Sunday, June 14, 2015

RE: [IAC#RG] FW: FW: WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING

Dear Shri Vinay Shankar ji,
In Political Science there are two kinds of Governments- Left of the Center and Right of the Center. USSR, Poland etc were having extreme Left of the Center Communist governments. From Pt Nehru's time we had mostly left of the Center governance with a very few Liberal concepts. In the last about 7 decades now we had week and ineffective local governments, outdated colonial model of bureaucracy which hardly bothers for welfare of citizens and freely allows large scale corruption in subsidies where hardly 16 paise per ruppee reach the beneficiaries. For political reasons and votebank policy loss making PSUs are encouraged. In fact umpteen more negative effects can be mentioned for countries following left of the Center governance. 
Countirs which follow right of the center governance have strong and effective local governments, welfare most impartial Judiaciary and bureaucracy, a few PSUS with high quality products and profit making, best Universities of the world, world class infrastructure and umpteen points of good governance.
 
In left of the center governance poverty is allowed to continue as vote bank Liberalpolicy and all social welfare and HRD indices are very low  in comparisson to countries following Right of the Center policies. All the currencies of the Socialist countries are very weak and those of Liberal Countries very strong. My suggestion is why not we follow Right of the Center Liberal policies-encouraging International trade, very high standard of education strong defence and good governance which even our Vedas advise.
 
Incidentally I have not understoof reference to my son's writings who was amongst the toppers in India and served for 18 years in IAS as DC, DRDA, Dirctor Rural Development, Secy and Commissioner in the state government and resigned foregoing his pension and gratuity after 18 years service as he was convinced IAS bureaucracy is great stumbling vlock in the progress of the country. It was my mistake as I advised him to join IAS and not IFS. When I joined as Joint Secy in the Minstry of Defence , i
and dealt with a number of IAS officers up Secy/Cabinet Secy level, I got a very poor impression of this service and was happy he resigned from IAS with such a brilliant career. Service to Citizens is strictly prohibited in IAS.
 
Regards
Prem Sabhlok


Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 16:07:08 +0530
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] FW: FW: WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
From: vinayshan@gmail.com
To: psabhlok@hotmail.com
CC: j_nc2000@yahoo.com; col_kvcnair@yahoo.com; mdapte2@gmail.com; achawla42@gmail.com; msb931@yahoo.com; parag@graphinetmedia.com; tncrangarajan@yahoo.com; tomarsangeeta27@gmail.com; drgeorgemanayam@yahoo.co.in; coldewan@gmail.com; colsahasi@hotmail.com; satishanand10@gmail.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net; narnath@gmail.com; info@gpsengineers.com; love1truth@hotmail.com; mmit234@hotmail.com; futuralogic@gmail.com

Dear Shri Sabhlok,
Now a days, perhaps never in the history of modern times in any country, there has been true Socialism, Capitalims or Liberalism. it is always a mixture and the propotion keeps on varying depending on the circumstances.
After the war, UK was highly socialist; as a matter of fact the socialism that the world practised, apart from the USSR, was seen in its dominant form in UK.
 
I am not arguing about the merits and demerits of Socialism and other isms. I am trying to submit that we should not be obsessed with these terms, which have never been practised in their true theoretical form any where and are not practised even today.
 
Instead of looking into the past times of Nehru, we should see what mixture does the country need today. If you argue that any measure that has the remotest connection with socialism should be thrown out, I do not agree particularly because the country is very poor and a big number will suffer unacceptable level of deprivation if the State support was totally withdrawn.
 
I feel that you have wrongly understood your son's writings. The title of his book is catching but I am sure he does not mean that all support to the poor be withdrawn.
 
Vinay Shankar 

On 13 June 2015 at 11:19, Prem Sabhlok <psabhlok@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Please tell me in which Socialist Country people have faith in Judiciary,  bureaucracy and political leaders
Pt Nehru gave us rudderless Socialism- based on false promises during elections and the same is continuing even after nearly 70 years of Independence. Black Money is the highest New Caste in India.  
Even a Brahmin prefers Shudra richman with blackmoney than a learned Brahmin who is poor.
 
