[HumJanenge] Alpine Housing Bangalore

Hi Friends,

There is a builder at Bangalore known as Alpine Housing Development Corporation Limited- website: www.alpinehousing.com
I booked a flat with him in one of his under-construction property titled "Alpine Viva" in January 2007, and signed the agreements on 13- Mar-2007.
He promised the completion by July 2008 but midway he told me that the land on which the project was coming up was notified for acquisition by the govt and it took him 6 months time
to get the land de-notified by the govt and hence the delay so no penalty would be paid to any customer. He has taken 90% of the money from me, and my loan a/c by Jan-2009.

When I filed the RTI letter to Bangalore Development Authority, I got to know that the land was notified for acquisition on 15/11/2006 whereas he signed the agreements with me 4 months after the notification. When I confronted with the said fact, he offered me a flat in another project. This flat is a ready to move in flat and little bigger in size also.

The agreements were signed for the new flat in Mar-2011. After the agreement I asked him to complete the property tax, and betterment charges to Bangalore civic authorities. After this he stopped responding to me over e-mails, and letters and his officers started telling lies. I have been fighting with them for past 1 yr. On 31st of last month Alpine called me for a meeting at Bangalore, however, despite my repeated attempts he did not sent me an e-mail invitation. I came from Delhi to Bangalore and he promised me a resolution in a week's time. It has been 20 days to it and I am still at Bangalore, and Alpine Housing is still evasive, Their officers don't reply, The MD himself doesn't pick my calls, I have made over 100 calls to him but he don't any of my calls.

I was completely dismayed by his act, and decided to go to his office and sit there even if nobody talks to me. From 12:30 afternoon on Saturday and peacefully sat there until 7'o clock. I apprised the lady at the reception that I have come to meet one of their officers who met me on 31st- may, and who promised me the resolution in a week's time. Neither the officer came nor the M.D. came.

When it was 6' o clock the lady at the reception asked me to go and come on Monday, I said, I will wait until someone come and that you may lock me inside. I will not hinder in your functions. Slowly everybody left by 6:30 PM.

When I did not see anybody there, I too left at 7' o clock. I don't know what to do further?

Any suggestions ?

Thanks
Abhinav Agarwal

--

Thanks

Abhinav

 

"

Have a heart that never hardens, a temper that never tires, and a touch that never hurts...

"

Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Friends All on this Forum:

I am possibly sharing my opinion for the first time on this forum,
yet have been orienting myself on the pushes and pulls under way
between the different, but concerned and passionate individuals. For
their sharing and more, I am grateful. But now say my bit...

Sudhakaran ji has inspired and motivated me to say my brief piece.

Corruption is only a part of the erosion of character we exhibit as a
people and a nation. Something more basic is lacking and is NOT
restricted only to the politician -- though they by and large, are
possibly, some of the worst in "making a buck" under any
circumstances.

Our character has eroded to a point where generally, we assume by
saying "Sorry Sir and please..." we have done our bit and resume
activities and life and repeat the same kind of act, the next day or
week and end with "Sorry" and carry on. That is how bad it has become.
I suspect 8 or 9 out of 10 are that way today among us Indians.
The younger ones, learn from the older ones, and thus the erosion that
I refer to is seen as "being clever and smart and get by" smoothly and
glibly....

A premier seems to demonstrate as if he is running a gurdwara not a
Govt of over a Billion people!
He must learn from Sridharan ji of the Delhi Metro of what decision
making and leadership is and how it is demonstrated. You cann ot be a
Premier and not supervise how the Foreign Minister managing things and
events...and the same applies to the rest of his Ministry or the
PMO...!

Matters and events have gone beyond the politicians; most of us tend
to indulge in 'a sleight of hand' to what have you. That is called
clever and smart.
The gentle and the honest one is called a "buddhu" and a "soft one"
and will not go far in life -- in a job, or with a woman or moving up
in one's career.

Good character and honesty of purpose gets appreciated -- I do not
deny that and it does get rewarded. BUT our corrupted character and
"being clever" has left us as a highly "chalak" and a corrupt nation,
among whom possibly the politicians are the worst element since they
run the roost and get away -- by buying the votes, suppressing the
havaldar or Inspector, getting the Supervisor or a headmaster or a
Director by getting other pressures under way and thus the higher
echelons are made to bend.

