Hum Janenge: 2/20/11

Saturday, February 26, 2011

Re: [rti4empowerment] A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

Dear Sarbajit Roy ji,

Sir,

In fact, I was expecting such reaction from you when I was writing this. We have lodged strong protest against the proposed changes under the banner of Dwarka Forum (Regd) with 2500 on-line members. If you want, I can forward that to the group Some are unable to digest the name of Aruna Roy and others and they are more concerned to settle score with them than to serve the cause of public and protect the RTI Act from the onslaught. But u r on record on this blog to support these changes vide your previous mail. If u fail to find them, I offer my help in the task.

Every member knows who is wasting their time. By the way, what is your stand about the proposed changes viz. word limit, one subject and abetment of case after the death or killing of applicant?

Members are not babies to be satisfied with lollypops and understand the scenario. I myself cannot ensure that my voice is heard but your or nobody else can snatch my right to raise my voice. Even you have not been able to ensure that your voice is heard therefore, writing frequently on Ms Aruna Roy and other prominent activists and lended your support to Shri S. D. Sharma, who wanted to know her religion (though he has more knowledge on the subject than other members) and thinks that he is rendering a great service to the cause of RTI by doing so.

Pl. inform your perception of "Good News" on this. I have just shared a news and never said that it is good but only titled it "A ray of hope on RTI effectiveness". If other members think that my headline is wrong, I can withdraw the same and can make an apology otherwise will expect you to regret (not apologize) for your unwarranted and hostile comments on me for maintaining an amicable environment on this blog.

Let the members decide that the information shared by me was worth sharing or not.

Regards,

(Can not say your collegue as u have already declared that I m not yr co…..).

M. K. Gupta

Jt. Secy and media advisor to Dwarka Forum and a Free Lance Journalist.

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 9:44:25 AM
Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

Dear Guptaji

This is NOT good news. This is the pre-planned lollilops they had planned all along to keep the little babies who cry all the time quiet. Please do not waste time of group members publicising such non-events. Instead, please post a copy of the comments YOU had submitted to DoPT on Draft RTI Rules. What are YOU doing to ensure that your voice is heard ? Do YOU agree that only Aruna Roy can negotiate on behalf of citizens with DoPT?

Sarbajit

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:39 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

(Extract from Times of India, 27.2.2011)

Sonias NAC prevails over govt on RTI, forest rights

Seeks Staggered Food Act Rollout

Subodh Ghildiyal & Himanshi Dhawan | TNN

New Delhi: The Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) has won decisive victories in keeping at bay the governments attempt to regulate the Right to Information and ensuring that the pro-tribal Forest Rights Act (FRA) is made more effective for its intended beneficiaries.

It disagreed with the government and insisted that procuring 65 million tonnes of foodgrain for a full rollout of the programme was not a difficult task.The Council,seen as a policy interface with civil society,is an influential body providing policy and legislative inputs,headed as it is by the Congress president.

Prevailing on RTI and forest rights are major achievements while guaranteeing 35kg of foodgrain a month to families below the poverty line and sections of the urban poor is a key Sonia scheme,too.

The differences had fed into a perception of divergence between the Congress and the government.

On RTI, the government ceded ground on its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating inquiry end on applicants death.

NAC forces govt to lift word limit on RTI applications

New Delhi: On RTI, the government ceded ground to Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) in its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating an inquiry would end if the applicant died.

Now,it will say an application should preferably not exceed 500 words.It has also agreed that a query will not cease on an applicants death.The government is still insisting that an RTI application should be focused on one subject.But NAC has decided not to give up.Sonia Gandhi told council members on Friday that this should be pursued with the government.

Department of Personnel and Training had earlier opposed NACs suggestions.Information activists who saw the proposed amendments as a bid to dilute the powerful act can rejoice after a protracted three-month battle.The 250-word cap and the single-subject rule are in particular seen to be limiting clauses.Abatement of an appeal in case of an applicants death has also seen activists arguing that this provision could be misused to kill people asking uncomfortable questions as has been reported in some cases recently.

****

Re: [rti4empowerment] A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

Sarbajit,

Not Again, you generally would like to be in discussion by blame game by using names of known prominent citizens (i know you will again disagree) but I appreciate your commitment of negative marketing system of making genuine public spirited persons names known to others -:).

Thanks and i remain

Yours in service of RTI

Bhaskar

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Guptaji

This is NOT good news. This is the pre-planned lollilops they had planned all along to keep the little babies who cry all the time quiet. Please do not waste time of group members publicising such non-events. Instead, please post a copy of the comments YOU had submitted to DoPT on Draft RTI Rules. What are YOU doing to ensure that your voice is heard ? Do YOU agree that only Aruna Roy can negotiate on behalf of citizens with DoPT?

