Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Col Nauni,

If you play the patriotism card with us to make your case we can easily trump with corruption and politicised Army cards

I can't possibly disagree with your list of 'shaheeds' and what the institution of the Army stand for.. It is the same concern for the INSTITUTION that causes me to speak out against the spiraling RAT-RACE for pensions encapsulated by OROP.

Do you not  sense that future govts will be so overwhelmed by burgeoning pension payments to veterans that they will be forced to CUT DOWN on the FUTURE manpower. Doesn't anybody teach basic maths like 1+1<>3 in the Army - or the laws of EXPONENTIATION?

Its the same kind of problem Japan faced with its pension scheme, the contributions from young workers in a highly automated robotised environment were insufficient for payments to retireees who were living longer and longer. The pension contributions from the young grew so large that employers could not afford to keep so many permanent employees leading to massive job cutbacks and increasing automation. Japan consequently had a huge population of unemployed youth caused by its bloated social security system skewed to keep the old alive.

Are faujis so self-centred nowadays that they can't see that this OROP agitation is inspired by vested interests who want to whittle down India's standing army and its biggest asset -- our soldiers. Have you ever wondered that Mr. Anil Ambani is now being encouraged to enter Defence production after mucking up every almost business he had turned his hand to ?

Beyond Col Ketchup I could have equally cited lesser known names like Brig/Maj.Gen/Lt.Gen S.K.Sahni who got promoted thrice using highly litigative tactics in Delhi High Court and misled many officers like Lt.Gen.Kishan Pal to recommend him as a jolly good fellow. And what to speak of Lt.Gen Dahiya who accused Gen Sahni of being out to fix him as tit-for-tat.

And how about Gen V.K Singh who supposedly tried to fix Gen DS Suhaag to ensure the line of succession for his own daughter's father-in-law Gen A.K.Singh to be next COAS ?

Anyone reading the judgments of service matters and CoIs for Armed forces will be amazed at the lengths "you people" will go to to get promoted to the General staff.

And how is it that Gen VK Singh never objected that Admiral Ramdas and other foreign financed veterans interceded on his behalf on the D-o-B issue. As far as we are concerned the whole bloody lot on both sides at the top were equally corrupt and selfish when it comes for ensuring "their" lines of succession and their pensions.

PS: I am sure that you also recall the insufferable Gen B.M Kaul and his forward policy 'qua' China which caused 1962 and so much loss of life, prestige and territory.

In such light  do you disagree that there should be a total separation of Army and politicians, and the highly politicised Generals and Admirals should be roundly denounced from within the services ? Do you not also agree that the procedure for selection of the service chiefs must be foolproof and ensure their autonomy and integrity ?

Sarbajit

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

India should be proud to have worthy sons like Sarabjit and now he has  the company of some more WORTHIES of Mother India. Prof Nataraj advising Brig Kishore-" not to demean yourself, patriotism and our country". I hope he understands what he is writing, demeaning in itself is extremely derogatory remark, he is trying to imply that any one asking for his due privileges is demeaning Patriotism and our country. He is challenging the bonafides of the Brigadier who has fought 2 Wars and served in inhospitable areas fighting insurgency. A very poor judgement on your part Professor. How would you like if I question you and your bretherans about what contribution you have made to the Country other than occupying AC rooms, attending conferences, reading a paper once in awhile which is in most cases a cut and paste from International journals and going to retire after 60 and may be 62 yrs. You are as ignorant about the Armed Forces as possibly I am in your area of work area. And wise people advise that in such cases silence is the best course of action. if you consider yourself someone worth his salt as respectable Prof. pl don't drag yourself unnecessarily in discussion where honorable people like Sarabjit use all kind of language and take the onus of protecting the interest of poor of mother India
Mr. Sarabjit your vision and sense of judgement could remember the misdeeds of one Ketch up Colonel and some unscrupulous senior officers involved in the Adarsh scam but either due to ignorance or deliberately you are forgetting the names of hundreds of Colonels and thousands of JCOS & OR who made ultimate sacrifices. Col Tarapore, Major Somnath Sharma, Major Saitan Singh; Lt Khetrapal, Capt Batra, Capt Talwar and hundreds of others who made the ultimate sacrifice and many others living with missing limbs. To the loyal sons of India and practical thinkers like you and Jha, all these officers and men were paid for the profession they voluntarily chose, so what-what is there to make a hero of them!!. And may be their fertile brains would even think that Col Tarapore'sTank was full of Ketch up which flowed from his blown up tank like blood, Hav Abdul Hamid's RCL was having Currency notes which the Pakistani's were after, Major Somnath Sharma (first PVC Posthumous of India) was fighting for saving Shrinagar with ultimate aim of doing the Apples and Saffron business, Cdr Mullah went down with Khukari in search of hidden treasure and Sqn Ldr Sandhu was killed while he was fooling around and showing off with his fighter and later some Ketch up Gp Capt recommended and got him the PVc- all farce that he went to protect the aircraft on the Air field sitting ducks!! So must be their hidden knowledge of these. The list of such SELFISH , self seeking Fauji's from all the three services is so long that it will take days together to compile it, and what for? To be ridiculed by a bunch self seeking egoists.

