Re: [IAC#RG] OUR INDIA NEEDS TO BE ETERNALLY SECULAR

Mr Ganguli doesnot seem to have seen my mails -  I would reproduce below some of my earlier mails on the same forum which may try to answer his queries -

29th Feb- "While there may be no doubt that CAA is constitutionally valid. However, it may be worth noting that agitating ladies in Delhi/UP are not foreigners who may benefit out of the anti CAA agitation.  

As can be seen from the interviews of agitating people by the media, agitation seems to have been born out of mistrust of the Government's intentions. This distrust seems to have been formed by repeated speeches of the leaders of ruling party threatening the people of minority religion as also discrepancy between these speeches from top leaders, which the Goverment has failed to clarify inspite of repeated requests of agitators. It may be noted that Govt leaders have spoken in election speeches and in gatherings of immigrants of majority community regarding benefits to majority community with CAA, they have almost been no initiative to speak to the gatherings of agitators to reassure them. Format of NPR has further created doubts in the minds of illiterate/farm labourers/ daily wagers etc of minority community, who do not know their own birthday, what to speak of place of birth and birthday of their parents. While the same is the case with their brothers of majority community of the same level, the later get covered by CAA and therefore have nothing to worry about. Evidently, it is for this reason, that Bihar Govt has decided to delete these columns to create trust of the minority community. From the statements of agitating ladies, who seem to be aware of implications, it seems that if the Central Govt takes the same decision as taken by Bihar and clarifies the contradictory statements about nation vide NRC, agitations will disappear." 

!st March - "It is true that leaders have repeatedly said that 'no Indian Citizen' will be adversely effected. However the whole objective of NPR/NRC is to determine who is the Indian Citizen. Interviews of agitating women on TV indicate that, that is where the distrust has come in, as the underprivileged feel that this exercise  is to take away their citizenship as they may not have papers being asked for as per newspaper reports."

2nd March - "You may be right that opposition parties have vested interest in fuelling the mistrust. But the Govt and the ruling party also have not done any spadework to remove that mistrust. They have no dialogue with the agitating people, they do not have representatives of the minority community in their party who can act as intermediaries. Ruling party's effort has been mainly to address and to tell the majority community that what is being done is good for the members of majority community. Action of Govt. has been mainly to ignore, disperse or arrest the agitators."

R.N.Malhotra 

On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 03:59:09 PM GMT+5:30, Anand Gangoli <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

You are right. I have not seen the earlier mail stressing the point. It is possible that I was not on the circulation list earlier. But now that I have somehow come on the circulation list, I feel I am entitled to have my say.

Earlier contributors  have rightly expressed deep anguish towards the loss of life and property resulting from the riots related to the opposition to CAA. Clearly there have been excesses from both sides. There is no doubt that in retrospect we can suggest many ways in which the government and the police could have responded to the problem and minimised the damage. But the fact remains that it was the opposition to CAA that was the primary  cause of the riots/ loss of life and damage to public and private property. Considering what the CAA specifically  says, was such violent opposition justified or was it politically motivated? What exactly are the provisions of that CAA that would justify such violence? Those opposing the CAA must be specific rather than make vague allegations about the act being communal and anti Muslim.

Jai Hind

Anand Gangoli

On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, Radha Krishnan RN <rnrkrish@gmail.com> wrote:

I think that you have not seen the earlier mail stressing the same point.

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 07:07, Anand Gangoli <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net > wrote:

I am entirely in agreement with Mr Ramesh Bhatia. India is a secular
state and I am sure that this makes all of us proud. The unfortunate
events in the recent past related to the opposition to the CAA made me
wonder whether we are  a secular state only on paper.
The first step was to try and understand what the CAA is about and
what exactly is  objectionable in the CAA .
 I found that the Text  of Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2019  is easily
available on google. After reading it carefully , what I understood
is, that this Amendment has reduced the total period of residence
required for grant of Indian citizenship in case of Hindus, Sikhs
Christians, Buddhists, Jains, and Parsis; who are citizens of
Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangla Desh, to five years , instead  of 11
years as had been the case earlier. I did not find any  mention of
Muslims anywhere in this amendment.  They remain eligible for Indian
citizenship after 11 years- the same as it has been ever since 1955.
The Amendment essentially puts non Muslims on a (relatively) fast
track if they are seeking Indian citizenship, but not the Muslims.
Before this Amendment, as far I know, no Muslim from Pakistan, Bangla
Desh or Afghanistan- all Islamic countries, had made a case that 11
years is too long a period to wait for grant of Indian citizenship.
What has changed now? Are the Muslims from our neighbouring Islamic
countries now really looking for Indian citizenship on fast track? Are
Muslims becoming victims of religious persecution in our neighbouring
Islamic countries? And also, why have minorities in neighbouring
Islamic Countries been given an option to get Indian citizenship on
fast track? Could it be to give them relief from religious persecution
in Islamic countries?
Whether or not religious minorities are being persecuted as a
government policy is very difficult to establish by reports of riots,
destructions of mosques/temples/churches. Reports of such incidents
are influenced by the biases of the reporters and journalists. A more
reliable basis to form opinion would be to see whether a communities
have prospered.