See how in another context, professionals and those who matter tend to
"kow tow" when a Rahul Gandhi passes by -- which is NOT his fault --
yet he does not mind 'making a buck' of a different kind so that
possibly he eventually gets to warm the seat of the Premier, one day,
even though he is not guilty of ever wanting to own it now or in the
next general elections.
That is how our democracy gets defined by the best and the worst among
us-- as a nation-- that is how we are "corrupted". Which Lokpal will
arise to repair these major flaws in our national character?

Corruption should not merely be seen in relation to the ducats but
beyond in how loyal and sincere we are in what a Gandhi or a Vinobha
stood for.

One Baba lies in hospital room leaving the world after 4 months of
fasting because the Ganga is NOT getting cleaned while the other Baba
in the next room after 9 days is welcomed and put on every TV channel
seen breaking the fast and then declaring that he needs to pay his
taxes having made a buck that runs in hundreds of crores over the past
few years!!

You know what I am comparing and suggesting how we as a community and
a nation have eroded -- what our ideals were and what our Constitution
and what our Dharam stands for.

Our corruption today is of a kind we are running, at all our different
levels a nautanki of sorts (as Digvijai says in another, biased way)
unconcerned with the kind of standards we are laying down for those
who follow us in the family or in a neighbourhood or the Panchayat or
the local body and beyond in public work in the Legislatures and the
Houses of Parliament.
And the President cannot decide who must get hung or go inside for
life -- everything remains in an unending queue of sorts... to what
end? Who will get to do his/her job within a month, a year or 2-3
years or never...and not be accountable.
IT IS THAT BAD.

Thank you for listening.
Peace and regards
dev chopra -- soon will be 77
living in gurgaon -- where MNCs and high rises get made
but sewage and sanitation gets to be some one else's concern
not the HUDA or the MCG nor the DTCP... to what have you.
***
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> First of all Prosecuting Sonia is not going to solve the corruption problem
> for ever?
>
> please note theat Anna Hazare had fasted in 1997 and ousted two corruption
> accused ministers in Maharastra Government. But did corruption reduced abit
> in Maharastra/ ... or has it grown further to Aadharsh flatrs heights?
> And I had asked Anna in JUly 1997:
> 'Are the new replacements for the ousted ministers clean personalities?
>  Anna replied: No; They are also corrupt.
> Me: Are other Ministers in Maharastra and other states and centre
> incorruptible clean persons?
> Anna: No. all politicians are corrupt.
> Me: So what benefit your hungerstrike and the ouster of those ministers
> brought to the nation, the society or the cmmon man in terms of corruption?
> .... I repeat this same question here?
> What difference prosecution of Sonia would bring to the nation on the
> corruption front/
>
> Such proposals are partisan and reactive.
> Try to be objective, and non partisan>
> If not we would reach nowhere in our reform efforts.
>
> Sudhakaran
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Devasahayam MG
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.
> See Link
> http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2011/06/seeking-pms-permission-to-prosecute-ms.html
>
> MGD
> ______________________________________________________________________________________-----
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr. Sarbjit and Mr. Anand..
>>
>> I do not know if you have noticed that I have been insisting on this
>> factor: that corruption is just a symptom of the basic flaw of our political
>> system.... the flaw that cause the abject 'Character crisis' in our
>> political leadership with the prevalence of the corrupt caucuses/dynasties
>> and their lackeys in political leadership.
>> And that fighting corruption directly, sans its flaw, is akin to fighting
>> the shadow mistaking it as the real target.
>>
>> RTI (proposed Lok Pal and the old CVC also) surely would have been a very
>> strong tool in a vibrant society with a fairly virtuous and competent
>> political leadership.
>> But with the present type of the political leadership (the wrong type of
>> Raja) the Praja and all other institutions would emulate them and the
>> corruption would continue to grow irrespective of new laws or institutions
>> created against it.
>>
>> Great India trust (www.greatindiatrust),
>> and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia/ are dedicated to debate and
>> propagate this ideal.
>>
>> Cannot you consider to participating and contributing in that group?
>>
>> Sudhakaran
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sarbajit Roy
>> To: humjanenge
>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:25 PM
>> Subject: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.
>> Dear Shri Anand
>>
>> I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain
>> specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past /
>> present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement
>> of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular
>> membership.
>>
>> Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The
>> middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily
>> IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially
>> and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the
>> politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens
>> who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid
>> losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower
>> classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.
>>
>> In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is a
>> a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black.
>> The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in
>> all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the
>> media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the
>> problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it
>> is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you
>> dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which
>> MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR
>> will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR
>> call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????
>>
>> Respectfully
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,
>> >Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know
>> > who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one
>> > of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.
>> >
>> >My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With
>> > my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption'
>> > needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists
>> > at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in
>> > our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which
>> > people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue.
>> > Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through
>> > under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property,
>> > when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when
>> > we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state
>> > our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae
>> > cases.
>> >
>> >Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the
>> > personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to
>> > ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to
>> > speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and
>> > have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a
>> > self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.
>> >
>> >YP Anand
>>  >
>>
>
>

Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

First of all Prosecuting Sonia is not going to solve the corruption problem  for ever?

 

please note theat Anna Hazare had fasted in 1997 and ousted two corruption accused ministers in Maharastra Government. But did corruption reduced abit in Maharastra/ ... or has it grown further to Aadharsh flatrs heights?

And I had asked Anna in JUly 1997:
'Are the new replacements for the ousted ministers clean personalities?
 Anna replied: No; They are also corrupt.

Me: Are other Ministers in Maharastra and other states and centre incorruptible clean persons?

Anna: No. all politicians are corrupt.

Me: So what benefit your hungerstrike and the ouster of those ministers brought to the nation, the society or the cmmon man in terms of corruption?

.... I repeat this same question here?

What difference prosecution of Sonia would bring to the nation on the corruption front/

 

Such proposals are partisan and reactive.

Try to be objective, and non partisan>

If not we would reach nowhere in our reform efforts.

 

Sudhakaran

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Devasahayam MG

To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:39 PM

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

See Link
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2011/06/seeking-pms-permission-to-prosecute-ms.html

MGD
______________________________________________________________________________________-----

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr. Sarbjit and Mr. Anand..

 

I do not know if you have noticed that I have been insisting on this factor: that corruption is just a symptom of the basic flaw of our political system.... the flaw that cause the abject 'Character crisis' in our political leadership with the prevalence of the corrupt caucuses/dynasties and their lackeys in political leadership. 

And that fighting corruption directly, sans its flaw, is akin to fighting the shadow mistaking it as the real target.

 

RTI (proposed Lok Pal and the old CVC also) surely would have been a very strong tool in a vibrant society with a fairly virtuous and competent political leadership.

But with the present type of the political leadership (the wrong type of Raja) the Praja and all other institutions would emulate them and the corruption would continue to grow irrespective of new laws or institutions created against it.

 

Great India trust (www.greatindiatrust), and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia/ are dedicated to debate and propagate this ideal.

 

Cannot you consider to participating and contributing in that group?

 

Sudhakaran   

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarbajit Roy

To: humjanenge

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:25 PM

Subject: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Shri Anand

I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past / present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular membership.

Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.

In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black. The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????

Respectfully

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,

>Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.

>

>My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption' needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue. Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property, when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae cases.  

>

>Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.

>

>YP Anand

 >

Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

See Link
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2011/06/seeking-pms-permission-to-prosecute-ms.html

MGD
______________________________________________________________________________________-----

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr. Sarbjit and Mr. Anand..

 

I do not know if you have noticed that I have been insisting on this factor: that corruption is just a symptom of the basic flaw of our political system.... the flaw that cause the abject 'Character crisis' in our political leadership with the prevalence of the corrupt caucuses/dynasties and their lackeys in political leadership. 

And that fighting corruption directly, sans its flaw, is akin to fighting the shadow mistaking it as the real target.

 

RTI (proposed Lok Pal and the old CVC also) surely would have been a very strong tool in a vibrant society with a fairly virtuous and competent political leadership.

But with the present type of the political leadership (the wrong type of Raja) the Praja and all other institutions would emulate them and the corruption would continue to grow irrespective of new laws or institutions created against it.

