The statement 'When people lose faith in (our) judiciary, consequences can be alarming' is highlighting another serious concern supposedly afflicting our governance, but is this not another reflection on our thinking ? We must first give serious thought to our own deficient thinking and actions, each and every one of us, before shooting off our mouths to blame 'someone' else. Do right, do good, don't lie, don't cheat, and hear I would like to repeat my advise, ' Care for your sisters, live clean, think honest, do honest.' Only those who think honest and do honest can critisize misdemeanours.--------Hirak Nag.
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/6/15, ravindra malhotra <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>, "R N Goil" <rngoil@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, 6 June, 2015, 12:10 AM
After 1977, no law maker has been
able to gather courage even to mention about family planning
in any forum - probably not even in private. Production
level being much higher in lower income groups, the number
of people below poverty line keeps on increasing,
government being forced to control the figure by
manupulating the threshold level of Poverty..
R.N.Malhotra
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/5/15, R N Goil <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY ,
CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Friday, June 5, 2015, 11:36 AM
Let us
have the courage to follow 1 child norm like China for 20
years to solve most of our ills. RN
Goil
On Friday, 5 June 2015 1:54 AM,
Gaur J K
<gaurjk@hotmail.com>
wrote:
#yiv3486396644 #yiv3486396644 --
.yiv3486396644hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv3486396644 body.yiv3486396644hmmessage
{
font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}
#yiv3486396644
03/06/15
A PIL was filed in the Suprme Court
in 2008 seeking speedy justice by some NGOs. After a
period
of 6 years the Court has summarily disposed of the
petition in December 2014.
To clear the
mounting backlog of cases in different courts and to
ensure
that the backlog does not reappear a number of submissions
were made for increasing the strength of the judges,
filling
up of the existing vacancies in subordinate courts, create
addl. infrastructure facilities including greater
transparency and accountability. The court observed that
the
judiciary has alrrady considered most of the issues raised
in the petition indepndently and finally. Janhit Manch(
Mr.
Rayani) is one of the petitioners.So where is the
hope for improvement in the justice delivery
system?JKGaur
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015
10:15:55 +0530
From: deegees11@gmail.com
To: trident142@yahoo.co.in
CC:
truevalue_pandian@yahoo.com;
iyer_ga@yahoo.com;
rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in;
vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com;
j_nc2000@yahoo.com;
indiaresists@lists.riseup.net;
Janshakti@yahoogroups.com;
barkha@ndtv.com
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN
JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
IAC was started by Kejriwal and
now it has been hijacked by BJP morons.
On 1 June 2015 at 09:47,
capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
its We the People
who have to oversee the judges through live telecast of
court proceedings.
presently applicable colonial rules IPC/CrPC
the judges have too much discretion, as was designed for
Britishers. must be harshly limited.
since the judges are also
servants of We the People.
if we see how law is made then we must also
see how that law is applied. therefore I have been
requesting President and CJI to start live telecast of
SC proceedings. only dishonest judges will object.
rgds.
beniwal
On Sunday, 31 May
2015 9:12 PM, PANDIAN Paulraj <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
It is NOT our intention to
blame any one or any individual or the system. WE ARE
CONFUSED. One judge says GUILTY. The same case, same
accused, same arguments, another more experienced, more
knowledgeable judge is saying NOT GUILTY. Who is wrong and
who is right? It can not be brushed aside as awn
aberration.
Both are presenting 800 plus pages of reasoning to
substantiate their conclusions. Obviously one of them is
wrong. I am personally scared when my case comes up for
judgment who will try me and with what result? Added to it
is the immunity granted to the judiciary by itself. But
then
who will oversee the judiciary? The Politicians? That is
the
joke of the millennium. Regards.
Gopalkrishnan iyer <iyer_ga@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Simply
put, naxalism, terrorism etc. are the offshoots of loosing
faith in judiciary! One can find well educated people(if
education is important) resorting to extremism/rebellion!
Discrimination, deprivation, disparity are all leading to
extremism!! Governance should incorporate all attributes
that give rise to the above to be evened out!
