Dear pavan
Supratim has raised "human psychology".
NRIs are investing in Indian FDs because (a) they are getting good
sovereign returns @ 6% in their own currency. RBI and banks don't know
what to do with this flood of money so they are having to invest it in
US T-bonds to hedge against currency risk. Real estate and gold are
down-trending in India, so what is the RBI to do, stop NRI deposits ??
https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^NSEI+Interactive#symbol=^nsei;range=1y;compare=^dji+^nya;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;
Follow this link and all will be clear :-)
Sarbajit
On 8/28/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Shri Supratim Basu,
> I do feel that just as war is too important a subject to be left to
> the generals, the state of the economy must not be left to economists!
> Recall 2008. The question raised is not why we are investing in US Bonds
> but where is the need to hike this investment year after year. The amount
> invested was hiked by 19% in FY 13-14 to 73 billion dollars. Please read
> the article in the Economic Times. My argument is that this has been
> possible due to a surge in NRI deposits over the last few years. A back of
> the envelope calculation shows that the recurring loss per year on account
> of differential interest rates is Rs 4,800 crores on the incremental amount
> invested in FY13-14 (about 10 billion dollars). If we had not accepted an
> additional 10 billion dollars and not invested them in US Bonds, the
> exchequer would have gained by the mentioned amount. That is how I look at
> it as a layman. An economist's view may be different. Incidentally, I wrote
> a letter to the ET on the lines above which was published in the print
> editions the next day. I do hope you will see some merit in my argument. I
> feel there should be a moratorium on NRI deposits and further investment in
> US bonds till a white paper is published by the government as suggested by
> Shri Sant Mathur. I do endorse your view that economics should be included
> at the secondary level. Thank You. Pavan Nair
>
>
Thursday, August 28, 2014
Wednesday, August 27, 2014
Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Shri Supratim Basu,
I do feel that just as war is too important a subject to be left to the generals, the state of the economy must not be left to economists! Recall 2008. The question raised is not why we are investing in US Bonds but where is the need to hike this investment year after year. The amount invested was hiked by 19% in FY 13-14 to 73 billion dollars. Please read the article in the Economic Times. My argument is that this has been possible due to a surge in NRI deposits over the last few years. A back of the envelope calculation shows that the recurring loss per year on account of differential interest rates is Rs 4,800 crores on the incremental amount invested in FY13-14 (about 10 billion dollars). If we had not accepted an additional 10 billion dollars and not invested them in US Bonds, the exchequer would have gained by the mentioned amount. That is how I look at it as a layman. An economist's view may be different. Incidentally, I wrote a letter to the ET on the lines above which was published in the print editions the next day. I do hope you will see some merit in my argument. I feel there should be a moratorium on NRI deposits and further investment in US bonds till a white paper is published by the government as suggested by Shri Sant Mathur. I do endorse your view that economics should be included at the secondary level. Thank You. Pavan Nair
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
SThen, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US treasuries.It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in Indian schools upto class 12.And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they do.
That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
On 26 August 2014 10:43, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
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RE: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
27/8/14
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:43:05 +0530
From: pavannair1@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Dear Mr. Nair,
The concerns raised by you are very legitimate but we have to keep in mind the following realities-
1.Indian currency has never been and will not be a major currency in international finance.
2. We have no strength in exporting manufactured goods as China has.Our strength is only in human resource related
services. We could be strong in
agri. based products specially Spices but we have no surpluses. Today no body can compete with China. We are stuck at about 300 B. exports. China,s trade with India is highly lopsided and selectively in favour of China.
3.Foreign loans and investment-As you know treasury bills of US and European countries except countries like Spain greece and to some extent Italian are available at a very low return. But you cant risk investing in high risk countries.
For countries like Germany ,Switzerland and france their own currencies are so strong.
About foreign loans I forgot mention about the loans raised by Corporate sector.It is increasing at a very high rate after the Indian Companies have been allowed to raise foreign currency loans and invest in acquiring foreign
companies.The Corporate sector has found it convenient to acquire companies rather than make efforts to export goods from India. At some stage it could get mixed up with foreign currency holdings in foreign banks.The RBI has to keep a close watch on corporate loans.
4.NRI deposits-I agree that if the NRI get 3% in European Bank India should pay upto%5 as fair inducement. But after the foreign currency withdrawl from Stock exchanges and real estate, the rupee came under pressure and inspite of RBI limited interventions, the slide could not be arrested .So the RBI had to increase the deposit rate, I personally would not attribute this to a wrong [olicy of the RBI or its Governor. Regds/JKGaur
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:43:05 +0530
From: pavannair1@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear Shri Gaur,
Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan Nair
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
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Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Dear S
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
(c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
etc etc and so on..