All the young people who join the Armed Forces must seek advice from you and your like minded brightest, most pragmatic thinkers of India for whom all others-the Military personnel, the elected Government, the reporters like Gul Panag are DUMB headed, liars and burden on this country which has 30% below poverty line, who are being looked after by Mr Sarabji, Jha and their clan. Poor Sarabjit and Jha are the most worthy sons of mother India, who will be saving huge amount by recommending to the Government not to give any benefits-Pension. Medical  and other facilities to Ex-Servicemen

or if given, propagate it as much in access to what India can afford.

Sarabjit, ou are not an IAS or proxy to any Govt, very fine , but as a common tax paying citizen understand the facts and details before making sweeping statements about the desirability of decent pay, Pension and perks to the Armed Forces Personnel. You are an intelligent thinker with an independent mind unlike some of those who are joining your band wagon with borrowed ideas. If you want to collect a group of such people and be their leader. Please think twice or many times, a leader in public life is also known by the kind of people he/she leads.

Best of luck and warm regards. Jai Hind.

Col Jagdish Nauni, Veteran

PS. By the way unlike the Armies of the advanced countries, we all-serving and retd Faujis also pay our Income Tax AND our right is to protect our motherland from any aggressor and our countrymen from any natural calamity. Very modest job unlike your high level public service.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:50 AM, satyendra jha <satyendrajha@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi friends

I have been going through the debate on OROP for some time and everybody is trying to outsmart each other . But the fact remains that country respects the armed forces for their contribution and keep on doing so till armed forces do not start considering them above all and placing their demands by threats and strikes ( though at present only by retired personnels) . Now let's look at the india's budgetary allocation for the armed forces which is far  more bigger than any other govt organizations and a major portion of the same goes into salaries and pensions and not much is left for upgradation and modernization. In a country like ours where more than 30 percent go below the poverty line if Rs 26 and Rs 32 per day is taken as the benchmark income for rural and urban area as given by the government , u can understand their plight . In light of this whether a higher pension is justified when a major portion of the civil society is deprived of this benefit. 

Our respected friends from the armed forces always talk of their sacrifice and it is not hidden from any one and that is why they command respect. But when you preferred uniform over others u already had the nation and sacrifice in mind so why remind . U r doing your job with perfection and so r others contributing (taxes)for the armed forces . However as a responsible citizen you have to come out and see how many people in this country have pay and perks offered the way it is for the armed forces. Healthcare one of the costliest burden on the old age civilians today is a nightmare but not for armed forces as there  are military hospital or a new govt scheme to take care, same is the case for other privileges for you including canteen facilities. The pay commissions compensates the govt employees but where r the schemes of pay revisions in private sectors and for poor masses and there r so  many privileges attached to the uniform with respect. Today's pay and perks are highly competitive in armed forces    and even the pensions are linked to compensate the increase in cost of living. Post retirement settlement schemes, priorities and preferences in allocations in PSU etc are also there. I see many retired persons employed at good positions if they are deserving .So if our friends wants to fight , sit on Jantar mantar it should be in the larger interest of the nation and masses and not for the benefit of self . please raise your voice against corruption, Wrongdoing etc , u will be more respected . Your joining the armed forces and pledging to serve does not come to an end once u retire so please keep fighting for the betterment without any expectation .

I must say sorry to my friends if I hv hurt their sentiments.

Thanks

 jha

On 01-Oct-2015, at 1:18 am, Randhir Sethi <shebon@gmail.com> wrote:

AS THEY SAY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS, SO LET ALL FAUJIS JUST IGNORE THE STATEMENTS BEING MADE BY THE LIKES OF MR SARABJIT , BHARAT BHUSHAN, KAPOOR ET ALL 

JAI HIND

R S S SETHI. 