On Sunday, 31 May
2015 7:50 AM, Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
Dear
Sir,Till date our Constitution has not define the
word Citizen of India.Citizenship Act,1955 has
not yet been accepted by Government of India and the State
Governments.The judges are not law
makers.How many people of this country has signed
the documents called Citizen of India format designed by
the
bureaucracy.It was proposed in the year
2004.Therefore please do not blame the
judiciary.
Warm regards,
Rakshpal
Abrol
Consumer Activist
9820203154
rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in
From: PANDIAN
Paulraj <truevalue_pandian@Yahoo.com>
To: vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com
Cc: Gopalkrishnan iyer
<iyer_ga@yahoo.com>;
Dr. NC Jain <j_nc2000@yahoo.com>;
indiaresists@lists.riseup.net;
Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>;
Janshakti <Janshakti@yahoogroups.com>;
Barkha Dutt <barkha@ndtv.com>
Sent: Saturday, 30 May
2015 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG]
WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE
ALARMING
Remember. In India LAW simply means
Leave Accused if Wealthy.
It does not stop with actors, politicians
bureaucrats and the like. It is not the mistake
of the judges. Advocates should not take up cases they
know
to be unjust or illegal. Finding a way to somehow save
their
client is not fair. They no doubt save the client; but in
that process ruin the moral fibre of the nation. The only
way a common man can show his displeasure is by social
boycott. If you do not agree with the let away culprit,
don't see his movies for ever; or don't buy the
product the cricketer endorses ; or don't vote for the
party the politicians belong to. Ganga may not be cleaner
by
then. The country will become cleaner.
Vijay Kapoor <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
>In this context,
the recent order by SC as reported in the media, that a
"judge" who has passed an absurd order cannot be
questioned, is even more absurd. Question then arises:
that
if the "judge" even in an absurd order cannot be
questioned, can a judge who passes a criminal order, say,
"go and shoot Mr. X" or "go and commit
rape" or "burn down the house" can also not
be brought to book !? Then can an absurd "judge"
who passes an order, say, "I hereby sack the President
of India" or "The parliament stands
dissolved" be not brought to book ?
>The judges need to ponder the deleterious
effects on the nation of their virtually complete
accountability.
>
>Regards,
>
>--------------------------------------------
>On Wed, 5/20/15, Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
>
> Subject:
Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY ,
CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
> To:
"Gopalkrishnan iyer" <iyer_ga@yahoo.com>,
"Dr. NC Jain" <j_nc2000@yahoo.com>,
"vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com"
<vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com>,
"indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 1:04 AM
>
> The system was
> evolved taking into consideration of
British
> laws.Most of the Advocates
follow
> the same and being influenced
the judges pass the
> order.The
> Justice is never delivered it is
purchased.
> Warm regards,
> Rakshpal Abrol
>
Consumer Activist
> 9820203154
> rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in
>
>
> From: Gopalkrishnan
>
iyer <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>
> To: Dr. NC Jain
> <j_nc2000@yahoo.com>;
> "vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com"
> <vijay99kapoor@yahoo.com>;
> "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
> <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 May
> 2015 3:22 PM
>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG]
> WHEN PEOPLE LOSE
FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE
> ALARMING
>
> There is
> no doubt
left as to the fact that Indian justice system is
> not free from influence from powers that
be, money power and
> high profile
advocates.The recent verdicts one after the
> other seeng Salman khan virtually a free
man within hours
> despite being
convicted is ample proof that justice delivery
> is maneovreable! Harish Salve's
presense in the court in
> a way subdued
the Justice!! Or else all those involved in
> deliberating whether Salman is a culprit
or not are not at
> all knowing the law
on which they argued for 13 years!
>
Jayalalitha'scase too is anopther instance cite! Can
a
> common man avail the services of
Salve or the like of him
> and if so at
what cost and how fast! Common man has to wait
> for months for an appontment where as all
appointments were
> cancelled and flew
down in Salmans case!!I should
> say the
justice system also is influenced by status of
> people involved!
>
> Insider
> trader Gupta
in the US was convicted in a matter of days and
> sentence followed in the same pace whereas
Harshad
> Mehta's case is far from
being over though the accused
> passed
away long back!
