Saturday, September 24, 2011

Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend


Dear Aiyer,
We ourselves are to be blamed.
 
WEDS
From: Gopalkrishnan iyer <iyer_ga@yahoo.com>
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 25 September 2011, 10:05
Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend
With almost 50% of our population living below poverty level and another 20% lower middle class (hand to mouth) the utility of RTI  appears to encompass only the 30% of population in the  affluent class! Among this 10 % constituting highest layers buy not only the information but also the information giver, generator and controller !

From the remaining 20% there could be hardly 3% of the people, possibly like this writer, who look upon RTI as a tool to be used should something somewhere go wrong or as a recourse to fight discrepancy, discrimination, delay, neglect, wrong doings, suppression, inequitable distribution, injustice and so on while the 70% (50+20) mentioned rarely venture into making an application under RTI as the Rs10 application fee is too much to afford, much less the expenses required to be incurred to carry the process till end and a demand to prove one's citizenship is unknown to them which drive them to some one who knows about it, which again would require some amount of money to be spent! One from these lot cannot make seeking information a priority with vehemence!

Assuming without admiting that the PIO's demand is legitimate such querries, which ultimately arrives after 30 days when one eagerly awaits for the information after the mandatory period, is frustrating if not driven to  abandon RTI altogether!

I wonder, after all struggles, whether there is at least one receipient of information which is fully satisfactory!  
 

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 10:55 AM

If the PIO insist on proof and in the absence of the same, refuse to give information, there is no legal remedy available to the applicant as the PIO can and will state that he doubted about the citizenship of the applicant.--- On Wed, 21/9/11, Col NR Kurup <colnrkurup@gmail.com> wrote:> From: Col NR Kurup <colnrkurup@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend> To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com> Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 5:04 AM> Unfortunately we the ciyzens are> helpless against such typical> bureaucratic tactics. If you want information you have no> choice but> to give the proof as only cityzens of India have the right> to> information in India.> > Col NR Kurup> > On 21/09/2011, Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>> wrote:> > Hello all,> >> > You are right, we need not at all give any proof of> Citizenship.> >> > Not interpreting any law, just trying to prevent such> gross nonsense by PIO.> >> > Thanqx.> >> > Jagdeep> >> >>>>> >> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Vikram Simha> > <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>wrote:> >> >> Why should We give the Pan card does it say that> you are a citizen of> >> india> >> in any word or way . Please for God sake do not> create Confusion By> >> interpreting the Law in your own way> >>> >> N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N> Krishna Rao Road ,> >> Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.> >>> >> --- On *Tue, 20/9/11, Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>*> wrote:> >>> >>> >> From: Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new> trend> >> To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com> >> Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 7:38 PM> >>> >>> >> Hello,> >>> >> One way to go around this is to always give a self> attested copy of the> >> PAN> >> card or any other photo identity, so they can't> delay on that ground at> >> least.> >>> >> Thanqx.> >>> >> Jagdeep> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:27 PM, sk alisha> >> <skalisha@gmail.com<http://in.mc1376.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=skalisha@gmail.com>> >> > wrote:> >>> >>> >> ha ha... ha... knowledge is improving against the> rti.> >> alisha> >>> >>> >>> >>

Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend

With almost 50% of our population living below poverty level and another 20% lower middle class (hand to mouth) the utility of RTI  appears to encompass only the 30% of population in the  affluent class! Among this 10 % constituting highest layers buy not only the information but also the information giver, generator and controller !

From the remaining 20% there could be hardly 3% of the people, possibly like this writer, who look upon RTI as a tool to be used should something somewhere go wrong or as a recourse to fight discrepancy, discrimination, delay, neglect, wrong doings, suppression, inequitable distribution, injustice and so on while the 70% (50+20) mentioned rarely venture into making an application under RTI as the Rs10 application fee is too much to afford, much less the expenses required to be incurred to carry the process till end and a demand to prove one's citizenship is unknown to them which drive them to some one who knows about it, which again would require some amount of money to be spent! One from these lot cannot make seeking information a priority with vehemence!

Assuming without admiting that the PIO's demand is legitimate such querries, which ultimately arrives after 30 days when one eagerly awaits for the information after the mandatory period, is frustrating if not driven to  abandon RTI altogether!

I wonder, after all struggles, whether there is at least one receipient of information which is fully satisfactory!  
 