AT THIS RATE THEY MAY SOONER OR LATER NOT HAVE A NATIONAL FLAG TO BE UNFURLED ON THE REPUBLIC OR INDEPENDENCE DAY

CHEERS TO THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015, PA Kumaran <pakumaran@gmail.com> wrote:

Mr Sarbajit,

We all have to stick to a minimum level of decency when we communicate. You cannot call names or accuse someone without any credence. Whatever said and done ................... you seem to have forgotten that the Defence Forces have been seeking  OROP since last 43 years.  It is the bureaucrats & politicians who, on the victory of the 1971 war, presented the Defence Forces with a reduction of pension (!!!) from 70 % to 50%, where as they helped themselves with an increase of pension from 30% to 50%. So who sowed the seed ? There are innumerable such examples where in Defence Forces were let down from generation to generations. Others could go on stirke/ hartal etc - where does the fouji go ? He is pushed towards the wall.

 You seem to be more obsessed with Defence Forces for getting "Pension" and that you are not getting it.

In any organisation there may by an odd person who may be a black sheep and because of him the organisation gets a bad name. You just mentioned two  ...imagine in a huge  organisation like Defence forces, an aberration also enquired into and the guilty punished. So let us not quote those.

Sir, going on a tangent, do you need Defence Forces at all ? Your aversion speaks all. Do you realize how dangerous the situation will be , when no one wants to join the Defence Forces. The cumulative effect of shortages in manpower will be only welcome by our adversaries . In this context where you stand ? In future, your own grand children will curse those who did not take care of the Defence Forces.

I just wanted to drive home some points. There are many more such injustices.

Suffice to say that in a democratic country like India, it is the right of the Defence Forces to fight for OROP (without diluting its contents)

Lastly, if I have hurt anyone by my utterances, it is only  to highlight the injustice that is being barraged on the defence forces.

With Regards,
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Brig Saha

It seems our veterans lose their ability to detect friend from foe
once they retire if you lot routinely dish out terms like "traitor" to
describe your channel hosts.

FYI, I am not a babu. Neither do I get any pension / salary from the Govt.

What "I" am is the poor fool who pays for all the worthless and
whining rascals hiding behind terms like patriotism and nationalism
for their greedy / selfish ends. I am the person who pays for  ketchup
colonels and their fake encounters. I am the person who pays for
Adarsh Housing scams. ...

You people were paid enough for any work you allegedly did while in
service. If you couldn't save while you were in service I fail to see
why we citizens should pay for your existence and your booze once you
retire. (NB: By "you" I mean each and every person who gets a pension
- starting from our worthless MPs)

I am sure that many ordinary citizens would say much the same thing
once we leave the hypocrisy behind.

Best regards
.
Sarbajit

On 9/27/15, kashi saha <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> Sarabjt,
> Why you donot you spk of the harm done by the your patriotic IAS super babus
> by blackmailing the Politicians. When  a person joins a service with certain
> terms and conditions through Gazette notification how can it be changed to
> down grade the same in pay and pension. All veterans and those who defended
> the nation till 1971, are all pre 1973 order issued removing the OROP and
> pension quantum( 70% of last pay drawn). Those are people fighting in
> peaceful manner trying to bring sense into these people in power.
> You are asking us to fight with you( It seems from your comment you are one
> of those glorified Babu  ) to bring down your self enhanced privileges, why
> is our job you deserve it or not you convince the Govt. what we are
> interested is a parity you increase yours increase ours too. You do not do
> any thing extra to contribute to the nation. You do your bit and we do our
> bit. If you fail we take on the job even if it is messed up so that the
> nation do not suffer. and if we fail in our job you can only suck your
> thumb. What you IAS/IFS and Political Nexus have done so far:
> 1. In 1971,You messed up the with your foreign policy with Bangladesh after
> the liberation. And it is a thorn on our back, a small helmet for terrorist
> and entry point of CFCurrency and terrorist . A proactive policy could have
> avoided all this
> 2. After 1971 You messed up with your policy against Pak even after we had
> handed over a trophy of more than 90K Pak POW., you could have bargained all
> our POW and POK.
> 3. In 1947 You messed up the Kashmir by asking us to Ceasefire when we were
> in the verge of taking over now so called POK
> 4. Twice we took over Strategic passes in Kashmir you forced us to hand them
> over now the Chinese with their armed forces have a strategic road to PAK.
> 5. Srilanka you created a problem and now we are loosing it to China.
> 6. Myanmar oil pipeline to China again failed in your foreign policy.
> 7. Internally Naxal, NE interstate relationship, sharing of water allocation
> of development fund and projects , you failed every where.
> Why IAS?? to protected constitution at national interest irrespective of
> party in power, advise the politicians who are masses rep against
> unconstitutional, antinational actions. Look into your self are doing that.
> How can any one justify subsidized food for the MPs, pensions with OROP
> principle for the MP with even one election win, There are few Khemkas and
> Chatuvedis but majority of you are self serving un patriot, with yes sir
> attitude for kushy transfer Children studying abroad and after 60 years Apex
> scale pension and member of a commission.
> You are the traitors and need to be sorted out not the politicians.
> Jai Hind         Brigadier Kashi Nath Saha  Mob: 9810728364 Email:
> knsaha44@yahoo.com