 

Great India trust (www.greatindiatrust), and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia/ are dedicated to debate and propagate this ideal.

 

Cannot you consider to participating and contributing in that group?

 

Sudhakaran   

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarbajit Roy

To: humjanenge

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:25 PM

Subject: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Shri Anand

I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past / present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular membership.

Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.

In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black. The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????

Respectfully

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,

>Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.

>

>My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption' needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue. Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property, when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae cases.  

>

>Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.

>

>YP Anand

 >

[HumJanenge] Why Lokpal will not work in India

About 200 years ago, one of the greatest sons India has produced set foot in Britain to give evidence before the Queen's Select Committee on Judicial and Economic reforms. It was the first time any Indian had done so. It would be worth reproducing some of the questions he was asked and his answers - most of which are so relevant today  It would also be pertinent to note that this great son of India was described by a pipsqueak like Mohandas K Gandhi as "an intellectual pygmy"

2. Q. Do you think that the system hitherto acted upon is calculated to secure justice ? 
A. The judicial system established in 1793, by Lord Cornwallis, was certainly well adapted to the situation 
 of the country, and to the character of the people as well as of the government, had there been a sufficient number 
of qualified judges to discharge the judicial office, under a proper code of laws. 

3. Q. Explain particularly in what points you consider the practical operation of the system defective ? 
 A. In the want of a sufficient number of judges and magistrates, in the want of adequate qualification in many 
of them to discharge the duty in foreign languages, and in the want of proper code of laws, by which they might 
 be easily guided. 

4. Q. Can you explain ivhat evils result from the want of a greater number oj judges ? 
A. ist, The courts being necessarily few in number in comparison to the vast territories under the British 
 rule, many of the inhabitants are situated at so great a distance from them, that the poorer classes are in 
general unable to go and seek redress for any injury, particularly those who may be oppressed by their weal 
 thier neighbours, possessing great local influence. 2ndly, The business of the courts is so heavy that causes often 
accumulate to such an extent, that many are necessarily pending some years before they can be decided ; an 
 evil which is aggravated by subsequent appeals from one court to another, attended with further delay and 
increased expense. By this state of things wrong-doers are encouraged, and the innocent and oppressed in the 
 same proportion discouraged, and often reduced to despair. 3rdly, Such a mass of business transacted in 
foreign languages being too much for any one individual, even the ablest and best intentioned judge, may be dis- 
 disheartened at seeing before him a file of causes which he can hardly hope to overtake ; and he may therefore 
be thus induced to transfer a great part of the business to his native officers, who are not responsible, and who 
 are so meanly paid for their services, that they may be expected to consult their own interests. 

5. Q. Will you inform us what evils arise from the want of due qualification in the judges ? 
A. It is but justice to state that many of the judicial officers of the company are men of the highest talents, 
 as well as of strict integrity, and earnestly intent on doing justice. However, not being familiar with the laws of 
the people over whom they are called to administer justice by these laws, and the written proceedings of the 
 court, answers, replies, rejoinders, evidence taken, and .documents produced, being all conducted in a language 
which is foreign to them, they must either rely greatly on the interpretation of their native officers, or be guided 
 by their own surmises or conjectures. In one case, the cause will be decided by those who in point of rank and 
pay are so meanly situated, and who are not responsible to the government or public for the accuracy of the 
 decision , in the other case, a decision founded on conjecture must be very liable to error. Still, I am happy 
to observe that there are some judicial officers, though very few in number, whose judgment and knowledge of 
 the native languages are such, that in cases which do not involve much intricacy and legal subtlety, they are able 
to form a correct decision independent of the natives around them. 

:
:

20. Q. What is your opinion of the general character and conduct of the judges in their official capacity as 
 such ? 
A. I am happy to state that in my humble opinion the judicial branch of the service is at present almost pure ; 
and there are among the judicial servant of the Company gentlemen of such distinguished talents, that from their 
 natural abilites, even without the regular study of the law, they commit very few, if any, errors in the administra 
tion of justice. Others are not so well gifted, and must therefore rely more on the representations of their native 
 officers, and being free from any local check on their public conduct, their regularity, attention to business, and 
other judicial habits, are not equal to the wishes of their employers, nor calculated to give general satisfaction. 
 
