Now, I can understand why Sarbjeet Roy is such an interesting person. He is alleging all possible motives and collusions to my work. Thanks Sarbjeetji for such new insights into my work.
--
Yamuna Satyagraha
Well, to respond to Mr. Devender, the Indian judicial system largely involved the local residents. Advantage is the locals always knew who is who and what he does. The deliberations were held in open meetings, almost all acquaintances/ residents of the village. This limited the chances of the litigants lying.
At initiation level, the litigants followed a custom. Each would get into agreement to invite two-three people from each side and allow them to deliberate and pronounce judgement. In case of disagreement, though rare, any of the litigating parties could approach a larger village gathering. If one of the litigants was still not satisfied, he/she could approach a multi village gathering. The last was in practice in khap areas like West UP, Delhi, Haryana and Punjab. In rest of country, the highest court of appeal was village panchayat. In the khap areas, the British had accepted thee supremacy of local customs and preferred not to interfere.
Below is extract from a book on customary practices in erstwhile Punjab.
"Pax Romana could be said to have influenced even British effort to induct the customary usages of rural communities into a system of customary law in the Punjab. The British Government's attitude to custom was described by Michael O'Dwyer's concluding lines of his speech in 1915, at the Conference on Customary Law in Simla: "The problem before us in the Punjab is unique. Other Provinces in India, have as a rule, the Dharma Shastras and the various commentaries on them for the Hindus and the Shariyat and the Hadis for the Muhamaddans . . . Here we have elected to be governed by custom. We have no body of feeling that condemns our tribal customs as a whole as antiquated or unsuitable. No
desire for uniformity, no sense of injustice involved in the maintenance of the existing system.Our function is therefore to uphold, not to destroy." Consequently, the process of assimilation of custom into the legal frameworkof rural society in Punjab was done at various stages but the final shape was given by the enactment of the Punjab
Laws Act IV 1872. Therefore, even though the root of Punjab custom was tradition and was in several ways
"coincident with popular feelings and necessities" nevertheless they (Punjab customs) became the law of the
province by a single statute."
The above extract is not focussed on judicial system, but, relates to it. It only serves to highlight the role of local customs, traditions, and many of these were related to dispute resolution.
In rest of country too, the judicial system worked similarly. Please visit any far away village in any corner of country and you would see such systems still in operation.
A friend , Faizul, from Bengal told me about such systems in their society. Similarly, in Assam, South India etc.
Yes, there were deficiencies too. If the village gathering was hijacked by influential landlord or a purohit, or anyone else, it led to skewed justice. So, wheresoever, people could ensure a wider participation in the jury, the decision were just and quick.
Much can be discussed. This is for now.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All
Question: If Mr Diwan Singh (Ridge Bachao Andolan) is so concerned
with the poor quality of "British" laws and seeks their abolition in
favour of "khap" system, then why did he and his so-called 'andolan'
go to Supreme Court in Vasant Kunj malls case with Prashant Bhushan as
his advocate ?
Since I have asked the question, let me also provide 1 possible opinion.
Ans: Because these dubious NGOs and the people who promote them, are
oftentimes nothing but proxies for mafias. In the Vasant Kunj Malls
case, because the Delhi High Court had stopped construction in Vasant
Kunj in "Sultangarhi" matter in an absolutely water-tight judgment,
the land mafia arranged many NGO rascals to file an absolutely bakwaas
PIL with bakwaas counsel to quickly get contrary orders in an
unrelated proceeding in SC. Since it was very valuable land on which
the malls (DLF, Ambience etc) were 80% constructed and stopped by
'Sultangarhi' judgment, such dubious andolans came in very handy to
bypass Sultangarhi judgment, in 2006 (if I recall correctly), by
throwing their case.
Sarbajit
On 10/13/14, devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
<devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> Dear Diwan Singh Ji. You have said something rather fascinating. Can you
> please throw some more light on what you have said that the parties involved
> in litigation chose their own juries? and can you also please say what was
> the system of justice and do you think it could cater for the intricate and
> complex which we have become.
>
> I agree with what you have said about the British being much smarter,
> calculative and effective. Regards Devinder
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com>
>>To: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
>>Cc: Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>;
>> "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>>Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 7:50 AM
>>Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Time to render justice to Sadhvi Pragya - let us wipe
>> thisblot of shame on what is done to a Sadhu and a woman
>>
>>Dear Devinderji,
>>Thats why I said, its a deep discussion. The Mughals system was not so
>> pervasive. It did not effect the day to day lives of Indian villages. The
>> Mughal system could not dislodge our traditonal judicial system that
>> involved juries chosen by the parties themselves.