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Re:[IAC#RG]

Dear Ms. Teesta Setalvad

We are equally happy to know that such a prominent activist as yourself has volunteered to discuss, formulate and take matters forward on such an important issue which is dear to our hearts..

FYI, the India Against Corruption andolan is firmly

a) Secular

b) Non-political

c) Opposed to all forms of foreign interference in India's affairs and the foreign funding of so-called civil society quislings,

d) Patriotic, ie. dedicated to defending freedom, as described in the Declaration of Arbroath

"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

We look forward to seeing the progress of your actions.

Sarbajit

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Teesta Setalvad <teestateesta@gmail.com> wrote:

We need to have a mass inter active education and history programme, encourage debates and discussion s
m in east UP at the moment
Happy to discuss and formulate and take things forward

Teesta Setalvad

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

OROP  By Rano Dayal

देशवासियो !! समझ  लीजिये -


OROP  न मांग ,न भीख ,न है दया ,
न अमीरो  की धनराशी है ,न गरीबो की  माया ,
यह  मेरे सैनिको  का हक है ,उन्होंने  खुद है कमाया!!

जब यह सैनिक सरहद पर जाते है ,
इनके भी पाँव  कापते है ,
इनको भी अपना  परिवार याद आता  है,
पर यह माँ- माँ  करके  टेसुए  नहीं बहाते।
यह हिन्दुस्तान  की रक्षा के लिए ,
और आप  भारतवासियो के विशवास पर ,
अपने परिवार का कल दाव  पर  लगाजाते है।

आज जब इनकी बारी आई ,तो क्यों सरकार को सांप सूंघ गया ,
मीडिया जो ट्रांसपेरेंसी  की बाते करता है ,जाने किस बिल में घुस गया।
दरअसल  यह भारत का दुर्भाग्य है -
यहाँ  जब  पोलटिशन  धुन बजाता  है , तभी मीडिया गीत गता है।
इंदरानी, शीना की माँ  थी ? यां शीना इंदरानी की माँ थी ?
इस चर्चा  को तो प्राइम टाइम पर चलाता  है ,
अपने देश का सैनिक सड़को पर है, इसे दर्शाने से घबराता  है।

सैनिक जब फ़ौज में होता है कब सोचता है
मुझे P M R , लेना है के नहीं ?
मै सरहद पर जाऊ ,के नहीं ?
मुझे OROP  मिलेगा के नहीं ?
खुदा के वास्ते ,यह ज़हर मेरी फ़ौज में न घोलिये ,
भारत को मेहंगा पड़ेगा -
मेरी फ़ौज की एकता से न खेलिये।

कहते है, OROP -इम्प्लीमेंट करदिया ,
भाई और भाई के बीच गड्ढा  खोद दिया ,
OROP  को समझ कर भी, न-समझ कर दिया ,
आखिर ,डिवाइड  एंड रूल  (divide and rule)की पौलिसी  को इस सरकार ने भी अपना लिया ,
और इसका  घुन  फ़ौज में भी लगा दिया।

साहब ५६  की छाती रखते हो ,बड़ी अच्छी  बात है ,
पर ज़ुबान  की कदर करना भी सीखो।
अपने इस गंदे पॉलिटिक्स के चककर  में , मेरी फ़ौज की इज़्ज़त को न रौंदो।