Sarbajit

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:39 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

(Extract from Times of India, 27.2.2011)

Sonias NAC prevails over govt on RTI, forest rights

Seeks Staggered Food Act Rollout

Subodh Ghildiyal & Himanshi Dhawan | TNN

New Delhi: The Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) has won decisive victories in keeping at bay the governments attempt to regulate the Right to Information and ensuring that the pro-tribal Forest Rights Act (FRA) is made more effective for its intended beneficiaries.

It disagreed with the government and insisted that procuring 65 million tonnes of foodgrain for a full rollout of the programme was not a difficult task.The Council,seen as a policy interface with civil society,is an influential body providing policy and legislative inputs,headed as it is by the Congress president.

Prevailing on RTI and forest rights are major achievements while guaranteeing 35kg of foodgrain a month to families below the poverty line and sections of the urban poor is a key Sonia scheme,too.

The differences had fed into a perception of divergence between the Congress and the government.

On RTI, the government ceded ground on its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating inquiry end on applicants death.

NAC forces govt to lift word limit on RTI applications

New Delhi: On RTI, the government ceded ground to Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) in its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating an inquiry would end if the applicant died.

Now,it will say an application should preferably not exceed 500 words.It has also agreed that a query will not cease on an applicants death.The government is still insisting that an RTI application should be focused on one subject.But NAC has decided not to give up.Sonia Gandhi told council members on Friday that this should be pursued with the government.

Department of Personnel and Training had earlier opposed NACs suggestions.Information activists who saw the proposed amendments as a bid to dilute the powerful act can rejoice after a protracted three-month battle.The 250-word cap and the single-subject rule are in particular seen to be limiting clauses.Abatement of an appeal in case of an applicants death has also seen activists arguing that this provision could be misused to kill people asking uncomfortable questions as has been reported in some cases recently.

****

Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Dear M.K.Gupta, I think the content of Video Conferrencing is not information as cited by Mr . Anand. In one of my Video Conferrencing (vc) at Bangalore with CIC, I enquired if the proceedings of the VC are stored in the form of data. For which they clarified that they can't store such data. However, they told us that prior to the commencement of the VC, if the request is made to record such proceedings, this can be considered with the approval of CIC and Cheif of NIC Center.

regards.

umapathi.s

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:11 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

What about hearing in person? any clue, dear Anand.

Thanks for this information, next time, I shall opt for video conference but in Video Conference, one problem, how to make written submissions of about 2-3 pages. In Video Conference, it these may take 5-16 minutes and which long conference may not be allowed or may not continue in the network.

M K Gupta

From: "acfanand@gmail.com" <acfanand@gmail.com>
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 12:14:48 AM
Subject: RE: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As hearring is done jhrough video conference. The data becomes infformation

Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: M.K. Gupta
Sent: 26/02/2011 7:51:00 pm
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Dear Roy,

I want to know we can legally audio record the proceedings of the case at
Information Commissions, without causing any disturbance to the proceedings.
This is in the wake of many complaint of the applicants that their submissions
have not been considered and have not been included in the decision or the order
is not an speaking one.

Shall be thankful if you can share this information for members, if you know
about this too otherewise I will have to file an RTI with CIC and DoPT for
taking a clarification. I add that such hearing are held in open court and thus
these are not confidential.
If any other member is aware about this, please share.

________________________________
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 12:05:57 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata
Banerjee

As per my submission to the DoPT, the right of personal
hearing does not extend to being fobbed off with audio/
video conferences where the evidentiary process cannot
be given effect to.

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Add video conference to the list.
>
> Manoj
>
> --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and
>> allow them to
>> engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure
>> rules that
>> PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we
>> have a poll on
>> this ?
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [rti4empowerment] A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

Dear Guptaji

This is NOT good news. This is the pre-planned lollilops they had planned all along to keep the little babies who cry all the time quiet. Please do not waste time of group members publicising such non-events. Instead, please post a copy of the comments YOU had submitted to DoPT on Draft RTI Rules. What are YOU doing to ensure that your voice is heard ? Do YOU agree that only Aruna Roy can negotiate on behalf of citizens with DoPT?

Sarbajit

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:39 AM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

(Extract from Times of India, 27.2.2011)

Sonias NAC prevails over govt on RTI, forest rights

Seeks Staggered Food Act Rollout

Subodh Ghildiyal & Himanshi Dhawan | TNN

New Delhi: The Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) has won decisive victories in keeping at bay the governments attempt to regulate the Right to Information and ensuring that the pro-tribal Forest Rights Act (FRA) is made more effective for its intended beneficiaries.

It disagreed with the government and insisted that procuring 65 million tonnes of foodgrain for a full rollout of the programme was not a difficult task.The Council,seen as a policy interface with civil society,is an influential body providing policy and legislative inputs,headed as it is by the Congress president.