> I think the jury
system
> could speed up the justice
system with least chance of a
> faulty
delivery of justice
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, 18 May
2015 12:47 PM, Dr.
> NC Jain <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
>
>
> Dear
> sir
> Such instances are very common.As everone
is aware, justice
> delayed is justice
denied and In India, it is a common
>
practice in almost,most department. I have a case of
> noncompliance of CIC order for the last 4
years and cic is
> not replying/taking
any action on it. In short,India is free
> but not Indians.We have to struggle to
make Indians free.
> Dr
> N C Jain
>
>
> On Friday,
May 15, 2015 1:14 AM,
> Vijay Kapoor
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
>
>
> In
> theory there
appeals are possible to set right the wrongs of
> lower courts. But things are entirely
different in
> practice.
> I cite a couple of my own
> experiences:
>
> 1. I filed a
>
consumer complaint against a leading industrialist and
> builder of Goa in the State Consumer
court. The
> "president judge",
one Mr. Nelson Britto,
> apparently held
the case in my favour because he granted me
> penal damages of Rs. 3.0 lacs against the
builder. But look
> at the sheer
malafides of the "judge" and his
> "order", who apparently imposed
the penalty as a
> smokescreen to shield
AND REWARD the errant industrialist.
>
His entire order does not mention a single word as to why
he
> imposed the penalty, and whether the
builder was in
> deficency, in unfair
trade practices, and providing
>
hazardous services, WHEN the industrialist-builder has
lied
> under oath and put a false
document said to be the NOC from
> navy
in the agreement to sell; the builder admitted in
> cross-examination under oath in that he
destroyed evidence;
> that he never
obtained the mandatory NOC from navy; that the
> brochure placed on record by me was his
brochure; that he
> contravened
> Registration Act; that he
> contravened The Transfer of Property Act
by not disclosing
> material defects in
the property; etc. and so on. There is a
> contravention of at least half a dozen
major Acts and laws
> of the land. But
the "judge" does not discuss any
> of the law points involved and does not
utter a single word
> about all those.
Finally to cap it all the "judge"
> ignores the prayers made by me to either
give market value
> (with written
quotations from 5 vicinity builders) OR a
> similar flat in nearby locality. Instead
he gives interest @
> 15%, which means a
loss in capital value to me of over 10
>
lacs (excluding interest cost), and a corresponding gain
to
> the industrialist.
>
> 2. In
> another case in the same court the
"judge", one
> Mr.
Prabhudessai, who claims to be a law teacher in a local
> college, ignores all evidence on record
and several points
> of law raised: Can
the opposite party submissions that are
>
not on affidavit and are merely verbal, be entertained by
> the court; Can a piece of paper without an
Invoice Number /
> Tax registration,
taxes be a valid "Invoice /
>
Bill"; can the OP who has approached the court in
not
> good faith be entertained; when
there are 6 different
> agreements
between the parties and with different dates and
> terms & conditions, can the matter be
properly decided
> without first deciding
which of the agreements is the valid
>
one; when the OP himself does not dispute or refute the
> evidence placed on record, can the
"judge"
> unilaterally decide
differently that too without any
>
reasoning; can the "judge" overrule at least 10
SC
> judgments on different subjects; can
the "judge"
> overrule the law
and the intent to
> the
> parliment; can the "judge" order
costs when
> several issues of law have
been raised; etc. The appeal
> before the
National Commission was the same .......
> non-appreciation of evidence on record and
several law
> points raised. At this
point as I came down with health
>
problems I could not pursue the matter in the SC.
>
> There are many fine
judges (I
> recall Justices Mr. Sachar
and Mrs. Leila Seth, who settled
> my PF
case in just 4 hearings and did not allow the govt.
> lawyers to dilly-dally. I also recall the
justice in Delhi
> HC, who put his foot
down by telling the govt judges to get
>
on with their defence, if any, and the outcome was
quaterly
> disclosure of results by
corporates, and also certain
> provisins
for transparency in results.) But, the problem is
> all-persuasive, and is not limited to the
judiciary only. As
> the SC itself has
said that the judges are part of the same
> society. One hopes that one encounters the
good judges,
> babus, netas, of which
there are many.
