Friday, January 6, 2017

Re: [IAC#RG] COMPLAINT : CASHLESS FRAUDs

Dear All,

Various opinion polls are predicting BJP win in UP, Uttarakhand and Goa.

I traveled to UP and Uttarakhand in  November. I found even erstwhile BJP supporters cursing Modi barring of course some staunch supporters of the BJP. 

That said, my view is as under on the "Opinion Polls": 

The voter today is very clever. He won't give away his mind to the pollsters. 

Case in sight is that of Delhi polls. Opinion polls and pollsters had predicted 32 seats for the BJP and 28 for the AAP. And we all know how far this was from the reality. AAP got 60 and the BJP a single digit - a meagre three. 

Another reason being people who suffered due to demonetisation think speaking against the BJP and Modi on camera or otherwise may be inviting more troubles - which they cannot afford to have - having already been troubled. 

In fact Modi and Co has created "Fear Psychosis" in the public - like Hitler had done. Even media is gripped with this "fear psychosis". 

That is why even the media perhaps is intentionally showing such results just to please Modi - the way sycophants do. This does not augur well for a democracy. 

People are waiting for the polls. 

Time will tell the story. Let's wait for the poll results. 

Col MG Kapoor

Sent from my iPhone

On 06-Jan-2017, at 7:11 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

To:

1) Shri Narendra Modi
Dishonourable Prime Minister of India

2) Shri Urjit R Patel
Dishonourable Governor of Reserve Bank of India

I second the views of Dr. Bodapati and Col MG Kapoor expressed below communicated to Govt of India today concerning "cashless" frauds.

In this connection, please see the inline 100% genuine picture below taken from PAYTM website by me today. PayTM openly says Rs. 2.29 is removed each time a citizen uses his debit card with PAYTM for a Rs.100 transaction.

Please also explain why Rs. 5,000 crores of new currency were airlifted by RBI to Lucknow and Kanpur just 2 days before Prime Minister's  speech there on December 19, 2016, and while there was no cash money available elsewhere in India on that date every bank of Kanpur was overflowing with new notes which were mainly given to BJP workers and MLAs ?

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/amid-cash-crunch-a-mysterious-5-000-crore-influx-in-poll-bound-uttar-pradesh-1641382

Is this why women and mothers are having to strip naked in front of of Reserve Bank of India offices and banks after being denied their money and after standing in line outside RBI for days running ?

Sarbajit Roy
Honorable Citizen of Hindustan
National Convenor
India Against Corruption
B-59 Defence Colony
New Delhi 110024

<rsz_paywithpaytm_-_free_payments_gateway_-_payment_solution_for_every_business_-_india_2017-01-06_18-45-01.jpg>
​

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Ramarao V. Bodapati <rbodapati@hotmail.com> wrote:
Fwdd by B V Ramarao, PhD, for our
noble PM's Information and needed action
 
From: mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 17:30:29 +0530
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] CASHLESS FOOLS

Dear All,

I just returned after buying some items of stationery. The amount
payable was 653/-. I offered to pay by debit card or credit card - whatever was acceptable to the vendor. Vendor stated that I shall have to pay 2% over and
above the bill. On my query as to why, vendor replied that he is being
charged 2% by the debit / credit card companies. I insisted on paying through
card as I did not have enough cash and that I won't pay extra 2%. I told him
that there was a waiver of such charge for six months. He insisted that SBI
was charging him 2% on payments received through debit cards.

Anyway, seeing me adamant he agreed to charge the actual bill amount.

Here the story begins.

First he took my card and recorded complete detail of my debit card
on the computer and printed the cash memo. I objected to this. He then
offered to delete the details from the printed copies!

I again objected to that saying those details still existed on
the computer file. 

He then told me that he deleted the file (as per his version - though
I am not very sure if he actually deleted the card details from the
computer). 

Now the most interesting part. He inserted the card into the machine
and fed the amount which is not visible to us. I entered the pin. And
there you are - payment successful! 