Prevailing on RTI and forest rights are major achievements while guaranteeing 35kg of foodgrain a month to families below the poverty line and sections of the urban poor is a key Sonia scheme,too.

The differences had fed into a perception of divergence between the Congress and the government.

On RTI, the government ceded ground on its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating inquiry end on applicants death.

NAC forces govt to lift word limit on RTI applications

New Delhi: On RTI, the government ceded ground to Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) in its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating an inquiry would end if the applicant died.

Now,it will say an application should preferably not exceed 500 words.It has also agreed that a query will not cease on an applicants death.The government is still insisting that an RTI application should be focused on one subject.But NAC has decided not to give up.Sonia Gandhi told council members on Friday that this should be pursued with the government.

Department of Personnel and Training had earlier opposed NACs suggestions.Information activists who saw the proposed amendments as a bid to dilute the powerful act can rejoice after a protracted three-month battle.The 250-word cap and the single-subject rule are in particular seen to be limiting clauses.Abatement of an appeal in case of an applicants death has also seen activists arguing that this provision could be misused to kill people asking uncomfortable questions as has been reported in some cases recently.

****

[rti4empowerment] A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

A RAY OF HOPE ON RTI EFFECTIVENESS

(Extract from Times of India, 27.2.2011)

Sonias NAC prevails over govt on RTI, forest rights

Seeks Staggered Food Act Rollout

Subodh Ghildiyal & Himanshi Dhawan | TNN

New Delhi: The Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) has won decisive victories in keeping at bay the governments attempt to regulate the Right to Information and ensuring that the pro-tribal Forest Rights Act (FRA) is made more effective for its intended beneficiaries.

It disagreed with the government and insisted that procuring 65 million tonnes of foodgrain for a full rollout of the programme was not a difficult task.The Council,seen as a policy interface with civil society,is an influential body providing policy and legislative inputs,headed as it is by the Congress president.

Prevailing on RTI and forest rights are major achievements while guaranteeing 35kg of foodgrain a month to families below the poverty line and sections of the urban poor is a key Sonia scheme,too.

The differences had fed into a perception of divergence between the Congress and the government.

On RTI, the government ceded ground on its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating inquiry end on applicants death.

NAC forces govt to lift word limit on RTI applications

New Delhi: On RTI, the government ceded ground to Sonia Gandhi-led National Advisory Council (NAC) in its bid to restrict an application to 250 words and a clause stating an inquiry would end if the applicant died.

Now,it will say an application should preferably not exceed 500 words.It has also agreed that a query will not cease on an applicants death.The government is still insisting that an RTI application should be focused on one subject.But NAC has decided not to give up.Sonia Gandhi told council members on Friday that this should be pursued with the government.

Department of Personnel and Training had earlier opposed NACs suggestions.Information activists who saw the proposed amendments as a bid to dilute the powerful act can rejoice after a protracted three-month battle.The 250-word cap and the single-subject rule are in particular seen to be limiting clauses.Abatement of an appeal in case of an applicants death has also seen activists arguing that this provision could be misused to kill people asking uncomfortable questions as has been reported in some cases recently.

****

Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

What about hearing in person? any clue, dear Anand.

Thanks for this information, next time, I shall opt for video conference but in Video Conference, one problem, how to make written submissions of about 2-3 pages. In Video Conference, it these may take 5-16 minutes and which long conference may not be allowed or may not continue in the network.

M K Gupta

From: "acfanand@gmail.com" <acfanand@gmail.com>
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 27 February, 2011 12:14:48 AM
Subject: RE: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As hearring is done jhrough video conference. The data becomes infformation

Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: M.K. Gupta
Sent: 26/02/2011 7:51:00 pm
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Dear Roy,

I want to know we can legally audio record the proceedings of the case at
Information Commissions, without causing any disturbance to the proceedings.
This is in the wake of many complaint of the applicants that their submissions
have not been considered and have not been included in the decision or the order
is not an speaking one.

Shall be thankful if you can share this information for members, if you know
about this too otherewise I will have to file an RTI with CIC and DoPT for
taking a clarification. I add that such hearing are held in open court and thus
these are not confidential.
If any other member is aware about this, please share.

________________________________
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 12:05:57 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata
Banerjee

As per my submission to the DoPT, the right of personal
hearing does not extend to being fobbed off with audio/
video conferences where the evidentiary process cannot
be given effect to.

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Add video conference to the list.
>
> Manoj
>
> --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and
>> allow them to
>> engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure
>> rules that
>> PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we
>> have a poll on
>> this ?
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>
>
>
>

RE: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As hearring is done jhrough video conference. The data becomes infformation

Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: M.K. Gupta
Sent: 26/02/2011 7:51:00 pm
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Dear Roy,

I want to know we can legally audio record the proceedings of the case at
Information Commissions, without causing any disturbance to the proceedings.
This is in the wake of many complaint of the applicants that their submissions
have not been considered and have not been included in the decision or the order
is not an speaking one.

