Re: [HumJanenge] RTI experts help / opinion needed

GOI's Committe on Civil Services'Reform(2001-02) and Second ARC have desired need for all departments to acquire ISO Certification on need basis.

For general improvement of administration, delegated powers are available for incurring expenditure,with the executives and for that no seperate budget/sanction/approval etc is essential.

One can find afault with an organisation for NOT ontaining ISO Certification butCERTAINLY NOT for ACTUALLY obtaining it

Wonder how many people are comfortably placed with knowledge and nuances of ISO Certification !

As a Lead Auditor of ISO Certificaton and active promoter of the system(NO AXE TO GRIND PL) I can very confidenly declare that if implemented corectly,in letter and spirit,it can cause multiple benefits to the organisation/society/public;in fact all stakeholders. I'VE GOT tens of crores,if not hundreds of crores saved in TNEB,and ensured National Award winning PLF(Plant Load Factor) for the ISOCertified major Power Plants of Tamil Nadu.

I would dare say that if properly implemented,almost all of the major scandals/scas/rackets seen in recent times,what to say of ordinary cases of irregularities/.malpractices/corruput practices would certainly not have occurred at all.

The whole scheme needs to be comprehended well by the debating participants.Though,on face of it ISO is meant for quality assurance,in practice,it sets out detailed mechanism of procedures and the documentation that virtually precludes the possibility of indulgence on corrupt practices. Also,if in the worst case scenario,things do go wrong,detection of the wrong doing and fixing of responsibility are generally quite easy.

BIS(Bureau of Indian Standards) is quite competent to give ISO Certification.Only they don't do their business in proactive manner and hence BVQI and other foreign Certifying Agencies chip in to make hay.

If any one has any misgivings about ISO certification,he/she could contact me seperately also as the general members may not be interested in discussion on technical issues.

Lasly,its sheer waste of time and resourses to take up  SUBJECT,even in RTI forum,when no public interest is going to be seen to be served at all.Also ISO Certification,itself deals with transparency and hence trying to do pin pricking in an area alin to open book is just wastage of time.No one gets ISO Certification on the sly or for personal benefit etc.Its an awefully painstaing task,involving the whole of organisation,for long.Whats hidden or concealed? Nothing.

spm

IPS DGP retd

BE MBA PhD

919841282324

 

 

On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Dr.M.C SINDHUR <drmcsindhur@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all,

 

RTI  Replies obtained by Hubli Dharwad Municipal Corporation (HDMC) Hubli  Karnataka With regard to administrative procedures followed while obtaining ISO 9001:2000 Certification. From International Agency in Karnataka for the municipal corporation functioning under KMC Act 1976.

 

Following are the replies given by HDMC Hubli for different querries under RTI.

 

1)There is  no specific provision in KMC ACT 1976 for obtaining ISO certification.

2)There is no permission from Government of Karnataka for incorporating ISO

3)There is no permission /consent of Urban Development Department. Bangalore

4)There is no amendment to KMC Act 1976 for obtaining ISO certification.

There is no Notification from Government for Obtaining ISO Certification in the state

5)There are no Orders /Notifications from any Government competent authorities for  obtaining ISO certification for government agencies.

6)There is no Gazette Notification in this regard from state government.

7)There are no bills passed in Karnataka Legislature for obtaining ISO certifications.

8)HDMC Hubli has obtained ISO for making administrative improvements in functioning

9)There is no specific mention in the HDMC budget for payment of fees to ISO company , the fees paid as consultancy services from public exchequer

10)There is no permission from department of personal and administrative reforms(DPAR)

11)There is no Actual approval of HDMC general body (GB) resolution of elected members only administrator has given his consent.

12)HDMC has paid Rs.5,92,000/- fees for ISO certification international agency from 2007 to 2010 and recertification / audit from yr 2010 to 2013 is Rs.1,42,500/-

13)HDMC has not sought any Legal opinion on this issue by legal cell

14)They have not made any changes in service recruitment rules for employees to discharge duties as per ISO norms.

15)They have  no documents / amendments to By laws / Rules / Regulations / Guidelines of HDMC for conduct of Routine administrative  business of local body.

16)They have no fixed guidelines / rules framed for Discharging duties / service  manual under ISO obligation. they say they discharge duties under KMC Act 1976.

17)They have not displayed Citizen Charter in Prominant places of the City.