I got the SMS alert from the Bank. I just wanted to show to him that
I had got the SMS alert - thus proving my bonafides.

And then came the horror. The amount charged was 6530/- instead of 653/-.

It could be a genuine mistake. It could well be, in the hands of
a dishonest vendor, an intentional fraud.

What if the card details still exist in the computer?

What if cyber crooks hack details of my card as also details of cards of
other buyers existing in the computer?

What if Bank SMS alert did not come in time?

What if I had not checked the SMS alert?

What, if after making the payment, I had walked away,
had I been a temporary visitor in the station?

I had always maintained that the Banks, Paytm and other such like Portals
charge transaction fee. The vendor also told that to transfer money from
Paytm account to his Bank account something like 4 to 5% charge is
levied by Paytm. 

In cash transactions such like mistakes rarely happen. One counts the cash,
any discrepancy is settled there and then.

The vendor offered to pay back the difference through. cheque - which
I declined as I am leaving for outstation. He then paid the difference through
cash.

Do you feel the gullible farmer / daily wage earner / unorganised industry labour / small time worker who is rather illiterate or not  well educated will not fall prey to such frauds, if the vendor is dishonest? 

Zara sochiye! 

MG Kapoor
Sent from my iPhone
========================================================
On 06-Jan-2017, at 2:08 PM, Madhav Nalapat <mdnalapat@gmail.com> wrote:

Almost 80 per cent  of black money flows through banking channels. Through methods such as under invoicing and over invoicing. Through multiple accounts now made easier via Aadhar. Cash forms a very small part of the total. What has happened is that those laundering illicit cash have kept 15 to 20 per cent from the holders. Those who regard the November 8 move as having reduced the black economy are in a dream world                

Sent from my iPhone
===========================================================
On Jan 4, 2017, at 21:28, Samir Srivastava <srivant.samir@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
  First let me clarify my understanding of cashless transaction and economy. When one pay by ATM/Debit/Credit Card or Cheque, then that is cashless transaction. When Cash is COMPLETELY out of the ECONOMY of a geographical area then it is (COMPLETE ) CASHLESS ECONOMY.
 
  #1) We can have similar accountability to govt in Soft Earning Unit (SEU) also. My proposal is maintain everything as such just remove the cash completely from the system. 

  #2) SEU must statutorily be exchanged for "value" . If someone finds SEU is of lesser value, then instead of keeping it with earning keeper, one can invest in SEU of other geographical area or precious metals etc.

  #3) RBI can regulate SEU also. IMHO, please go through the paper and slides on my blog http://samirsrivastava.typepad.com/ carefully. The thing which you described as magic cannot happen without HELP from customs/ govt officials. If hard currency is gone, then these magic will not happen. Moreover if you want when the internet traffic goes out of the country to "suspected web-sites" that can be avoided ISP need to implement policies.

  IMHO, The parallel economy (due to un-traceability of hard currency) is biggest hindrance in making effective economic policies. In SEU you can make effective economic policies.

  I am refraining from commenting on other political noises.

Thanks 
Samir Srivastava

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Certain people (fools) are busy promoting cashless transactiions and
removing currency totally from the economy, without understanding the
implications.

#1 CASH / CURRENCY is a measure of the liability the Government has to
the people of India.  In simple terms.CURRENCY is a measure of how
much the Government owes to the citizens.Removing Currency implies
that Government owes people nothing and can do what they want and
print money at will.

MORAL -> FASCIST Govts desperately want currency and autonomous
Central Banks eliminated.

# 2 CURRENCY Notes must statutorily be exchanged for "value" - ie.
valuable coin. Previously this was gold, now its a mix of metals like
copper and stainless steel. The difference between the intrinsic value
(ie. metal price in open market) of the coin and its face value is the
Govt's tax (called "seignorage"). Typically whenever seignorage
exceeds 25-30% the public rejects paper currency in favour of stronger
currencies and there is monetary inflation. At present India's
seignorage is 70%. No wonder the India Rupee has depreciated 100%
against Dollar because smart Indians are "exporting" their value.