और जंहा  तक रहा OROP  का सवाल ,
वो तुम्हे देना ही पड़ेगा।
क्युकि OROP -चंद सिक्के नहीं  है ,इज़्ज़त है !
अगर सैनिक मर्यादा में रहता है ,और सभ्य  भाषा बोलता है ,
ये, हिन्दुस्तान  की इज़्ज़त के लिए अगर सर कटा सकता है ,
तो  इसे कमज़ोर मत समझो।
बस इतना फर्क है -
ये यहाँ भूखा-प्यासा बैठ  कर भी ,
फ़ौज और हिंदुस्तान की इज़्ज़त को अपनी इज़्ज़त से अधिक तोलता है।

* रानो  दयाल *

Sent from my Samsung device

-------- Original message --------
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Date: 06/10/2015 9:44 am (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Wing Commander Chadda,

I request you to re-read my emails on this subject. Our concerns with
OROP are with ALL such types of pension schemes where the  politicians
are spending / pledging the wealth / defence of the future children of
India on today's recklessness.

FYI: I was born in the Base Army Hospital at Delhi Cantt - a Military
Hospital - and I was delivered by Col Chapekar, AMC, a member of the
well known Chapekar family of patriots. My delivery fees and hospital
charges were paid from my grandfather's meagre military pension.

So it is wrong to say that I crib about fauljis getting pension or
treatment in Military Hospitals post retirement.

sincerely

Sarbajit

On 10/3/15, Sk Chadda <chaddask@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jhaji,
> Sarbajit and others who are feeling bad about OROP have absolutely no idea
> about the basics of OROP. They crib for everything the faujis are getting
> as their entitlement, after retirement. Medical services and Military
> Hospitals for armed forces pensioners is very painful for Sarbajit & co.
> Gentlemen, for your kind information, the retired armed forces personnel
> avail medical facilities under the scheme known as *ECHS.* This means
> Ex-servicemen Contributory Health Scheme. Retired personnel become member
> of this scheme with their share of contribution. Talking about canteen
> facilities, Nothing is contributed by the Govt,or subsidized. This is a
> system run by the Defence Services personnel, efficiently, with least or no
> corruption keeping profitability to the standards laid down by the Ministry
> of Defence. Employees working in the CSD outlets are paid from the profit
> earned by the canteens. The canteens are operated on "rate contract basis".
> That is how the things are comparatively cheaper in the canteen and not
> because anything is subsidized like Parliament Canteens.
> Now coming to OROP, it is not something like a person having access to a
> politician makes the politician drunk and gets a promise of OROP. What do
> you think, Congress Govt agreed for OROP without any base? Koshiyari
> commission appointed by the Parliament forcefully recommended OROP. It is
> only babus who suffer from inferiority complex want to settle the
> score with Defence Forces. Do you think Modiji during his campaign in last
> general election, had no knowledge about OROP. He promised for OROP as he
> was fully convinced about the demand. The demand for OROP has been accepted
> by two different governments, the PM has announced it twice from Lal Qila
> and as on date no Governmental functionary contradicts. On one hand we take
> pride as the biggest democracy of the world and on the other hand the issue
> which affects over 3 million bona fide citizen is being handled most
> undemocratically. Mr Sarbajit, no one cares for your  useless, baseless
> cries. You are not running the Govt, and you are in no capacity to even
> propose anything except cribbing. This matter is being talked at much
> higher level than you can even think of.
>

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Re:[IAC#RG]

We need to have a mass inter active education and history program.me, encourage debates and discussion s
m in east UP at the moment
Happy to discuss and formulate and take things forward

Teesta Setalvad

On Oct 6, 2015 9:17 AM, "navaneethan krishnan" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

Dear Ms Seema

I live in Chennai Tamilnadu. I agree with Mr Ratnakar & Mr Ashok Kumar. Let us, as intelligentsia moderate the situation to bring peace and sanity in the minds of of people with extreme views.

The fundamental problem is education of the masses irrespective their religion.  Education goes hand in hand with prosperity. Prosperity is associated with the family size. Particularly our states of UP and Bihar are falling way behind in these aspects. 

 It is the abundant duty of all of us to educate the masses with whatever means available with us to control the family size & educate them including setting example.

Our people will teach a lesson to fundamentalists at both side of the fence  in future  elections.