21. Q. Do they borrow money to any extent from the natives ? 
A. Formerly they borrowed to a great amount ; at present this practice is discouraged. 

22. Q. Why are the natives prevailed upon to lend to the judges, and other civilians, money to such an extent ? 
 A. Natives not having any hope of attaining direct consideration from the Government by their merits or 
exertions, are sometimes induced to accommodate the civil servants with money, by the hope of securing their 
 patronage for their friends and relatives, the judges and others having many situations directly or indirectly in. 
their gift ; sometimes by the hope of benefiting by their friendly disposition when the natives have estates under 
 their jurisdiction ; and sometimes to avoid incurring the hostility of the judge, who, by Regulation IX. of 1807, 
is empowered not only to imprison, but inflict corporal punishment, by his own authority under certain legal 
 pretences on any native, whatever his respectability may be. 

2 3- Q- What is your opinion of the judical character and conduct of the Hindu and Mohammedan lawyers 
attached to the courts ? 
A. Amongst the Mohammedan lawyers I have met with some honest men. The Hindu lawyers are in 
 general not well spoken of, and they do not enjoy much of the confidence of the public. 

24. Q. What is your opinion of the official character and conduct of the subordinate native judical officers P 
A. Considering the trifling salaries which they enjoy, from 10, 20, 30, or 40 rupees to 100 Rupees a month, (the 
 last being the allowance of the head native officer only,) and the expenses they must incur, in supporting some 
respectability of appearance, besides maintaining their families ; (the keeping of a palankeen alone must cost the 
 head man a sum of between 20 and 30 rupees per month,) -and considering also the extent of the power which they 
must possess, from their situations and duties as above explained (Q. 15.). and the immense sums involved in 
 the issue of causes pending in the courts, it is not to be expected that the native officers, having such trifling 
salaries, at least many of them, should not avail themselves sometimes of their official influence, to promote 
 their own interests. 

26. Q. Is bribery and corruption ever practised in the judicial department, and to what extent .-" 
A. I have already intimated my opinion in the answers to Questions 20 and 24. 
 
27 and 28. Q. Have the respectable and intelligent native inhabitants generally confidence in the purity of the 
Company s courts and the accuracy of their decisions; and have the native community confidence in the integrity 
 of the subordinate judicial officers ? 
A. Whilst such evils exist as I have above noticed, in my reply to (Queries 5, 6, and 7,. as-well as to Queries. 
20 and 24, the respectable and intelligent native inhabitants cannot be expected to have confidence in the 
 general operation of the judicial system. 

[rti4empowerment] Fw: From WEDS - a rational view- Anna Hazare - Civil Society - Ramdev

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "manoharhosea@gmail.com" <manoharhosea@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2011, 22:39
Subject: From WEDS - a rational view- Anna Hazare - Civil Society - Ramdev

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: DSouza Wilberious Evanglist <wilevades@yahoo.co.uk>
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Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2011, 8:49
Subject: From WEDS - a rational view- Anna Hazare - Civil Society - Ramdev

Dear All,

 

While Lok Pal Bill & need for a institution with a head, directly elected by the people of India, surveiling functioning of a Government (State as per Art 12 of The Constitution of India) cannot be undermined, it stands to reason to argue that India being secular democratic republic wherein,  democracy indicates participation by all, parliament being lawfully constituted body reflecting & executing will of the people, is only empowered to pass  Lokpal bill.

 

Such being the case, despite intention being good, what locus standi, Anna Hazare, Ramdev, Civil Society, its members, Peoples committee for drafting Lokpal bill, has, to pose as representatives of people?

 

These are not elected by a public mandate by the people of India. So, people in every constituency in India returning a member to the parliament should sign an identical memorandum to President, Prime minister & Chairperson of House of People & Council of States urging enactment of LokPal Bill that will bring under surveilance of LokPal having power to reprimand, impose pecuniary & punitive penalty, President, PM. Council of Ministers, Governors of all States, Chief Justices of Supreme Court & High Courts, Members of Parliament, State Legislatures, State Lokayuktas .

