Re: Reply: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment

Dear Weds
This is good that you have sent important features of Indian
constitution, for which I am thankful
It is not bad to discuss religion and philosophy,
But I felt few members may feel odds.
In my temple, I have a photo of Lord Christ, Lord Krishna, Lord
Buddha thanks as well as Muslim saint. So I never hate any religion.
I also never discard atheist. From my action I also can be called an
atheist because I don't visit temples, being a Hindu.
About the dilution of RTI, you will soon come to know.
Kindly keep it up as your conscious allows you.
Regards
Dr JN Sharma

On 12/13/10, DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear Dr.Sharma,
>
> You are right. I ahve not lost track of RTI. However, it is my tendency to
> express myself dorthright & fearlessly on any subject with conviction. I am
> not
> a bigot. If someone convinces me that I am wrong, I shall not stand by
> ceremony to change myself.
>
> Well, not Moily Sahab, Mr.Moily The Union Law Minister for From President
> to
> the lowest errand runner in any panchayat all are public servants.
>
> What information you have about dilution of RTI? Convey it to all .Let us
> put
> our brains together to counter it.
>
> Meanwhile, please read this.
>
> Preface of The Constitution of India declares that:-
> Constitution is a living document, an instrument which makes the government
> system work.
> The Constitution of India,in its Preamble, states, "WE, THE PEOPLE
> OF
> INDIA, having solemnlyresolved to constitute India into a
> 1[SOVEREIGNSOCIALIST
> SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC] andto secure to all its citizens:
> JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
> LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
> EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all
> FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the 2[unity and
> integrity
> of the Nation];
> IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twentysixth day of November, 1949, do
> HEREBY
> ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.
> From this you would agree that the People of India have installed the
> Constitution of India & the Government therewithin to themselves & to govern
> them. Hence, in Democracy, the Government is defined as A GOVERNMENT BY A
> PEOPLE; OF THE PEOPLE & FOR THE PEOPLE.
>
> Hence, the Government & all its functionaries are accountable &
> answerable to the People of India. Hence, the People of India have a right
> to
> question the Government that they have installed within the framework of the
> Constitution on its acts & omissions. This is otherwise known as the Right
> to
> Information.
>
> This Right to Information of the People of India is inalienable, axiomatic,
> fundamental as well as human right . This has been reaffirmed by the Supreme
> Court of India as a fundamental right forming a facet of Art. 19 (1)(a) of
> the
> Constitution of India
> To access, seek, receive & impart information is a Human Right
> (HR),as
> per Article 19 of The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
> (ICCPR) that was adopted by the General Assembly of The United Nations on
> the
> 16th December 1966, as cardinal principles of Human Right, embodied in The
> Protection of Human Rights Act 1993 section 2(d) & (f) forming a facet of
> Art.
> 21 Part III, Fundamental Right (FR) i.e. Right to life & Liberty, of the
> Constitution of India.
> Freedom of Information lies at the root of the rights discourse. Failure of
> the
> State to provide access to information or State suppression of information
> can
> lead to the most egregious forms of human rights violations. The Right to
> Information (RTI) is fundamental to the realisation of rights as well as
> effective democracy, which requires informed participation by all
>
> Trgatds,
> WEDS
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dr. Jagnarain Sharma <dr.jagnarainsharma@gmail.com>
> To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
> Cc: sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
> Sent: Mon, 13 December, 2010 6:32:46
> Subject: Re: Reply: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment
>
> DEAR WEDS & SARABJIT
> You have contributed lot of material on religion and philosophy,
> thanks for the same.
> For me you both are great.
> Let us ponder on the RTI Empowerment, as Mioly Sahab is going to
> dilute it and P.M. Sahab and Mahamahim President will not come to the
> rescue of common man/RTI Activist
> We need to fight on that matter alone, with the DOPT.
>
> With kind regards and great Devine Love to you both
>
> Dr JN Sharma
> ADVOCATE / RTI / HUMANRIGHT ACTIVIST
> 2, ashok lane Civil Court Lucknow
> Mob: 09335231213
> EX-FACULTY MEMBER ,ATTACHED TO RURAL DEV, PROJECT VISHWABHARTI
> UNIVERSITY,SHANTINIKETAN,WEST BENGAL &
> ALSO FACULTY MEMBER INSTITUTE OF BANKERS, LUCKNOW AND
> BRITISH SCHOLAR UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND
>
>
> On 12/13/10, DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dear Sarabjit & all others,
>>
>> You are free to hold any opinion you deem fit to hold as your conscience
>> dictates & freedom of speech & expression allows it & I do not dispute it.
