold tospy on the opponents.This is one of the main contetion under the proposed Lokpal Bill. For the present CIC seems to be the only remedy'JKGaur
Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will never ask for
----- Original Message -----From: MAYUR PATILSent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:46 AMSubject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will never ask fori have some questions to all of you.are you guys planning to do anything than just to send mail? are you guys planning to meet and discuss personally? are you guys have any agenda and plan to be carry out something against these bastards?
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr Jain
If this is a "war" how many armed cadres do you have with you ?
What is the level of their training, supply lines and preparedness?
Do your cadres eat monkeys, beef, pork, or worms, or do they expect to get vegetarian home-cooked meals served to them in the field ? How many enemies have your cadres eliminated so far in this war against corruption ? and so on ...
I understand from media that your Baba is now trying to organise 11,000 person as bodyguards (presumably armed with Sanskrit slokas and guru mantras which will make them invincible against bullets and lathis). I direct your own recollection of History to the "Boxer rebellion" of China and what happened to such foolish people who came under the influence of unscrupulous monks .
As far as I am concerned, the only war for Independence India has ever fought was won by the ideology of my grandfather's grandfather who is the acknowledged force / guru (many history books bear this out) of Lal-Pal-Bal trio and the motivated "terrorist" cadres he trained for them.
Sarbajit
(just a humble servant of God)
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Dr. NC JAIN <j_nc@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear sir
I donot agree with you. You might recall an incident in history when Pandits of India stated that Mohmad Gajnavi will not do anything to the Somnath temple because, they have saved the temple with their Mantras& Slokas. Everyone knows the result. Today, it is Kalyoug,where things have to be snatched and not given. You have to fight for your right , no one is going to donate it. In theses circumstances, it is appropriate to fuel the fire for the second war of independence started by Jaiprakash Narain.The war is to make Indians free.
Dr N C Jain
13-6-11
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 01:30:10 +0530
Subject: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will never ask for
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Baba, SrSri, Anna, Swami-A, Swami-S, GuruV, GuruM ....
3 small POSITIVE steps (followed in many progressive countries) is all it takes to generate the momentum to reduce corruption to the point where it will cease to affect the ordinary citizens (ie those who pay bribes for daily services, school admissions, building sanctions etc), reduce inflation, and put the fear of God into dishonest public servants.
Why have all these Babas and Swamis not agitated for these POSITIVE steps while instead only demanding NEGATIVE laws which will turn India into a POLICE STATE controlled by fascist forces ?
.
Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.
I am possibly sharing my opinion for the first time on this forum,
yet have been orienting myself on the pushes and pulls under way
between the different, but concerned and passionate individuals. For
their sharing and more, I am grateful. But now say my bit...
Sudhakaran ji has inspired and motivated me to say my brief piece.
Corruption is only a part of the erosion of character we exhibit as a
people and a nation. Something more basic is lacking and is NOT
restricted only to the politician -- though they by and large, are
possibly, some of the worst in "making a buck" under any
circumstances.
Our character has eroded to a point where generally, we assume by
saying "Sorry Sir and please..." we have done our bit and resume
activities and life and repeat the same kind of act, the next day or
week and end with "Sorry" and carry on. That is how bad it has become.
I suspect 8 or 9 out of 10 are that way today among us Indians.
The younger ones, learn from the older ones, and thus the erosion that
I refer to is seen as "being clever and smart and get by" smoothly and
glibly....
A premier seems to demonstrate as if he is running a gurdwara not a
Govt of over a Billion people!
He must learn from Sridharan ji of the Delhi Metro of what decision
making and leadership is and how it is demonstrated. You cann ot be a
Premier and not supervise how the Foreign Minister managing things and
events...and the same applies to the rest of his Ministry or the
PMO...!
Matters and events have gone beyond the politicians; most of us tend
to indulge in 'a sleight of hand' to what have you. That is called
clever and smart.
The gentle and the honest one is called a "buddhu" and a "soft one"
and will not go far in life -- in a job, or with a woman or moving up
in one's career.