At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
(@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
(A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
(B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
(i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
(ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
cash ? ... and
(iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
'desi' economics very very well.
S
On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in
> Indian schools upto class 12.
>
> That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices
> and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical
> sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those
> who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>
> No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>
> And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to
> understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part
> of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
> understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they
> do.
>
> Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
> economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
> treasuries.
>
> S
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that any
half-competent central banker (even if he is a CIA imposed dishonest
rascal) will invest money in US Treasury Bonds because of (a) notional
security (b) continually declining value of INR against USD since 2010
(c) because T-bonds are highly liquid and tradeable (d) Market cycles.
etc etc and so on..
At the same time, all you foreign employed economic experts
(@lackeys), fail to maintain consistency in understanding the *FIXED*
purpose of *THIS* mailing list. I could remind you of 2 statements by
your Freedom Team (Sone ka Chidiya) guru - Sanjeev Sabhlok - to
illustrate how you economists dissimulate.
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/the-dissimulating-smear-monger-sarbajit-roy-please-boycott-all-his-work/
(A) While doggedly refusing to read anything I wrote in an email sent
at 7:02PM, Sanjeev, within 8 minutes concluded that "Arvind (Kejriwal)
is an honest, good man." and that "Sarbajit Roy is unqualified to talk
to Sanjeev because Sarbajit Roy is dishonest". (Let us not get into
why your guruji Sanjeev Sabhlok is sending now me email after email
pleading to solicit my views and opinions).
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/2014/08/is-there-something-fishy-about-ramdev-and-his-empire-3/
(B) Sanjeev Sabhlok of course is the same economist who founded your
virtual political party (I've forgotten its exact name just now) and
publicly blogged as follows in-seriatim
(i) Baba Ramdev is a completely corrupt and cowardly fellow, then
(ii) deleted the posts where he said Ramdev is a cowardly corrupt
fellow, and wrote that SWAMI Ramdev is actually a highly patriotic
HONEST fellow who is extending all facilities .. like suitcases of
cash ? ... and
(iii) again recants by now saying Baba Ramdev is a highly DISHONEST
fellow who is operating a huge black money laundering empire ....
PS: This list has over 2,000 CAs as subscribers who know practical
'desi' economics very very well.
S
On 8/27/14, Supratim Basu <xsupratim@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in
> Indian schools upto class 12.
>
> That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices
> and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical
> sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those
> who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
>
> No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
>
> And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to
> understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part
> of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no
> understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they
> do.
>
> Then, naturally, the end result is *this particular discussion* - any
> economics 101 student should be able to tell you why India buys US
> treasuries.
>
> S
Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
Would the State come up with a white paper on the issue?
PIL route needs to be used for this purose.
CAG reports?
Any other investigative reports?
How about primetime debate by Arnab/Rahul/Karan etc?
spm
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:43 AM, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
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Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds
It is a pity that economics, even if it is economics 101, is not taught in Indian schools upto class 12.
That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
And, I find most engineering graduates to be the worst when it comes to understanding markets and economics, when they pass out - because as part of their curriculum, they do not learn any behaviourial sciences, no understanding of incentives theory and why human beings do the things they do.That is why Indians have such a woeful understanding of markets and prices and even, money - upto class 12, we are taught history, geography, physical sciences, some maths, biological sciences - but no economics - even those who take up "commerce" post 10th hardly learn any economics.
No wonder we are a nation of economic illiterates.