>>
>> I am atheist. You may write anything you wish to & that dispensation has
>> been
>> sent by me to over a million persons via internet since 1992 & whoever who
>> replied have appreciated it as most rational.
>>
>> I will not dispute your private beliefs; you are free to hold them.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> WEDS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: sarbajit roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>> To: INDIA RTI for empowerment <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sun, 12 December, 2010 23:42:03
>> Subject: [rti4empowerment] Re: Poll results for rti4empowerment
>>
>> Dear Mr WEDS
>>
>> From your name it appears that you are one of those foreign financed
>> Christian Evangelists so notorious for deceiving innocent people.
>>
>> Unfortunately your post is too long, confused and badly structured.
>> Your arguments against God are incoherent, rambling logically
>> inconsistent, and frankly ignorant of Hindu religion. No rational
>> person can share your beliefs. I am a rational person and also believe
>> in God, or GOD. I find no inconsistency in my position.
>>
>> Let me set out a few of my core beliefs. These are basically as
>> published in English by Raj Narain Bose in about 1873. Raj Narain Bose
>> was the man who framed the concept of 'Hindutva', and was also
>> grandfather of Shri Aurobindo.
>>
>> 1) God is One without a second. "Ekamevadwiteeyam" One Supreme God— "a
>> God, endowed with a distinct personality & moral attributes equal to
>> His nature, and intelligence befitting the Governor of the
>> Universe," (We do not believe in His incarnations).
>>
>> 2) God has no name, no form, no limit. It is impossible to make an
>> idol of "him". God can be sensed through intuition in the the book of
>> nature.
>>
>> 3) To worship "him" is to love / adore him and do the things he loves
>>
>> 4) Worship of "him" needs no fixed place or time. "We can adore Him at
>> any time and at any place, provided that time and that place are
>> calculated to compose and direct the mind towards Him." There is no
>> need for gurus, or priests to conduct worship.
>>
>> 5) Do not perform any rites or ceremonies, or believe in penances, as
>> instrumental in obtaining the grace of God. We declare that moral
>> righteousness, the gaining of wisdom, Divine contemplation, charity
>> and the cultivation of devotional feelings, are our rites and
>> ceremonies. We further say, govern and regulate your feelings,
>> discharge your duties to God and to man, and you will gain everlasting
>> blessedness, purify your heart, cultivate devotional feelings, and you
>> will see Him who is Unseen.
>>
>> 6) Theoretically, there is no distinction of caste. We declare that we
>> are all the part of God, and, therefore, must consider ourselves as
>> one.
>>
>> 7) There are no places like heaven or hell.
>>
>> 8) There is no "soul".
>>
>> This BTW is pure classical Vedic "Hinduism" and not that corrupt form
>> which passes for Hinduism today among the popular classes and allows
>> foreigners to abuse and parody the supposed 33,000 crore godlets and
>> their gaudy "worship" perpetuated by false priestly classes.
>>
>> So before making sweeping assumptions/arguments about what most among
>> human beings believe in, please explain why you disagree with
>> traditional Indian Vedic beliefs as stated above.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On Dec 12, 3:37 am, DSouza Wilberious Evanglist
>> <wileva...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Every country should have a well defined policy. However, consider scores
>>> of
>>> Indians who illegally emigrate to USA Europe etc. Even India is formed
>>> by
>>> illegal immigration from all over the world over the time immemorial.
>>>
>>> Read this:
>>>
>>> HAR ZOR ZULLUM KE TAKKAR MEIN, KAAFLE BASTEY GAYE; HINDUSTAAN BANTAA
>>> GAYAA!
>>>
>>> India has accepted with open arms anybody seeking assylum.
>>>
>>> About "HINDU BIGOT" let us enlighten ourselves that human beings of
>>> different
>>> ethnicity exist in this world!!! For further enlightenment read the
>> folllowing:
>>>
>>> -BLIND BELIEF-DOES GOD EXIST??????!!!!!
>>>
>>> Please ponder over these very rational statements.
>>> Most amongst the human beings believe that God exists.
>>> For some it is either Brahma, Vishnu or Maheshwar or one of the 399 Gods
>>> &
>>> Goddesses or scores of spirits & ghosts,
>>> For some, it is Jesus Christ,
>>> For some it is Allah,
>>> For some it is Buddha,
>>> For some it is any of Jain Tirtankars,
>>> For some any of the Gurus of Sikhism so on & so forth.
