Sunday, December 30, 2012

Re: [IAC#RG] PRESS RELEASE. Death of Delhi's innocent gangrape victim.

I've ended up on this list by mistake (I'm not sure who added me, but after reading some of the comments here, I'm not sure I want to be part of this reactionary group anyway).

Think about what you guys are proposing - These are mostly ways to deal with the after-effects of the crime. Giving more power to the government and courts in a corrupt country like India will just end up giving people in power more ways to abuse their power. (remember TADA/POTA? The Patriot Act in the US is a prime example of extraordinary powers being used for extraordinary abuse in a country where the system isn't even as corrupt as India).

What we need is a society where respect for women (and men) is inculcated into every child so that they don't grow up to become the sort of rowdies that prowl the streets today. You may prevent rapes with the threat of extraordinary punishment, but what about women who can't walk the streets without being groped, whistled-at or being made generally uncomfortable? Respect for our fellow human beings is something that Indian society sorely lacks, with all our built-in class and caste system (with women definitely being seen as a lower class than men, even within the household).

What we also need is a police system where efficiency is expected, and corruption is severely punished. Giving more power to policemen will just end up in abuse. They need to be more accountable for their actions, while being expected to work as proper guardians of the law and order system.

A few thoughts about some specifics proposed below:

All MPs and MLAs charged for any crime should be thrown out of Parliament/Assemblies. Political parties should be forbidden to give membership to such people.
This would just be abused - getting charged for a crime is pretty easy in India. If this leads to automatic disqualification, then political parties (especially the ones in power) will simply charge their opponents with crimes to get them out of their way. 

Appeal can only be done in Larger Bench of Supreme court
Changing the appeal system to bias the law in favor of a particular outcome is a terrible idea. The supreme court exists as the court of final appeal for a good reason.

 The powers of pardon given to the President need to be curtailed.
This is not a power that's generally abused, so why curtail it? What happens when the next case is one where society wants the President to pardon someone?

The age limit for juveniles needs to me reduced to 15 or 16. 
Is there something special about the age of 15 or 16? Heinous crimes have been committed around the world by children much less than 15, so the next time a 14 year old murders someone, will we want the age to be reduced further?
Instead of nitpicking at the law to get a specific outcome in this particular case, you guys should be focusing on the big picture (how to prevent this in the future and how to improve the legal system in general)

Fast courts to deal with crimes against women. 
Why just women? The legal system has checks and balances for a good reason (i.e. don't let an innocent person be convicted, even if a guilty person goes scot-free). If the system is bypassed to make it faster just because the case is for a woman, people will find ways to abuse it in the future.

Improve the legal process for every citizen, not for a particular gender. That's what every modern society does.

 Lastly, but most importantly….our country does not need politicians. We need good administrators e.g Mr Jag Mohan (Ex Governor Of J&K)
What kind of idiocy is this? Are you suggesting that instead of improving our democracy, we throw it out in favor of a dictatorship? Because that has worked out wonderfully in other countries?

I appreciate the goals behind this group, but please try to keep in mind that the changes you try to create should not create fresh problems for society to deal with years in the future. Terrible tragedies bring out strong reactions in people, but they need to be tempered by your experience so that the solutions are not worse than the problem.

cheers and goodbye.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 4:15 AM, Shama Zaidi <shamazaidi@gmail.com> wrote:
anybody who praises jagmohan needs his head examined

On 30 December 2012 10:49, Rakesh Sant <rakeshsant@hotmail.com> wrote:

I fully endorse the suggestions of General VP Malik and wish to add:

a)      All the case must have a time frame. This must be specified at the time of filing  of the case.

b)      Accused person should not be given bail in any case.

c)      16 yrs old boy caught in this case must be examined by a psychiatrist and kept in jail permanently. With his criminal tendencies, he will again harm an innocent citizen.

d)      There should be a separate cell for rape cases and this cell should have only females from the Police. They should be trained to handle such cases.

e)      All the bus stops and places near colleges, Delhi university, IT offices must have mast mounted CCTV with night vision capability, installed.

f)       Lastly, but most importantly….our country does not need politicians. We need good administrators e.g Mr Jag Mohan (Ex Governor Of J&K)

g)      All the Police force must be withdrawn from VVIP/VIP/Ex DGs/ Retired IGs etc etc, with immediate effect. If they are not concerned about the safety of the Aam Adami, then why tax payers money is being spent on their safety? All the Police force locked up in the security of these VIPs & retired DGs etc will be good enough to look after one state.

Regards

Rakesh Sant

 

From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net [mailto:indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of govind govindarajan
Sent: 29 December 2012 22:44
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; drbanvir@yahoo.co.in


Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] PRESS RELEASE. Death of Delhi's innocent gangrape victim.

 

it is really great to see great luminaries of the armed forces are coming out in support of the cause.

I wish the powers that be take note of the anguish and the concern of the enlightened highly respected service heads are also up and protesting in public.

   Hope you will influence other former chiefs of all three services to come out publicly and not be silent on this issue, to force the government to relent and accept rational ways of respecting public anguish.

regards,

Air Cmde (retd.) VS Govindarajan VM

 

From: Ved Malik <vedmalik@gmail.com>
To: drbanvir@yahoo.co.in
Cc: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] PRESS RELEASE. Death of Delhi's innocent gangrape victim.

 

Very disturbing news! Feel very sad for her and her parents. Braveheart! RIP.

 

Public anger should be directed to Electoral, Judicial and Police reforms. 

  • All MPs and MLAs charged for any crime should be thrown out of Parliament/Assemblies. Political parties should be forbidden to give membership to such people.
  • Police Reforms as approved by the Supreme Court in 2006 should be implemented in letter and spirit by all states.
  • Fast courts to deal with crimes against women. 
  • Respect for women in  society should be part of social studies in all schools. No religion or Khap Panchayat should be allowed to pass dictats that violate this spirit.

General (Retd) V P Malik

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, <drbanvir@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Such people should be hanged in open place in front of public

Sent from BSNL with my BlackBerry® smartphone

Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:38:37 +0530

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] PRESS RELEASE. Death of Delhi's innocent gangrape victim.

 

IAC does not indulge in politics.

This incident has shocked and roused the nation. IAC will pursue it in our own ways once the TV cameras and NGOs have moved onto other issues, and long after all the candles being lit today have flickered out.

Ajay

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 3:49 PM, <asokemazumder@yahoo.com> wrote:

Come on this is not the time for politics or blame game.
Please practice restraint at least at this hour, please
Regards
AK Mazumder

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

From: Mohammed Ghani <mdghani33@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] PRESS RELEASE. Death of Delhi's innocent gangrape victim.

 

we share your feelings and pray for the departed soul to rest in peace

mdghani

 

 



 

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