On 26 August 2014 10:43, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Shri Gaur,Thank you for your inputs. Entirely agree that the internal debt is a huge burden and most of the borrowing which is about 5 lakh crores goes to pay the interest on the debt. The point I was trying to make was why should a poor and indebted country like India invest 3.5% of its GDP at near zero interest rates when we are borrowing at much higher rates. Indian investment in these bonds exceeds that of several developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. The prudent course would be to reduce borrowing at high rates as also the investment in low yield bonds. Several countries including China have sovereign funds which can be used to finance projects abroad or make investments in markets or commodities. As far as NRIs are concerned, they earn around 2% in deposits abroad so an incentive of say another 2% would have been more than enough to attract investment. This was the norm till a few years ago. Why the sudden generosity to hike rates to be repatriated in foreign exchange and tax free to boot. If an NRI has made his first million dollars, he can put up his feet and retire on an income of 90,000 dollars a year thanks to 'Save India' bonds or whatever they are called. The way to go would be to hike exports like China and reduce imports specially of defence equipment. But that is another story. Pavan NairOn Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
24/8/14Dear Sirs,Foreign reserves- consist of gold holdings and foreign currency Assets including SDRs. Gold reserves about 260 m.tons. If RBI has invested 70/80 millions in US treasury it is reasonable since our currency is primarily linked to USD> and as you said there cant be MORE SECURE PLace for parking part of your reserves in US treasury bills. If you consider the investment by Chine haVING TEN TIME OF OUR RESERVES OF MORE THAN 3 TRILLIONS. Chinese were trying to invest in some industries there but the US refused on the ground of strategic industries. Also consider the reserves of Middle Eastern Rulers like Saudi,Kuwait and quatar and others.In short US inspite of being the most indebted country contiues to enjoy unprecedented prosperity on other peoples money and also retains the right to freeze them as it was done in case of Iran.2.Foreign loans- consists of loans by multilateral agencies, Govt. to Govt., long term and short term and raised by private sector. Mostof loa ns of multilatral and bilateral are on concessional rates and long repayment tenure. Since Annual obligation to pay is only about 20/25 billion,the country can afford to pay without any defficulty. In fact the Govt. did prepay some small loans to european countries who were being difficult. We have come a long way from the specctre of default we faced in late seventies.3. Exchange rate- depreciation has been occuring since 1967 when Indira Gandhi went to US for Assistance for food grain which was given with two conditions-Depreciate the rupee by 23/24% and keep the mouth shut on action in Vietnam. The recent depreciation from 2010 onwards has been in spurts-the latest being in Nov.2013 when the rupee felt to almost 68 to a Dollar. Among the various reasons there could also be US overst pressure to open the retail marketing sector and nuclear reactor business. Now the RE hS STABLISHED AT ABOUT 59/60 WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE FAIR FOR THE EXPORTS AND ALSO in hibiting imports.4. NRI deposits- are strictly not in the nature of loan and their rates have been changing from time to time. We get highest foreign remittances which helps in narrowing the gap between export/import earnings. But honestly, when we are getting 9% on our domestic deposits, why should we grudge the same to NRIs. Why this bias?In my opinion more worrisome is the domestic indebtedness of the Govt. which is increasing every year and eats away 40% of Govt. revenue as interest charges. The so called stimuls package of 2008-09 and high deficit financingDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 16:46:46 +0530
From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Indian investment in US BondsDear Pavan
4 words spring to mind.
(A) PONZI
(B) Ever-Greening
(C) Leverage
(D) Corruption
Probably RBI is doing in USA what banks like SBI, Syndicate Banks and
all are doing in India. Its the old scheme of bank skimming, deposit
20% with me at (cheap rates) and I'll keep giving you loans upon loans
upon loans (so long as I keep getting my kickbacks) - Kingfisher,
Bhushan Steels, Pramod Mittal,
Experts like Ms Sucheta Dalal etc may have further details
Sarbajit
On 8/21/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sarbajit. The money could be used to retire government debt on which
> much higher rates are being paid. Does it make sense if you owe 80 billion
> dollars (the approximate amount of the government debt besides NRI deposits
> of 100 billion dollars) and are paying about 6% interest, to deposit 73
> billion dollars in US treasuries which yield less that 2% interest. The NRI
> deposit scheme needs to be revised and rates lowered as well as interest
> taxed. If I as a resident Indian am being paid the same interest and taxed,
> I do not see why NRIs should not be taxed. In fact they should volunteer to
> pay tax since voting rights are also being given. Pavan Nair
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pavan
>>
>> I have no inputs on this. Since 2010 the IN Rupee has depreciated by
>> 35% against major currencies. INR has been the worst performing major
>> currency. RBI has probably prudently moved our FOREX reserves into the
>> safest place it can find :-)
>>
>> NRI's being NRIs, GoI can probably refuse to pay them when the shit
>> hits the fan.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On 8/19/14, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Sarbajit,
>> >
>> > I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding
>> > the
>> > subject. Here is the link.
>> >
>> >
>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/india-among-top-16-lenders-to-us-as-bond-investments-hit-73-billion-in-june/articleshow/40382761.cms
>> >
>> > I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at
>> rates
>> > OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US
>> > government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%.
>> The
>> > lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The
>> > external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and
>> > has
>> > risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment
>> which
>> > stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion
>> > dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of
>> > taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to
>> > payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the
>> > US
>> > government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor
>> and
>> > indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed
>> > countries
>> > like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt
>> > servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be
>> > reduced.
>> > May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their
>> > views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the
>> > authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair
>> >
>>
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>>
>
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Tuesday, August 26, 2014
[IAC#RG] Fwd: [.IN Technical Support - Case #00080226]URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: DKG PATEL <pat...@....com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:43:16 +0530
To: drgovind <drgovind@nic.in>, ".IN Tech Support"
<techsupport@registry.in>, legal@nixi.in
Cc: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To:
Dr. Govind, CEO NIXI (Operator of IN Tech Registry)
Dear Sir,
We cannot keep waiting while you people at NIXI keep twiddling your
thumbs just to to assist NATGRID in their illegal spying activity on
Indian citizens..