>
>
There is need for ALL-ROUND reform as in
> REFORM. The elections, administration,
judiciary, police,
> education, health,
... just everything.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 5/14/15, P.Mohana Chandran <p.mohanachandran50@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re:
>
[IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY ,
CONSEQUENCES
> CAN BE ALARMING
> To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2015, 1:08 AM
>
> Shri
Venkataraman may
> kindly note that to
err is human.Judges also
> may err-of
> course not with the intention to
> err.The error may be on a
> question of law
> or
on a guestion of fact.To take care of
>
> such situations,law enables affected
party to file
> Appeal,Review,Revision
etc.Do you wantthe
> Appellate Court
to
> confirm the trial court
> judgement in all cases and thereby
> make the
> people to
have faith in judiciary.TrialCourt and
> Appellate Courts shall patiently hear
the
> matter and give
> judgements with out fear or
> favour.They need not worry about
> the
> comments that
may be made by persons like
>
> Shri.Venkataraman.
>
If the decision of
> Mr.Justice
Kumaraswamy of
> the Hon'ble
> Karnataka High Court is based on
erroneous
>
>
calculation (mathematical error ) in calculating the
> total
> assets and
total income and if the
> mismatch is
really more
> than 10% as is
> being propogated by some opposition
leaders
>
> in
Tamilnadu, a mere Application for Review will be
> sufficient for the Judge to correct
the
> error.
> The
allegation was that since
>
Ms.Jayalalitha is a politician,the case was
> prolonged for
> more
than a decade.On her
> coviction,when the
Bail matter
> came up
> before the Supreme Court ,coditional Bail
was
> granted,a consequence of which is
expeditious
> disposal of
> the Appeal which resulted in
> quick disposal of the
> Appeal.The economic
>
status of the party concerned has
>
nothing
> to do with the case.
> A resourceful /wealthy
> party may be able
>
to engage a team of legal
> experts and
may be able to come
> out
> successful by taking advantage of the
loopholes in law.A
> 'daridra
narayana' may have to depend
> on a
lawyer
> provided by Court or
Legal
> Services Authority who may
or
> may not be
>
good/capable of handling the matter.It is only in
> this matter ,economically deprived
persons are
> in a dis
> advantageous position.Bail is the
> Rule and Jail is an
>
exception. Poor people
> are not capable
of engaging a lawyer
> and in
> cases that are not very serious,amicus
curie is not
> appointed by court for
accused and hence they
> remain in
jail
> for days, months and at
> times years.
> I
shall cite a case
> (Mrs.Indirra
Gandhi)
> where a High Court
> 's verdict was set aside by the
> Supreme
> Court,not
because the High Court was wrong but
>
because the Parliament amended the law with
> retrospective
>
effect.Incurring expenses by
> a
candidate above the cut off
> limit was
an
> electoral malpractice even if the
amount is
>
> spent
by a political party. Mrs.Gandhi was unseated as
> Congress spent in excess of the cut
off
> amount.During
> emergency, law was amended
> with retrospective effect
> stipulating that
>
money spent by political parties shall not
>
> be counted to
calculate the cut off amount .Both the
> decisions were correct.Perhaps Shri
> Venkataraman might not have uttered a
word
> had
>
Ms.Jayalalitha got the Prevention of
>
Corruption Act
> amended with
retrospective
> effect exempting
MPs,MLAs,MLCs
> and Central
> and State Ministers from the per view
of the
> Prevention of Corruption
Act.I appreciate Ms
> Jayalalitha
> for fighting the case by filing
> Appeal engaging ,of course
> the best legal
>
brain instead of managing to amend the
>
> Prevention of
Corruption Act with the help of Mr Modi
> and
> also the
DMK P.Mohana
>
>
Chandran
> On Wed, May 13, 2015
> at 9:08 AM, Raghavan R N <raghavan6@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> If some one is Punished by a Court, it
does not
> mean Judiciary is right .
There are many
> cases pending
> Judgement in a number of
> Courts in india, the two recently
> came up
> for public
attention is that of Ms Jayalalitha and
> Mr Salman Khan
>
Every one
> knows that Ms
Jayalalitha's case
> is
> one related to Politics and it is natural,
every one
> wanted her to be punished[
her opponents].
