Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"

IN RE OUR "ASMITA" AND HINDU IDENTITY....

HELLO EVERYBODY,



Over a period of time, a lot has been discussed about Hindu, Hinduism
and Hindu identity etc. forum.

Kindly read this argument with an open mind.

In Delhi, there was a death in my neighbourhood about a decade back.
Seeing a tent in front of a house, I had asked an old acquaintance as
to what happened? "A Hindustani died", pat came the answer. I was
shocked for a moment and asked him what did he mean by a "Hindustani"
and if he was not a "Hindustani". This old man was emphatic in his
answer saying "I am not a Hindustani". "Aap ko to asli meaning pata
nehin nan", he said. Curious, I asked to know more about it from him.
He said "people of low caste earlier were being referred to as
Hindustani".

Now, let us see what is the meaning of Hindu. Somebody has suggested
on this forum that the original word was from Persian language. Kindly
have a look at the meaning of word Hindu in Persian language. I am
sure you will get the meaning as "black, uncivilised, irreligious
etc".

Some historians say that Hindu word has been derived from Sindhu as
Aryans, who came from Persian side, could not pronounce Sindhu and Sh
was pronounced "Sh" as "Hh". Then Persia should have been pronounced
as PERHIA and not Persia. Now I put a question, is there any language
in the world at any part where the S" or Sh" is silent? It cannot be.
Because such a sound emerges when two sets of teeth in your mouth
crash with each other or tongue hits roof your mouth. There was a
senior IAS officer who had argued with me in Delhi that in Assamese
language, S remains silent. I said Hiteswar Saikia (former Chief
Minister of Assam) should have been called as Hitehwar Haikia.
Rubbish, is not it?


To the best of my knowledge, no historical account does support any
theory that the word is Hindu has been derived from Sindhu. But I
cannot say how such a rubbish argument had entered into the history
book.

Let us go back to 11th century. When Mamood of Ghazni had come to
attack Somnath temple (1015-1028 AD), his army had taken on the local
fighters calling the latter as Hindus. This is for the first time the
term Hindu was referred to by Alberuni, a traveller who had
accompanied Mahmood.

According to B R Ambedkar, the foreign invaders had for the purpose of
identifying non-muslims had called the Indian natives as Hindus.
Indian natives during the six hundred year's Muslim rule were to pay
Zijiya tax and therefore identified as Hindus being non-Muslims.

Hindu has never been referred to as a religion in the history, not has
it been referred to a great glorious culture in any of the ancient
text of India. A friend of mine, who has great allegiance to RSS
ideology, had asked me " what is our religion?" My view was, like in
western world, the faith system has been Christianity and Islam in
Arabian countries, India's faith has been "dharma". Religion is not
the English translation of word "Dharma". Dharma is the name of our
faith system. The beauty of this faith system is what ever comes out
of its contradiction again becomes a part of it. Budhism came out of
the faith system and again became part of it, Jainism came out of it
and against became a part of it. We do not consider Sikhism being out
of our faith system. We called Budha an incarnation of god. Even to
bring and end to hostility between Muslims and Non-Muslims, the Bhakti
movement had ushered in Dargha culture. So in Indian faith system
Dharma, there is no place of hatred. It is an ocean of love. Let us
not name it as Hinduism and give a contour to it. I feel, the great
Indian faith system had a name for thousands of years as Dharma.
Naming the faith system as Hinduism is a great disservice to our
Dharma.

Let us abide by our Dharma. It is all endearing, encompassing and
widest possible term of describing what we are and what we should be.
Our faith system Dharma is secular. I think Indian faith system
Dharma, not Hinduism, would help demolish the walls of hatred between
faith systems which have evolved primarily to keep the human behaviour
on the rails.

(MY INTENTION OF WRITING THIS PIECE IS NOT TO HURT ANY BODY. I WROTE
THIS KEEPING IN VIEW A GREATER NATIONAL INTEREST AS BHARAT IS ALSO A
HOME TO CRORES OF MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS. THERE ARE NO ENEMIES OF THIS
SOIL. LET US KEEP OUR INDIAN IDENTITY PARAMOUNT ABOVE OUR OTHER
IDENTITIES. '" LOVE YOUR NATION. BE A GOOD CITIZEN. THERE LIES THE
ANSWER.