MORAL -> A Rafale fighter jet costs 2x what it did during Congress
time because we now have a chaiwala as PM instead of a former RBI
Governor.

# 3 If there is no currency, then there is also no need for RBI (whose
only role is to regulate currency and money supply).  If there are no
Indian currency notes then people will devise ways and means (also
called Internet APPS) to ensure that transactions take place on
foreign websites in foreign currency but goods are "magically"
delivered in India. This is already happening Udtaa Punjab.

MORAL --> Why would anybody pay in Indian rupees on Indian websites if
a foreign supplier will anonymously deliver the goods to you without
bill after you have paid in dollars or Yen or BITCOIN ? The whole
online Pharmacy racket works on this principle.

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in


Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: WHITHER MR. MODI’S ANTI CORRUPTION WAR ?

Dear friends,
The corruption  started  from parliament. Mr. Modi ji silence  on parliament and put cloud  burst  on common  people. During  the sixty  days who died corrupted  people  or innocent  people?.  In 1969 Smt. Indira Gandhi  banned  corporate  donation  to political  parties but in1985 her son shri. Rajeev Gandhi made legalised corporate  donations. Afer corruption  rapidly  increased  in India. The corporate  donations  caused  anti mandal movement change  of Shri. V. P. SINGH and Sh. Chandrasekhar  from  PM posts. Later started purchasing  of MPs in parliament  and ask questions in the parliament and around  the MPs all over  world  freely  with corporate  donations  and money. The MPs without  attend  parliament  draw  salaries  and TA and DA. How the  PM and Rahul Gandhi  honest  to nation? In the country   so many people  working  16 hours  to 20 hours. Once ask theirs monthly  salaries. In 2015 MODI ji put gold coat.
SangeethaRao.

Every politician over the ages has been stating from roof tops that the corrupt will not be spared. Implementation has always been, as also of now, tardy and selective.

Common man is effected by corruption at the level of Havaldar, Patwari, Kanungo, Trfc policeman, clerks in various govt offices. I do not know how demonetisation is going to stop these functionaries from keeping on demand for money.

Higher level corruption flows down from election expenditure and politicians. Hoe demonetisation will stop it without election reforms is not understandable.

R.N.Malhotra


--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 1/1/17, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [IAC#RG] Fwd: WHITHER MR. MODI'S ANTI CORRUPTION WAR ?
 To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
 Date: Sunday, January 1, 2017, 6:18 PM


 To
 India Against
 Corruption

                          
                   WHITHER  MR. MODI'S 
 ANTI  CORRUPTION  WAR ?

 The question uppermost in the
 mind of the people now is whether Mr. Modi would really
 succeed in ensuring a corruption free India. Large number of
 people appear to be still sceptical, though they think that
 Mr. Modi is very sincere and they wish him
 well.
 With the government machinery
 and the law enforcing agencies themselves  considerably
 corrupt, with many politicians both in Mr. Modi's party
 and in the opposition parties suspected to be of indulging
 in corrupt practices and with the  black money  becoming
 an essential need for the political parties to fight
 elections, many people seem to think that Mr. Modi may be
 waging a losing battle against corruption. However, the redeeming fact
 that has come out after the demonetization exercise is
  that the people are willing to stand by Mr. Modi in his
 battle. They expect him to give a very strong lead for the
 anti corruption movement in India and people would follow if
 it would be practically possible.
 Mr. Modi's New Year eve
 speech on 31st December,2016 certainly has made
 people think that here is a Prime Minister who has the
 courage to say that dishonest and corrupt officials will not
 be spared.
 Mr. Modi has certainly
 kindled  hope amongst common men  that the anti corruption
 movement would go forward and would  succeed sooner or
 later.
 N.S.VenkataramanNandini Voice For The
 Deprivednandinivoice.com 
                                  
                                        
                                
   


 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

 Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
 Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
 Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
 Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
 WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Posted by at No comments:

[IAC#RG] COMPLAINT : CASHLESS FRAUDs

To:

1) Shri Narendra Modi
Dishonourable Prime Minister of India

2) Shri Urjit R Patel
Dishonourable Governor of Reserve Bank of India

I second the views of Dr. Bodapati and Col MG Kapoor expressed below communicated to Govt of India today concerning "cashless" frauds.