Shall be thankful if you can share this information for members, if you know
about this too otherewise I will have to file an RTI with CIC and DoPT for
taking a clarification. I add that such hearing are held in open court and thus
these are not confidential.
If any other member is aware about this, please share.

________________________________
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 12:05:57 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata
Banerjee

As per my submission to the DoPT, the right of personal
hearing does not extend to being fobbed off with audio/
video conferences where the evidentiary process cannot
be given effect to.

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Add video conference to the list.
>
> Manoj
>
> --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and
>> allow them to
>> engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure
>> rules that
>> PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we
>> have a poll on
>> this ?
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: Re: [HumJanenge] Write up on Maoist abduction of the Collector, Malakangiri, Orissa

On 22 march, 2011 anindya will organise a dharna for getting information under RTI. This is the first time happening in kolkata . All RTI activists of the state and the Kolkata city are requested to join the programme.The dharna is about giving information regarding appointment of primary teachers.

[rti4empowerment] Fw: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

A correction.

Pl. read seven in place of sevel in first line, fourth word. Regret, typing error.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 7:54:38 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As per Act, sevel clear days notice is must for PIO and Appellant / Complainant and if that has not been given, the order of IC can be challenged on this ground. However, if the notice has been delayed or has not been served due to the lapse of postal department, that will not be a valid excuse for the PIO or Appellant.

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 12:27:49 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

The PIOs of India are quite fedup with Mr Satyananda Mishra.CCIC and
Ms. Mamata Banerjee

Previously they used to get at least 7 days notice before CIC appeal
hearings. This gave them enough time to buy an air-ticket and buy a
Tatkal rail ticket after 5 days, The air-ticket (always booked online
with e-ticket) could be cancelled and they could pocket the
difference.

Nowadays, SN Mishra's inefficient CIC gives them only 3 days notice to
attend hearings,
Tatkal has been reduced to 2 days before journey (risk of no ticket is
very high) and
PIOs have actually started flying in to attend hearings (and they are
complaining very
bitterly about this in the CIC visitors room). I daresay that there
are some aspects of the mechanics of this fraud that I haven't
understood as yet.

I think it is high time that honest tax-paying citizens demand that
the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and allow them to
engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure rules that
PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we have a poll on
this ?

Sarbajit

Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Dear Roy,

I want to know we can legally audio record the proceedings of the case at Information Commissions, without causing any disturbance to the proceedings. This is in the wake of many complaint of the applicants that their submissions have not been considered and have not been included in the decision or the order is not an speaking one.

Shall be thankful if you can share this information for members, if you know about this too otherewise I will have to file an RTI with CIC and DoPT for taking a clarification. I add that such hearing are held in open court and thus these are not confidential.

If any other member is aware about this, please share.

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 12:05:57 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As per my submission to the DoPT, the right of personal
hearing does not extend to being fobbed off with audio/
video conferences where the evidentiary process cannot
be given effect to.

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Manoj Pai <manojpai@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Add video conference to the list.
>
> Manoj
>
> --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and
>> allow them to
>> engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure
>> rules that
>> PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we
>> have a poll on
>> this ?
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Dear Sarbajit Roy,

Let me first ask from you the reason of your keenness that RTI applicants must give reason for seeking information.

From: Dwarakanath <dwarakanathdm@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Cc: Rina Mahindra <rina17@gmail.com>; sudhakar hegde <sudhakarhegde733@gmail.com>; Dhyan - <dhyan40@hotmail.com>; yogi5050@gmail.com; surisureshsuri23 <surisureshsuri23@yahoo.com>; samkrupadass <samkrupadass@yahoo.co.in>; gladsraghu@gmail.com; lalita_c <lalita_c@indiatimes.com>
Sent: Sat, 26 February, 2011 5:16:56 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Friends, From what I can understand ( I am subject to correction) the provision of Art 225 refers to pre-constitutional-. But does the amendment apply to post-constitutional maaters.??? Regards, dwarakanathdm, nbca, bangalore

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir

Art 225 actually clarifies that the pre-Constitutional powers of the
EXISTING High Courts (incl. their powers to frame their rules) are
henceforth (26 Jan 1950) subject to the Constitution and any laws made
under the Constitution (which includes RTI Act).