With love

Biraja Mahapatra

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM, subash bahl <bahlsubash@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see many post from well meaning persons trying to give suggestions for
> taking the nation forward with least amount of conflicts and people living
> in harmony. IT IS AN UTOPIA. We cannot wish away the sway RELIGION has over
> the people. Also our society has not yet got over the divides caused by
> CASTE and CREED Way forward may be evolved by wide discussions among various
> religious heads instead of only the HINDU's just foregoing their identity
> without others showing any indication of any matching move.I am proud to be
> a HINDU following SNAAATAN DHARMA and worshipping IDOLS as physical
> representation of various devis and devtas .
> I am retd defence officer with 35 years of service during
> which We practised SARVDHARMA and APOLITICAL working. I have studied various
> religions wherein I have found many similarities. But in civil life I have
> seen that pamphlets circulated by some religions advocating superiority of
> their religion over others.Such ONE UPMANSHIP does not facilitate harmony
> and peace.Unless all mutually evolve a way forward, nothing worthwhile is
> going to happen.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Dr. NC Jain <j_nc2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree . Let us be called as Indian rather than Hindu, Muslim, etc.
>> Dr N C Jain
>> 17-4-13
>>
>>
>> From: Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com>
>> To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"
>>
>> every time a new topic of discourse begins,it may be prudent to see
>> how directly(and not through some circuitous manner) is it related to
>> the core objectives of the forum.Meandering and criss-cross dialogues
>> could hardly serve a good,much less great purpose of the forum.Every
>> one is,at the end of the day,back to square one.
>> spmathur
>>
>> On 3/29/13, Vijoy Ambasta <vijoy.ambasta@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Fellow countrymen
>> > Let us all define our Indianness instead of a Hindu, Christian, Muslim
>> > or
>> > Sikh. Let us define how an Indian needs to behave or live amicably
>> > across
>> > the length and breadth of the country. Let us get over parochialism and
>> > regionalism what is good for India has to be good for all areas. When we
>> > can use one currency , have one Armed Forces for the country, one
>> > national
>> > anthem, one national flag & emblem why do have any alternatives any
>> > where.
>> > Let us stop talking on the terms of religion or caste which will only
>> > cause
>> > our downfall as we have watched for over 50 years.
>> > ABOVE ALL LET US ALL TAKE PRIDE IN OUR INDIANNESS.
>> > Vijoy Ambasta
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deepak Verma
>> > <deepakmohan.verma@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don't get this discussion on Defination of Hindu. Our main motive is
>> >> to fight against CORRUPTION and we are arguing in definations and
>> >> reading something like number of children per family. and we called it
>> >> a IDEOLOGY of IAC, I mean just cut the crap please. If I am not wrong
>> >> then Our main agenda is to fight against curruption not just finding
>> >> same defination which ,might, create some religion differences in
>> >> society.
>> >>
>> >> OR If any one can please justify that where is the Corruption thing is
>> >> coming in this discussion then it would be better to understand.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 3/28/13, Varun Khajuria <khajuria.v@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > For god sake dont term "Bharat" Ram hanuman shiva as mythological if
>> >> > u
>> >> want
>> >> > to use these terms for sanatan dharm then use these terms for other
>> >> beliefs
>> >> > also dont be a hypocrate
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> >
>> >> > Varun
>> >> > On Mar 24, 2013 2:29 PM, "Navnith Krishnan" <navkris@hotmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Dear Sarbajit,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You will agree with me that the word Hindu and India are both
>> >> >> derived
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> the word Sindhu.The Persians used to broadly refer to those living
>> >> >> around the River Sindhu as Hindus.Since the river Sindhu or Indus is
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> Pakistan,by your theory is it not a fallacy to call our country as
>> >> India?
>> >> >> Ofcourse,Bharath is based on the mythological figure,Bharatha,who
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> great Emperor.But this name is recognized by the Constitution of
>> >> >> India,perhaps to highlight our great cultural heritage.We have
>> >> >> enough
>> >> >> issues already,so why waste time splitting our hairs about India and
>> >> >> Bharath.Let both unite us.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With regards to number of children,it is not a question of two
>> >> >> children
>> >> >> per man or per woman. Why Muslims are allowed to have a separate
>> >> personal
>> >> >> law in a so called cecular democracy..Why should they be allowed to
>> >> >> practice poligamy.Rajiv Gandhi did the biggwest blunder by getting
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> constitution amended to deny a poor Muslim woman alimony.Her rights
>> >> >> as
>> >> an
>> >> >> Indian citizen was thus denied.Perhaps BJP is the only party
>> >> >> demanding
>> >> >> common civil code.******
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *navnith*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:18:54 +0530
>> >> >> From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
>> >> >> To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear Navnith
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IAC is extremely focussed on 3 and only 3 words which are "India",