In this connection, please see the inline 100% genuine picture below taken from PAYTM website by me today. PayTM openly says Rs. 2.29 is removed each time a citizen uses his debit card with PAYTM for a Rs.100 transaction.

Please also explain why Rs. 5,000 crores of new currency were airlifted by RBI to Lucknow and Kanpur just 2 days before Prime Minister's  speech there on December 19, 2016, and while there was no cash money available elsewhere in India on that date every bank of Kanpur was overflowing with new notes which were mainly given to BJP workers and MLAs ?

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/amid-cash-crunch-a-mysterious-5-000-crore-influx-in-poll-bound-uttar-pradesh-1641382

Is this why women and mothers are having to strip naked in front of of Reserve Bank of India offices and banks after being denied their money and after standing in line outside RBI for days running ?

Sarbajit Roy
Honorable Citizen of Hindustan
National Convenor
India Against Corruption
B-59 Defence Colony
New Delhi 110024


​

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Ramarao V. Bodapati <rbodapati@hotmail.com> wrote:
Fwdd by B V Ramarao, PhD, for our
noble PM's Information and needed action
 
From: mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 17:30:29 +0530
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] CASHLESS FOOLS

Dear All,

I just returned after buying some items of stationery. The amount
payable was 653/-. I offered to pay by debit card or credit card - whatever was acceptable to the vendor. Vendor stated that I shall have to pay 2% over and
above the bill. On my query as to why, vendor replied that he is being
charged 2% by the debit / credit card companies. I insisted on paying through
card as I did not have enough cash and that I won't pay extra 2%. I told him
that there was a waiver of such charge for six months. He insisted that SBI
was charging him 2% on payments received through debit cards.

Anyway, seeing me adamant he agreed to charge the actual bill amount.

Here the story begins.

First he took my card and recorded complete detail of my debit card
on the computer and printed the cash memo. I objected to this. He then
offered to delete the details from the printed copies!

I again objected to that saying those details still existed on
the computer file. 

He then told me that he deleted the file (as per his version - though
I am not very sure if he actually deleted the card details from the
computer). 

Now the most interesting part. He inserted the card into the machine
and fed the amount which is not visible to us. I entered the pin. And
there you are - payment successful! 

I got the SMS alert from the Bank. I just wanted to show to him that
I had got the SMS alert - thus proving my bonafides.

And then came the horror. The amount charged was 6530/- instead of 653/-.

It could be a genuine mistake. It could well be, in the hands of
a dishonest vendor, an intentional fraud.

What if the card details still exist in the computer?

What if cyber crooks hack details of my card as also details of cards of
other buyers existing in the computer?

What if Bank SMS alert did not come in time?

What if I had not checked the SMS alert?

What, if after making the payment, I had walked away,
had I been a temporary visitor in the station?

I had always maintained that the Banks, Paytm and other such like Portals
charge transaction fee. The vendor also told that to transfer money from
Paytm account to his Bank account something like 4 to 5% charge is
levied by Paytm. 

In cash transactions such like mistakes rarely happen. One counts the cash,
any discrepancy is settled there and then.

The vendor offered to pay back the difference through. cheque - which
I declined as I am leaving for outstation. He then paid the difference through
cash.

Do you feel the gullible farmer / daily wage earner / unorganised industry labour / small time worker who is rather illiterate or not  well educated will not fall prey to such frauds, if the vendor is dishonest? 

Zara sochiye! 