 

Thanking you

 

Wish you all Happy new Year

 

Dr.M.C.Sindhur

Hubli 

 

 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com> wrote:

A comprehensive check-list based system with appropriately worded(formatted) undertakings at all relevant levels,is a good mechanish to ensure quality/pricing/timeliness of the work.

It can be standardised countrywide,through modular approach(for ease of modifications,when required) and stakeholders' feedback system could make the scheme even further tighter to permit any irregularity/malpractice/corruot practice.

I achieved so while on deputation to TNEB(Tamil Nadu Electricity Board) some 7-8 years back.

spm

IPS DGP retd

9841282324

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:32 PM, SHASHI KUMAR.A.R. <rudreshtechnology@gmail.com> wrote:

I Had filed one complaint to loakayuktha during 2008 , but no action was taken by karnataka lokayuktha against corrupt bbmp comissioners and Engineers , the lokayuktha officials are dragging the matter

Karantaka loakayuktha is intersted in big big cases which are coming in media , They have not taking any steps to investigate and take action against corrupt officials , Inside lokayuktha there is a lot of corruption , First thing is to make lokayuktha department corruption free ,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Dwarakanath <dwarakanathdm@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends, the elements of  activities mentioned by jk, if were to be dishonest, it is collosal.   Our Constitution is sacred and quite modestly on the level.   But there are certain laws, rules, bye-laws, administrative orders, emanating from the States and some times even by the Centre, which are the primary cause of or what u call as a loop hole, which is exploited by clever and unscrupulous persons. The State sometimes even if they need to rectify the situation there are proceedural bottlenecks, the willingness to do so or overcoming oppositions for achieving are factors permitting such eventual possibilities that are mentioned by you.    First of all if an attempt is to be made by any and all to set right things, we have to go back to Part IV of the Constitution wherein ideal situations for the good governance have been stocked in the 1950 constructed godown.  There are not many Laws to achieve the Policy and duty that are enshrined in Part IV of the Constitution.  Even though it is the duty of the State to make Laws according to the provisions in Part IV, there are inumerable laws which do not come anywhere near achieving these objectives.  The State in the earlier eras which was self reliant and a government to achieve a sufficiency locally, has been considerably cornered into the clutches of Corporates.  Everything from creating a  public toilet to a huge mega project is under the grip of Corporates.   The well intended Tendering system and the strict proceedures earlier adopted to prevent the mal practices are being weakened by extrenuous considerations and dilutions of the tendering system itself.   The justifications for any projects are not evaluated properly on the requirements of public, the utility for the public, the need for such things in a given State are given the go bye.  The elected representatives are supposed to be the guardians against the defects and mal practices in any system of public system and modifying them to the needs of the local Community or State.   In the modern electorate system, it leaves largest gap of wishing things to be done, than doing things the right way.  Immense competition to serve the Public sacrificing their personal convenience has become highest priority.   The lure for the political posts seems to be never ending. The competitiors wish to help the public solve their problems has resulted in multiplying it.  The age old laws of the income tax department to keep three stages of taxation, has forgotten the concept the "tax the payer till his capacity to pay".    The huge items and quantity of exemptions and exceptions from income, the tax holidays, are ever growing, the objects of which is against the conceptualisation of Part IV of Constitution.  The perks the facility, the pension even for short terms, the reservations in logistics, the posh cars to carry our elected leaders in their holistic and dedicated venture of public good is ever growing.   Their salary is ever so uneconomical compared to their stature.  Many of the Policy and practices  of the elected leaders are so clean and neat that it hardly produces any scams.   The modern state is on the way to achieve the reduction of class distinctions in the country.  There could probably be only two classes in a short course of time, the Rich and the Poor.   It appears we may be probably heading to a situation that existed  in France at the time of Luis the XIV, that is Public good too miniscule, private luxuries abundant, immense and unreasonable exceptions to every rule of Law, uncontrolled population explosion, destruction of Trees, incorrect distribution of Food grains, stagnating number of Police Force, Limited residential accommodation as against the demands, ever increasing power supply rates, and diminishing production of power, Water, hygiene, the political upheavels in the house where peace, tranquility, happiness, abundance to those who elected them is not the object of immediate need in peaceful manner! the high cost of living, huge acquisitions of lands of agriculturist, all these factors does not augur good for the country. Unless the political system is put on proper groove, a co-operative and complimentary venture in public oriented welfare laws, decisions, activities, it is hard to hope for good things to come to my mother india sooner.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:01 AM, K N Jagadesh kumar <jkgroup999@gmail.com> wrote:

Dwarkanath sir,

One Lokayuktha and such a big corrupt system.