>>> We quarrel amongst ourselves that we are Hindus, Christians, Sikhs,
>>> Muslims,
>>> Jains, Buddhists, etc., but, has any God or Goddess revealed himself or
>> herself
>>> to any one of us to either endorse our quarrel or decry it? Answer is an
>>> emphatic NO!
>>> Does any one who dies, return to tell tale about? Answer also is an
>>> emphatic
>>>NO!
>>> Is SWARG or NARAK, JANNAT or JEHANNUM, HEAVEN or HELL a large celestial
>>> world?
>>> If YES, how much of it is under control of any of these;
>>> BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESHWAR & 399 GODS & GODDESSES OR ALLAH, JESUS CHRIST,
>> BUDDHA
>>> ETC., so on & so forth? There is no answer!
>>>
>>> If one or some change ones or their faith, which Swarg or Narak, Jannat
>>> or
>>> Jehnnum, Heaven or Hell that one or those reach? None knows the answer!
>>>
>>> Do these Gods & Goddesses retain accounting books with them so that those
>>> who
>>> forsake a faith shall be a debit entry in the forsaken God/Goddess's book
>>> and
>>> credit entry in embraced God/Goddess's book? None knows the answer!
>>>
>>> If these Gods/Goddesses are OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPERVADING do they
>>> need
>>> Temples, Mosques, Churches, Basadis, Gompas, Gurudwaras? Answer obviously
>>> is
>> an
>>> emphatic NO!
>>>
>>> If these Gods/Goddesses exist, why Allah did not prevent demolition of
>>> Babri
>>> Mosque; why did Brahma, Vishnu, Maheswar & other 399 Gods & Goddesses did
>>> not
>>> prevent the demolition of scores of temples in India & outside after
>> demolition
>>> of Babri Mosque? Likewise, why Jesus Christ did not prevent demolition of
>>> churches in history? So much so, the Jain Sikh & Buddhist Gods prevent
>>> the
>>> demolition of the respective places of worships whenever they occurred in
>>> the
>>> history? E.g. Jain temples in Southern India & Buddhist temples in
>>> Northern
>>> India WERE converted to Hindu temples in the late second century A.D.
>>> when
>>> Hinduism usurped trampling Jainism & Buddhism in India ? Any answers?
>> Obviously
>>> NO!
>>> Is there any evidence of war or quarrel amongst or conquest of any of the
>>> Gods
>>>&
>>> Goddesses by the other? Answer is obviously NO!
>>>
>>> Followers of various faiths quarrel among themselves & one another
>>> without
>>> any
>>> interference from any of the Gods. Just as in the case of political
>>> parties,
>>> party leaders do not quarrel but, party workers quarrel for the leaders
>> sustain
>>> injuries & losses. What a paradox! Any reasons? Answer is yet again an
>> emphatic
>>> NO!
>>>
>>> Religions are being used just as political parties trying to create vote
>>> bank,
>>> by Swamis, Mullah's & others, Priests or numerous Godmen & Godwomen
>>> prompting
>>> their followers to quarrel for them.
>>> Why Gods & Goddesses exist only for Human Beings & not for reptiles,
>>> birds
>>> &
>>> Animals? Any answers? Obviously NO!
>>> In Punarjanm or Reincarnation, cow is one form of Punarjanm. Visualise a
>> Hindu,
>>> A Muslim, a Christian, a Sikh, A Jain, A Buddhist, so on & so forth
>>> having
>>> a
>>>cow
>>> each and if these sell their cows amongst themselves; does the cow sold
>>> relinquishes worship of God/Goddess of its earlier master/mistress &
>>> begin
>>> to
>>> worship God/Goddess of its new master/mistress? Any answers? Obviously
>>> NO!
>>> Which of the Gods/Goddesses the scores of birds, reptiles, animals in
>>> jungle
>>> worship? Any answers? Obviously NO!
>>> Human beings in the world speak scores of languages. Why these
>>> Gods/Goddesses
>>> standardize the languages spoken by their adorers? Any answers? Obviously
>>> NO!
>>> Sun shines evenly without discrimination upon a Hindu (any sect)
>>> Christian
>>>
>> (any
>>> denomination) Muslim( any denomination) so on & so forth. So does when
>>> it
>>> rains!
>>> A cat mews identically in a house of a Hindu (any sect) Christian (any
>>> denomination) Muslim ( any denomination) so on & so forth!
>>> A cow yields milk & milk alone regardless whether it is in the house of a
>> Hindu
>>> (any sect) Christian ( any denomination) Muslim( any denomination) so on
>>> &
>>> so
>>> forth!
>>> So does a dog or any other mammal that is reared!