Who is to be blamd for this continuous social mess created by Socialism?. WE the People of India have started loving socialism even though the most progressive states in the world prefer Liberalism, welfare bureaucracy, genuine Swaraj, politics as the noblest Endeavour.
 
I have no idea When We the People of India will say good bye to Socialism where even a dud, highly corrupt, neta with criminal outlook is worshipped. Latest entry in the worst kind of Socialism is now AAP and Kejriwal. Many Socialist parties are waiting in the long Que except Regd Swarna Bharat Party with total Liberal, genuine democratic agenda with firm belief in Poltics as the nobles endeavour..
 
PremSabhlok
 
 
 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 07:27:57 +0000
From: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
To: col_kvcnair@yahoo.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] FW: FW: WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING

Dear sir
     It is all due to the fact that INDIA IS FREE BUT NOT INDIANS. WE have to struggle to make INDIANS FREE. 85% of population is worried about their two meals RATHER THAN THINKING ABOUT THE NATION.
We have to work hard to make Indians free.
Dr N C Jain



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:47 PM, chandra nair <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


Quote - - - - -If so, - - - - - - found a way out. Is there any other country where the final judgement is delivered after fifty or more years- - - ? Un Quote.

YES THERE ARE!!! Read todays' TOI! In US of  A, a coloured individual has been released after 

43(FORTY THREE)Yrs OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT! 

Veteran K V C Nair


On Wednesday, 10 June 2015 7:12 AM, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr Manchanda

Either you are taking an ostrich like approach or are trying to defend the indefensible! The judiciary is by far the worst organ of our constitution and not only is it spoiled but it has spoiled  the other organs too. Just note the decision of the then CJI K G Balakrishnan in the judges assets case. By what stretch of imagination can anybody say that the office of the CJI is court of purview of the RTI Act? And then look at how the apex court, specifically its CJ, is trying to subvert the Judges Appointment Commission!

ravi
On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Rakesh Manchanda <rakeshmanchanda65@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:20 AM, vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
The question is neither of the huge population nor of the limited resources. The first question is whether any body is interested either judges or the politicians or academicians interested in doing justice to the people? If so, they would have found a way out. Is there any other country where the final judgment is delivered after fifty or more years? And can it be called a justice? In India justice has disappeared a long back.

V. S. Sardesai 



On Tuesday, 2 June 2015 8:36 AM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:


From: gaurjk@hotmail.com
To: drgeorgemanayan@yahoo.co.in
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] FW: WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 12:39:54 +0530
01/01/15
My intention was not to compare the justice delivery in the two countries.
Our system is based on the british model ( Common Law). They made the laws as an imperial power to govern India and we adopted them  and have continued . But the population today is 5 times and the infrastructure has not kept pace.Let us say it is the democratic system. But if you look around how will you judge the success or failure of this system?The next democratic country with large population is US Where population is only 1/5 of India and infrastructure facilities are huge.
In the Muslim countries they follow the Shariat laws which are short and swift.
In the Communist countries-say China with comparable population and Russia the justice delivery system is swift not with 4/5 appeals from Trial court to Supreme Court.
So the question is with such a huge [population and limited resources,what should be the system to ensure timely,corrution free justice delivery ?
regds
Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 08:06:55 +0000
From: drgeorgemanayan@yahoo.co.in
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] FW: WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
Comparisons need be made only with equals. I support the views made here showing the folly of comparisons just for the sake of it. Thanks and regards.
          Dr.M.C.George, Advocate, INFAM - (Indian Farmers Movement) National Trustee.