>> >> >> "Against", and "Corruption".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The BJP and Aam Aadmi Party etc is not at all concerned about
>> >> >> "India"
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> are only concerrnd about some mythical and non-existent "Bharat".
>> >> >> The
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> party which makes mention of India is the 'Indian" National Congress
>> >> (and
>> >> >> we all know how Indian that party is. So please rest assured that
>> >> >> IAC
>> >> >> will
>> >> >> eventually define "India" in a UNIFYING way which truly makes every
>> >> >> one
>> >> >> who
>> >> >> shall remain in our movement very happy and proud..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Once everyone in IAC becomes an "Indian" (as agreed and accepted) ,
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> shall unleash the power of AGAINST. because that needs hardly any
>> >> >> definition.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On population control, a simple question you can assist IAC on:-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If a monogamist Hindu family is ever limited to 2 children by law,
>> >> should
>> >> >> the family of a polygamist Muslim with 4 wives be limited to 2
>> >> >> children
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> 8 children ?
>> >> >> ,
>> >> >> Sarbajit
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Navnith Krishnan
>> >> >> <navkris@hotmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear Sarbajit,
>> >> >> Good, you are in the process of defining and clarifying IAC's
>> >> ideological
>> >> >> issues.Perhaps it may make IAC more focussed rather than making it a
>> >> >> platform for members to comment on every issue under the sun.
>> >> >> But do you think 'black money' and 'population control' are divisive
>> >> >> issues which should be frozen?.Do you think corruption is a
>> >> 'meaningless'
>> >> >> issue?It looks more like Congress 'ideology'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *navnith*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> **
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:02:57 +0530
>> >> >> From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear Major Sarwara etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IAC is now is the process of defining and clarifying certain
>> >> >> ideological
>> >> >> issues, and to see thereby which organisations can work with IAC and
>> >> vice
>> >> >> versa.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is not the old IAC where "all good people" came together on
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> simplistic (and meaningless) issue of corruption, and which old IAC
>> >> >> collapsed under the weight of its own ideological and egoistical
>> >> >> contradictions.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This IAC's platform and agenda is going to be clear, and its stand
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> various issues , including *religion which is a fountainhead of
>> >> >> corruption in India and is deeply embedded in our political and
>> >> >> economic
>> >> >> culture*, will be consistent.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IAC is determined to get as many of the troublesome and divisive
>> >> >> issues
>> >> >> frozen before we move forward with our campaign. Religion is only
>> >> >> one
>> >> of
>> >> >> them, "black money" is another, "population control" is a third etc
>> >> >> etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We are also encouraging everyone to leave IAC who is not prepared to
>> >> >> endure this painful learning process, or who has sympathy for the
>> >> >> ways
>> >> of
>> >> >> the old IAC and its past leaders.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm sorry to be so blunt, but its better to be disillusioned now
>> >> >> than
>> >> to
>> >> >> be disillusioned later.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It is also a mark of how seriously HRA takes this process that I am
>> >> >> personally tasked for answering all queries so that there is as
>> >> >> little
>> >> >> deviation as is possible, and since the time with us is so very
>> >> >> short.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Since our public list is open, vario0us outside entities are
>> >> >> "pinging"
>> >> >> apolitical IAC through the maliing list to see what we now are and
>> >> >> where
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> stand and where we are going.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sarbajit
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 3:16 PM, <vartika.journalist@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Everybody please pay attention to what Major D S Sarvana Very
>> >> >> rightly
>> >> >> said
>> >> >> ..
>> >> >> Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: sarwara.super@gmail.com
>> >> >> Sender: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
>> >> >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:12:52
>> >> >> To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>> >> >> Reply-To: sarwara.super@gmail.com
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Uf!what crap going on in IAC,every one is trying to show their
>> >> >> knowledge
>> >> >> to others on matters not concerned with IAC platform.Useless sub
>> >> >> being
>> >> >> discussed except corruption.Is deviation planned by vested
>> >> >> interests?......Major D S Sarwara
>> >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>> >> >> Sender: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
>> >> >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:11:46
>> >> >> To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>> >> >> Reply-To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Definition of "Hindu"
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Deepak Verma
>> >>
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