MG Kapoor
Sent from my iPhone
========================================================
On 06-Jan-2017, at 2:08 PM, Madhav Nalapat <mdnalapat@gmail.com> wrote:

Almost 80 per cent  of black money flows through banking channels. Through methods such as under invoicing and over invoicing. Through multiple accounts now made easier via Aadhar. Cash forms a very small part of the total. What has happened is that those laundering illicit cash have kept 15 to 20 per cent from the holders. Those who regard the November 8 move as having reduced the black economy are in a dream world                

Sent from my iPhone
===========================================================
On Jan 4, 2017, at 21:28, Samir Srivastava <srivant.samir@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
  First let me clarify my understanding of cashless transaction and economy. When one pay by ATM/Debit/Credit Card or Cheque, then that is cashless transaction. When Cash is COMPLETELY out of the ECONOMY of a geographical area then it is (COMPLETE ) CASHLESS ECONOMY.
 
  #1) We can have similar accountability to govt in Soft Earning Unit (SEU) also. My proposal is maintain everything as such just remove the cash completely from the system. 

  #2) SEU must statutorily be exchanged for "value" . If someone finds SEU is of lesser value, then instead of keeping it with earning keeper, one can invest in SEU of other geographical area or precious metals etc.

  #3) RBI can regulate SEU also. IMHO, please go through the paper and slides on my blog http://samirsrivastava.typepad.com/ carefully. The thing which you described as magic cannot happen without HELP from customs/ govt officials. If hard currency is gone, then these magic will not happen. Moreover if you want when the internet traffic goes out of the country to "suspected web-sites" that can be avoided ISP need to implement policies.

  IMHO, The parallel economy (due to un-traceability of hard currency) is biggest hindrance in making effective economic policies. In SEU you can make effective economic policies.

  I am refraining from commenting on other political noises.

Thanks 
Samir Srivastava

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Certain people (fools) are busy promoting cashless transactiions and
removing currency totally from the economy, without understanding the
implications.

#1 CASH / CURRENCY is a measure of the liability the Government has to
the people of India.  In simple terms.CURRENCY is a measure of how
much the Government owes to the citizens.Removing Currency implies
that Government owes people nothing and can do what they want and
print money at will.

MORAL -> FASCIST Govts desperately want currency and autonomous
Central Banks eliminated.

# 2 CURRENCY Notes must statutorily be exchanged for "value" - ie.
valuable coin. Previously this was gold, now its a mix of metals like
copper and stainless steel. The difference between the intrinsic value
(ie. metal price in open market) of the coin and its face value is the
Govt's tax (called "seignorage"). Typically whenever seignorage
exceeds 25-30% the public rejects paper currency in favour of stronger
currencies and there is monetary inflation. At present India's
seignorage is 70%. No wonder the India Rupee has depreciated 100%
against Dollar because smart Indians are "exporting" their value.

MORAL -> A Rafale fighter jet costs 2x what it did during Congress
time because we now have a chaiwala as PM instead of a former RBI
Governor.

# 3 If there is no currency, then there is also no need for RBI (whose
only role is to regulate currency and money supply).  If there are no
Indian currency notes then people will devise ways and means (also
called Internet APPS) to ensure that transactions take place on
foreign websites in foreign currency but goods are "magically"
delivered in India. This is already happening Udtaa Punjab.

MORAL --> Why would anybody pay in Indian rupees on Indian websites if
a foreign supplier will anonymously deliver the goods to you without
bill after you have paid in dollars or Yen or BITCOIN ? The whole
online Pharmacy racket works on this principle.

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in


Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: WHITHER MR. MODI’S ANTI CORRUPTION WAR ?

Every politician over the ages has been stating from roof tops that the corrupt will not be spared. Implementation has always been, as also of now, tardy and selective.

Common man is effected by corruption at the level of Havaldar, Patwari, Kanungo, Trfc policeman, clerks in various govt offices. I do not know how demonetisation is going to stop these functionaries from keeping on demand for money.