On Saturday, 30 May 2015 9:23 AM, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
You are off the track in comparing the population to judge ratio of the US and India. How does the population matter when more than 80 pc of them are and can only think about where their next meal comes from? With 1/5 our population the number of cases filed is far greater in the US. The figures I had noted from a powerpoint presentation attributed to Adv KTS Tulsi are:  

CASES FILED IN ONE YEAR (1999):INDIA : 13.6 Million (1,36,68,073) cases; USA: 93.81 Million cases

DOCKET'S PER JUDGE: INDIA : 987 per Judge; USA: 3235 per Judge

regards n bw

ravi
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
28/5/15
Dispensing justice to more than 1.2 billion people under the colonial system which has continued after independence
has reached a stage of near collapse. Next democracy in terms of population is US with only 1/5 population and 5 times the judges ratio compared to India.
From: gaurjk@hotmail.com
To: beniwalg@ymail.com
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 13:31:18 +0530
Dt.16/5/15

Dear Sirs,

I am sorry to say that we are being unduly harsh on the judges forgetting the limitations under which they have to work.
Advocates are a part of the judicial system and why are we not blaming them for the delay and corruption?
Police are a part of the judicial system and why are we not blaming them for the delay, manipulation and corruption?
Govt. is a part of the judicial system as most of the cases of monetary nature-incometax, Sales tax, Excise, financial frauds originate from them and they keep on going into appeals in a routine manner-just clogging the judicial system.
We ourselves have become a litigant nation- and rush  to courts at the earliest opportunity without exhausting alternative
redressal mechanism. marital disputes, property disputes, inheritance and domestic violence fall into this catagory.
For infrastructure facilities in courts-the judiciary depends on the executive for funds. See the budget allocation for this.
The laws are made by the legislature. See the competence of the legislators for enacting laws which are clear, concise and not open to different interpretations. The judiciary has to act under that legal system.
For redresal of grievances against the Govt.,the judiciary developed the concept of Public litigation(PIL). You have to see the Nos of PILs being filed in Superior courts-many of them frivolous in nature and how much time the courts have to devote on the PILs
To my mind the main culprit is the Govt. who have been promising more that what they can deliver to the people,leading to frustration and sense of hopelessness.
JKGaur
Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 00:54:46 +0000
From: beniwalg@ymail.com
To: girinder_singh@yahoo.com; indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] WHEN PEOPLE LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING


Sir, judges also decide cases on Give and Take  basis.





On Friday, 15 May 2015 1:08 AM, Girinder Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Dear Friends, the most common peoples who loves their country and in those veins the blood having P factor (patriotism) is flowing has been demoralised  before and after independence, our democracy has been a mockery of corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, judiciary, media even as 4th pillar is also seems corrupts many times some exceptions may be always there in all but it's true that most public is in anguish on corrupt practices which stops the progress & competeness of our beloved nations, no solution?

Sent from my iPhone

On 12-May-2015, at 10:28 pm, jerry rosario <jerrysj1@gmail.com> wrote:

indeed depressing to know that judges
quite easily change the VERDICTS 

how come ?
jerry
On 12 May 2015 at 15:53, ADV. SUDHA GANDHI <advsudhagandhi@gmail.com> wrote:
YES,   IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE WHAT YOU OPINED ABOUT JUDICIARY IN INDIA.
   OUR  JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS NOT FUNCTIONING FAIRLY  FOR COMMON MAN, FOR
POOR PEOPLE, AND FOR HONEST PEOPLE.   MOREOVER  A TIE AMONG JUDGES,
SOLICITOR FIRMS, COUNSELS, POLITICIANS, INFLUENTIAL PERSONALITY, NAMED
AND FAMED ACTORS AND ALL SUCH LOBBY WITH THE HELP OF MONEY POWER  IN
WHOSE FAVOUR THE COURT DECIDES   AND 80% OF PEOPLE OF INDIA NEVER GET
JUSTICE IN TIME.      COMMON PEOPLE AND POOR HAS NO MONEY TO PAY
ENORMOUS FEES  TO ADVOCATES TO GET JUSTICE.      EVERY ONE KNOWS THAT
FACE VALUE OF COUNSEL AND NAME OF SOLICITORS' FIRM  COUNTS AND NOT A
MERITS OF THE CASE.      FURTHER  MANY POLITICIAN THOUGH INITIALLY
COME FROM COMMON MAN  SOCIETY BUT AS SOON AS HE OR SHE CHOOSES ANY
POLITICAL PARTY AND START GETTING HOLD IN PARTY BY DOING CORRUPT
PRACTICE TO COLLECT MONEY AND TO PROVIDE HUGE FUND TO THE POLITICAL
PARTY AND ON THAT MERIT ALONE HE SUCCEED TO GET TICKET FOR M.P. AND
M.L.A SEAT AS NOW ALL AWARE OF THIS FACT AND THEN THEY START  MAKING
CORRUPT THE ENTIRE ENVIRONMENT IN COUNTRY.    HOW PEOPLE CAN EXPECT
ANY HELP FROM SUCH SELFISH, RUDELY BEHAVED AND CORRUPT  POLITICIAN
WHO JUST WANT TO ENJOY THEIR LIFE AT THE COST OF TEX PAYER'S MONEY IN
INDIA.        HOW SUCH ARROGANT POLITICIAN    WILL BRING DEVELOPMENT
OF INDIA  AND BRING ACHHE DIN  FOR PEOPLE OF INDIA?    HOW PEOPLE PUT
TRUST IN SUCH GOVERNMENT THAT SUCH POLITICIANS WILL WORK HARD AND
PROVIDE SELFLESS SERVICE TO THE NATION AND MAKE LIFE OF PEOPLE OF
INDIA HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS?   PEOPLE Of  INDIA LOST INTEREST IN SUCH
SHAMELESS, CORRUPT AND ARROGANT POLITICIANS AND TIRED OF SUCH  INDIAN
DEMOCRACY WHERE NO HOPES LEFT FOR THE GOOD DAYS OF THE PEOPLE.  B.J.P.
WORRIED ABOUT BLACK MONEY KEPT IN FOREIGN BANK,   GOOD, BUT WHAT ABOUT
ALL POLITICIANS OF ALL POLITICAL PARTIES  WHO HAVE COLLECTED ENORMOUS
BLACK MONEY AND IS IN INDIA ONLY INCLUDING BLACK MONEY COLLECTED BY
B.J.P. PAST AND PRESENT MINISTERS AND PRESENT MINISTERS AND M.P. AND
M.L.A. OF B.J.P ABOUT WHOM MODIJI IS SILENT!   WHAT YOU ALL THINK
ABOUT IT?

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Venkatraman Ns
<nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:
> To
>
> India Against Corruption
>
>
>                                                                WHEN PEOPLE
> LOSE FAITH IN JUDICIARY , CONSEQUENCES CAN BE ALARMING
>
> After several years of trial in a killing case, an actor was held guilty by
> the court and jail term awarded. But, he got bail in a few hours  from
> another judge. After several years of trial in a corruption case, a Chief
> Minister was found guilty and awarded jail term and hefty fine. But, after a
> few months, a higher court judge called her innocent and acquitted everyone
> involved totally. Now, one wonders which judge is right and which judge is
> wrong.
>
> While rich politicians and cinema actors seem to have the last laugh, there
> are thousands of dharidhranarayanas in India who stay in jail for lesser
> crime for several years without being heard. Are they not as much Indians as
> the cinema actor driving his car on a pavement dweller and rich politician
> indulging in corrupt practices ? Are we settling down for this sort of
> democracy in India ?
>
> An average common man in India, millions of whom do not have any political
> affiliation have already lost faith in the politicians in power and
> bureaucracy. He has been thinking that the judiciary is ultimate conscience
> keeper of the country. But, when judiciary give judgements with so much of
> contradiction between one judge and the other and  providing  bail and
> relief to the convicted actor and politicians with  great speed and with
> many judges in India already having been accused of corrupt practices in the
> past, people  tend to develop doubts about judiciary too.
>
> Now, what can a common man do , if he loses faith in politicians in power,
> bureaucrats and judges? It is alarming to think about such situation and the
> possibilities.
>
>
> N.S.Venkataraman
>
>
> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
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