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 10:55 AM

If the PIO insist on proof and in the absence of the same, refuse to give information, there is no legal remedy available to the applicant as the PIO can and will state that he doubted about the citizenship of the applicant.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, Col NR Kurup <colnrkurup@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Col NR Kurup <colnrkurup@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new trend
> To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 5:04 AM
> Unfortunately we the ciyzens are
> helpless against such typical
> bureaucratic tactics. If you want information you have no
> choice but
> to give the proof as only cityzens of India have the right
> to
> information in India.
>
> Col NR Kurup
>
> On 21/09/2011, Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > You are right, we need not at all give any proof of
> Citizenship.
> >
> > Not interpreting any law, just trying to prevent such
> gross nonsense by PIO.
> >
> > Thanqx.
> >
> > Jagdeep
> >
> >>>>
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Vikram Simha
> > <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>wrote:
> >
> >> Why should We give the Pan card does it say that
> you are a citizen of
> >> india
> >> in any word or way . Please for God sake do not
> create Confusion By
> >> interpreting the Law in your own way
> >>
> >> N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N
> Krishna Rao Road ,
> >> Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
> >>
> >> --- On *Tue, 20/9/11, Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>*
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jagdeep DESAI <jagdeep.desai1@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [rti4empowerment] RTI reply - a new
> trend
> >> To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com
> >> Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 7:38 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> One way to go around this is to always give a self
> attested copy of the
> >> PAN
> >> card or any other photo identity, so they can't
> delay on that ground at
> >> least.
> >>
> >> Thanqx.
> >>
> >> Jagdeep
> >>
> >> >>>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:27 PM, sk alisha
> >> <skalisha@gmail.com<http://in.mc1376.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=skalisha@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> ha ha... ha... knowledge is improving against the
> rti.
> >> alisha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend

Hon'ble Central Information Commission, New Delhi have decided similar
issue/cases in Mr Ajit Kumar Vs Llit Kala Akademi (CIC/AD/C/09/00429
dated 08.06.2009) and Sh K. Balakrishnan Pillai Banglore Vs National
Human Rights Commission (CIC/OK/C/2008/0016 dated 26.08.08) wherein
the Public Authority were warned for exercising dilatory tactics and
harassing the information seeker by asking him to prove his
citizenship.


On 9/24/11, JSD PANI <jsdpani@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion,
> though emotion triggers activism.
> Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to
> make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from making applications.
> Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the
> legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens
> of India. Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of
> citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish
> citizenship.
>
> Regards
> JSD Pani
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha
> <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in>wrote:
>
>> Dear Captain ,
>> RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the
>> Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is
>> For
>> ,by & To the people .
>> There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There
>> should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant
>> Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
>> If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender
>> to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
>> The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does
>> not
>> arise .
>> By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are
>> kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
>> Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption
>> and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed
>> and If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict
>> ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain
>> Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
>> Therefore There is a conflict here of the actual practice and RTI Act
>> 2006 Prevails .
>> Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He
>> will
>> Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at
>> the
>> time retirement .
>> Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching
>> or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
>> If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the
>> ID Because i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My
>> JOB
>> Due Have any Counter to this line of argument
>>
>> N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road ,
>> Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in>
>> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM
>>
>>
>> please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen
>> of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle
>> the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions,
>> particularly if one belongs to same deptt.
>> --- On *Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
>> To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>, "Y Humjanenge -
>> yahoo" <humjanenge@yahoogroups.co.in>, "Y Adhikar" <
>> adhikaar@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1@gmail.com>, "Y
>> Aridman" <aridaman@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted@yahoo.com>,
>> "Y rti_india" <rti_india@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <
>> rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <
>> rti4empowerment@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Rti_India"
>> <rti_india@yahoogroups.com>,
>> "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti@yahoogroups.com>, "Y
>> RTI_India - yahoo" <RTI_india@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM
>>
>> M. Rangarajan,
>> *(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
>> B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
>> Chellaghatta village,
>> *Bangalore** – 560037*.
>> *Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
>> *e-mail: rangajan@yahoo.com / rangajan@gmail.com *
>> Dated 20th September 2011
>>
>> Dear friends / RTI activists,
>>
>> I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
>> Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act.
>> I
>> am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
>>
>> The gist of letter is as followes:
>>
>> I quote:
>>
>> In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
>> to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election
>> Identity
>> Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
>> duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
>> procede further.
>>
>> Unquote.
>>
>> I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
>> Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
>> none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled
>> for
>> and illigal new trend.
>>
>> I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
>>
>> warm regards / rangarajan
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JSD Pani
>


--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181

Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend


Dear Pani Ji ,
Unfortunately , No where in the Act or Rules it Is Said /empowred/ delegated/Relegated /Discretion ptovided to demand from any Person by an PIO to his Citizenship. I Have already enumarated in My earlier Mails that InOur Country Each Card is unique and Serves an Purpose .
If I take your argument and Strecth It as Done and Carried by the Government and information commissioners  why are they Demanding the income certioficate from A BPL card Holder because of the Only That it is mentioned "to draw rations only" Like wise None of the Cards Issued to Any Of us Donot speak that we are citizens of india . Even in the Pass port it is written Nationality "INDIAN" which Means you are of Indian Nationality But No mention of Citzenship
Further under the Caption Registration it is Written Indian Citizens resident abroad are advised to register themselves at the nearest Inmdian Mission /post ...... Why is this Written .
Our Final argument is that No PIO or For that Matter Any Public servant  cannot interpret the act Which is soveriegn authority of the Parliament and therefore he is not Empowered to raise these absurd and fillibustrous Queries
I am now in preparation of Long and Lengthy Paper on this Very subject Matter .
It would suffice to state that in One of our Government Departments the Discretion to Spend emergency money as discretion was Rs 100/- and They were spending it even to Bring imprest and postal stamps but one Fine Day During an audit the auditor Said  when the Word is Rs 100/- it is only Upto Hundred so Spending Rs 99.99 is ok But NO No to Rs 100/- as it Violates the Discretionary power , so You Have to Get all others Reimbursed or Get them Approved . So then all our laks & laks of RTI requests in the Country Become Faulty in the sense they donot have Citizen proof of the requesters  and What should Be done Charge all PIOs under the Service /conduct Rules with At least Minority penalty proccedings ---- what an idea sirji ,
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Sat, 24/9/11, JSD PANI <jsdpani@gmail.com> wrote:

From: JSD PANI <jsdpani@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Saturday, 24 September, 2011, 10:49 AM

I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from  making applications. Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens of India.  Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish citizenship.
 
Regards
JSD Pani

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed  and  If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here  of the actual practice  and RTI Act 2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the ID  Because  i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument

N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM


please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.    
--- On Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>, "Y Humjanenge - yahoo" <humjanenge@yahoogroups.co.in>, "Y Adhikar" <adhikaar@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1@gmail.com>, "Y Aridman" <aridaman@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted@yahoo.com>, "Y rti_india" <rti_india@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <rti4empowerment@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Rti_India" <rti_india@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti@yahoogroups.com>, "Y RTI_India - yahoo" <RTI_india@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM

M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.
Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.
 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.
 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan



--
JSD Pani

Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IC MLS not interested in RTI anymore ?

Masala what masala, my God Karira, how could you miss the strong and pungent jalapano? It is real time bomb - "Red Hot Chilie Pepper"! Besides, a few lines which appeared to be sweet, were sugar coated bitter pills. Dont just go by what Sarbajit has posted in this list. Read the scanned images properly and read between the lines. After all bees that have honey in the mouth, have a sting in their tail.

Manoj

--- On Sat, 9/24/11, C K Jam <rtiwanted@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: C K Jam <rtiwanted@yahoo.com>

Dear Mr Sarbajit,

Not much "masala" in those 16 pages !
Yeh dil mange more.

RTIwanted

Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IC MLS not interested in RTI anymore ?

Dear RTIwanted

The masala is there, you just cannot see it.

Hint: Look closely at how I am defending RTI (Act) against foreign financed NCPRI "haramis"

Sarbajit

On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM, C K Jam <rtiwanted@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Sarbajit,

Not much "masala" in those 16 pages !
Yeh dil mange more.

RTIwanted


[HumJanenge] $120b Metro Scam > Modi 3X Mayawati, 40X Indian Railways

$120b Metro Scam > Modi 3X Mayawati, 40X Indian Railways

 

Can't Gujarat fund this Metro project? Yes it can but then who shall fill the demands of Corrupt Gujarat government.

 

Even more interestingly this pigmy looking project is 10 times more in potential loot than even NHAI projects exposed by SK Dubey.

 

When Mayawati allowed Rs.60 crores per kilometer for Yamuna Expressway, Modi has allowed Rs.200 crores per kilometer for Gandhinagar -  Ahmedabad Metro Railway project that is on surface for 18 km. Indian Railways cost per kilometer of track comes to just Rs.5 per kilometer.

 

Just like Mayawati representing a poor state – Modi too is funding the project from sale of land along the track 800 meters on either side.

 

Roughly 35 sq.km of area shall be delivered to Pvt Builders for development or 8750 acres.

 

At Rs.50 crores per acre as developed value per acre – it could be Rs.100 crores considering its location between Gandhinagar and Ahemdabad – the SCAM is worth at least Rs.3,00,000 crores to Rs.6,00,000 crores.

 

Modi is most corrupt considering –

 

- He connived with RIL to hoard Oil & Gas in Offshore blocks resulting in $500b worth of production loss.

 

- He backed down 60 BU of electricity to let pvt companies skim the cream.

 

- He failed to complete Narmada Canal project.

 

- He provided illegal benefits of Rs.10,000 crores to Tata.

 

Ravinder Singh

September24, 2011

 

60% of funds to come from real estate projects

 

TIMES NEWS NETWORK September24, 2011

 

Ahmedabad: A critical aspect of the Rs 3,400 crore metro rail project is that close to 60% of the funding — between Rs 2,000 crore and Rs 2,500 crore — will come from real estate development along the corridor. The urban development department will plan a policy, which involves special development regulations for areas earmarked within a specific radius of the metro corridor.


   The concept called Transit Oriented Development (TOD) means that development within 100 metres and 500 metres to 800 metres around the metro rail may accommodate high-density residential or commercial hubs. These high-density development projects will fuel the metro with people coming to work and living along the corridor.
   To make the metro rail project economically viable, a concept of the metro transporting local freight between destinations within the city is also being proposed. A similar system exists in the US. Sources claim that the metro can tap 15-18% of freight movement within the Ahmedabad, which happens on weekdays.