You are correct Sir that the rules I referred to concern enforcement
of Fundamental Rights which now includes the Right to Information. My
point was that if a High Court can lawfully restrict citizens from
filing Writs by demanding all kinds of personal information and
reasons for filing writs, then by analogy the State can do so too when
it comes to giving effect to a particular right AT THE APPELLATE STAGE
(since the application stage faces a legal bar in the RTI Act)

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Justice Kamleshwar Nath <justicekn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Sarbajit,
>
> Thanks. Rules of the Bombay High Court seem to concern Petitions filed in
> the High Court under Writ Jurisdiction for enforcement of Fundamental
> Rights. High Court's power to frame Rules for its own business are contained
> in Article 225 of the Constitution. That has nothing to do with RTI Act.
>
> It is correct that I retired long ago (1988) and there may be laws or their
> interpretation of which I may not be aware. That is why I wished to have
> latest information from you.
>
> Thanking you again and with regards,
>
> KN

Re: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Friends, From what I can understand ( I am subject to correction) the provision of Art 225 refers to pre-constitutional-. But does the amendment apply to post-constitutional maaters.??? Regards, dwarakanathdm, nbca, bangalore

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir

Art 225 actually clarifies that the pre-Constitutional powers of the
EXISTING High Courts (incl. their powers to frame their rules) are
henceforth (26 Jan 1950) subject to the Constitution and any laws made
under the Constitution (which includes RTI Act).

You are correct Sir that the rules I referred to concern enforcement
of Fundamental Rights which now includes the Right to Information. My
point was that if a High Court can lawfully restrict citizens from
filing Writs by demanding all kinds of personal information and
reasons for filing writs, then by analogy the State can do so too when
it comes to giving effect to a particular right AT THE APPELLATE STAGE
(since the application stage faces a legal bar in the RTI Act)

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Justice Kamleshwar Nath <justicekn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Sarbajit,
>
> Thanks. Rules of the Bombay High Court seem to concern Petitions filed in
> the High Court under Writ Jurisdiction for enforcement of Fundamental
> Rights. High Court's power to frame Rules for its own business are contained
> in Article 225 of the Constitution. That has nothing to do with RTI Act.
>
> It is correct that I retired long ago (1988) and there may be laws or their
> interpretation of which I may not be aware. That is why I wished to have
> latest information from you.
>
> Thanking you again and with regards,
>
> KN

Re: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Sir

Art 225 actually clarifies that the pre-Constitutional powers of the
EXISTING High Courts (incl. their powers to frame their rules) are
henceforth (26 Jan 1950) subject to the Constitution and any laws made
under the Constitution (which includes RTI Act).

You are correct Sir that the rules I referred to concern enforcement
of Fundamental Rights which now includes the Right to Information. My
point was that if a High Court can lawfully restrict citizens from
filing Writs by demanding all kinds of personal information and
reasons for filing writs, then by analogy the State can do so too when
it comes to giving effect to a particular right AT THE APPELLATE STAGE
(since the application stage faces a legal bar in the RTI Act)

Sarbajit

On 2/25/11, Justice Kamleshwar Nath <justicekn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Sarbajit,
>
> Thanks. Rules of the Bombay High Court seem to concern Petitions filed in
> the High Court under Writ Jurisdiction for enforcement of Fundamental
> Rights. High Court's power to frame Rules for its own business are contained
> in Article 225 of the Constitution. That has nothing to do with RTI Act.
>
> It is correct that I retired long ago (1988) and there may be laws or their
> interpretation of which I may not be aware. That is why I wished to have
> latest information from you.
>
> Thanking you again and with regards,
>
> KN

Friday, February 25, 2011

RE: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Dear Sri Sarbajit,

Thanks. Rules of the Bombay High Court seem to concern Petitions filed in the High Court under Writ Jurisdiction for enforcement of Fundamental Rights. High Court’s power to frame Rules for its own business are contained in Article 225 of the Constitution. That has nothing to do with RTI Act.

It is correct that I retired long ago (1988) and there may be laws or their interpretation of which I may not be aware. That is why I wished to have latest information from you.

Thanking you again and with regards,

From the Desk of :

Justice Kamleshwar Nath

Retd.

Up-Lokayukta ( Karnataka ),

Vice Chairman – C.A.T ( Allahabad ),

Judge – High Court ( Lucknow & Allahabad )

Address

`Gunjan', C - 105, Niralanagar, Lucknow : 226 020. Uttar Pradesh, India

Phone(s)

+91-522-2789033 & +91-522-4016459. Mobile : +91-9415010746

From: humjanenge@googlegroups.com [mailto:humjanenge@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:47 AM
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Centre must add purpose clause to RTI Act

Sir

I was commenting on behalf of public spirited citizens who use RTI for the greater good.

