Thursday, May 16, 2013

RE: [IAC#RG] Insult to the nation

Sarabjit,

Thank you for a very well written post.

Will it be possible for you to also tell our group what were Rabindra Nath Tagore's thoughts on the subject were ?
Could you also re-produce the Tagore-Subhash Chandra Bose correspondence on the subject even at the relevant time ?

I could do it but mine would be a cut and paste job for lack of time whereas you would put it more lucidly.

Thank you.

Jai Hind.

Amjad Afridi



Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 14:55:37 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Insult to the nation

I really wish people would stop trying to interpret an ancient work by modern standards.

The original baul chant of Bengal at the time of Bankim was "Bande Bandini Matarang" (Bankim dropped 'Bandini') and it was only in the 2nd edn of Anandmath that Bankim altered Matarang (a corruption)  to Mataram.

The first 2 stanzas of the poem (which are the national song) are not actually Bankim's own composition. It is by the subsequent verses Bankim expands it into a situational allegory for Goddess Durga who is the "Goddess-who-shall-be" in the book.

Both 'kattar' Muslims (like Mr. Barq) and 'kattar' Brahmins (like Bankim) know very well that Bankim's mischievous poem (not the original 2 stanzas) is meant only for the lower classes and inferior minds who can only comprehend God through idol worship (which all Hindu Shastras acknowledge to be an inferior kind of worship).

Islam and Hinduism are both united in denouncing that God can have any form or sex/gender or incarnation.

Islam and Hinduism are both united in denouncing that any motherland or fatherland can represent God or can be worshipped as God.

Both Islam and higher Hinduism allow that observation of nature (such as depictions of flowers and leaves etc) are permissible for use in places of worship, but that no humaniod or animoid form which can be used to depict God is permissible during or near worship.

The national song (for which Bankim has wrongly got credit) is simply a rustic homage to "Mother Nature" (Gaia) as represented by "The Forest". It has nothing to do with the debased bastardisms which pass for modern Hinduism among the ignorant masses who are being misled about this song by both Hindu fanatics and Muslim fanatics or that the song is for "nationalism".

The term "nationalism" is fundamentally opposed to the diversity of cultures and peoples that makes up India. The terms "Mother India", "Madar-e-Watan"  and "Bharat Mata" etc are un-patriotic concepts crafted for ignorant minds which shall eventually destroy Hindustan by wiping out and reducing to lowest common denominator ("McDonalidization") the proud Hindustani people.

PS: In my opinion the best English word to approximate "Bande" (in Bande Mantaram) would be "adore" (in the sense of to love very deeply).

Sarbajit

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
16/5/13
 
In my opinion the word ,Bande, is being twisted to mean bowing or praying. It is a simple word of salutation. When one says Bande Matram, one has not to bow literally.
Besides the concept of land one belongs to has a sense of reverence, repect and duty to protect. If it was not so how do you explain the concept of Holy lands for the Muslim, christians and jews.Again, in some countries they call it MOTHERLAND AND IN oTHERS iIT IS FATHERLAND.But universally the sense of possession,reverence and
will to protect  and prosper exists.
Let us not go to the literal meanings of word Vande/Bande but the feelings behind it.
JKGaur
 
 
 

Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:26:40 +0530
From: wadoodsajid@gmail.com
To: rina_mukherji@yahoo.com
CC: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Insult to the nation

I agree with Rina that Muslim Indians describe India as MADAR_E WATAN.
but what is the meaning of Madare watan?
Madar is mother. its a Persian word. and of course mother is respected by every one. but she is not worshiped at all. 
I am not defending or abusing the under question MP. but i would humbly request to all pl understand the sensitivity of the faith he belongs to.

 Islam strictly direct its followers to have integrity to their motherland. so try to differentiate between motherland and God.

Regards
Sajid  

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:04 AM, rina mukherji <rina_mukherji@yahoo.com> wrote:
When several Muslims have no objection to referring to India as Maadarevatan, what is the objection to Vande Mataram, pray? He ought to be punished for this, and banned from Parliament.
 
Rina Mukherji
 
Kolkata

From: R.K.Gupta <hr.sasgroup@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2013 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Insult to the nation

We should hang such people irrespective of caste&creed who don't pay respect to our National Anthem or they should be asked to leave the country and citizenship should be withdrawn. 


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Veerendra Jaitly <jaitly.iit@gmail.com> wrote:
It is sad that some people find it difficult to sing even a few lines in the praise of our own motherland. 

'Vande Matram' is a great song which at one time united all Indians irrespective of caste, creed and religion. 

With modernization, some people are becoming more and more fanatic and less flexible.

rgds

VK Jaitly 


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Sack MPs who don't respect National Song 
No matter what his reservations may have been against the National Song, by disdainfully walking out of Parliament when Vande Mataram was being played, BSP leader Shafiqur Rahman Barq has insulted the country. Such an affront to the nation, that too delivered inside the hallowed halls of Parliament — the sanctum sanctorum of democracy, cannot be tolerated. Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar has taken note of the incident, but the matter must not be allowed to rest there. The offending MP's membership to the lower House must be cancelled and his political boss would do well to severely reprimand him. Not only has Mr Barq committed sacrilege, he has shown no remorse for his despicable behaviour. Instead, the little known MP from Moradabad has defended his actions in the name of 'religious freedom' and 'secularism'. That the two have absolutely nothing to do with respecting one's motherland is clearly a concept that is alien to Mr Barq, who has argued that since rendering Vande Mataram is the equivalent of paying 'homage to a Hindu idol', he, as a true Muslim, cannot 'worship' anyone else apart from Allah. The fallacious nature of his argument apart, the fact remains that Mr Barq had no business dragging his religious beliefs into Parliament, where he has come not as a representive of a religious community. Moreover, if he really felt so strongly about the National Song, he had other ways to register his concern. He could have, for instance, stood aside while the song was being played. But by walking out, Mr Barq sought cheap publicity through the use of his religious identity. But this is not the first time that Mr Barq has played the Muslim card; he had opposed the BSP's 'Jai Bhim' slogan too.
This is also not the first time that Vande Mataram has been criticised for being 'anti-Islamic'. This manufactured controversy goes back to the turbulent decades of the 1930s and 1940s when the country's emergent Muslim leadership was seeking to consolidate its own political base vis-à-vis that of the Congress. By that time, Vande Mataram — Bankim Chandra Chattopadhay's powerful paen to the motherland which had bound the national conscience, Hindus and Muslims alike, during the 1905 Bengal partition — was already being sung at the opening of all Congress sessions. However, when the party wanted to make the song the national anthem, some Muslim leaders objected. In 1937, a sub-committee that included Jawaharlal Nehru and Subhas Chandra Bose reviewed the song, and for the first time in the 1938 Haripura session, only the first two stanzas were played. Even that did little to placate the likes of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, who demanded the song be scrapped.
But while that did not happen, Vande Mataram has remained the favourite punching bag of communal leaders. In 2006, the song's centenary celebrations were hampered after some Muslims complained against a Union Government directive asking all schools to sing the song on September 7. A supine Congress leadership in New Delhi buckled before them, as it had earlier. The question now is: Will it be any different this time around or will Shafiqur Rahman Barq get away with his shocking irreverance?


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