Good character and honesty of purpose gets appreciated -- I do not
deny that and it does get rewarded. BUT our corrupted character and
"being clever" has left us as a highly "chalak" and a corrupt nation,
among whom possibly the politicians are the worst element since they
run the roost and get away -- by buying the votes, suppressing the
havaldar or Inspector, getting the Supervisor or a headmaster or a
Director by getting other pressures under way and thus the higher
echelons are made to bend.
See how in another context, professionals and those who matter tend to
"kow tow" when a Rahul Gandhi passes by -- which is NOT his fault --
yet he does not mind 'making a buck' of a different kind so that
possibly he eventually gets to warm the seat of the Premier, one day,
even though he is not guilty of ever wanting to own it now or in the
next general elections.
That is how our democracy gets defined by the best and the worst among
us-- as a nation-- that is how we are "corrupted". Which Lokpal will
arise to repair these major flaws in our national character?
Corruption should not merely be seen in relation to the ducats but
beyond in how loyal and sincere we are in what a Gandhi or a Vinobha
stood for.
One Baba lies in hospital room leaving the world after 4 months of
fasting because the Ganga is NOT getting cleaned while the other Baba
in the next room after 9 days is welcomed and put on every TV channel
seen breaking the fast and then declaring that he needs to pay his
taxes having made a buck that runs in hundreds of crores over the past
few years!!
You know what I am comparing and suggesting how we as a community and
a nation have eroded -- what our ideals were and what our Constitution
and what our Dharam stands for.
Our corruption today is of a kind we are running, at all our different
levels a nautanki of sorts (as Digvijai says in another, biased way)
unconcerned with the kind of standards we are laying down for those
who follow us in the family or in a neighbourhood or the Panchayat or
the local body and beyond in public work in the Legislatures and the
Houses of Parliament.
And the President cannot decide who must get hung or go inside for
life -- everything remains in an unending queue of sorts... to what
end? Who will get to do his/her job within a month, a year or 2-3
years or never...and not be accountable.
IT IS THAT BAD.
Thank you for listening.
Peace and regards
dev chopra -- soon will be 77
living in gurgaon -- where MNCs and high rises get made
but sewage and sanitation gets to be some one else's concern
not the HUDA or the MCG nor the DTCP... to what have you.
***
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> First of all Prosecuting Sonia is not going to solve the corruption problem
> for ever?
>
> please note theat Anna Hazare had fasted in 1997 and ousted two corruption
> accused ministers in Maharastra Government. But did corruption reduced abit
> in Maharastra/ ... or has it grown further to Aadharsh flatrs heights?
> And I had asked Anna in JUly 1997:
> 'Are the new replacements for the ousted ministers clean personalities?
> Anna replied: No; They are also corrupt.
> Me: Are other Ministers in Maharastra and other states and centre
> incorruptible clean persons?
> Anna: No. all politicians are corrupt.
> Me: So what benefit your hungerstrike and the ouster of those ministers
> brought to the nation, the society or the cmmon man in terms of corruption?
> .... I repeat this same question here?
> What difference prosecution of Sonia would bring to the nation on the
> corruption front/
>
> Such proposals are partisan and reactive.
> Try to be objective, and non partisan>
> If not we would reach nowhere in our reform efforts.
>
> Sudhakaran
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Devasahayam MG
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.
> See Link
> http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2011/06/seeking-pms-permission-to-prosecute-ms.html
>
> MGD
> ______________________________________________________________________________________-----
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr. Sarbjit and Mr. Anand..
>>
>> I do not know if you have noticed that I have been insisting on this
>> factor: that corruption is just a symptom of the basic flaw of our political
>> system.... the flaw that cause the abject 'Character crisis' in our
>> political leadership with the prevalence of the corrupt caucuses/dynasties
>> and their lackeys in political leadership.
>> And that fighting corruption directly, sans its flaw, is akin to fighting
>> the shadow mistaking it as the real target.
>>
>> RTI (proposed Lok Pal and the old CVC also) surely would have been a very
>> strong tool in a vibrant society with a fairly virtuous and competent
>> political leadership.
>> But with the present type of the political leadership (the wrong type of
>> Raja) the Praja and all other institutions would emulate them and the
>> corruption would continue to grow irrespective of new laws or institutions
>> created against it.