   Besides, senior officers at MEGA pointed out that the height of the metro rail elevated corridor would not be as high as they are in Delhi. This has been decided keeping in mind the future need of building multi-level flyovers. In addition, MEGA is planning a broad-gauge network.

Corridor space finalized

"Only two pieces of land remain to be acquired for the project," an AMC official said. "These are a plot near a CNG pump station in Ranip and a small piece of land near a heritage structure under the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) in Paldi." The total metro route will be 32.65 kilometres while the Gandhinagar–Koba circle will be 18 kilometres, he said.

 

Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IC MLS not interested in RTI anymore ?

Dear Mr Sarbajit,

Not much "masala" in those 16 pages !
Yeh dil mange more.

RTIwanted



From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: IC MLS not interested in RTI anymore ?

Attached are about second 8 (of 16) pages of "CONFIDENTIAL" information

Sarbajit



Friday, September 23, 2011

Re: [HumJanenge] Democracy Best But Indian Democracy on One Leg, Advani 2014 Ready

Col Thakur
 
                Here is the attaachment.  Read the contents thoughtfully. I would appreciate your comments on the proposal especially about th workability.  If you feel there are any shortcomings in the implmentation, please do mention them.
 
                                               Israel Jayakaran, Chennai.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Democracy Best But Indian Democracy on One Leg, Advani 2014 Ready

DEAR COL JAYAKARAN,

I AGREE WITH YOUR VIEWS. I SUGGEST LET US FORM GROUP OF LIKE MINDED PEOPLE  LIKE MINDED
PEOPLE TO CONTEST 2014 GEN ELECTIONS.

YOUR ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND ,PLEASE SEND IT AGAIN ON MY PERSONAL E-ID ALSO.

REGARDS

COL THAKUR SINGH 
09873379995
HIMACHAL PRADESH

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Ravinder Singh <corruptionfree04@gmail.com> wrote:

Democracy Best But Indian Democracy on One Leg, Advani 2014 Ready 

 

Friends,

It is highly erroneous to say Democracy is not working anywhere – when it is actually working exceptionally well for centuries. It is mischief firstly to say economic problems in Developed Countries are due to failure of Democracy when it is due to very high cost of natural resource these countries consume, very high wages that has hurt their economies, second it not India that brought about their downfall but mainly Asian Tiger Economies led by China and thirdly undeveloped India too is heading for economic disaster as factories are shutting down here and equipment of major projects and consumer goods are sourced from China.

 

This is the biggest national tragedy that Indian Democracy didn't face any real competition from opposition all these post Independence Self Rule. Maximum seats in Lok Sabha won by No.2 party are just 180 in 545 member parliament that has reduced to just 116 in 14 General Elections.

 

No discussion will be fruitful if we ignore L.K. Advani running Marathon 23000 day political race to become Prime Minister of India. In the mean while since he founded BJS in 1951, Ghosts who were not really in race became PM, Lal Bahadur Shastri, Indira Gandhi, Morarjee Desai, Ch. Charan Singh, Rajiv Gandhi, VP Singh, Chander Shekhar, Narsimha Rao, Dev Gauda, I.K. Gujral, Atal B. Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh all became PM unexpectedly or accidentally.

 

If LK. Advani wish to register with Guinness Book of World Records he can find his place among 'Record Holders' for Longest Tenure as Opposition Leader and Longest tenure waiting to become Prime Minister.

 

It is real tragedy to learn L.K. Advani has declared himself as Official BJP Leader and PM Candidate for 2014 General Election when we are discussing limiting tenure of our MPs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._K._Advani

http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/Members/Biography.aspx?mpsno=9

LK Advani was GS of Karachi unit of RSS in 1947 and was founder of BJS in 1951 that we know presently as BJP. Going through his official biography it is evident that this top leader of No. 2 Party could become Metropolitan Council head in 1967 after losing so many elections.

 

L.K. Advani couldn't win first Lok Sabha birth even after dissolving BJS in 1977 to form Janta Party and was Minister from Rajya Sabha during Janta Party rule. BJP was reduced to 2 seats in 1980 election.

 

He was first elected to 9th Lok Sabha in 1989. He had presently already enjoyed 6 terms of Lok Sabha and aspiring for 7th and 4 terms of Rajya Sabha.

 

This most disgraceful Loser in Lok Sabha was sent to Rajya Sabha by elected winner members of his party's juniors in states on four occasions.

 

Advani even after winning the first Lok Sabha birth in 1989 was not accepted by majority non Congress Parties and was for two years Leader of the Opposition.  

 

Advani won second time 1991 to celebrate his second Lok Sabha win was to go on Rath Yatra with aim to demolish Babri Mosque and unfold communal agenda. There was No Corruption, There was no Black Money, There was no Cow Slaughter, There was no 370, There was no Farmers Suicide, There was no 500 million Hungry Souls bothering him.

 

He lost Lok Sabha again in 1996 but won again third term in 1998 and this time 'Exploding 5 Nuclear Bombs' was his priority. Soon there was Kargil war and for next 5-6 years Indian Army was in eyeball to eyeball contact with Pakistan Army.