You know very well that yours is a corrupt and technically incompetent
organisation which took 7 days to shut down 5 .IN domain names which
India Against Corruption reported were openly publishing grossly
offensive nude pictures claiming to be those of actress Sonakkshi
Sinha, daughter of a sitting BJP (ruling party) MP.
You know very well that there are a huge number of .IN websites which
are similarly publishing the grossly offensive nude images of
Ms.Aishwarya Rai Bacchan (daughter of sitting OPPOSITION Member of
Parliament ie Ms. Jaya Bacchan) while your NIXI and .IN registry have
done f**k all to stop it ? Is it official policy of BJP Govt to
victimise this female by misusing .IN domains for political reasons ?
You also know very well there are a huge number of .IN websites which
are similarly openly publishing grossly offensive nude pictures,
showing all private parts, purportedly of Sonia Gandhi. What have you
done about it ? Is it yet another official policy of BJP Govt to
victimise this female by misusing .IN domains for political reasons ?
You also know very well that the domain name CDACPUNE.IN was a vital
component to identify the professional foreign pornographers like
Wikipedia behind this desecration of Indian minds. The domain name
CDACPUNE.IN within the space of only 5 days could identify 37,000
infected pages on CDAC.IN which were coded by WIKIMEDIA Inc. and being
used by NATGRID in collaboration with Russian mafia for phishing and
to plant malware to illegally spy on India citizens, and which CDAC.IN
had to take offline on our complaint. What the f**k was NIXI and
AFILIAS doing for 10 years that they couldn't detect this like we
could in 5 days, and which caused NATGRID to shut down this domain
name CDACPUNE.IN so that they were not exposed further?
Accordingly we demand that NIXI do all of the following immediately or
in not less than 48 hours.
A) Restore domain name CDACPUNE.IN to full working order so that we
may resume our investigations into NATGRID's illegal spying operations
on Indian citizens.
B) Suspend WIKPEDIA.IN and WIKIMEDIA.IN domain names
C) Suspend all .IN domain names publishing nude images purportedly of
Ms Aishwarya Rai Bacchan.
D) Suspend all .IN domain names publishing nude images purportedly of
Ms Sonia Gandhi.
With best wishes
Registrant
CDACPUNE.IN
for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
On 8/21/14, .IN Tech Support <techsupport@registry.in> wrote:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> Thank you for contacting .IN Technical Support.
>
> We have received your request and presently it is being worked on. We will
> get back to you as soon as more information becomes available to us.
>
> We appreciate your patience in advance.
>
> Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us
> and include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref in the body of all
> future correspondence with regards to this ticket. To do so, you may simply
> reply to this message.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rohini Massey
> .IN Technical Support
> URL: http://www.registry.in
> E-mail: techsupport@registry.in
> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888 (India)
> Phone: +1-416-619-3030 (North America)
> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844 (India)
> Fax: +1-416-646-3305 (North America)
>
> --------------- Original Message ---------------
> From: DKG PATEL [patel.dkg@gmail.com]
> Sent: 8/21/2014 1:22 PM
> To: support@registry.in
> Subject: Re: [.IN Technical Support - Case #00080226]URGENT COMPLAINT :
> domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>
> Dear Sir or Madam
>
> As it is now confirmed by Registrar BIGROCK.COM that the persons who
> made the motivated, false and vexatious complaints against our domain
> name (CDACPUNE.IN) ie. (a) NATGRID and (b) CDAC.IN themselves stand
> exposed as criminal abusers of .IN domain names who are massively
> implanting malware on Indian citizens to spy on them and hack into
> their privacy, we are once again requesting you to release our
> registered domain name CDACPUNE.IN and put it back into working order
> immediately.
>
> URL :
> http://rti4citizens.blogspot.in/2014/08/re-iacrg-twh-601-99561-report-of.html
>
> REGISTRANT
> CDACPUNE.IN
>
> On 8/16/14, .IN Support wrote:
>> Dear Sir or Madam,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting .IN Registry Relations.
>>
>> Please be advised that your request has been forwarded to Registry
>> Operator
>> for review. We will provide you with an update as soon as more
>> information
>> becomes available to us.
>>
>> We appreciate your patience and cooperation.
