not only that, when his jawan go on leave hard up n want sex with his wife who may not be ready n may complain against her husband for rape n soon co gets a telegram of most of his jawans r in jail for raping their wives. than what? In arrange marriages in 99% cases the first times it may always be a rape spec in rural India. I think boys may stopped getting married. Than what? These orders may increase rape cases instead of reducing,We have to be very careful in implementing these orders. There is no doubt that what has happened in Nirbhay's case is a heinous crime n it should be treated by law accordingly but it dos not mean that the system will go completely over board n make such rules which can never be implemented. There r already a lot of problems in marriages n boys have to go n buy brides n get cheated, finds next day the newly bought wife is sitting in police station with a complain of kidnapping n rape case, see the problem society going to face next. I think no one is going to get a wife for spending the rest of his life in jail.
From: tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 12:18 PM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Justice Verma Report: Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 12:18 PM
Subject: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Justice Verma Report: Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
----- Forwarded Message -----
Dear Mr Virender Bhogal,
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Virender Bhogal
Date: Friday, January 25, 2013
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Justice Verma Report: Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
--
Virender Bhogal
+1 206 218 4660
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LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
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You are right .
As an extension of the absurd line of argument, the great grand father, grand father and father of the rapist/s should also end up at the receiving end.In the clutter generated,the main issue of ensuring proper administration of the law will then surely be forgotten.
Do the protagonists of woman safety and rights,do really mean what they say when a Co of a Regiment should go for a high jump.
Persons used to misuse of power/money power , gross and crude immoral personalities reaching / forcing themselves to positions of opinion builders, all are going scot free.
A humdrum soldier running his 'pal tan' understaffed will surely cop it administratively if his men are found guilty unlike the other establishments,wherein accountability is ignored .It would be wise to notice the elephantine issue of making streets safe for women first and then the other related issues. No logic or sense in throwing punches wildly.
A humdrum soldier running his 'pal tan' understaffed will surely cop it administratively if his men are found guilty unlike the other establishments,wherein accountability is ignored .It would be wise to notice the elephantine issue of making streets safe for women first and then the other related issues. No logic or sense in throwing punches wildly.
Regards.
LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Virender Bhogal
Date: Friday, January 25, 2013
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Justice Verma Report: Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Reply to seema mustafa <seemamustafa@gmail.com>
This argument is absurd, just as the verma report.
By this logic responsibility ascribed up the chain in a hierarchical organization like the Army should end up at the President of India, or the misdeeds of a peon in prime minister secretariat to the PM. And, with the Chief Justice of India sitting in a jail for the misdeeds of the dysfunctional judiciary - the country will come to a grinding halt - this perhaps would not be so bad.
Best Regards,
Virender
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:36 AM, seema mustafa <seemamustafa@gmail.com> wrote:
Ridiculous comments by some in the story. If the CO can't ensure the conduct of his men towards women all the more reason for the ordinary criminal laws of the land to be made applicable instead of protecting sexual molesters under AfSPA.The false case excuse has been heard many times before. One there are very few women who will say they have been raped when they have not; and besides surely the courts and the investigating authorities can be trusted to being justice? The army can always represent its men if it is convinced of their innocence in the courts.
Seema MustafaWhat can be our stand on this issue?
Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
NEW DELHI: The J S Verma Committee report has come under intense criticism from security forces for suggesting "breach of command responsibility", holding a commanding officer (CO) responsible if a junior commits rape. The report's suggestion to amend the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) has also been opposed by the armed and the paramilitary forces.
Many COs and senior officers are arguing that the breach of command responsibility was unacceptable and could lead to COs ending up in jail for upto seven years for the misdeeds of a junior.
"I have almost 1,000 personnel under me, and they are spread across some five kilometres. They could go on leave, or temporary duty. How am I to ensure their sexual conduct throughout the year, 24 hours a day?" asks the CO of an Army unit.
Officials in the Union home ministry too were taken aback by the panel's "unusual" suggestion to include "breach of command responsibility" as an offence under Section 376. "How can the officer commanding a battalion be held responsible if a junior he sends on a patrol suddenly chooses to go morally astray?" asked an officer, adding that vicarious liability in such a case is "nothing short of absurd".
Another senior officer of the security establishment indicated that the forces deployed in conflict zones like Jammu & Kashmir, Maoist-affected states and the insurgency-hit areas in the north-east, have to constantly guard against foisting of false cases by local, self-proclaimed rights groups who may actually be a front of terrorist or extremist groups. "The J S Verma committee's suggestion, if accepted, will only give such activists a legal handle to falsely implicate not only the jawan but his CO as well," the official warned.
A senior CRPF officer posted in a Naxal-infested area said, "Inserting breach of command responsibility in Section 376 is stretching the law too far. There is so much moral degradation in the society. Anyone can commit a crime on a given day. How can you hold the commanding officer responsible because a constable has gone berserk. No one will work for the forces then."
A BSF officer from the Eastern frontier added, "This is akin to jailing the mother for the crime of the son. We already have a mechanism where commanding officer is reprimanded for transgressions of a junior officer; administrative actions are taken. But punishing him for individual aberration is just not on. Unless there is an organised criminal behaviour in a unit, commanding officer cannot be held responsible."
The J S Verma Committee has recommended the introduction of a new section 376F in the Indian Penal Code (IPC) for offence of breach of command responsibility. The proposal is to hold responsible "whoever, being a public servant in command, control or supervision of the police or armed forces...or assuming command whether lawfully or otherwise, fails to exercise control over persons under his or her command, control, or supervision and as a result of such failure" rape and similar offences are committed.
The COs would be held "guilty of the offence of breach of command responsibility" if he "failed to take necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress the commission of the said offences," the committee has recommended.
Presently, there is no criminal liability for a CO of an Army unit in cases where his subordinates are involved in any kind of breach of discipline. It does of course invite administrative action, or even dismissed from service. The introduction of a criminal liability by a CO for actions of a junior would add a completely new and extremely challenging burden to being a CO, say army officers.
The Committee has also recommended amendments to the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), saying, that "impunity for systematic or isolated sexual violence in the process of Internal Security duties is being legitimized" by AFSPA.
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Virender Bhogal
+1 206 218 4660
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and solely intended for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete and/or destroy this message and any attachments immediately. It is prohibited to copy, distribute, disclose or use this e-mail and any attachments in any other way. I do not accept any responsibility or liability for any damage resulting from the content of and/or the transmission of this message.
--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
Cell-9912594602
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