Higher level corruption flows down from election expenditure and politicians. Hoe demonetisation will stop it without election reforms is not understandable.

R.N.Malhotra


--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 1/1/17, Venkatraman Ns <nsvenkatchennai@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [IAC#RG] Fwd: WHITHER MR. MODI'S ANTI CORRUPTION WAR ?
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sunday, January 1, 2017, 6:18 PM


To
India Against
Corruption

                         
                  WHITHER  MR. MODI'S 
ANTI  CORRUPTION  WAR ?

The question uppermost in the
mind of the people now is whether Mr. Modi would really
succeed in ensuring a corruption free India. Large number of
people appear to be still sceptical, though they think that
Mr. Modi is very sincere and they wish him
well.
With the government machinery
and the law enforcing agencies themselves  considerably
corrupt, with many politicians both in Mr. Modi's party
and in the opposition parties suspected to be of indulging
in corrupt practices and with the  black money  becoming
an essential need for the political parties to fight
elections, many people seem to think that Mr. Modi may be
waging a losing battle against corruption. However, the redeeming fact
that has come out after the demonetization exercise is
 that the people are willing to stand by Mr. Modi in his
battle. They expect him to give a very strong lead for the
anti corruption movement in India and people would follow if
it would be practically possible.
Mr. Modi's New Year eve
speech on 31st December,2016 certainly has made
people think that here is a Prime Minister who has the
courage to say that dishonest and corrupt officials will not
be spared.
Mr. Modi has certainly
kindled  hope amongst common men  that the anti corruption
movement would go forward and would  succeed sooner or
later.
N.S.VenkataramanNandini Voice For The
Deprivednandinivoice.com 
                                 
                                       
                               
  


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] CASHLESS FOOLS

Dear Col Kapoor,

If such a experienced /expert legally sound Signalsman with knowledge of all crypto procedures of Debit Cards falls victim to Modi's goonda raj, what hope is there for poor women (including 3rd genders) who are having to strip naked (in front of their children( when all their cash has been stolen after believing Modi's Nov. 8 jumla that notes can be exchanged till 31st March 2017 after filling a form by this BIG RBI FRAUD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Dp4FINXAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRaBkHQ3GQY

The shop-keeper is equally trapped by the system devised by these foreign card processors like VISA.

Once again it is a Modi jumla that 2% charges are still being waived on card transactions.

Since it is a "card present" transaction, the shopkeeper is required to retain a xerox copy of the card (bank and front) which includes your CVV number and also insist on an additional ID proof in case the charge is disputed subsequently.

It is very surpriing that your transaction was authenticated only using ATM PIN on his POS terminal. Nowadays they should also send a OTP to your registered mobile which is entered in case your PIN is captured at the merchant location.

Your example clearly shows how insecure and hackable the present system / your bank account is.

I strongly urge you to send a copy of your experience to your Bankers and ask them to upgrade their online security for your account and take all security precautions to guard against simultaneous capture of your card codes, your ATM PIN and theft / cloning of your mobile phone.

Sarbajit


On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 5:30 PM, MG Kapoor <mgkapoor.1962@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,

I just returned after buying some items of stationery. The amount payable was 653/-. I offered to pay by debit card or credit card - whatever was acceptable to the vendor. Vendor stated that I shall have to pay 2% over and above the bill. On my query as to why, vendor replied that he is being charged 2% by the debit / credit card companies. I insisted on paying through card as I did not have enough cash and that I won't pay extra 2%. I told him that there was a waiver of such charge for six months. He insisted that SBI was charging him 2% on payments received through debit cards.

Anyway, seeing me adamant he agreed to charge the actual bill amount.

Here the story begins.

First he took my card and recorded complete detail of my debit card on the computer and printed the cash memo. I objected to this. He then offered to delete the details from the printed copies!

I again objected to that saying those details still existed on the computer file. 

He then told me that he deleted the file (as per his version - though I am not very sure if he actually deleted the card details from the computer). 