Probably the Constitution of India has changed or its interpretation/caselaw by the High Courts since your tenure.
I commend to your notice recent High Court Rules regulating petitions for citizens to enforce their Fundamental Rights through the Courts such as those for Bombay High Court framed in 2010

extracts

"5. In the petition to be filed under Clause (e) of Rule 4, the petitioner shall disclose :-

(a) petitioner's name, complete postal and E-mail address, phone number, proof regarding personal identification, occupation and annual income, PAN number and National Unique Identity Card, if any and registration under the Act."
:
(d) the nature and extent of the personal interest, if any, of the petitioner(s).
(e) details regarding any civil, criminal or revenue litigation, involving the petitioner or any of the petitioners,
:
7(a) annexe to the petition an affidavit stating that there is no personal gain, private motive or oblique reason in filing...

(b) file an affidavit undertaking to pay costs as ordered by the Court, if it is ultimately held that the petition is frivolous or has been filed for extraneous considerations or that it lacks bona fides.?

Most High Courts have similar rules nowadays

warmly
Sarbajit Roy

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Justice Kamleshwar Nath <justicekn@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sri Sarbajit Roy,

Your mail mentions that ‘there are specific Constitutional provisions requiring reasons for seeking info to be mandated and which over-ride 6(2) of the RTI Act’. I shall be grateful if you could communicate those Constitutional provisions to me. On the contrary my understanding is that right to information is a Fundamental Right for which no reason need be given and which cannot be abrogated by enactment.

Regards,

Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

As per my submission to the DoPT, the right of personal
hearing does not extend to being fobbed off with audio/
video conferences where the evidentiary process cannot
be given effect to.

Sarbajit

Re: [HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

Add video conference to the list.

Manoj

--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

> the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and
> allow them to
> engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure
> rules that
> PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we
> have a poll on
> this ?
>
> Sarbajit
>

[HumJanenge] Jet-setting PIOs are unhappy with CIC & Mamata Banerjee

The PIOs of India are quite fedup with Mr Satyananda Mishra.CCIC and
Ms. Mamata Banerjee

Previously they used to get at least 7 days notice before CIC appeal
hearings. This gave them enough time to buy an air-ticket and buy a
Tatkal rail ticket after 5 days, The air-ticket (always booked online
with e-ticket) could be cancelled and they could pocket the
difference.

Nowadays, SN Mishra's inefficient CIC gives them only 3 days notice to
attend hearings,
Tatkal has been reduced to 2 days before journey (risk of no ticket is
very high) and
PIOs have actually started flying in to attend hearings (and they are
complaining very
bitterly about this in the CIC visitors room). I daresay that there
are some aspects of the mechanics of this fraud that I haven't
understood as yet.

I think it is high time that honest tax-paying citizens demand that
the DoPT should either exempt PIOs from attending (and allow them to
engage advocates), or prescribe as part of appeal procedure rules that
PIOs must travel by 2nd class (ordinary) only. Shall we have a poll on
this ?

Sarbajit

[HumJanenge] RTI COUNCIL OF U.P. AWARENESS PROGRAMME

RTI COUNCIL OF U.P. HOLDS AWARENESS PROGRAMME

Today, 25th Feb-2011, Dr.Niraj Kumar (Margdarshak) of RTI Council of U.P. gave a brief details of RTI Act to the students of Lucknow University, Department of Social Work, The session lasted for more than 4 Hours.

Students showed their overwhelming interest and were much curious to know "How we can involve ourselves in this mission." Dr. Niraj gave a detailed brief to the students about the "Use of RTI Act in Social Work". and also "through this Act how they can make a Corruption Free Society". This Awareness programme was organised as its first programme by RTI Council of U.P. in coordination with Dr. Roopesh Kumar Assistant Professor of Department of Social Work, Lucknow University who given a Sound Support in Conduct a Awareness of RTI Act to the Students of MSW and Diploma in Criminology.The students offered their unconditional full support to conduct various RTI awareness studies which the RTI COUNCIL OF U.P. is going to conduct very shortly all over U.P. This will be a Pilot Project of the Council.

Dr. NIRAJ KUMAR
C-4/8, RIVER BANK COLONY
LUCKNOW - 226018
INDIA
Mob.: +91+9415787095

Thursday, February 24, 2011

[HumJanenge] CIC Letters up, on website

At last the CIC has started uploading important letters. To begin with a letter from C-CIC to the Dy, Chairman Planning Commission is available at the link given below

http://cic.gov.in/IMP-Letters/Letter-To-DyChairman-on-PPP.pdf

Hope they also start uploading their letters to the DoP&T as well, especially the ones concerning amendments to the RTI Act etc.

Best wishes

Manoj Pai

[HumJanenge] Re: [HumJanenge GN Draft RTI rules: No mechanism to track public feedback

Dear Lokesh

I can inform you that DoPT has informed me that comments such as yours
would not be diarised or considered for the reason that you had already put
in your comments via the NAC route. The same applies to the detailed
objections put in by NGOs like CHRI which have also been discarded.