>>
>>
>>What Mr. Bhatia has sent is right. The British actually dislodged
>> everything. They were much smarter, calculative and effective. They have
>> been so effective that most of us educated Indians do not know about
>> traditional Indian judicial system.
>>
>>On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>What was our legal system before the British took control of us and
>> introduced English legal system??.In what way was it superior to the
>> system we presently have.?? We were then ruled by the Mughals and I
>> believe that they had the Qazi, Kotwal and Qued khana. What was the source
>> of their law, was it based on equity or law or both or just what the
>> Quaran said about the crime and punishment in a given situation.. Just
>> imagine, what system of law would have existed today if the British had
>> not come. Would it have been able to cope with the growing complexities of
>> the society.?? What quality, and the level of legal intellect would have
>> been applied in arriving at a judgement which would have also served as
>> legal precedent.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are right about the "hegemony of the British and their own need. After
>>> all they were ruling a country as big as India. It needed a fully
>>> developed social order, a transport system, and law and order machinery.
>>> without which they would have been unable to rule.
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree with you that litigation in India is prohibitively expensive and
>>> atrociously slow and no doubt people are afraid to get involved any kind
>>> of legal action. Devinder.
>>>
>>> From: Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com>
>>>>To: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
>>>>Cc: Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>;
>>>> "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 10:21 AM
>>>>
>>>>Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Time to render justice to Sadhvi Pragya - let us
>>>> wipe thisblot of shame on what is done to a Sadhu and a woman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This judicial system supresses everything. People fear going to courts
>>>> and the police. What use is such system that is so expensive, have no
>>>> regards for local custom, culture. Our old system was pretty good, swift
>>>> and delivered justice. No doubt, it needed some reforms. Its a matter of
>>>> detail, can not discuss so much online. We could have continued with old
>>>> system with reforms, but , then, it would not have allowed hegemony for
>>>> the British. So, they brought their own, to suit their own needs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 2:26 PM, <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Most of the European Laws as well as the American laws are based on the
>>>> British Law. The British law has the most well developed ystem of
>>>> jurisprudence. In Indian we did not have any such system before the
>>>> British rule. So there is nothing wrong with have a system which is
>>>> adopted and practised by more than half the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I should however mention that since independence, our judiciary has
>>>>> developed our own case law and legal prcedents. So it is not understood
>>>>> how our own culture is being suppressed??. Devinder
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Rakshpal Abrol <rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in>
>>>>>>To: "devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com"
>>>>>> <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>; Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cc: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 9:07 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Time to render justice to Sadhvi Pragya - let us
>>>>>> wipe thisblot of shame on what is done to a Sadhu and a woman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In our country, we have adapted Indian Penal Code,1860 enacted by
>>>>>> Britishers to supress the growth of our culture. Please o through the
>>>>>> Statement dated 2nd February,1835 of Lord Mccauley.
>>>>>>You can see the same on Face-Book of RajnishAbrol.
>>>>>>The plan of the State Government failed as on 26th November,2008, it
>>>>>> was meant for Sadhvi Pragya.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Warm regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rakshpal Abrol
>>>>>>Consumer
> Activist
>>>>>>9820203154
>>>>>>rakshpal.abrol@yahoo.co.in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com"
>>>>>> <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
>>>>>>To: Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com>
>>>>>>Cc: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, 11 October 2014 8:08 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Time to render justice to Sadhvi Pragya - let us
>>>>>> wipe thisblot of shame on what is done to a Sadhu and a woman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is premature to say whether she has been punished enough or not. If
>>>>>> we go by the gravity of the alleged crime, she has not spent enough
>>>>>> time in jail, because such crimes entail a long term in imprisonment
>>>>>> and any time spent in prison, waiting for the trial is adjusted
>>>>>> against the eventual prison sentence. This can only be decided by a
>>>>>> fair and speedy trial which she is being denied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The fact that she is a Sadhvi, has no value in the eyes of law. Her
>>>>>> status is that of a citizen and that is what she will be treated as.
>>>>>> Sadhvi's do not get involved in criminal conspiracies to kill other
>>>>>> people. Another political Sadhvi got away lightly was Uma Bharati who
>>>>>> confessed to instigating the demolition of a historic structure.
>>>>>> Devinder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Diwan Singh <diwans2007@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>To: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
>>>>>>>Cc: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
>>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 3:11 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Time to render justice to Sadhvi Pragya - let us
>>>>>>> wipe thisblot of shame on what is done to a Sadhu and a woman
>>>>>>>I support this mail. shadvi pragya seems to be punished already
>>>>>>> without being convicted. She is a saint and deserve respect from the
>>>>>>> society.
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Diwan Singh
Ridge Bachao Andolan
Campaign for Preservation of Commons
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