Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Nice article sir, I m touring himachal to talk to students, teachers, police n other profsnls
Warm rgds
Ashok
Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

-----Original Message-----
From: Raj Srinivasan <rsrinivasan32@gmail.com>
Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:41:35
To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Sarbajit ji

May I join the dialogue as a member of a modest Gandhian group that
had initially started with the Stayagraha idea against the unbearable
curse of corruption which needs to start with internal cleansing and
perseverance .

As usual all our pleas were not acknowledged and repeated requests for
a meeting ignored.Yet thanks to Shambu ji a true old oak we plod on
and MGD & Anand ji is part of us

ON reflecting through the experience I have three comments on the
present discontent and what I see to be a just cause

1 We must acknowledge that peoples anger is not only against
corruption but corruption of the POWERFUL and the CONNECTED .In fact
small corruption is the poor mans substitute for not having a
connection to power
People are appalled and disgusted at the top getting away using the
clout and brazen mendacity characteristic of of present
rulers.Attention of Lokpal should remain focused at the top only.
2 for that reason distrust in the politicos is high for they have
stopped believing the political laments about how pervasive small
time endemic corruption is hurting the poor etc.All this is seen to be
crocodile tears ,a diversion to fritter away the anger and also pure
humbug -the bedst instance of the last is the Congress partys
constant clever maneuver to occupy any vacant high moral ground with
utmost alacrity
3 on the other hand NGO world must be wary of over extended action
and humbly realise that more
and more centralised SINGLE point solutions eg Jan Lok pal can work
out as bad as the disease itself .We need to acknowledge that many
variants must be tried in a country like ours.And remain humble and
sensitive above all to let people be and let them have agency
I see disturbing evidence to the contrary in some parts of Anna
/Ramdev groups behaviour and conduct It appears that many supporters
of recent focussed anti corruption mobilisation efforts are only dimly
aware that single solutions to complex problems of an urbanising
transitionla society can lead to unintended ego-totalitarian-tinpots
and adversarial civil strife
That is NOT Satyagraha
Remember good intent going astray
Remember Chauri chura
Remember Thermidor in the French Revolution


R Srinivasan

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Devasahayam
>
> The so-called anti-dowry / pro women laws are a double-edged sword which are
> being tremendously misused and we have no faith in them.
>
> In my religion / community (Brahmo Samaj) we do not take or accept dowry.
> Our wedding ceremonies are simple / austere and mostly take place in the
> same civil format specified in the Special Marriages Act before the Marriage
> Registrar. ie. in the presence of at least 2 or 3 witnesses and both
> families, the bride & groom publcily agree to marry each other with the
> blessing (non-financial) of both families and exchange garlands/rings. The
> actual ceremony is over in about 10 minutes - but can be extended if
> required with sermons / hymns which are not essential.to the ceremony
>
> It is said of my religion that we
> a) are Born like Hindus
> b) Marry like Muslims, &
> c) Divorce like Christians.
>
> One of our formely associated faiths (ie Arya Samaj) has a marriage law
> which is being tremendously misused. It is called the Arya Samaj Validation
> of Marriages Act 1939. This reprehensible Act is the cause of all broken /
> love / couirt marriages. which are run by network of advocates and fake Arya
> Samajes. This law is widely abused by bigamists and polygamists, and unlike
> all other prior laws applicable to Hindus which were repealed in 1956 when
> the "Hindu Code" (ie. thjose 5 or 6 laws for Hindus) came into force, this
> law was never repealed to legitimise the Bastardy within the Nehru-Gandhi
> parivar and allow their non-Hindu wives to become "Hindus" or not at the
> flick of a switch (OM-OFF-ON .. etc).
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Sarbajit,
>>
>> You are fond of simple solutions. I had mentioned some of them in my
>> interview excerpt.
>>
>> I will throw a challenge to the community of social and anti-corruption
>> activists with a one-point agenda. Can you do away with the social evil
>> called 'dowry system' which is the worst form of bribe/corruption prevalent
>> in every household and has been the cause for the devastation of many
>> families and the life/honour of their daughters? There are enough laws to
>> help you.
>>
>> M.G.Devasahayam
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Shri Anand
>>>
>>> I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain
>>> specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past /
>>> present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement
>>> of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular
>>> membership.
>>>
>>> Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The
>>> middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily
>>> IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially
>>> and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the
>>> politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens
>>> who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid
>>> losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower
>>> classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.
>>>
>>> In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is
>>> a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black.
>>> The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in
>>> all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the
>>> media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the
>>> problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it
>>> is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you
>>> dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which
>>> MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR
>>> will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR
>>> call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????
>>>
>>> Respectfully
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,
>>> >Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know
>>> > who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one
>>> > of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.
>>> >
>>> >My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With
>>> > my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption'
>>> > needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists
>>> > at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in
>>> > our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which
>>> > people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue.
>>> > Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through
>>> > under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property,
>>> > when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when
>>> > we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state
>>> > our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae
>>> > cases.
>>> >
>>> >Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the
>>> > personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to
>>> > ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to
>>> > speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and
>>> > have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a
>>> > self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.
>>> >
>>> >YP Anand
>>>  >
>>>
>>
>
>