Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics

Dear Friends,
maharashies
why these idiots grow and prosper. why we people are so unsecured..
we should learn from history why mughals, british conquered this country we have always been divided on the basis of caste and creed. if we speak of hindus there are 17% elite class (so class) suvarn varg who is oppressive to 83% of rest of hindus.thought the things are changing still the divide of caste is very severe. if we are so divided how can we be a untied nation. nationhood becomes subsidiary once the religion comes up. be it Hindus/Muslims/Sikhs everyone. Politician are not God they are part of our society. if the society is divided and unconscious of their rights and duties how can we expect politicians to show great exmaples. there are so many religious groups which prefer to choose a candidate from thier own caste and group howsoever undeserving candidate it may be. the so called elected person knows this feeling and shortcoming and will always undue advantgae of that and will always ensure that this feeling always prosper so that his own vested interest is always fullfilled.
do we have one yardstick for measurement as a citizen of this country irrespective of being muslims/hindus rich & poor. we have everything there in the constitution but has it really been achieved.
our three pillars of democray legislative, executive and judiciary are so slow.
there was  news in times of india couple of days back " a police man was convicted for rape after 15 years of the event"....
what is the use of dispensing the justice so late...
dont forget britishers introduced the admininstrtive system to solicit their own interest and to plunder this country in a more mechanised way.
if we remember macualy we should not forget churchill as well who has said this country is so divided and the people are so administratively incompetent that if we give independence this country will be governed by dacoits & thieves.
we have prooved that forecast though to a great extent.
Still MERA BHARAT MAHAN.

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:19 PM, <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Kumar Ji, I did not mean integrity as honesty of us as the people of India  but the integrity of the Indian State as one unit.of administration or as a protectorate of the crown as it was then.known. Please understand, the foreigners did not come to India because they loved us. They were there because it suited them. and when they were there, they did some good things too. Patriotism is one thing but the reality is another thing. An objective mind would not hesitate to acknowledge it, an ideologue would think differently.  They were there because it suited them and when they decided to leave us, they left us virtually at one another's throat..People who have a realistic outlook can only acknowledge what was good and what was bad in a certain regime.A propagandist would fail to see it.
 
I think it would be relevant to quote a passage from an article "The last hope of the common Man"  by none other than the retired Lt. Gen. S.K.Sinha who served as governor of J & K. In his article, published today,  He has discussed the Legal system which the British had introduced across India.and I quote a passage as follows:.
 
"Despite bleeding the Indian economy throughout their rule, the British left behind sound institutions of governance. An independent judiciary was one of them. The Hindu legal code, based on Manu's caste philosophy was highly discriminatory against the depressed castes while the Islamic legal code discriminated against non-believers, But Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence provided equality for all. An accused was not guilty till proved otherwise . Criminal law now applied to everyone in the country irrespective of his/her religion.  The judicial system introduced by the British was based on total impartiality. The Directive Principles of our Constitution enjoins a common civil code, but for political reasons this has not been  implemented--------"
 
I hope this will clarify to you that point I was trying to make.  Regards Devinder.   

 
>>They gave you the integrity that your country never enjoyed before, >>
 
Devinderji!!
 
Have you not read the observation of Mac Caulay on India? This was posted so many times in this group. And you say Indians learnt integrity from British Rulers?
LORD MC.CAULAY'S ADDRESS TO THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT- 2ND.FEBRUARY,1835
"I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief, such wealth I have seen in this Country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this Country, unless we break the very backbone of this Great Nation, which is her Spiritual and Cultural heritage, and therefore I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated Nation"
Who looted the Country of all valuables starting from invaluable Kohinoor, Peacock Throne..etc? Looting a Country and stealing, robbing and enslaving people comes under the definition of integrity?
 
Perhaps such a perverted definition of integrity might apply to the present ruling UPA headed by an Italian Mafioso.

From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Cc: "kumar_8134@yahoo.com" <kumar_8134@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
We do not want toget lessons in politics from sycophant like you whose knowledge of good politics is restricted to what your masters are doing. The present position has come because you have forgotten the Maharashies and the only concern of the politicians is how to grab power withouf thinking of the interest of the state or country and its citizens.
What Baba Ramdevji is, a sycophant like you, will never understand; it is rather beyond your capacity to understand it. No doubt British taught us so many good things but that does not mean that everything they did was only good andyour masters have taken only that part which was not for the good of the country.
 
V.S.Sardesai --- On Wed, 13/3/13, devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Cc: "kumar_8134@yahoo.com" <kumar_8134@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, 13 March, 2013, 3:10 PM

You sound like a Maharaishi of the Stone Age. There is no truth or falsehood in politics. It is either good politics or bad politics. Good Raj Dharma or no Raj Dharma. No political party can have an exclusive claim to honesty.and the truth or even the right to power. It is the service of the people that should be the aim. Baba Ram Dev is an irrelevancy in politics and is paying a heavy price for being nothing more than a nuisance.
 