Just Imagine 500 Man power of Lokayuktha has to check the 6 crore population problem where is the logic?

it is the duty of every citizen to ask for accountability, unless the system remain the same.

Poor one Honourable lokayuktha Santhosh hegde cannot eradicate the phenomina "Corruption"

 Do u Know?

The Approximate length of Golden Quadelateral (National Highway) is around 18,000 thousand kilometer.

You know there are more than 1800 toll plazas spread across this 18,000 KM.

you know each toll plaza has invested ranging from Rs.50 Crore to rs.1000 crore accordingly.

You know there monthly collection varies from Rs.15 Crore to Rs.75 Crore.

You Know Most of them have been leased from 10 to 20 years lease period.

You know Most of the companies have recently floated and aquired this toll gate tender?

Where did this new companies get so many crores of capital to float a company and get the tender?

is these companies bename?

why is the governmnet silent on this?

why is the deatsils of toll plazas and there accountability is not on National hightway web site even after 5 yaers of RTI act 2005 ?

Is the governmnet floated only to create business for capitalist and keep citizen in tension for another 100 years(unhappy)

 You know if u travel from Bangalore to Mumbai via national high way in car ( You dont have alternative road) you pay Rs.985 of toll gate charges. The Quality of the Roads are so bad but citizens are they feel better because there are no pathholes.

For 1000 kilometer there are 13 toll gates.

The Governmnet collects Road tax from vehicles . Life time tax for private vehicles and once in three months for commercial vehicles. we pay per liter of petrol approximatly  Rs.13 to Union Government and rs.11 for state governmnet plus other cess. 

after this we have to pay for toll to travel in our own country. 

why Cant the governmnet create a road for people who cannot pay toll?

is it not the duty of the governmnet to create an alternative road where there is no toll?

is the poverty a crime in india?

Citizens have sincearly paid for last 63 years for corrupt faults why is the citizen taxed on national highways?

in 2 G spectrum scandel there was a loss of Rs. 2 lakh thousand cross loss to Governmnet exchequer. if this amount was available we could have made good and beautiful roads without any toll in entire india including remote villages and rural areas.

One Ambani builds house spending Rs.4,000 Crores and another Ambani competes to build much costlier one, where as 45% of indian population who sleeps on foot paths struggle to have one time food. who will answer this 2G scandel ? i think we have got the answer. if you ask ambanis they will answer in democracy we have every right to live and earn. so lets not dare to ask them.

In india every day 7,000 children die due to non availabilty of food where Sharad pawar says rottening of thousands of tonnes of food grains is not a crime and our beloved Prime Minister says Supreme court not to interfere as the matter pertains to Policy making. What policy mr. PM for the last 63 years Poor are remaining poor and now they reached a stage of genocide and rich are enriched and this is the right policy.

In karnataka 280 beggars died in month in governmnet beggars colony , no investigation because poor dont have right to live, its right they should die donating there kidneys and eyes. ( scandel).

You Know The Union Governmnet has marked Three lakh acres of forest land in 2010 for mining freshly . that is almost six times bigger than the capital Delhi Knowingly the scandel of mining. Future generation will have only desert to see and they can virtual tour of forest in internet.

best of luck future generation.

We are very very selfish that we cant sphere any thing for your future .

 

Bachalo his India ko -poori tara barbad hone se pehele

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Dwarakanath <dwarakanathdm@gmail.com> wrote:

Mr Jagdeesh kumar, has come out with detailed percentage of kick backs to BBMP.     He has an option to disclose these information to Lok Ayuktha, and they will take further action to clean the system to the extent possible. Regards, dwarakanathdm

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:15 PM, K N Jagadesh kumar <jkgroup999@gmail.com> wrote:

To shashi kumar

From K n jagdesh kumar

I  saw your comment on pathholes, for the last 7 years i am a bbmp contractor. you are correct 45% of the bill amount goes as kick backs. i can give you description also:

Ward engineer: 5%

Assistant Exexutive Engineer: 4%

Executive Engineer- 5%.

Supertendent Engineer-3%

Chief Engineer -2%

For getting the tender alloted  -5%

Third Party inspection -2%

Lab Certification-3%

Accounts: from P1 to Chief accounts-11%

Head office: 5%

 

at the end of 2 years a contractor receive the bill. 

if You are very very very lucky 6% you have to pay canara bank for Hundi to discount your bill.

i say a BBMP contractor gets his bill after 2 years paying this 45% kick backs.