Regards

 

Navanithakrishnan

---

From: Ratnakar Gedam <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; "seemamustafa@gmail.com" <seemamustafa@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 3 October 2015 8:20 AM
Subject: Re:[IAC#RG]

Dear Ms Seema,

Your article is very extraordinary. The categorization of Indian Muslims into Dr. Kalam and Dawood is though a very much simplification but in realty both are to be treated as exception. Dr. Kalam was a technocrat in the government service but when NDA government was in power he too got involved in anti-congress politics and that paid him dividend. A common man on the street or people below poverty line or farmers or manual labourers or even other profession people cannot be compared with him, as he being technocrat, bureaucrat and willing politician anti congress, he was of different genre. Also he had no family or children to look after or to strive for their education, job, arranging, marriage and ensure success career of children r grandchildren, so philanthropic thoughts were obvious choice for him being free from family affairs, worried etc.

Dawood as media projects is underworld don. He has different agenda perhaps self style king of underworld activities, earn wealth for self through all activities prohibited by law, he has perhaps backing of anti-India forces. Despite all these attributes none of Indian Muslims either favour, support, admires, or follow him as ideal figure.

I reside in Ghaziabad where large number of Muslims reside. What I could notice most or Muslims are neutral to religion based politics. They neither of category of Dr. APJ Kalam nor Dawood. Mostly peace loving and concerned with their own routine activities. Indeed politicians take advantages of their both simplicity and dependent on government's welfare schemes. No peace in the society exist unless people are peace loving and law abiding. Any one if follows extreme path there is likely disturbance in peace loving society. The politicians who try to emotionally exploit religious sentiment always target vulnerable youth not of the quality either of Dr. APJK or Dawood but who are rowdies, rouge, unemployment, can be exploited by paying little money or by assuring some thing they cannot achieve in normal course, etc. Usually those are of different categories of people or creature of their own ambitions or slave of own thinking which may be anti-Hindu and anti-Muslim stub born, etc.

Nevertheless you skill of writing article and expressing thoughts lucidly. Writing has very strong effect and it is said pen is mightier than sword or can easily spark violence, therefore, be careful in selecting words and sentences that appeal peace than exploit already vulnerable situation or add ghee to fire. Best luck, and good wishes!                 

 

Dr. Ratnakar Gedam  

On Friday, October 2, 2015 9:31 PM, Seema Mustafa <seemamustafa@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you. Of course I know that, and guess thats what gives us some hope.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:00 AM, ashok kumar <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

Seems Mustafa , kudos to you for bringing it all out so lucidly.                                                    Like all Muslims in India are not "Dawood " variety , all Hindus aren't  hardcore hindutva fundamentalists either. And this I say as a proud , practising Hindu from the heartland , U.P.  Please rest assured that I don't represent the minority but the majority amongst Hindus though we may  have differing  eating preference or praying methodology than yours. So what ? You are as much an Indian as    me or any Sikh , Christian  or a Parsi  etc.  Every Dadri or Muzaffar Nagar shames and saddens us as much . It  also alarms us as much. I don't have  the gift which the Almighty has blessed you with , to express my feelings adequately in words. Hope you understand my pain , anguish and sorrow .           Ashok  Kumar.

---

From: Seema Mustafa
Sent: ‎01/‎10/‎2015 22:36
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: [IAC#RG]

• 
  POLITICS
• BORDER
• OPINION
• SOUTH ASIA
• WORLD
• GENDER
• YOUNG CITIZEN
• LIFE
• THU, OCT 1, 2015

THE RSS/BJP MESSAGE TO MUSLIMS IN INDIA TODAY

SEEMA MUSTAFA Wednesday, September 30, 2015

NEW DELHI: It was a systematic communal campaign in Dadri, that precedes acts of violence always. First a calf was reported missing, and a campaign unleashed that basically spread rumours linking the calf to eating beef. When the tension reached prescribed levels, a temple in Dadri announced that a particular family--- Muslims of course--- was eating, after keeping, beef in their home. And barely before the echo of the announcement had subsided, a mob attacked the house of Mohammad Akhlaq, in the village in Dadri, pulled him out and beat him to death with bricks. His 22 year old son was also attacked, and is presently battling for his life in a hospital. The mob attacked their grandmother, and tried to molest the women in the house. The family is completely traumatised, terrified and currently praying for the young son's life. 