>>>
>>> Every Purohit or Bhat, or Priest or Mullah or Sant avers that God always
>>> tests
>>>a
>>> devotee by giving him or her testing times & travails to ensure that
>>> he/she is
>>> steadfast in his/her devotion and also those who undergo travails &
>>>tribulations
>>> are ensured happiness in the other world; whereas, to bring the wrongdoer
>>> into
>>> God's fold God is extra benevolent to him/her! What a paradoxical
>>> justice!
>>>
>> What
>>> is it anyway; nothing but HUMBUG!
>>>
>>> Every faith propagates that the human beings were created by the creator,
>>> The
>>> God! In that case why the Gods created Human speaking different
>>> languages,
>>> different races, skin colour etc.?
>>> Why the Gods created Humans with uneven distribution of wealth, intellect
>>> &
>>> ability?
>>> Are so named or called Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Christians,
>>> Buddhists
>>> etc., so on & so forth, denote or connote different ethnic or groups?
>>> Answer
>>> obviously is No!
>>>
>>> These are only groups owing allegiance to different schools of thought!
>>> Just
>> as
>>> political parties!
>>>
>>> All Gods or Goddesses may at best historical personalities or creation of
>>> fertile imagination & nothing else!
>>>
>>> So, it is futile to build places of worship, e.g. TEMPLES, MOSQUES,
>>> CHURCHES,
>>> GURUDWARAS, JAIN & BUDDISTS TEMPLES so on & so forth & waste resources in
>>> propitiation, votive offerings etc.,
>>> All those God-men, God-women, priests, swamis, mullahs etc., exist by
>>> profession; only a CRAFT to earn one's livelihood! Just as Sanskrit
>>> saying;
>>> UDHARA BHARANUM; BAHUKRITA VESHAM!
>>>
>>>
>>> Further, every religion claims that all humans have a soul but, birds,
>> animals,
>>> reptiles etc., have none! What a partisan dispensation by the God!!!???
>>>
>>> "I helped give birth to three children with the human cloningtechnique,
>>> known
>>>as
>>> genetic recoding. It involved two boys and a girl who are nine years old
>> today.
>>> They were born healthy and they are in excellent health now." said
>>> Severino
>>> Antinori, a prominent gynaecologist, to Oggi, an Italian weekly in an
>> interview
>>> that appeared on Wednesday, the 4th of February 2009.Do these two boys &
>>> one
>>> girl who were created by Severino Antinorihave souls???!!! Any
>>> answers???!!!
>>>
>>> In India, recent statistics indicate that about 76% of Indian population
>>>subsist
>>> by earning just Rs. 25 a day. This population also worships different
>>> Gods/Goddesses, align themselves to varied faiths, pray, offer votives,
>>> pay
>>> obeisance! Alas! None of the Gods/Goddesses have alleviated them from
>>> this
>>> morass or predicament! So why waste time & spend hard earned money in
>>> these
>>> futile exercises?
>>>
>>> India, our motherland is so diverse, linguistically, ethnically and
>>> anthropologically with over 4000 languages about over 1600 religious
>>> practices
>>> and equally large ethnic origins; it can be equated to an extremely
>>> large,
>>> massively grown tree; in the boughs & branches immigrant birds from far
>>> and
>>> wide, genetically & specieally very diverse, have perched and built their
>> nests
>>> laid eggs in them, incubated them into fledglings which became fully
>>> fledged
>> to
>>> further the genus. This tree, the mother India has sheltered them and
>>> offered
>>> them a habitat & continue to do so without any discrimination on genus &
>>>specie!
>>>
>>> Hence, no specie of any genus can claim proprietary right on this tree!
>>> Those countrymen & women who on the basis of religion & God, spread
>>> hatred,
>>> strife, riots, vandalism, loot, unrest, massacre, bloodshed, lawlessness,
>>> anarchy, economic halt, shredding human fibre to pieces that cannot be
>>> rewoven
>>> into a fabric, are responsible for the tears those are shed from the eyes
>>> of
>>> hapless kith & kins of those who lose their parents, siblings, bread
>>> earners
>>> with gloom staring in their eyes! Let them think for a while & visualize
>>> what
>>> would have been their plight had they encountered similar predicament!
>>>
>>> So, in conclusion, none of the human beings have any choice when they are
>> born;
>>> let human beings live as human beings respecting others right to exist,
>>> live,
>>> pursue a profession, earn livelihood by fair & equitable means, so long
>>> as
>>>
>> such
>>> a behaviour does not cause any harm, injury, loss or consternation to
>>> others,
>>> coexisting in this world as human beings, in perfect symbiosis.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> WEDS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>