 

He won yet again 1999 with agenda to introduce Ambanis in to Oil & Gas, Refineries, Telecom, Retail, Power, Insurance etc.

 

People didn't accept BJP rule was defeated but he was ready as Opposition Leader for five years. This time he opposed Nuclear Power even as all BJP ruled states wanted Nuclear Power.

 

Lost again in 2009 but strategy was changed this time – Advani engaged Gadkari to defame Prime Minister and planted Sushma Swaraj as leader in Lok Sabha and indirectly hired Ramdev, Bhushans, Anna to undertake Lokpal bill when all BJP states had no Lok Pal or Lame Duck Lokpal in Santosh Hedge.

 

His party didn't win a single seat in this year's State Elections.

 

Conclusions:  -

 

- Indian No.2 Party politically had no Development Agenda.

 

- Party No.2 was always creating MISCHIEF than fulfilling Constitutional Function as main opposition party demanding equitable distribution of resources and selection on the basis of merit at all levels.

 

- Indira Gandhi and her daughter in law Sonia experienced toughest political battles while other Prime Ministers were propped up by accident or little maneuvering.

 

- None explained in detail their Economic Agenda.

 

- Major political initiatives like Black Money and Corruption need CONSENSUS among Political Parties that is absent in India so far.

 

Ravinder Singh

Sepember22, 2011

 

J S Ahuja <brig_ahuja@yahoo.co.in>

 

Democracy is the best if Transparency, Accountability, Responsibility and practically no Flexibility form part of the governing system.


For example the Commissioner of a Municipal Corporation should be made accountable for the pot holes on the roads, water stagnating in low lying areas, garbage is lying scattered in open. Things will change over night with very little scope of corruption.

 

M K Singhal <mk.singhal@yahoo.co.in>

 

Can some one elucidate what is part less democracy. Do we have any precedant in any country.

 

I agree that party based democracy is not conducive to healthy governance and some rethinking about functioning of democracy is needed.

Mksinghal

 

J S Ahuja <brig_ahuja@yahoo.co.in>

 

The main reason for the present day situation is spoiled bureaucracy befooling public,media and politicians during the last 64 years . Make them accountable todat ,things will change tomorrow.

 

IJ's Message >>>

 

Sarbajit,

 

           I feel the villain of all these happenings is our "political system," viz, party type democracy. (You know in Tamil Nadu alone, there are 54 parties !) The current system keeps the intellectuals away from politics.  Actually, the intellectuals shun to fight the elections and the political party bosses will not nominate them for elections.

 

            Let's have the highly competent Indians above the age of 55 at the helm of affairs and they need to serve only one Lok Sabha terms and thereafter retire. We need to identify such personalities and compel them to stand for elections. The election system will have to be modified and the candidates concerned are not to invest any money. Only four or five candidates per constituency will be selected by a Citizens' council to stand for elections. The government should do the publicity for them. The cost of election to a candidate will be next to nil and money will play no part in the Indian elections at all. In this system, all and sundry cannot stand for elections but only those nominated by the Citizens council which will consist of Indians with competence and several achievements to their credit. Let the system not depend on party wise numbers but in numbers based on truth, conscience and the best interest of the nation.  The criminals and vagabonds and incompetent persons will never step into the Lok Sabha by this approach.  

 

                                    Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd) Signals, Chennai, India.

Hello Jai,

 

         Our party type democracy is not flourishing because an MP views every legislation from his  personal point of view  - (a) will it benefit him, will it make him rich, will it make him continue in office (b) is it in the interest of his party.  No one thinks if a legislation will be in the interest of his country?

 

         So, let us go over to a party less type of democracy whereof only the intellectuals participate.  Next, restrict the tenure to one term. Next, keep politics open only for people beyond 55 years.

 

                                        Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), Signals

 

Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com> 

 

      Dear Sir,

      Not only our Democracy is not doing well but Democracy is not doing well and never will. The base of Democracy is COMPETITION. Where Competition is involved, Selfless Service will be the victim. This has been proved again & again. Can you show Democracy functioning well in any country even now?

 

      Kindly also note that except time nothing has changed from Mahabhaarat times. Only Man has changed (and become worse) Man to be peaceful and comfortable needs his worries taken away by his leaders. For that leaders need to be selfless. Under Competitive environment can you find ANY selfless leader?

 

      Read my e-mail again and ponder over before deciding, I pray.

 

      With regards to all,

 

      -------Mukund Apte

 

Dear Mukund,

 

             Your thinking is exactly like mine as regards the functioning of our Indian Democracy.  But you cannot deny the fact that several democratic institutions like election commission, Supeme court etc have taken deep roots. But I agree the right people are not sitting in the Lok Sabha. In fact, the intellectuals keep away from politics.  We need to pull them in. In my opinion, India is not suitable for multi party democracy at all. We need a different system altogether and yet within the mechanism of democracy.

 

             I have writtena paper on a modified form of democracy for India and  have given it  at the attachment. Please do read it and let me have your views.  I am convinced that this is a far better system and Anna Hazaree may work on this concept.