In terms of numbers, always very important for a statistic obsessed government, only one man has died so far. But in terms of impact, the incident has rung alarm bells across the country being reported in the global media at some length. And as the Muzaffarnagar violence at the time of the last Lok Sabha elections had shown, corroborated by subsequent communal incidents, the new strategy of those seeking to divide India on communal lines is to minimise deaths, but to exaggerate impact. Be it in the form of large scale displacement of the minorities, or widespread fear. 

In the Dadri attack the intention was not displacement, but to generate fear, to terrify. Hence the singling out of the one family, and the brutal attack where Akhlaq was killed without mercy. Do not eat beef is the ostensible message. The real message is: you are second class citizens, so you will do what you are told in India. 

So what are Muslims being told in India? But before that the stereotype which is fed by an ignorant, complicit media; goes largely unchallenged by the so called regional parties as they neither have the cadres nor the organisation to do little more than listen; and that is slowly being injected as a poisonous venom into society at every available opportunity, borrowing also from the US led campaign against Muslims across the world. 

1. Muslims in India are a monolith and hence dangerous; 

2. At best they are of two types: the APJ Abdul Kalam variety or the Dawood Ibrahim kind. And the second are in the majority, hence have to be hunted out before they hurt others; 

3. They are influenced greatly by the extremist politics of the terror groups in Pakistan and West Asia; 

4. They are growing rapidly and pose a challenge to the stability of India; 

5. They work against the cultural ethos of India, as they eat beef, take away our daughters, are aggressive in following their religion, and hence a threat to Hinduism; 

In this discourse there is no room for the reality. That Muslims are not a monolith, and are as culturally different as all other Indians; that they are largely liberal, even if they are religious as are non-Muslims in India; that they have shunned extremist politics to a point where they vote always for the secular option and not for the kinds of Owaisi, or the Jamaat e Islami in elections; that they have done nothing, repeat nothing, to be branded anti-national; that they too do not eat beef, and are secular and Indian as the last Indian. 

And hence through the systematic, crafted, manipulated communal incidents come the many messages. Muslims are being told very deliberately, and through violence: 

1. Do not marry outside your religion. The entire 'love jihad' campaign launched in Uttar Pradesh in particular by the RSS affiliates was directed at invoking terror through deliberate attacks on Hindu-Muslim couples, and on the families of the Muslim young people so involved, making it clear that this will not be tolerated; 

2. Do not eat meat or beef. The central government itself passed an order against the export of beef. The Maharashtra government has gone many steps further. This should have been a message to all Indians, but through the campaign and now Akhlaq's murder it has been demonstrated that the defaulters are Muslims. Hence Muslims must follow the food code or suffer the consequences, as posts on the social media by self-acknowledged Hindutva acolytes profess in language that is abusive and vitriolic. 

3. Do not live in cosmopolitan colonies, move into ghettos. Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Delhi have managed to make this a rule with most of Gujarat covered, and other cities and states following. Muslims do not easily get rented accommodation in these cities, and are also not allowed to buy property easily by the residents associations. 

4. Do not become too successful economically. The communal violence has been increasingly targeting Muslim businessmen, with shops being specifically targeted.In fact the Congress government in Maharashtra also fed into this by unleashing a wave of terror against Muslim professionals, many of whom were arrested on suspicion of having "terror links.' While some were released after months and years, there are many languishing in jail for crimes that local lawyers have described as concocted. 

5. And speak only when you are asked to, actually not at all. This is the message coming out of a major attack on Muslim writers, academics, intelligentsia on the social media where trolls describing themselves as bhakts of PM Narendra Modi, Hindutva acolytes and carrying profile pictures of angry gods literally abuse and threaten any one writing under a Muslim name, questioning their patriotism, their religion and their identity. In fact Muslims are repeatedly reminded when they share in democratic debate, that they should remember how other countries ---Pakistan for instance---treats its minorities, and should thus follow a path of caution. 

The campaign is virulent and relentless. And political parties in states going to the polls in particular are now feeling this pressure and re

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Seema Mustafa

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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Wing Commander Chadda,

I request you to re-read my emails on this subject. Our concerns with
OROP are with ALL such types of pension schemes where the politicians
are spending / pledging the wealth / defence of the future children of
India on today's recklessness.

FYI: I was born in the Base Army Hospital at Delhi Cantt - a Military
Hospital - and I was delivered by Col Chapekar, AMC, a member of the
well known Chapekar family of patriots. My delivery fees and hospital
charges were paid from my grandfather's meagre military pension.