 

Lok Pal,  its functions, should be transparent & LokPal should be accountable to people of India. Earlier than enacted, draft of LokPal Bill should be made public to review by people. No functionary of the State as per Art 12 of The Constitution of India, who is undoubtedly a public servant & is accountable to people of India, can be excluded from surveilance by Lok Pal & is subject to penalty by Lok Pal for corruption, misdemeanor, maladministration, violation of fundamental & human rights of people.

 

I feel The Council of States at the Parliament & Legislative council in the staes is redundant , a drain on public money & should be dispensed with with suitable ammendment to the Constitution of India.

 

Regrds,

WEDS

Re: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Mr. Sarbjit and Mr. Anand..

 

I do not know if you have noticed that I have been insisting on this factor: that corruption is just a symptom of the basic flaw of our political system.... the flaw that cause the abject 'Character crisis' in our political leadership with the prevalence of the corrupt caucuses/dynasties and their lackeys in political leadership. 

And that fighting corruption directly, sans its flaw, is akin to fighting the shadow mistaking it as the real target.

 

RTI (proposed Lok Pal and the old CVC also) surely would have been a very strong tool in a vibrant society with a fairly virtuous and competent political leadership.

But with the present type of the political leadership (the wrong type of Raja) the Praja and all other institutions would emulate them and the corruption would continue to grow irrespective of new laws or institutions created against it.

 

Great India trust (www.greatindiatrust), and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia/ are dedicated to debate and propagate this ideal.

 

Cannot you consider to participating and contributing in that group?

 

Sudhakaran   

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarbajit Roy

To: humjanenge

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:25 PM

Subject: [HumJanenge] CORRUPTION - Understanding and Removing It.

Dear Shri Anand

I think you shall find that this small mailing list has many domain specialists in "corruption" with a large number of public servants (past / present) and forces personnel subscribing. We also have the usual complement of  "activists" who tend to be more vocal / shrill than our regular membership.

Corruption is certainly a complex issue to understand / deal with. The middle class examples for black money generation you listed are primarily IMHO due to the skewed and unrealistic taxation policies of the (financially and morally bankrupt) Governments of the day which favour the politician-mafia-middleman nexus to the detriment of middle class citizens who are compelled to participate.in corruption against their will to avoid losing out to sky-rocketing inflation and unjustified taxes. The lower classes in turn have their own myriad sets of victimisation examples.

In deliberately simplistic terms, my personal view is that corruption is a a rapidly spreading CANCER which causes even healthy cells to turn black. The homeopathic precriptions for this CANCER being touted by "quacks" (in all senses of this word) are sweet placebos - being heavily promoted in the media and by foolish people who should know better -  can never cure the problem which affects Mother India.  It needs RADICAL SURGERY and before it is too late.  If your house is somehow infested with cockroaches, will you dial a number (.. "you are in the queque"...)  to be given a medicine which MAY kill 1 cockroach after 2 YEARS (see wording of Jan Lok Pal Bill), OR will you yourself pick up a can of HIT and start spraying judiciously OR call in an efficient PEST CONTROL SERVICE ????

Respectfully

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Y.P. Anand <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Dear Shri Sarbjit Roy,

>Thanks for your comments on my note to Shri Devasahayam. I do not know who should be called a 'Gandhian'. That is also not the issue here. Each one of us has many component identities, and putting labels hardly helps.

>

>My note to Shri Devasahayam applies to everyone, including myself. With my long background experience, I do feel that the issue of 'Corruption' needs to studied much more thoroughly than it is being done by the activists at present. Corruption in its various forms is a wide-spread phenomenon in our society, particularly among the successful upper middle classes to which people like me belong. We need to be much more self-critical on this issue. Taking simple examples, black money is being generated all round through under-valued declarations of the amounts when we purchase/sell a property, when we make major additions/alterations to our houses/flats illegally, when we buy jewellery, vehicles, etc. without full receipts, when we under-state our incomes while filing incom-tax returns, and in numerous other similae cases.  

>

>Corruption in all its forms must be opposed. Also, governments and the personnel involved must be held responsible wherever obvious failures to ensure integrity in public life come to notice. However, we get a right to speak on the subject only to the extent we have looked inwards also, and have assured ourselves of the facts in each case. Otherwise, it becomes a self-righteous outcry, which in the long run hardly ever helps the cause.

>

>YP Anand

 >