 

             Regards

 

                                 Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd), Signals, Chennai,

 


Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend

I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from  making applications. Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens of India.  Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish citizenship.
 
Regards
JSD Pani

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <vikramsimha54@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed  and  If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here  of the actual practice  and RTI Act 2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the ID  Because  i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument

N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM


please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.    
--- On Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>, "Y Humjanenge - yahoo" <humjanenge@yahoogroups.co.in>, "Y Adhikar" <adhikaar@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1@gmail.com>, "Y Aridman" <aridaman@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted@yahoo.com>, "Y rti_india" <rti_india@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <rti4empowerment@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Rti_India" <rti_india@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti@yahoogroups.com>, "Y RTI_India - yahoo" <RTI_india@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM

M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.
Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.
 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.
 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan



--
JSD Pani

Re: [HumJanenge] Launch HumJanenge FORUMS (sub-groups) for non-RTI discussions

Dear Mr Pandya

All this anti-corruption dialogue on HJ mailing list is causing those members who are on this group for RTI related discussion to be quite irritated.

On the HJ FORUM website we are simply providing a SEPARATE platform for some of our members to take the anti-corruption discussions to. In the process the volume of irrelevant emails to this RTI e-group will reduce drastically and we can be focussed on this group's primary purpose - RTI - which is being sorely neglected with all this anti-corruption nonsense.

All anti-corruption people should register here and start posting.
http://humjanenge.org.in/news/

Sarbajit

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:48 PM, HG PANDYA <hgpandya@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Roy, but even if they will drag this group for their mindset, so pl. don't do that. They may set up their own group, or else sub group must not list the same mailing list of u......ok


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Members

Many of you have desired that forum(s) / "sub-groups" of like-minded members should exist to frankly discuss topical issues such as corruption / governance etc. I may also add that the posts to this mailing-list in the past few months has polarised our members.

ACCORDINGLY, we have activated the HUMJANENGE FORUM(S) on our (much under-utilised) website (http://humjanenge.org.in)

Kindly register at the following link to the News / Forum area:

http://humjanenge.org.in/news/

After that you can CREATE YOUR OWN BOARDS / FORUM, and we will give you moderatorship privileges for THAT forum(s).

So Mr M.K.Gupta, or Mr. Sant Mathur or Mr Ravinder Singh etc can set up their own forums / sub-groups and even make each other moderators.

As this facility does not come cheap. I shall pay for it for the next 1 year.

Sarbajit








RE: [HumJanenge] Can't We Question Modi Claims?

 I feel that irrespective of religion on must apprecaite a person based on his work rather his religion.
warm regards

Devesh
 

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:08:53 +0530
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Can't We Question Modi Claims?
From: hgpandya@gmail.com
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

I find so many questions false and depending on probability, but I cant find time to contribute point by point, and more over Ravinder is having only sight for Modi or BJP that is more questionable. If the same sight is developed for other cases he may find more even. He must work hard for the cases already in Supreme court.
Any way these r the debatable issues.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Ravinder Singh <corruptionfree04@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sh Sant ji,

I fully agree with you that we need experts to lead the discussions who understand the subject. We should converge on the good ideas and fight menace of Corruption, Loot and Exploitation in India unitedly.

 

My approach is to thoroughly research a subject over 2-3 hours and then post the conclusions with relevant source also to make sure others pick up the issue in 2-5 minutes and are not required similar exersion.

 

The advantage with research Modi is that Gujarat is the only state that post most of its working on the internet.

 

And Modi tends to make experiments with say check dams etc. He offers lots of materials to press and professionals.

 

And Gujarat tends to take up Mega Projects like KG Basin projects, Narmada Project, Refineries etc with big political ambitions that also attracts special attention.

 

Ravinder Singh


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sh Ravinderji I respect you(as I do of all thev esteemed members) and your searching queries.No questions about that at all.
 You might tend to agree thatt here're just innumerable areas to question and set right.The same could be prioritised,as also put in some cascading order so that response to the high-priority one's might possibly automatically provide response to the dependent one's.
We need to have sub-groups to tackle different areas of respective expertise,rather than a free-for-all type of approach of dealing with all and sundry subjects,and thus lose focus and content-richness.
An overarching approach would let us all drown in the sea of questions,with little time/energy to provide succour.
   Is that possible?
spm

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam <mukhtaralam2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ravinder ji, Many thanks for sending an insightful list of questions that we do not ask in order to ensure probity in governance.
 
Muhammad Mukhtar Alam,Ph.D.
Managing online networks for Movement for Transition to Post Carbon Green India http://transitionurbanindia.ning.com  ,Ecostrategic Communicators for Carbon-Neutral Leisure  http://ecostrategiccommunicators.ning.com
and Champions of Indian Muslim Economic Development Agency http://imedaindia.ning.com
Papers and Presentations at http://slideshare.net/mukhtaralam
Tel:+9968345380

From: Ravinder Singh <corruptionfree04@gmail.com>
To: Ravinder Singh <progressindia008@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2011 8:22 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] Can't We Question Modi Claims?