So it is wrong to say that I crib about fauljis getting pension or
treatment in Military Hospitals post retirement.

sincerely

Sarbajit

On 10/3/15, Sk Chadda <chaddask@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jhaji,
> Sarbajit and others who are feeling bad about OROP have absolutely no idea
> about the basics of OROP. They crib for everything the faujis are getting
> as their entitlement, after retirement. Medical services and Military
> Hospitals for armed forces pensioners is very painful for Sarbajit & co.
> Gentlemen, for your kind information, the retired armed forces personnel
> avail medical facilities under the scheme known as *ECHS.* This means
> Ex-servicemen Contributory Health Scheme. Retired personnel become member
> of this scheme with their share of contribution. Talking about canteen
> facilities, Nothing is contributed by the Govt,or subsidized. This is a
> system run by the Defence Services personnel, efficiently, with least or no
> corruption keeping profitability to the standards laid down by the Ministry
> of Defence. Employees working in the CSD outlets are paid from the profit
> earned by the canteens. The canteens are operated on "rate contract basis".
> That is how the things are comparatively cheaper in the canteen and not
> because anything is subsidized like Parliament Canteens.
> Now coming to OROP, it is not something like a person having access to a
> politician makes the politician drunk and gets a promise of OROP. What do
> you think, Congress Govt agreed for OROP without any base? Koshiyari
> commission appointed by the Parliament forcefully recommended OROP. It is
> only babus who suffer from inferiority complex want to settle the
> score with Defence Forces. Do you think Modiji during his campaign in last
> general election, had no knowledge about OROP. He promised for OROP as he
> was fully convinced about the demand. The demand for OROP has been accepted
> by two different governments, the PM has announced it twice from Lal Qila
> and as on date no Governmental functionary contradicts. On one hand we take
> pride as the biggest democracy of the world and on the other hand the issue
> which affects over 3 million bona fide citizen is being handled most
> undemocratically. Mr Sarbajit, no one cares for your useless, baseless
> cries. You are not running the Govt, and you are in no capacity to even
> propose anything except cribbing. This matter is being talked at much
> higher level than you can even think of.
>

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Major S'ab

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire

To settle your various confusions --> Our movement has nothing to do
with Bhopal or 1984. We arose in the context of Common Wealth Games
scams of 2010, and we played our part in getting at least some of
those scamsters eventually prosecuted. Also, we are an anti-corruption
movement and not a human rights movement. Furthermore, we are focused
on remedying larger systemic issues and not the cases of corruption on
behalf of individuals.

Sarbajit

On 10/2/15, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr Sarbajit
>
> One with common sense can easily see that Bernard Shaw is right and Samuel
> Johnson is wrong. Either he doesn't know what patriotism means or he has
> made patriots of scoundrels!
>
> Any two wrongs may not make a right but then there are two things: the
> first wrong has be acknowledged and corrected and secondly, sometimes
> atleast two wrongs do make a right!
>
> Btw, now that you are so vociferous about rights and wrongs, may I know
> what you and your org has been doing in the case of victims of Bhopal and
> 1984 riots, just to quote two well known cases of human rights violations
> in the history of such violations all over the world?
>
> ravi
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 2:05 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Major (Retd.) Ravi
>>
>> My quotes are exactly as stated and without distortions. Since you
>> have confined yourself to only one of my cited quotes "Patriotism is
>> the last refuge of scoundrels" and dismissed the others with sweeping
>> generalisations, let me respond as follows,
>>
>> The phrase "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed
>> to Samuel Johnson (b. 1709 - d. 1784), whereas the phrase "Politics is
>> the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed to George Bernard Shaw
>> (b.1856 – d. 1950). A difference of approx. 150 years, and it is
>> crystal clear which phrase came first.
>>
>> Hence your argument is as fundamentally flawed as the present OROP
>> demand.
>>
>> Unfortunately, a completely misguided section of publicity and
>> politically inclined veterans are intent upon permanently damaging
>> India's FUTURE Armed Forces (and its fighting capabilities) with their
>> PAST demands. I don't want to elaborate on this in the present
>> surcharged environment because most veterans posting here are not
>> prepared for balanced dialogue with PATRIOTS like ourselves on FACTS.
>>
>> PS: Many frauds were played on our 'faujis' over the decades, but 2
>> wrongs do not make a right.
>>
>> Sarbajit