Re: [HumJanenge] Warning to Member [P.M Ravindran]

1.Action for response to draft Rules has been taken care of already.

2.Wonderful work for getting any RTI related issue needs appreciation.More so if its about effective implementation of Sec 4 of the Act. Your efforts are,therefore commendable,though the details are not exactly not known.Yes,for last two years, efforts are on to persue the suggestions given at appropriate quarters regarding adoption of holistic strategy  for effective implementation of the provisions of Sec 4 of the Act.Mere directions,even if given by the Apex Court might not suffice,unlees proactively the planned approach is put into operation. Its NOT vacuuous words but real-life methods,unfortunatively dubbed as management jargon,that have worked under diverse circumstances,for all known times in history,that have been very humbly suggested.

3.I Must,again with sense of humility and dignity inform that whatever has been posted is realistic and purposeful to advance the lofty cause of larger public interest,and just a part of wiser counsel of a veteran in the field of public service. I'll feel sorry if some part of it has been incidently construed as "unrequired"

4.Idon't wish to stand on any false prestige to enter into quibbles,as a lot it is already there to the dismay of one and all.There is also no desire to enter into one up manship game.

5.Keeping the fact of rich and varied experience of having commanded great organisations for long period and of specially having served lofty causes successfully (while working in Vigilance and Anti-Corruption Areas for 15 yrs) let me concede that no forum like this could(and should) be used for personaling the matters.

6.Someone who has mastered the art of harmonising conflicting interests,and is specially devoted to TRANSFORM INDIA CAMPAIGN,its preferable to keep away from entanglement,but concentrate on just the basics.

7, No offence is and could be meant to anyone.If anyone's feelings still seem to be hurt,unconditional apologies are tendered for that.

spm IPS DGP retd

BE MBA PhD

9841282324

 

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:54 PM, sroy 1947 <sroy1947@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir

I have not understood most of what you have written, especially the
management jargon. . Neither can I agree with you that people and
processes can be taken to act like sprites in a computer simulation /
action-plan / mission mode. All your plans and tactics are like those
used by our opposition. We are irregulars, we believe in guerilla
tactics, hit and run, and fight conventional fixed battles (ie legal
cases) only when we are very sure of victory (and after deep
preparation).

There is no wasteful discussion in this group. The list owners have
vast experience in managing RTI groups. We are carefully monitoring
and controlling the dynamic process here. I can safely say that these
are the most efficient RTI groups now in existence, and are getting
more efficient with the passage of time. We are also lucky to have the
aid and assistance of a very senior ex-IPS and some very senior IAS to
guide us.

We (the group) are like a still lake (or iceberg). The real action is
going on underwater
and bears little correlation to what is visible on the surface. Our
strategy is obviously
working (and very well too) if you feel that these
web-discussions/fights are keeping the public / RTI activists
diverted.

You may also be interested to know that the leading case in the SC on section 4
implementation is an offshoot of these groups. It has CIC pitted
against DoPT pitted against me pitted against DDA. It will surely be a
landmark judgment on RTI. Even
these draft RTI Rules are a direct consequence of this SLP.

FINALLY: the need of the hour is an effective and coordinated response
to the Draft RTI Rules. Any assistance you can offer on this would be
appreciated. The fight against corruption can be discussed / organised
in the New Year.

Best Wishes

Sarbajit Roy

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com> wrote:
> Its important that "content" replaces "form" and "substance" replaces
> "rhetoric".
> The top priority is,and should be to set out agenda.A draft needs to be
> circulated and within a given time-frame,with comments of all stakeholders
> accounted for,finalised.
> A proper action-plan ,with duties and responsibilities defined,of owners of
> different agenda items, then nneds to be drawn up and widely
> circulated.Through a proper review and monotoring mechanism the action-plan
> needs to be pursued,virtually with a missionary zeal.
> Hopefully all members reading this post would have their energies focussed
> on content.avoiding wasteful discusion on form.
> No need to reiterate,absolute requirement in use of graceful language,quite
> in conformity with our glorious culture and heritage.
> While some of the worty ones would like to do a well balanced exercise,just
> a few illustrative points are jottted down here:
> 1.Control and containment of discretion in decision making process at all
> levels.Apex Court judgements and proper legal counsel could help achieve it.
> 2.A simple yet effective document for common people to understand how
> non-implementation or ineffective implementation of the provisions of RTI
> aCT,2005 is detrimental to the interests of different sections of
> society.How directly,or indirectly,women,the children,the rural populace,the
> underprivileged,suffer in short and long run.Need for mobilisation of public
> opinion much more tham vacuuous web-fights is the need of the hour. The
> great causes of the day are goung to be served only through public
> participation in the long-drawn struggle.
> 3.Need to understand why there is lethargy in implementing the provisions of
> sec 4 of the Act so that judicial intervention could be sought and the very
> fact of needing info from PIOs, in most cases ,might become unnecessary.
> 4.Prioritisation of the Ministries/Departments/Organisations/PSUs in terms
> of their vulnerability to (high) level corruption.Likewise within these
> entities again vulnerable areas,as per ABC analysis.
> The seeking of info and its use,say through PIL,nneds to be in the order of
> priority to make optimal use of limited RTI resourses.
> To encapsule decades of varied experience,including 14 years in Vigilance
> and Anti-Corruption areas,is no mean task but its necessary to share the
> quintessence of it in some form to help the great and noble RTI
> Movement,which seems to be often going astray.
> spm
> IPS DGP retd
> BE MBA PhD
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:05 PM, nilesh suchdev <nilesh.suchdev@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> "Hollow vessels make the most noise." - bull's eye!
>>
>> People who hog limited resources shall be slaughtered like pigs. - hope it
>> applies to all who do that, including moderators and enforcers
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 5:01 PM, sroy 1947 <sroy1947@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This forum is an ideal(ised) democracy to give effect to the RIGHT of
>>> every member to post messages. Abuse of this right leads to expulsion
>>> from the forum. "Enforcers" take steps to prevent abuse and enforce
>>> the rights equally for the BENEFIT of all members..
>>>
>>> Merely because citizen/member X. does not (or chooses not to) post,
>>> does not mean that another member "Y" can usurp Mr.X's right by
>>> claiming to represent/speak for him. Again, merely because somebody
>>> posts more or shouts louder does not confer authority.
>>> "Hollow vessels make the most noise."
>>>
>>> In the real world RTI analogy, there would be limits imposed on the
>>> RTI requests, RTI appeals etc which would be allowed to be filed. In
>>> this way TRUE DEMOCRACY would be achieved.
>>>
>>> If not, there are many "militaries" waiting in the wings (or forests)
>>> to enforce their versions of people's power. People who hog limited
>>> resources shall be slaughtered like pigs.
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, nilesh suchdev
>>> <nilesh.suchdev@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > is this a forum or some military regiment...?!!!
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:16 AM, S.D. Sharma <anonsharma@yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Kindly be advised that group regulations permit ordinary members
>>> >> to post upto 3 messages per day and 10 messages per month.
>>> >>
>>> >> On exceeding this limit, your group membership / privileges may
>>> >> be affected.
>>
>
>