What Governance Now is publishing is old hat. I had specifically objected
to DoPT that no objections/comments from members of the public (other
than mine) can be legally considered by them. I am glad to see that they
are following my comments very carefully in your case.

BTW, have you got a copy of all the comments received. Were mine
among them ?

Sarbajit

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 6:15 PM, lokesh batra <batra_lokesh@yahoo.com> wrote:

http://www.governancenow.com/gov-next/rti/draft-rti-rules-no-mechanism-track-public-feedback

Draft RTI rules: No mechanism to track public feedback
Draft RTI rules were made public on December 10 last year

GN Bureau | February 23 2011

The department of personnel and training (DoPT) has once again proved that the governments policy to consult citizens on drafting laws is a sham.The department has no mechanism to maintain the comments it received from citizens on the draft right to information (RTI) rules. Due to administrative reasons the communication under reference was not diarised and it was placed in folder,was the departments reply to commodore (rtd) L K Batra who wanted to know if DoPT considered his feedback on the said rules.Batra had emailed his feedback.
By not maintaining records of communication received, DoPT is not only flouting the office procedure of record maintenance but also violating section 4(1) (a)of the RTI Act. This section says that the public authority should maintain all its records duly catalogued and indexed, said he.The applicant had also sought the procedure devised by the government to process the comments received in response to the DoPTs official memorandum of 10 Dec last.No specific procedure/policy has been laid down for processing the comments to the said OM, said the RTI reply.

On December 10 last, DoPT had put the drat RTI rules onm its website. It had invited public feedback on the same.The government has rejected the feedback of the national advisory council (NAC) on the mentioned rules.

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[HumJanenge] Police barbarism has no end in Orissa

Police barbarism has no end in Orissa

Dear friends,

All of us are quite aware that maiost influence is rising day and day across the state. Often officials and police informer are being murdered by Maoists. The state also witnessed a number of causalities due to Maoist violence like death of innocent tribals, destruction of Govt. road and buildings and police stations etc. To curb maoist challenge, the State Govt. has sought both financial and para-military support from Central Govt. . The State Govt. has also appointed SOG jawans in naxal-influenced areas to counter maoist attacks. In these areas, the police stations have been well-equipped with arms and ammunitions, modern devices and a good number of paramilitary personnel to counter naxal attacks. The district administration is also conducting Jana Sampark Abhijan with a view to restore faith of the common people in administration and sensitizing the people about Govt.run development programmes and anti-poverty schemes etc. Despite these measures, naxal violence has not been checked in our state. Naxals also got massive support from the common people mostly the tribal communities. Naxals are seen as demi-gods or messiahs before the people.

Why it happens so?. As we see to-day, the police has the same colonial tendency to suppress the common people, torture them, misbehave, manhandle and above all charge them with false cases. Once upon a time, Justice Mulla had said that the Police is the organized hooligans in the hands of the Govt. The police has the history of misusing power and misbehaving and manhandling not only the common people but also the civil society members in the name of protecting law and order. The cases of police barbarism and atrocity have been heavily criticized by the mass media, human rights groups and also the civil society organisations in the country. The police highhandedness has created a sense of hatred and ill-will among the common people against the police system. Anti-police mindset of the people is quite visible in the state, as the people extend their support to the naxals or remain silent when the naxals attack and even burn a police station. Keeping in view the mindset of the common people, the police administration is taking various measures to win over the confidence of the people. The police has been given ample power to counter maoist movement in the state.

On other hand, it has also been reported that there is widespread complaint that in the name of curbing Maoism, the police arrests the innocent people and social activists and put them in jail. The police has been using the excuse of containing Maoism as a tool to take action against the people who protest against the corrupt practices of the system. Though the higher authorities of the police administration speak of reform of the police set-up, the reform does not reach at all to the lower level. Rather, by using the very force which has been given to the police to counter Maoists, the police has been playing the game of terrorizing the common people. If some one raises his voice against their highhandedness and corrupt practices he is threatened with dire consequences. As it has been noticed the police continue to harbour the old colonial mindset to dictate to the people as per its whims and fancies and take action against them if anybody ever registers a protest.

Let me share an event that I experienced while visiting Thakurmunda Police Station in Mayurbhanj, a tribal majority district fully covered under the Scheduled Areas in Orissa. I was there in the capacity of a resource person for a training programme on RTI Act.

On 14.2.2011, a group of local people visited Thakurmunda Police Station to seek some information, which are supposed to have been proactively disclosed and kept ready for public inspection with effect from the 12^th October 2005 as mandated under Section 4 of Right to Information Act 2005. They went straight to meet Mr. Bhagawan Jena, OIC and appraised him about the purpose of their visit i.e., to get some suo motu information under Section 4 of the RTI Act. The OIC suddenly got irritated and shouted at them saying that no information was available in his office and asked them to get out. They returned back from there in silence and empty handed.