>>
>> Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact
>> us
>> and include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref in the body of all
>> future correspondence with regards to this ticket. To do so, you may
>> simply
>> reply to this message.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jordi Montes
>> .IN Registry Relations
>> URL: http://www.registry.in
>> E-mail: support@registry.in
>> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888
>> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844
>>
>> --------------- Original Message ---------------
>> From: DKG PATEL [patel.dkg@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 8/15/2014
>> To: help@crazydomains.in;
>> drgovind@nic.in;
>> customercare@crazydomains.com;
>> legal@nixi.in;
>> customercare@austdomains.com.au;
>> registry@nixi.in;
>> sroy1947@gmail.com;
>> registrantsupport@registry.in;
>> help@austdomains.com.au
>> Subject: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>>
>> REMINDER No. 2
>> To :
>> Sponsoring Registrar: AUST DOMAINS PTY Ltd.
>> Reseller: Crazy Domains
>>
>> Dear Sirs,
>>
>> We have not received any return communication whatsoever from your
>> organisation or your reseller M/s Crazy Domains concerning the
>> censorship and illegal blocking of our website by disabling the domain
>> name. Such unprofessional behavior by Approved Registrars of NIXI
>> cannot be tolerated.
>>
>> We are hereby specifically calling upon you, being the sponsoring
>> Registrar, to inform us why the .IN DOMAIN name "CDACPUNE.IN" is place
>> on HOLD status and is not being published to the zone. Kindly also
>> provide us a copy of the supporting basis, if any.
>>
>> REGISTRANT
>> CDACPUNE.IN
>>
>> for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
>> in
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: DKG PATEL
>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 18:31:39 +0530
>> Subject: Fwd: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>> To: customercare@austdomains.com.au
>>
>> To : Sponsoring Registrar: AUST DOMAINS PTY Ltd.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: DKG PATEL
>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 15:17:50 +0530
>> Subject: Re: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>> To: customercare@crazydomains.com, help
>> Cc: ".IN Support" , legal@nixi.in
>>
>> TO: Customercare @ Crazy Domains
>>
>> Kindly note that we have ascertained that the NXDOMAIN records of
>> INREGISTRY (which is operated by NIXI since 2005)I has apparently been
>> erased on basis of a baseless complaint filed by CDAC.IN under
>> instigation of NATGRID (Ministry of Home Affairs) allegedly for ABUSE
>> inter-alia for "phishing" and "pharming".
>>
>> In this connection kindly refer definitions contained in IN DOMAIN
>> ANTI-ABUSE POLICY (https://registry.in/Policies/IN_Anti_Abuse_Policy)
>>
>> "Phishing:" The use of counterfeit Web pages that are designed to
>> trick recipients into divulging sensitive personal data such as
>> personally identifying information, usernames, passwords, or financial
>> data.
>>
>> "Pharming:": The redirecting of unknowing users to fraudulent sites or
>> services, typically through, but not limited to, DNS hijacking or
>> poisoning.
>>
>> Neither of these activities has taken place for usage of domain name
>> CDACPUNE.IN and CDAC's complaint is a vexatious and motivated one to
>> "REVERSE DOMAIN NAME HIJACK" this domain name and to harass and censor
>> the present Registrant and prevent dissemination of some authentic
>> information relating to NATGRID accessed and collated from Parliament
>> website or under RTI Act or from DoPT website etc. which NATGRID finds
>> unpalatable for general knowledge of Indian citizens.
>>
>> We assert that to our best knowledge no abusive usage whatsoever of
>> the domain name has taken place, and this unilateral decision by
>> Afilias's INREGISTRY to block the website content is arbitrary, bereft
>> of natural justice and also technically unsound, and requires a formal
>> speaking order from Central Govt. such as u/s 69 of IT Act to effect.
>>
>> It is noteworthy that after the publication of the .IN DOMAIN NAME
>> POLICY FRAMEWORK AND INFRASTRUCTURE by DIT in Oct 2004, the CDAC.IN
>> would be unlikely to succeed in a UDRP format dispute for this domain
>> name.
>>
>> The usage of the domain name CDACPUNE.IN is a bonafide non-commercial
>> fair use and no attempt is made to redirect innocent internet users to
>> fraudulent sites or to counterfeit webpages or to defraud them. The
>> website also does not claim to be CDAC India or NATGRID or to be
>> endorsed by them. Furthermore no hosting or publishing is carried out
>> from this domain name and neither are any deceptive techniques like
>> DNS poisoning, use of fast flux, I-frames, spamming, spreading of
>> child pornography etc done by us.
>>
>> Hence, kindly restore the domain name to ACTIVE STATUS immediately and
>> advise CDAC.IN to follow due procedures if they are aggrieved by
>> present ownership and usage of the domain name.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 8/7/14, DKG PATEL wrote:
>>> TO: Customercare @ Crazy Domains
>>>
>>> Please find below our urgent COMPLAINT which is still unattended by
>>> Crazy Domains.