Dear Sant Mathur,
I really don't know whether we are allowed to comment on anything -
everything in India is termed political.

Every single message i write is based on actual study of actual
reports downloaded and saved. Not a single line is false or fabicated.

I am a top technical expert and inventor.

in eight years I had interacted with Thousands of of engineers and
none could find anything wrong.

Actually I provide direct link to relevant documents.

In one of the messages I provided link to latest Gujarat SER 2011 -
Gujarat contributes just 7% to our GDP but ad says 10%. Shall we
ignore it?

Shall we ignore the facts that RIL & GSPC had taken 30 huge
Exploration Blocks by 2001 - more since than more than 500,000 sq.km
Offshore Area but had to this day developed not even 200 Sq.km in 12
years?

Shall we not question why CAG didn't calculate Production Losses that
could be $500b?

Shall we not question why CAG didn't recommend Re-auctioning of
Unexplored block being hoarded by RIL and GSPC?

Shall we not question failure of Gujarat to complete Sardar Sarovar
Projects Irrigation component that is over designed many times - CAG
discovered just 6.56% new command could be irrigated than envisaged?

But when Food Production is virtually stagnant Gujarat claims highest
Growth rate?

CAG also found when other states were operating power plants at 80% to
90% PLF Gujarat operated at 66% and backed down 30 BU of power in 5
Years, my estmate is Gujarat back down 60 BU since 2001.

Sant Mathur ji, It is common to see State Roadways buses running
behing Private Buses but it unique Power Generators and Oil & Gas
blocks were not developed to favor RIL and Private Operators.

I also important here to state - Gujarat, Rajjasthan or Karnataka
didn't object to Nuclear Reactors already in their states yet BJP
opposed Civil Nuclear Deal. Later Punjab, Orissa, Bihar demanded
Nuclear Projects.

Why does a party that lost the elections since independence and could
achieve 33% seats in Lok Sabha or only six year always play mischief
and shame India?

Why don't they engaged qualiied and learned officers like you than
collaborating with Reddy Brothers?

Is this accepatble in demoracy?

Have you compared biodata of Manmohan Singh with Narendara Modi?

Have you ever tried to figure out successes and failures of Gujarat
and who were behind successes and failures?

Was Modi responsible for approving Bt Cotton in Gujarat?

Was Modi responsible for success of Gems & Jewelry buisnesses?

Was Modi responsible for RIL Refineries?

Is Modi not responsble for Hoarding Oil & Gas it bid through GSPC?

Is Modi not responsible for Bunglings in Power Projects?

Is Modi not responsible for failure of Narmada Canal Project?

Is Modi not responsible for Severe Shortage of Medicines in Hospitals
- CAG Report?

Didn't Modi, Railways connived in allowing 2200 sevaks travelling in
Sabarmati Express without ticket? Didn't they create any Mischief over
3-4 days Up & Down between Ahemdabad to Ayodhya and back to Ahemdabad?

Where were 2200 Sevaks when fight broke out between Vendors and
Sevaks? Godhra was first stop in Gujarat?

Did Modi apporoved their Mission to Ayodhya?

These are unanswered questions?

If you as an DGP would try to answer you will come to my conclusions.

You should look ahead not behind.

regards

Ravinder Singh
Inventor & Engineer
September20, 2011






Re: [HumJanenge] Can't We Question Modi Claims?

Can some one help compile most important current and past scams/rackets/scandals,and see what happened,is happening or is likely to happen,and most importantly,SHOULD happen?
Cloud sourcing could help do it slowly.
What lessons were supposed to be learnt at different stages and why,and to what extent weren't learnt,and who all are responsible for the same?It virtually amounts to doing a bit of SYSTEM's study,or adopt most celebrated SYSTEM;s approach in understanding the complex issue(s) and then trying to work out the most workable solution(s).
       Not doing so would mean losing out on the opportunity(even in adversity) given to us to play our part the best possible way.We can and shouldn't be seen by our ownselves,much lees the succeeding generations,as lazy bones,or indifferent lot.
                      Its not to lose track of the current affairs and hitting hard at the wrong-doers.That we should.But the more capable intellengetia can take up strategic positions.
                   Any takers?
spm IPS DGP retd
BE MBA PhD
9841282324

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:08 PM, HG PANDYA <hgpandya@gmail.com> wrote:
I find so many questions false and depending on probability, but I cant find time to contribute point by point, and more over Ravinder is having only sight for Modi or BJP that is more questionable. If the same sight is developed for other cases he may find more even. He must work hard for the cases already in Supreme court.
Any way these r the debatable issues.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Ravinder Singh <corruptionfree04@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sh Sant ji,

I fully agree with you that we need experts to lead the discussions who understand the subject. We should converge on the good ideas and fight menace of Corruption, Loot and Exploitation in India unitedly.

 

My approach is to thoroughly research a subject over 2-3 hours and then post the conclusions with relevant source also to make sure others pick up the issue in 2-5 minutes and are not required similar exersion.