Now the most interesting part. He inserted the card into the machine and fed the amount which is not visible to us. I entered the pin. And there you are - payment successful! 

I got the SMS alert from the Bank. I just wanted to show to him that I had got the SMS alert - thus proving my bonafides.

And then came the horror. The amount charged was 6530/- instead of 653/-.

It could be a genuine mistake. It could well be, in the hands of a dishonest vendor, an intentional fraud.

What if the card details still exist in the computer?

What if cyber crooks hack details of my card as also details of cards of other buyers existing in the computer?

What if Bank SMS alert did not come in time?

What if I had not checked the SMS alert?

What, if after making the payment, I had walked away, had I been a temporary visitor in the station?

I had always maintained that the Banks, Paytm and other such like Portals charge transaction fee. The vendor also told that to transfer money from Paytm account to his Bank account something like 4 to 5% charge is levied by Paytm. 

In cash transactions such like mistakes rarely happen. One counts the cash, any discrepancy is settled there and then.

The vendor offered to pay back the difference through. cheque - which I declined as I am leaving for outstation. He then paid the difference through cash.

Do you feel the gullible farmer / daily wage earner / unorganised industry labour / small time worker who is rather illiterate or not  well educated will not fall prey to such frauds, if the vendor is dishonest? 

Zara sochiye! 

MG Kapoor

Sent from my iPhone


Posted by at No comments:

Re: [IAC#RG] CASHLESS FOOLS

Dear All,

I just returned after buying some items of stationery. The amount payable was 653/-. I offered to pay by debit card or credit card - whatever was acceptable to the vendor. Vendor stated that I shall have to pay 2% over and above the bill. On my query as to why, vendor replied that he is being charged 2% by the debit / credit card companies. I insisted on paying through card as I did not have enough cash and that I won't pay extra 2%. I told him that there was a waiver of such charge for six months. He insisted that SBI was charging him 2% on payments received through debit cards.

Anyway, seeing me adamant he agreed to charge the actual bill amount.

Here the story begins.

First he took my card and recorded complete detail of my debit card on the computer and printed the cash memo. I objected to this. He then offered to delete the details from the printed copies!

I again objected to that saying those details still existed on the computer file. 

He then told me that he deleted the file (as per his version - though I am not very sure if he actually deleted the card details from the computer). 

Now the most interesting part. He inserted the card into the machine and fed the amount which is not visible to us. I entered the pin. And there you are - payment successful! 

I got the SMS alert from the Bank. I just wanted to show to him that I had got the SMS alert - thus proving my bonafides.

And then came the horror. The amount charged was 6530/- instead of 653/-.

It could be a genuine mistake. It could well be, in the hands of a dishonest vendor, an intentional fraud.

What if the card details still exist in the computer?

What if cyber crooks hack details of my card as also details of cards of other buyers existing in the computer?

What if Bank SMS alert did not come in time?

What if I had not checked the SMS alert?

What, if after making the payment, I had walked away, had I been a temporary visitor in the station?

I had always maintained that the Banks, Paytm and other such like Portals charge transaction fee. The vendor also told that to transfer money from Paytm account to his Bank account something like 4 to 5% charge is levied by Paytm. 

In cash transactions such like mistakes rarely happen. One counts the cash, any discrepancy is settled there and then.

The vendor offered to pay back the difference through. cheque - which I declined as I am leaving for outstation. He then paid the difference through cash.

Do you feel the gullible farmer / daily wage earner / unorganised industry labour / small time worker who is rather illiterate or not  well educated will not fall prey to such frauds, if the vendor is dishonest? 

Zara sochiye! 