>>>
>>> This involves alteration of domain records at root level of NIXI by
>>> somebody on 06-Aug-2014 14:15:44 UTC
>>>
>>> Have also complained to .IN Registry (vide .IN Support - Case
>>> #00080226), and they have replied that the 'sponsoring registrar' (ie.
>>> you) will attend to this problem.
>>>
>>> Hence, please restore the domain records immediately and revert
>>> website to ACTIVE STATUS.
>>>
>>> Kindly also note that no communication for ABUSE or contravention of
>>> Terms of Registration for .IN domain names has been received from
>>> anybody, and we are therefore extremely concerned at this unexplained
>>> security breach at Registrar level which has resulted in downtime of
>>> the domain name.
>>>
>>> for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
>>> in
>>> "
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: DKG PATEL
>>> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 22:21:18 +0530
>>> Subject: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>>> To: help@crazydomains.in
>>>
>>> To:
>>> Help @ CRAZY DOMAINS
>>>
>>> Our website "CDACPUNE.IN" has stopped working from 06-Aug-2014
>>> 14:15:44 UTC. when somebody (not us) has tampered with the WHOIS
>>> Records and put the domain into HOLD STATUS.
>>>
>>> Our website technical persons immediately contacted IN Registry 24x7
>>> technical support on phone about this problem to learn that the domain
>>> is blocked at root level of "b2-in.afilias-net.org" as "no record
>>> error" and our complaint should be made to Registrar ie. to you as you
>>> (or some hackers) have blocked it and deleted our records at root
>>> level.
>>>
>>> It is very surprising that you blocked the domain without contacting
>>> us. Kindly note that this is a premium valuable domain name which we
>>> had registered fortuitously and that some hackers and miscreants are
>>> trying their very best to disable and "reverse domain name hijack" our
>>> website/domain name to cause us great loss for which you may be
>>> liable.
>>>
>>> Kindly restore the domain name immediately to ACTIVE status and also
>>> activate all security measures to prohibit transfer or deletion of
>>> this domain name out of our hands without all due legal and registrar
>>> compliance processes.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>>
From: DKG PATEL <pat...@....com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:43:16 +0530
To: drgovind <drgovind@nic.in>, ".IN Tech Support"
<techsupport@registry.in>, legal@nixi.in
Cc: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To:
Dr. Govind, CEO NIXI (Operator of IN Tech Registry)
Dear Sir,
We cannot keep waiting while you people at NIXI keep twiddling your
thumbs just to to assist NATGRID in their illegal spying activity on
Indian citizens..
You know very well that yours is a corrupt and technically incompetent
organisation which took 7 days to shut down 5 .IN domain names which
India Against Corruption reported were openly publishing grossly
offensive nude pictures claiming to be those of actress Sonakkshi
Sinha, daughter of a sitting BJP (ruling party) MP.
You know very well that there are a huge number of .IN websites which
are similarly publishing the grossly offensive nude images of
Ms.Aishwarya Rai Bacchan (daughter of sitting OPPOSITION Member of
Parliament ie Ms. Jaya Bacchan) while your NIXI and .IN registry have
done f**k all to stop it ? Is it official policy of BJP Govt to
victimise this female by misusing .IN domains for political reasons ?
You also know very well there are a huge number of .IN websites which
are similarly openly publishing grossly offensive nude pictures,
showing all private parts, purportedly of Sonia Gandhi. What have you
done about it ? Is it yet another official policy of BJP Govt to
victimise this female by misusing .IN domains for political reasons ?
You also know very well that the domain name CDACPUNE.IN was a vital
component to identify the professional foreign pornographers like
Wikipedia behind this desecration of Indian minds. The domain name
CDACPUNE.IN within the space of only 5 days could identify 37,000
infected pages on CDAC.IN which were coded by WIKIMEDIA Inc. and being
used by NATGRID in collaboration with Russian mafia for phishing and
to plant malware to illegally spy on India citizens, and which CDAC.IN
had to take offline on our complaint. What the f**k was NIXI and
AFILIAS doing for 10 years that they couldn't detect this like we
could in 5 days, and which caused NATGRID to shut down this domain
name CDACPUNE.IN so that they were not exposed further?
Accordingly we demand that NIXI do all of the following immediately or
in not less than 48 hours.
A) Restore domain name CDACPUNE.IN to full working order so that we
may resume our investigations into NATGRID's illegal spying operations
on Indian citizens.
B) Suspend WIKPEDIA.IN and WIKIMEDIA.IN domain names
C) Suspend all .IN domain names publishing nude images purportedly of
Ms Aishwarya Rai Bacchan.