In  West Pakistan (Now Pakistan)   Muslims population  has remained at
about 96.5%. In Bangladesh (after 1971) the Muslim population has
increased from about 78% to 91%.In  Afghanistan the Muslim population
has remained more than 99% over the years. Clearly Muslims are not
suffering from religious persecution in Islamic countries! Has CAA
erred by not giving them an option for Indian citizenship on fast
track?

Coming to the religious minorities in Islamic states.  Are religious
minorities being persecuted in our neighbouring Islamic states? Do we
really need a proof of that ? None of our Islamic neighbours even
pretend to respect other religions or consider them to be equal to
Islam. We are all aware of the barbarous blasphemy laws in Pakistan.
Has CAA erred by giving religious minorities in Islamic Countries an
option for fast track for Indian citizenship to escape religious
persecution?
I think those opposing CAA need to specify  exactly what it is that
are they objecting to in the CAA, and what  they find communal, if we
are to believe that the objections are not politically motivated.

Jai Hind
Anand Gangoli






















On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:16 PM Ramesh Bhatia
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net > wrote:
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ramesh Bhatia <bhatia.aeee@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 at 13:22
> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] OUR INDIA NEEDS TO BE ETERNALLY SECULAR
> To: <airesrodrigues1@gmail.com>
>
>
> ADEHERENCE TO SECULARISM
>
> Secularism enshrined in our constitution is very laudable and our leaders who set forth it were great. They were very forward looking and interested in making India a great country. The problem now is that our present leaders are just politicians and pygmies compared to those leaders.
>
>
> With these politicians who are only interested in winning the next election and ready to throw overboard all their principles, how do we adhere to all jewels which our constitution contains? Unfortunately, all our leaders in the last few decades from all sides of political spectrum are much the same. If Congress kept tilting towards some minorities, BJP tilts towards majoritarianism. Regional parties are no better with their respective tilts towards their vote banks like DMK/ADMK in Tamil Nadu, TMC in Bengal, Samajwadi Party in UP etc with scant regard for overall good.
>
>
> It is said that people get governance which they deserve. So do we have to bear with the government of the day because we did elect them? If not, the question before us is how we as people we can elect leaders who are true followers of constitution. While I am very optimistic I can see that it will take a long time (perhaps not in our life time) that India will see that maturity and ideals.
>
>
> A pessimistic view would be that even the oldest democracy like US has not reached that ideal which we are interested in, because even the governments there have sacrificed so many of their defence personnel and spent millions of dollars for highly controversial decisions taken by them.
>
>
> I would welcome your suggestions.
>
>
> Bhatia
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 at 14:07, Aires Rodrigues <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net > wrote:
>>
>> The so many precious lives and enormous property destroyed in those organized riots in Delhi is outrageous. Despite thousands of calls having been made to the Police and Fire Officials seeking help the authorities on political diktats chose to look the other way while lives were being lost and property destroyed. The worst sectarian violence for decades. Mosques, schools, homes and shops were set on fire and innocent worshippers attacked.
>>
>> What is very much disturbing is that thousands of the young children in Delhi will now have no school to go to as their Temples of learning have been ransacked and destroyed in broad day light. Let our thoughts and concern be with those young helpless kids. What is further disturbing is that India's highest shrine of Justice remained helpless in that carnage that was going on in its very neighborhood.
>>
>> There can be no room whatsoever for politics of hate and the current divisive atmosphere is so very disturbing. There can also be no space at all for intolerance. The long term implications of what is currently going on across our India is so dreadful.
>>
>> Sustainable development, and vital services like hospitals, schools, electricity, water, roads for the benefit of the people matter far more to the populace than destructive divisive politics of hate, religious or communal divide and the deliberate segregation of people based on arbitrary criteria. People are justified to treat such callous moves as a deliberate distraction from the harsh reality of the poor performance of the rapidly faltering economy.
>>
>> Our fundamental right to freedom of speech and the very sacred right to dissent in the world's largest democracy can never ever be compromised.  India's very secular fabric needs to be preserved at all costs. Our great country should forever thrive on the concept of Unity in Diversity which our nation was always proud of. United we stand and Divided we fall!
>>
>> Let us all very unitedly appeal to our Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Home Minister Amit Shah to please lay to eternal rest that very controversial, divisive and needless CAA/NRC and NPR that critics say is an effort to tear at the fabric of India's secular identity. Let us all work together to ensure that Peace and Understanding prevails while ensuring that our great India attains its long overdue status of a Super Power. Toiling towards the much needed recovery of the country's currently extremely faltering economy should be our one and only top priority.
>>
>> Government has a fundamental duty enshrined in the Constitution to ensure that all its citizens are protected irrespective of their caste, creed, race or political affiliation and to project India as a global superpower and a bastion of peace and harmony and not a bedrock of religious tensions and persecution of minorities.
>>
>>
>> Aires Rodrigues
>>
>> Advocate High Court
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>>                          Or
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>>
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