>>
>> Great India trust (www.greatindiatrust),
>> and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia/ are dedicated to debate and
>> propagate this ideal.
>>
>> Cannot you consider to participating and contributing in that group?
>>
>> Sudhakaran
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sarbajit Roy
>> To: humjanenge
>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:25 PM
>> Subject: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.
>> Dear Shri Anand
>>
>> I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain
>> specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past /
>> present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement
>> of "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular
>> membership.
>>
>> Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The
>> middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily
>> IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially
>> and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the
>> politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens
>> who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid
>> losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower
>> classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.
>>
>> In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is a
>> a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black.
>> The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in
>> all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the
>> media and by foolish people who should know better - can never cure the
>> problem which affects Mother India. It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it
>> is too late. If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you
>> dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...) to be given a medicine which
>> MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR
>> will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR
>> call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????
>>
>> Respectfully
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,
>> >Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know
>> > who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one
>> > of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.
>> >
>> >My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With
>> > my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption'
>> > needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists
>> > at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in
>> > our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which
>> > people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue.
>> > Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through
>> > under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property,
>> > when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when
>> > we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state
>> > our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae
>> > cases.
>> >
>> >Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the
>> > personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to
>> > ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to
>> > speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and
>> > have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a
>> > self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.
>> >
>> >YP Anand
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: [HumJanenge] CBI EXEMPTION
I agree with you. No PIL in a hurry and the same should be filed after thorow home work so that is is not defeated in the scrutiny of the court of law. Sometime, opposite party manage filing a hoax and weak case to shut the door of the lower judiciary or High Court. The vacation time should be gainfully used in drafting an strong petition. --- On Sat, 25/6/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
|
RE: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarbajit Roy
Sent: 25/06/2011 9:51:52 am
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Dear Mr Anand
Before posting such emails, did you appreciate that the said article refers
to NIGERIA !!!
Sarbajit
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Anand acf <acfanand@gmail.com> wrote:
> House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
>
> For the many years the famous Freedom of Information Bill (now Right of
> Information) remained unapproved by the National Assembly, the 1962 Secrets
> Act, and its several amendments, stood as the citadel upon which arguments
> against the passage of the ...
>
> http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5721006-147/story.csp
>
> --
> Anand S.
> Coordinator, Anti Corruption Forum
> Bangalore 560 085.
> Cell No. +91-92410-12730
>
Re: [HumJanenge] House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
Before posting such emails, did you appreciate that the said article refers to NIGERIA !!!
Sarbajit
House considers repealing Official Secrets Act
For the many years the famous Freedom of Information Bill (now Right of
Information) remained unapproved by the National Assembly, the 1962 Secrets
Act, and its several amendments, stood as the citadel upon which arguments
against the passage of the ...
http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5721006-147/story.csp
--
Anand S.
Coordinator, Anti Corruption Forum
Bangalore 560 085.
Cell No. +91-92410-12730
Re: [HumJanenge] CBI EXEMPTION
Unfortunately the Delhi HC and SC are on vacations. In the meantime some people have filed a PIL in the Madras HC and notice has been issued to UOI. From media reports it seems to be a political PIL. We can expect many more of these to be filed by the usual dubious people, proxies, NGOs and publicity seekers.
OTH, when we go to SC at leisure pace, it will be a properly researched and drafted Writ with the inputs of the affected stakeholders, and the advantage of understanding the Court's mind in other cases..
Sarbajit
I was very happy to learn that it is intended to file a petition in
the SC regarding exemption given to CBI in the RTI Act.
An important point that must be included is that the RTI Act is also
used for obtaining information from CBI that has nothing to do with
investigation. This may concern administrative matters, corruption in
the CBI itself, malpractices being followed and so on. As you may be
aware, I am being prosecuted by the CBI for writing and publishing a
book that brings out corruption in RAW. I have filed several RTI
applications and with the CBI, followed by appeals in the CIC, some
connected with the case and some totally unconnected.
I had submitted an application dated 15/06/2009 seeking certain
information regarding monetary awards, gallantry awards and out of
turn promotion given to CBI personnel during the period 2001 to 2008.