 

The advantage with research Modi is that Gujarat is the only state that post most of its working on the internet.

 

And Modi tends to make experiments with say check dams etc. He offers lots of materials to press and professionals.

 

And Gujarat tends to take up Mega Projects like KG Basin projects, Narmada Project, Refineries etc with big political ambitions that also attracts special attention.

 

Ravinder Singh


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Sant Mathur <santmathur@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sh Ravinderji I respect you(as I do of all thev esteemed members) and your searching queries.No questions about that at all.
 You might tend to agree thatt here're just innumerable areas to question and set right.The same could be prioritised,as also put in some cascading order so that response to the high-priority one's might possibly automatically provide response to the dependent one's.
We need to have sub-groups to tackle different areas of respective expertise,rather than a free-for-all type of approach of dealing with all and sundry subjects,and thus lose focus and content-richness.
An overarching approach would let us all drown in the sea of questions,with little time/energy to provide succour.
   Is that possible?
spm

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Dr.Muhammad Mukhtar Alam <mukhtaralam2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ravinder ji, Many thanks for sending an insightful list of questions that we do not ask in order to ensure probity in governance.
 
Muhammad Mukhtar Alam,Ph.D.
Managing online networks for Movement for Transition to Post Carbon Green India http://transitionurbanindia.ning.com  ,Ecostrategic Communicators for Carbon-Neutral Leisure  http://ecostrategiccommunicators.ning.com
and Champions of Indian Muslim Economic Development Agency http://imedaindia.ning.com
Papers and Presentations at http://slideshare.net/mukhtaralam
Tel:+9968345380

From: Ravinder Singh <corruptionfree04@gmail.com>
To: Ravinder Singh <progressindia008@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2011 8:22 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] Can't We Question Modi Claims?

Dear Sant Mathur,
I really don't know whether we are allowed to comment on anything -
everything in India is termed political.

Every single message i write is based on actual study of actual
reports downloaded and saved. Not a single line is false or fabicated.

I am a top technical expert and inventor.

in eight years I had interacted with Thousands of of engineers and
none could find anything wrong.

Actually I provide direct link to relevant documents.

In one of the messages I provided link to latest Gujarat SER 2011 -
Gujarat contributes just 7% to our GDP but ad says 10%. Shall we
ignore it?

Shall we ignore the facts that RIL & GSPC had taken 30 huge
Exploration Blocks by 2001 - more since than more than 500,000 sq.km
Offshore Area but had to this day developed not even 200 Sq.km in 12
years?

Shall we not question why CAG didn't calculate Production Losses that
could be $500b?

Shall we not question why CAG didn't recommend Re-auctioning of
Unexplored block being hoarded by RIL and GSPC?

Shall we not question failure of Gujarat to complete Sardar Sarovar
Projects Irrigation component that is over designed many times - CAG
discovered just 6.56% new command could be irrigated than envisaged?

But when Food Production is virtually stagnant Gujarat claims highest
Growth rate?

CAG also found when other states were operating power plants at 80% to
90% PLF Gujarat operated at 66% and backed down 30 BU of power in 5
Years, my estmate is Gujarat back down 60 BU since 2001.

Sant Mathur ji, It is common to see State Roadways buses running
behing Private Buses but it unique Power Generators and Oil & Gas
blocks were not developed to favor RIL and Private Operators.

I also important here to state - Gujarat, Rajjasthan or Karnataka
didn't object to Nuclear Reactors already in their states yet BJP
opposed Civil Nuclear Deal. Later Punjab, Orissa, Bihar demanded
Nuclear Projects.

Why does a party that lost the elections since independence and could
achieve 33% seats in Lok Sabha or only six year always play mischief
and shame India?

Why don't they engaged qualiied and learned officers like you than
collaborating with Reddy Brothers?

Is this accepatble in demoracy?

Have you compared biodata of Manmohan Singh with Narendara Modi?

Have you ever tried to figure out successes and failures of Gujarat
and who were behind successes and failures?

Was Modi responsible for approving Bt Cotton in Gujarat?

Was Modi responsible for success of Gems & Jewelry buisnesses?

Was Modi responsible for RIL Refineries?

Is Modi not responsble for Hoarding Oil & Gas it bid through GSPC?

Is Modi not responsible for Bunglings in Power Projects?

Is Modi not responsible for failure of Narmada Canal Project?

Is Modi not responsible for Severe Shortage of Medicines in Hospitals
- CAG Report?

Didn't Modi, Railways connived in allowing 2200 sevaks travelling in
Sabarmati Express without ticket? Didn't they create any Mischief over
3-4 days Up & Down between Ahemdabad to Ayodhya and back to Ahemdabad?

Where were 2200 Sevaks when fight broke out between Vendors and
Sevaks? Godhra was first stop in Gujarat?

Did Modi apporoved their Mission to Ayodhya?

These are unanswered questions?

If you as an DGP would try to answer you will come to my conclusions.

You should look ahead not behind.

regards

Ravinder Singh
Inventor & Engineer
September20, 2011