> She has been an
> actress for a long time and
> her back ground is too good to
> be
> considered that
she amassed wealth only by political
>
means. Judgement by a Lower Court need not
> necessarily
> decide
the final outcome. Law
> provides more
options till
> Supreme Court.
> If it is a fit case for fighting, Govt
should
> initiate action to file a suit
in Supreme
> Court. None
> prevented and no one should
> close this option. Counting
> dresses ,
> chappals
and other house hold articles for
>
> estimating the assets of Ms Jayalalitha
looks
> odd.
> In
the case of Ms Salman
> Khan, it can
be
> appreciated that this case
> is not of national importance.
> Daily such
> run over
cases happen in India and abroad and
>
even yesterday three women were killed under
> the wheels of a
>
police vehicle. It is an
> accident can
be due to
> negligence.Here too,
> the accused has options to
> appeal in higher
>
court to get justice. Bail was granted as
>
> he is an actor and
is working in number of FILMS. All get
> affected. Granting bail , fast or slow
cannot
> be questioned.
> Definitely, prominent people
> get things done fast and for
> others, it
> takes
time. It is Indian culture and way of doing
> things in India.
>
> raghavan rn
>
>
>
> From: boompellivenkatrao@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:47:50 -0400
> To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
> Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE
FAITH
> IN JUDICIARY ,
> CONSEQUENCES CAN BE
>
ALARMING
>
> One
more case of
> SATYAM Ramblings Raju.
The fraud is
> a
>
open book to every one. He got bail with in a
> month.
> B.
VENKAT RAO
> Sent from my iPhone
> On
> 12-May-2015, at
3:41 am, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Judiciary in India
has
> made a mockery of
> themselves . They know that there is
no
>
> one in the
governing system who can punish them for all
> the
> wrongs. Now
with the judgement made in
> favour of
> Jayalalitha clearly shows that
> how our judiciary has been
> working . The
>
presenting officers and the defence
>
> advocates have been playing games with
each other .At
> least punish out off
those who have been
> proved to be
> wrong .
> Same
> thing happened with the case of Salman
>
> Khan.
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:41 PM,
> Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> To
>
> India Against
Corruption
>
>
>
>
>
>
> WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN
JUDICIARY
> , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE
ALARMING
>
>
> After
> several
years
> of trial in a killing case,
> an actor was held guilty by the
> court and
> jail
term
> awarded. But, he got bail in
a
> few hours
>
from another judge. After
> several years
of trial in a
> corruption
> case, a
> Chief
Minister was found guilty and
> awarded
jail term and
> hefty fine. But,
> after a few months, a higher court
judge
> called her innocent
> and acquitted
>
everyone involved totally. Now, one wonders
> which judge is
>
right and which judge
> is wrong.
>
>
> While rich
>
politicians and cinema actors
> seem to
have the last laugh,
> there are
> thousands
> of
dharidhranarayanas in India
> who stay in
jail for lesser
> crime for
> several
> years
without being heard. Are they
> not as
much Indians as
> the cinema actor
> driving his car on a pavement dweller
and rich
> politician
> indulging in corrupt
> practices ? Are we settling down for
this sort
> of democracy
> in India ?
>
>
> An average common
man
> in
> India,
millions of whom do not have any political
> affiliation have already
> lost
> faith in the
politicians in power and bureaucracy. He
> has been thinking that
> the
> judiciary is
ultimate conscience keeper of the country.
> But, when judiciary
> give
> judgements
with so much of contradiction between one
> judge and the other
> and
> providing
bail and relief
> to the
> convicted actor and
>
politicians with
> great speed and
with
> many judges in
> India already having been
> accused of
> corrupt
practices in the past, people
>
> tend to develop doubts about judiciary
>
> too.
>
> Now, what can
a
> common man do , if he loses faith
in
> politicians in power,
> bureaucrats and
>
judges? It is alarming to think about such
> situation and the
>
possibilities.
> N.S.Venkataraman
>
>
>
> Post:
> "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>
> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>
> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>
> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>
> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>
>
> Post:
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> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
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Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
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"https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
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Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
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