There is a lot you can be grateful to the British for. They gave you the integrity that your country never enjoyed before, They gave you the transport system you never had before.and they gave you the country wide administration, you never had before. They ruled us with an iron fist and as an Englishmn  said that "when the Indians will learn to stand in a queue and wait for their turn, they will perhaps get their freedom". 
 
Now there is an eternal 'Tu tu men men"going on  between us over who is more corrupt. The fact of the matter is that in the civilisational (Hamam) bath room we are all naked, .genetically naked. because we are genetically dishonest  So strengthen the anti-corruption forces in the country and try and change the mindset of the people, and sell honesty as an intrinsic human value. a very slow process indeed... Devinder Thkur
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Cc: "kumar_8134@yahoo.com" <kumar_8134@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013, 4:37
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
When there is a fight between truth and falsehood when falsehood is ruling, truth is bound to suffer; that is the experience and history; fight for independence has shown it.Now also it is no less a fight for independence. The methods adopted by ruling party is no less similar to one adopted by British during independence.Whether BJP will come to power or withdraws the cases or offer him a post is another matter which he is not bothered to look. It is for sycophants like you to bother about such questions and not for Karmayogis who are doing their duties.
 
V.S.Sardesai

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Cc: "kumar_8134@yahoo.com" <kumar_8134@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, 12 March, 2013, 10:44 PM

You may be absolutely right in your views about Baba's sincerity. He may be the most selfless person. but can you deny it that he is being made to pay a much heavier price for his participation in politics than his worth to those for whose benefit he is working for. This was the nub of my argument. He can only hope and pray that a BJP govt. at the Centre would withdraw all the cases against him and offer him some position whether he will take it or not is not important.  Devinder    
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Cc: kumar_8134@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2013, 4:08
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
Whether I am childish, or my use of the word sycophancy to those who are really sycophants reflect nothing more thanan elememt of desparation and in fact who have become desparates, only time will tell; already cracks are visible.
Limelight is required for people like you. Baba Ramdevji is not doing whatever work he is doing for getting limelight;he is very sincere in whatever he does and that hs why so many persons are after him; but that is beyond the understanding of sycophants who feel that others are doing social work for getting limelight like their masters doing whatever they are doing for looting the country. 
 
V.S.Sardesai    --- On Mon, 11/3/13, devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Monday, 11 March, 2013, 9:27 PM

I think your reply is nothing more than childish. Your frequent use of the words like "sycophancy" or "your masters" reflects nothing more than an element of desperation.
 
Baba Ram Dev might be more mature than I am . For all we know "His Holiness" might also be more spritual than the next man but he is certainly an inexperienced politician and he made himself look right "charlie" when he declared after breaking his five days fast that he was going to create an army of 11000 armed militia to create havoc in the country. Admittedly, he has sobered down a bit but not before he got a tick off from none other than Jaswant Sinha when His Holiness became openly abusive towards the whole of the political class.
 
Bit this is not the nub of the argument. The argument is the price these somewhat naive and gullible people have to pay for the 15 minutres limelight on an ambiguous political platform. What was wrong with Baba Ram Dev remaining a Yoga Guru and sell his "Chavanprash" than take on the might of the government of the day. and what was wrong if Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur had remained an ordinary member and worker of the BJP like some of us are.  You should think about it seriously and find some sober answers.  Devinder 
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Sent: Monday, 11 March 2013, 14:33
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
I think Baba Ramdevji is more matured than you and does whatever he does, after knowing thad understanding its consequences and I don't think he requires any advice from sycophants like you; you can reserve your advices to your masters who will require them in future as heat increases.
 No doubt Sadhwi is an example of human tragedy but that is wholy created by your masters and the dynasty and who are responsible for the same and if there is any  justice in this world, they are bound to pay for the same in the same coin very soon as Karkare paid.
 
V. S. Sardesai --- On Mon, 11/3/13, devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Monday, 11 March, 2013, 2:45 PM

I want to convey the dangers of mixing politics with religion. Baba Ram Dev is not exactly a religious Guru but a business man but "His Holiness "is paying a very heavy price for the nexus with politics. He could have remained a Yog Guru and sold his Vedic potions. Who gave him the slogan of Kala Dhan which was the slogan used by Sh.L K Advani in the last election. Who set out to uproot the UPA and who visited him in Hardawar after his five days fast.and who spent the night at the MKGandhi's Smadha at Rajghat after the Ram Lilla fiasco. You will get the answers to your questions there. . Sadhvi Pragya Singh is another living example of the human tragedy by the politics driven by  religious ideology. Devinder    
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Sent: Monday, 11 March 2013, 5:18
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
I don't understand why you are postulating the things assuring me that he does not require lip services and empty posturing by the saffron crowd either when nobody has offered any lip service to him or to you and I don't understand your habit of diverting the subject to Sadhwi.What exactly do you want to convey? I think he is quite capable to take care of himself. And for your information, as far as I know, he has not joined BJP.
 