When they were on the way back, a police jeep carrying SOG Jawans reached at them and asked them to visit the police station again. The said jeep carried them to the police station and the Jawans put the them before the OIC, who immediately started hurling abusive words at them. When they enquired to know about the reason of his misbehavior, Mr. Jena suddenly became furious and scolded them in an aggressive manner saying "bloody nonsense, you are bloody Maoists, I will teach you a lesson" and the like. Then he used these very words like "sala besi dekhei hauchha, netagiri dekhauchha". For one hour at a stretch he continued his unruly and abusive gestures and utterances against them. They were not allowed even to open their mouth to speak a word. They also could not understand why he dealt with them so savagely.

When the OIC was at the peak of his infuriated rage against the group of RTI users I along with two social activists reached the Police Station. When I was about to sit on a vacant chair lysing in front of the OIC Mr. Jena, the latter started abusing me with vulgar language. His words were "You are a bloody nonsense; Who are you to sit here? Is it proper to sit before a police officer without permission? What is your academic qualification? How dare you to sit before me like this? When I started explaining him about the purpose of the visit and asked him to know about the arrangements made in the Police Station to provide the information under RTI Act, the OIC who was at the peak of his irritation at that moment retorted, 'Why shall we provide the information? It is SP office, which should provide the information? Who are you to ask for information? And so on and so forth. The OIC also meted out similar kind of unruly misbehavour to other fellow activist friends Jyotiram Dash and Brahmanand Swain using abusive words and scolding them. The OIC also called the SOG Jawans to heckle Jyotiram Dash, but Mr.Dash vehemently protested against it. Still one of the SOG Jawans physically assaulted Jyotiram. After scolding and threatening the RTI activists for abut an hour to his fill, Mr.Jena the OIC asked us to leave the Police Station.

This is one of a series of cases where the police not only misbehaved but manhandled the common people and even conscious citizens in the state. Such attitude and behavior discourage the people from supporting the police. As I understand, unless the police changes its attitude and behavior towards the people, fighting the naxal challenge with armed forces but without the support of common people and civil society will end up in big zero.

Regards

Pradip Pradhan

M-99378-43482

Date- 24.2.2010

Wednesday, February 23, 2011

Re: [rti4empowerment] IMPORTANT GROUP MESSAGE

ReMOVE ME FROM THIS GROUP

Harish Mehra (h_mehra@yahoo.com) wrote*:
>
>Dear
>
>please remove my email id from this group.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Shalini Singh <shalini.singh@timesgroup.com>
>To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 2:26:28 AM
>Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] IMPORTANT GROUP MESSAGE
>
>PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THIS LIST
>
>nilesh suchdev (nilesh.suchdev@gmail.com) wrote*:
>>
>>adding mail IDs to any list without the explicit affirmation of the user
>>amounts to spamming, and is against net etiquette. while india does not have
>>strong anti-spamming laws, i am strictly against the idea... more comments
>>are invited...
>>
>>On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to those of you who have sent your lists.
>>> As some PIOs have complained about disclosure
>>> of their official (and tiny) email IDs for this purpose, as
>>> responsible citizens we shall concentrate on
>>> the media email IDs first. So keep those email
>>> IDs coming to, and thanks alot
>>>
>>> sroy1947@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 3:07 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Friends
>>>>
>>>> This group "rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com" is an important
>>>> component of the RTI-UNITY initiative. Posts to this group are not
>>>> limited only to those directly relating to RTI. This group is the
>>>> primary forum for individual grievances with public interest which
>>>> deserve publicity.
>>>>
>>>> Accordingly, we request our members to kindly send us by email lists
>>>> of authentic AND working email IDs in their know of all journalists,
>>>> media, and PIOs , FAA etc. This is in the common interest so as to
>>>> ensure wide publicity for grievances. These emails IDs will be used
>>>> appropriately to get the message across
>>>>
>>>> Your email ID lists can be mailed to me OFFLIST at "sroy1947 AT gmail
>>>> DOT com". Please put subject as "EMAIL LIST"
>>>>
>>>> Sarbajit
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>On Budget Day make the right trade calls and investment decisions as the biggest
>market and corporate voices discuss the impact of the Budget. Watch ET NOW
>through the day on Feb 28
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On Budget Day make the right trade calls and investment decisions as the biggest market and corporate voices discuss the impact of the Budget. Watch ET NOW through the day on Feb 28
----------------------- 
DISCLAIMER: The information in this e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete the message and any attachments and notify the sender of misdelivery. Any use or disclosure of the contents of either is unauthorised and may be unlawful. All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them, with requisite authority, to be those of the specific TIMES GROUP company.