A contractor invest -receives after 2 years.

An BBMP official doesn't invest anything  but he takes kick back instantly.

So just imagine what quality you can expect on roads

bachoa amara india ko from this corrupt officials & Rog Politicians.

thank you

K N Jagadesh kumar

09845500932

RTI activist/LL.B

  

 

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:48 PM, SHASHI KUMAR.A.R. <rudreshtechnology@gmail.com> wrote:

In india what ever the certificates issued by the certificates like ISO , BSI and other quality certificates issued by labs are taking money , some times the goods without any certification may having good qulality and life , For example we are staying in silcon city , But none of the roads of bangalore are without humps , bumps , pot holes , 365 days digging by various agencies like water ,sanitary , electricity 

telephone , internet , optical fibre etc , one of the citizen asked the bangalore nagarapalike regarding number of pot holes and size , our engineers are very clever they counted and given the information 

the amount spent is only 30% of the estimate remaining is paid interms of kickbacks by contractors this is the fate of great bangalore , they who will insure the roads , but the persons using roads must 

be compulsorly insured 

ARS KUMAR. BE LLB MA JOURNALISM 

RTI Activist 

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Dr.M.C SINDHUR <drmcsindhur@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected all sirs/Madam,

 

Thanks all for kind valuable reply and guidance . I am resident of Hubli in Karnataka the fact is Our city Corporation has got ISO certification since last 3 years ceertificate was purchased in 2006 by Paying Rs.5.90,000/- for three years and Rs .1,42,500/- presnt 3 years The ISO certification has no roll in administration / powers for providing better civic facilities nor any thing good happening for city.The Civic body only  murmers about ISO and says we are ISO certified and our services are good.But in reality ISO certificates are useless piece of papers purchased for money by government offices by tax payers money .The Karnataka government has no gazette for obtaing ISO certificates for civic bodies. There is no law in force by state government  but show is going on for buying ISO certificates. The foriegn company opens offices in metro /major cities and offers service of issueing ISO certificates with veriying rates from lacs to crores being exchanged from public exchequer.ISO certificates are issued for money and they are not under the ambit of law in karanataka. The FERA regulations must be checked enforced to check the illigal transaction from international companies operating in India under these fictious names for dodging the government agencies for money.

 

Dr.M.C.Sindhur

Hubli

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:14 AM, sandeep kumar <drsandgupta@gmail.com> wrote:

Please send rti to MInistry of consumer affairs. in it also write a
note that I do not exactly know who is to be sent this rti application
and transfer it under 6(3) if it does not concern your office.

On 12/8/10, Dr.M.C SINDHUR <drmcsindhur@gmail.com> wrote:
> To,
> Dear members of Humjanenge group,
>
> SUB:    ISO Certificates issued from international agencies obtained by
> Government agencies /Bodies by paying tax payers money.
>
> Respected Sir,
>
> I would like know and seek help of experts in using RTI .
>
> How to know and extract information under RTI for legal piont of view that
> The  Government  /State / central Organisations / Bodies seeking ISO
> CERTIFICATES from international agencies .The Government agencies are
> spending  tax payers money to buy /Purchasing for huge sums such
> certificates ? Is there any regulation for obtaining ISO certificates from
> International agecies.
>
> whether ISO certifying agencies are recognised by Union Government of India
> / States under the Law.?
>
> What are the propcedures to be followed under Law of Authority and rules
> /regulations/ guidelines framed by Government Of India /State Governments
>  under the
> contitutional amendments made to Laws /Acts/Notifications/Ordinance to get
> Clearances to certify  of government agecies /Bodies by Interantional
> accredition /auditing agencies./Gazette Notification/ Amendments /Cabinet
> approavals/ Approval from Lokasabha / Rajyasabha through Bills and competant
> authorities of Finance Department for allowing payment being made to such
> international agencies? Service tax norms for the services offered under
> such certificates
>
> What are the stauotory /Contitutional requirements mandetory for obtaing ISO
> certifictes from international agencies in india for Central / State
> Government agencies?
>
> If not under the Law Of Authority  prescribed by Indain /State Government
> Laws /Acts In force Law  can they be called illigal?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Thanking you
>
> Your's Faithfully
>
> Dr.M.C.Sindhur
> VIDYANAGAR
> Hubli-21
>

--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181

--
K N Jagadesh Kumar
9845500932
jkgroup999@gmail.com

--
K N Jagadesh Kumar
9845500932
jkgroup999@gmail.com