V. S.Sardesai
 

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sunday, 10 March, 2013, 9:51 PM

Baba Ram Dev might not be me nor does he need my advice but be assured that he does not need all the lip service and empty posturing by the saffron crowd either as it has brought nothing for him but misery. although not exactly in the same way as it has done in the case of Sandhiv Pragya Singh Thakur.. a feisty young woman who fell for the saffron ideology and has paid a heavy price for a photo opportunity with the big wigs of the BJP and was seen in the picture sitting right behind Sh. Raj Nath Singh and is now rotting in Jail, suffering from breast cancer,  can't even get bail which is her right.but has been denied. Here father  who has recently died had told the press that let the law take its course.and the course of law has become a bit too long for any one's liking. and a good woman is being wasted in jail.
 
As far as one knows, no one senior from the BJP visited her. The only person who went to see her in prison was none other than good old Baba Ram Dev. So Jai Ho Baba Ram Dev Ji.Ki.  Devinder Thakur.
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 March 2013, 15:02
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
All this is thanks to the vindictive policy of the government led by the dynasty and supported by sycophants, as every one knows.
Thank God Baba Ramvevji is not you neither does he require your advice.,
 
V.S.Sardesai  --- On Sun, 10/3/13, devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Sunday, 10 March, 2013, 5:02 PM

I think in the whole game of politics, the 'Kala Dhan' which is nothing more than a "pie in the sky", the only loser has been the Baba himself. He business has been declared as non-charity, he is faced with a fat bill by way of income tax.plus he has been declared by the SC as 25 per cent contributory negligent in the Ram Lilla fiasco. He has lost the lease of the land in Himachal that BJP gave him by changing the use of the land, on a ridiculous annual ground rent of Rs one. What will happen to the structure that Baba has built on the land is not known. The case is before the high court awaiting trial. . The raw material he uses and sells at his outlets has been found to be adulterated.He might yet face a criminal investigation for the mysterious disappearance of his Guru, whose Asharam Baba Ram has been using as a beneficiary.and last but not the least, his companion Achary Balkrishan is involved in a criminal case of uttering false document to get Indian nationality.
 
Unless, the Baba has been offered the position of at least the Vice President of India, if I were in Baba's shoes, I would have remained a Yoga Guru and called it a day. Devinder Thakur
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, 10 March 2013, 9:41
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Baba Ramdev to communalise politics
Dear Vasant ji

I'm sure that you know that I, Sharmaji and many others on this list are no less wedded to cause of Hindutva than anyone else.

For your kind information the said meeting took place around 3.Nov 2009 and the videos of Ramdev's address is on youtube.

The Deobandi's are now being severely criticised within the Muslim polity for their association with Hindus. Ramdev's speech/video is a cited example.
http://reformer1500.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/haqikat-in-reality-of-deoband-madrashah/

"Home Minister P.Chidambaram, Minister of State for Communications Sachin Pilot, All India Muslim Personal Law Board's senior vice president Maulana Kalbe Sadiq and social activist Swami Agnivesh also addressed the gathering. Swami Agnivesh too drew much applause when he talked about banning liquor as well as urging Muslims not to recite Vande Mataram."

Can you deny "wherever BJP is in power Ramdev supports BJP, wherever Congress is in power he claims to be Congressi". This is not my statement, it is the statement of a very respected saint of Hindu Samaj. I shall not publish the rest of the statement as it is very well known.

In any case I find this whole line of argument about Ramdev's entry into politics to be irrelevant in the anti-corruption space now.

The list of Congress affiliated haramis who scuttled IAC's expose of the Commonwealth Games scam in 2010 is well known and published on the Art of Living website.  Swami Ramdev and Bharat Swabhiman Trust were very much a part of Congress's damage control mission then.
http://www.artofliving.org/in-en/india-against-corruption-iac

Sarbajit
On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 2:39 PM, vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
But he is ot after few thousands or lacs; he wants whole lot to be brought back. Any proof that he was a part of Chidembaram junket to Deoband?Orisit a fig of your imagination to ridicule him as a member of loot company?
 
V.S.Sardesai --- On Sun, 10/3/13, S.D. Sharma <anonsharma@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: S.D. Sharma <anonsharma@yahoo.com>
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