D) Suspend all .IN domain names publishing nude images purportedly of
Ms Sonia Gandhi.
With best wishes
Registrant
CDACPUNE.IN
for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
On 8/21/14, .IN Tech Support <techsupport@registry.in> wrote:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> Thank you for contacting .IN Technical Support.
>
> We have received your request and presently it is being worked on. We will
> get back to you as soon as more information becomes available to us.
>
> We appreciate your patience in advance.
>
> Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us
> and include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref in the body of all
> future correspondence with regards to this ticket. To do so, you may simply
> reply to this message.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rohini Massey
> .IN Technical Support
> URL: http://www.registry.in
> E-mail: techsupport@registry.in
> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888 (India)
> Phone: +1-416-619-3030 (North America)
> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844 (India)
> Fax: +1-416-646-3305 (North America)
>
> --------------- Original Message ---------------
> From: DKG PATEL [patel.dkg@gmail.com]
> Sent: 8/21/2014 1:22 PM
> To: support@registry.in
> Subject: Re: [.IN Technical Support - Case #00080226]URGENT COMPLAINT :
> domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>
> Dear Sir or Madam
>
> As it is now confirmed by Registrar BIGROCK.COM that the persons who
> made the motivated, false and vexatious complaints against our domain
> name (CDACPUNE.IN) ie. (a) NATGRID and (b) CDAC.IN themselves stand
> exposed as criminal abusers of .IN domain names who are massively
> implanting malware on Indian citizens to spy on them and hack into
> their privacy, we are once again requesting you to release our
> registered domain name CDACPUNE.IN and put it back into working order
> immediately.
>
> URL :
> http://rti4citizens.blogspot.in/2014/08/re-iacrg-twh-601-99561-report-of.html
>
> REGISTRANT
> CDACPUNE.IN
>
> On 8/16/14, .IN Support wrote:
>> Dear Sir or Madam,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting .IN Registry Relations.
>>
>> Please be advised that your request has been forwarded to Registry
>> Operator
>> for review. We will provide you with an update as soon as more
>> information
>> becomes available to us.
>>
>> We appreciate your patience and cooperation.
>>
>> Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact
>> us
>> and include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref in the body of all
>> future correspondence with regards to this ticket. To do so, you may
>> simply
>> reply to this message.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jordi Montes
>> .IN Registry Relations
>> URL: http://www.registry.in
>> E-mail: support@registry.in
>> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888
>> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844
>>
>> --------------- Original Message ---------------
>> From: DKG PATEL [patel.dkg@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 8/15/2014
>> To: help@crazydomains.in;
>> drgovind@nic.in;
>> customercare@crazydomains.com;
>> legal@nixi.in;
>> customercare@austdomains.com.au;
>> registry@nixi.in;
>> sroy1947@gmail.com;
>> registrantsupport@registry.in;
>> help@austdomains.com.au
>> Subject: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>>
>> REMINDER No. 2
>> To :
>> Sponsoring Registrar: AUST DOMAINS PTY Ltd.
>> Reseller: Crazy Domains
>>
>> Dear Sirs,
>>
>> We have not received any return communication whatsoever from your
>> organisation or your reseller M/s Crazy Domains concerning the
>> censorship and illegal blocking of our website by disabling the domain
>> name. Such unprofessional behavior by Approved Registrars of NIXI
>> cannot be tolerated.
>>
>> We are hereby specifically calling upon you, being the sponsoring
>> Registrar, to inform us why the .IN DOMAIN name "CDACPUNE.IN" is place
>> on HOLD status and is not being published to the zone. Kindly also
>> provide us a copy of the supporting basis, if any.
>>
>> REGISTRANT
>> CDACPUNE.IN
>>
>> for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
>> in
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: DKG PATEL
>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 18:31:39 +0530
>> Subject: Fwd: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>> To: customercare@austdomains.com.au
>>
>> To : Sponsoring Registrar: AUST DOMAINS PTY Ltd.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: DKG PATEL
>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 15:17:50 +0530
>> Subject: Re: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>> To: customercare@crazydomains.com, help
>> Cc: ".IN Support" , legal@nixi.in
>>
>> TO: Customercare @ Crazy Domains
>>
>> Kindly note that we have ascertained that the NXDOMAIN records of
>> INREGISTRY (which is operated by NIXI since 2005)I has apparently been
>> erased on basis of a baseless complaint filed by CDAC.IN under
>> instigation of NATGRID (Ministry of Home Affairs) allegedly for ABUSE
>> inter-alia for "phishing" and "pharming".