(A similar application with the Special Cell of Delhi Police brought
out very interesting results). The CBI HQ transferred the applications
to various offices around the country. Most of them replied, giving
the information asked for. I have still not been able to go through
all the replies – they run into thousands of pages and weigh 40-50
Kgs. From whatever I have seen, it is clear that the CBI has evolved
an ingenious system to increase the salary of its staff. Almost
everyone gets a monetary reward, every month, even for mundane tasks
like driving a car, carrying files, cleaning the office etc. In other
words, everyone effectively gets the salary of one rank higher. A head
constable earns as much as a sub inspector, while a sub inspector gets
what an inspector earns.
A story on this was done by Saikat Datta in Outlook Magazine on 21
September 2009. I understand that after this, the process of awards
was tightened. Once the CBI is exempted, the CBI will resume the
practice, wasting the tax payer's money. This type of information will
also not be available to the public. This is an important point that
must be included in the petition
Regards
Maj Gen VK Singh (Retd)
G-31, Palam Vihar
Gurgaon 122017
Tele: 9873494521
Re: [HumJanenge] Re: The People's fight against the pliable Attorney General - Ghulam Vahanvati
this is NOT a reply to your mail. this is something different but on the same theme. we have read MAHABHARATHA. the whole epic is about human nature and if you read the book the chapter 4. ITS HISTORY AND CHARACTER by PROF. PL VAIDYA and Dr. AD PUSALKAR. you will come to know more ABOUT Mahabharats- I am not talking about its content. let us come to its CONTENT. Here we have a DHRITHARASHTRA. who was blind in more sensenes than physical. and you have a GANDHARI who was his advisor. over the years in the history of India , and more accurately in the post Independence period you can see parallels. in the Indian government run by many personalities you can see a DHRITHARASHTRA , who is honest but is sarrounded by DURYODHANA, perpetrating financial irregularities , DUSHASANA- perverting laws, DURBUDHI, intellecutual dishonesty, DURLABHA etc there are many many DUR--- . IN AND AROUND the circle of government what do you see in the durbar. -dont be confined to the government , all condoning these acts of DUR---.. . of people like VIBHISHANA who look ON AND ON WITH SELF COMPELLED HELPLESSNESS and a self procalimed sense of LOYALTY to the KING. in all their service to the KING they are WELL LOOKED AFTER. Well that is food for thought.- atleast I THOUGHT. GANDHIGIRI --- On Thu, 23/6/11, sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
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[HumJanenge] HC issues notice to Centre on RTI exemption for CBI
Chennai: The controversial decision to exempt the CBI from the purview of the
RTI Act has come under legal challenge in the Madras high court, which issued a
notice on Friday to the Union government on a PIL in this regard.
A bench of Chief Justice M Y Eqbal and Justice T S Sivagnanam directed
Additional Solicitor General M Ravindran, who took the notice on behalf of the
Union Government, to get instructions from it within three weeks on the PIL
seeking to declare the recent notification as ultra vires of the Constitution.
Petitioner S Vijayalakshmi, an RTI activist, challenged the Centre's June 9
notification exempting the CBI from the Central Act 22 of 2005 (RTI). However,
the court declined to grant a stay on the notification as sought by the
petitioner and posted the matter for further hearing after three weeks.
The notification has come in for widespread condemnation from some civil
society representatives. The country's first Chief Information Commissioner
Wajahat Habibullah has also criticized it. PTI
[HumJanenge] Re: Fwd: [scw] A united front against corruption is crucial to win the battle
IT HAS TO BE ONLY ONE POINT PROGRAM THAT ONE POINT IS TO ASK NEHRUVIAN CONGRESS AND ITS ALLIES TO QUIT INDIA IF IT DOES NOT SACK THEM OUT DISCUSSION ON ANY OTHER POINT WOULD BE ONLY TO CREATE CONTROVERSY TO DIVIDE PEOPLE ON PRIORITY BESIDES THIS WITH NEHRUVIAN CONGRESS IN POWER, YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING --- On Fri, 24/6/11, ramans shriman <msb931@yahoo.com> wrote:
|