MG Kapoor



Sent from my iPhone

On 06-Jan-2017, at 2:08 PM, Madhav Nalapat <mdnalapat@gmail.com> wrote:

Almost 80 per cent  of black money flows through banking channels. Through methods such as under invoicing and over invoicing. Through multiple accounts now made easier via Aadhar. Cash forms a very small part of the total. What has happened is that those laundering illicit cash have kept 15 to 20 per cent from the holders. Those who regard the November 8 move as having reduced the black economy are in a dream world                

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2017, at 21:28, Samir Srivastava <srivant.samir@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
  First let me clarify my understanding of cashless transaction and economy. When one pay by ATM/Debit/Credit Card or Cheque, then that is cashless transaction. When Cash is COMPLETELY out of the ECONOMY of a geographical area then it is (COMPLETE ) CASHLESS ECONOMY.
 
  #1) We can have similar accountability to govt in Soft Earning Unit (SEU) also. My proposal is maintain everything as such just remove the cash completely from the system. 

  #2) SEU must statutorily be exchanged for "value" . If someone finds SEU is of lesser value, then instead of keeping it with earning keeper, one can invest in SEU of other geographical area or precious metals etc.

  #3) RBI can regulate SEU also. IMHO, please go through the paper and slides on my blog http://samirsrivastava.typepad.com/ carefully. The thing which you described as magic cannot happen without HELP from customs/ govt officials. If hard currency is gone, then these magic will not happen. Moreover if you want when the internet traffic goes out of the country to "suspected web-sites" that can be avoided ISP need to implement policies.

  IMHO, The parallel economy (due to un-traceability of hard currency) is biggest hindrance in making effective economic policies. In SEU you can make effective economic policies.

  I am refraining from commenting on other political noises.

Thanks 
Samir Srivastava

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Certain people (fools) are busy promoting cashless transactiions and
removing currency totally from the economy, without understanding the
implications.

#1 CASH / CURRENCY is a measure of the liability the Government has to
the people of India.  In simple terms.CURRENCY is a measure of how
much the Government owes to the citizens.Removing Currency implies
that Government owes people nothing and can do what they want and
print money at will.

MORAL -> FASCIST Govts desperately want currency and autonomous
Central Banks eliminated.

# 2 CURRENCY Notes must statutorily be exchanged for "value" - ie.
valuable coin. Previously this was gold, now its a mix of metals like
copper and stainless steel. The difference between the intrinsic value
(ie. metal price in open market) of the coin and its face value is the
Govt's tax (called "seignorage"). Typically whenever seignorage
exceeds 25-30% the public rejects paper currency in favour of stronger
currencies and there is monetary inflation. At present India's
seignorage is 70%. No wonder the India Rupee has depreciated 100%
against Dollar because smart Indians are "exporting" their value.

MORAL -> A Rafale fighter jet costs 2x what it did during Congress
time because we now have a chaiwala as PM instead of a former RBI
Governor.

# 3 If there is no currency, then there is also no need for RBI (whose
only role is to regulate currency and money supply).  If there are no
Indian currency notes then people will devise ways and means (also
called Internet APPS) to ensure that transactions take place on
foreign websites in foreign currency but goods are "magically"
delivered in India. This is already happening Udtaa Punjab.

MORAL --> Why would anybody pay in Indian rupees on Indian websites if
a foreign supplier will anonymously deliver the goods to you without
bill after you have paid in dollars or Yen or BITCOIN ? The whole
online Pharmacy racket works on this principle.

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Posted by at No comments:

[IAC#RG] CBSE rolls back Aadhar for IIT-JEE Mains exam on IAC complaint

Dear IAC-ians

It appears (final reply still awaited) that CBSE has rolled back the clause that Aadhar is mandatory for students appearing in IIT-JEE Main exam after IAC protested and enclosed copy of the SC judgment in in WP(C) 686/2016 titled as ALL BENGAL MINORITY STUDENTS COUNCIL versus UNION OF INDIA dt. 14.09.2016

CPIO of CBSE has today replied in RTI they have notified some clarifications concerning alternative methods to Aadhar for students to sit for the JEE Mains exam. The actual order itself is coming by post.

Our online RTI no. is CBSED/R/2016/51816, and CPIO's reply (attached) can also accessed from there.

Sarbajit Roy


Posted by at No comments:
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)