>>
>> In this connection kindly refer definitions contained in IN DOMAIN
>> ANTI-ABUSE POLICY (https://registry.in/Policies/IN_Anti_Abuse_Policy)
>>
>> "Phishing:" The use of counterfeit Web pages that are designed to
>> trick recipients into divulging sensitive personal data such as
>> personally identifying information, usernames, passwords, or financial
>> data.
>>
>> "Pharming:": The redirecting of unknowing users to fraudulent sites or
>> services, typically through, but not limited to, DNS hijacking or
>> poisoning.
>>
>> Neither of these activities has taken place for usage of domain name
>> CDACPUNE.IN and CDAC's complaint is a vexatious and motivated one to
>> "REVERSE DOMAIN NAME HIJACK" this domain name and to harass and censor
>> the present Registrant and prevent dissemination of some authentic
>> information relating to NATGRID accessed and collated from Parliament
>> website or under RTI Act or from DoPT website etc. which NATGRID finds
>> unpalatable for general knowledge of Indian citizens.
>>
>> We assert that to our best knowledge no abusive usage whatsoever of
>> the domain name has taken place, and this unilateral decision by
>> Afilias's INREGISTRY to block the website content is arbitrary, bereft
>> of natural justice and also technically unsound, and requires a formal
>> speaking order from Central Govt. such as u/s 69 of IT Act to effect.
>>
>> It is noteworthy that after the publication of the .IN DOMAIN NAME
>> POLICY FRAMEWORK AND INFRASTRUCTURE by DIT in Oct 2004, the CDAC.IN
>> would be unlikely to succeed in a UDRP format dispute for this domain
>> name.
>>
>> The usage of the domain name CDACPUNE.IN is a bonafide non-commercial
>> fair use and no attempt is made to redirect innocent internet users to
>> fraudulent sites or to counterfeit webpages or to defraud them. The
>> website also does not claim to be CDAC India or NATGRID or to be
>> endorsed by them. Furthermore no hosting or publishing is carried out
>> from this domain name and neither are any deceptive techniques like
>> DNS poisoning, use of fast flux, I-frames, spamming, spreading of
>> child pornography etc done by us.
>>
>> Hence, kindly restore the domain name to ACTIVE STATUS immediately and
>> advise CDAC.IN to follow due procedures if they are aggrieved by
>> present ownership and usage of the domain name.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 8/7/14, DKG PATEL wrote:
>>> TO: Customercare @ Crazy Domains
>>>
>>> Please find below our urgent COMPLAINT which is still unattended by
>>> Crazy Domains.
>>>
>>> This involves alteration of domain records at root level of NIXI by
>>> somebody on 06-Aug-2014 14:15:44 UTC
>>>
>>> Have also complained to .IN Registry (vide .IN Support - Case
>>> #00080226), and they have replied that the 'sponsoring registrar' (ie.
>>> you) will attend to this problem.
>>>
>>> Hence, please restore the domain records immediately and revert
>>> website to ACTIVE STATUS.
>>>
>>> Kindly also note that no communication for ABUSE or contravention of
>>> Terms of Registration for .IN domain names has been received from
>>> anybody, and we are therefore extremely concerned at this unexplained
>>> security breach at Registrar level which has resulted in downtime of
>>> the domain name.
>>>
>>> for .INRegistry use " include the string: ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0gWbPt:ref
>>> in
>>> "
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: DKG PATEL
>>> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 22:21:18 +0530
>>> Subject: URGENT COMPLAINT : domain "CDACPUNE.IN"
>>> To: help@crazydomains.in
>>>
>>> To:
>>> Help @ CRAZY DOMAINS
>>>
>>> Our website "CDACPUNE.IN" has stopped working from 06-Aug-2014
>>> 14:15:44 UTC. when somebody (not us) has tampered with the WHOIS
>>> Records and put the domain into HOLD STATUS.
>>>
>>> Our website technical persons immediately contacted IN Registry 24x7
>>> technical support on phone about this problem to learn that the domain
>>> is blocked at root level of "b2-in.afilias-net.org" as "no record
>>> error" and our complaint should be made to Registrar ie. to you as you
>>> (or some hackers) have blocked it and deleted our records at root
>>> level.
>>>
>>> It is very surprising that you blocked the domain without contacting
>>> us. Kindly note that this is a premium valuable domain name which we
>>> had registered fortuitously and that some hackers and miscreants are
>>> trying their very best to disable and "reverse domain name hijack" our
>>> website/domain name to cause us great loss for which you may be
>>> liable.
>>>
>>> Kindly restore the domain name immediately to ACTIVE status and also
>>> activate all security measures to prohibit transfer or deletion of
>>> this domain name out of our hands without all due legal and registrar
>>> compliance processes.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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