Friday, January 28, 2011

RE: [rti4empowerment] CONFINING TO ONE SUBJECT AND LIMITING WORDS IN RTI NOT DESIRABLE

You can have a no of RTI  for a no of subjects. It will lead to the useful output of the question asked by you. Whereas in a multipl subjects, PIO may not answer the real question asked by you thus, you will bedrowned in the sea .
Dr N C Jain
28-1-10
 

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:00:43 +0530
From: mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in
Subject: [rti4empowerment] CONFINING TO ONE SUBJECT AND LIMITING WORDS IN RTI NOT DESIRABLE
To: rti4empowerment@googlegroups.com

CONFINING TO ONE SUBJECT AND LIMITING WORDS IN RTI NOT DESIRABLE

M. K. Gupta

 

          The Department of Pension and Training (DoPT) is putting hard labour to limit RTI application to 250 words and allowing queries only on one subject at a time.  This is against the Act passed by the Parliament, which is the Supreme law making body.  If these proposals are implemented, these should be challenged in the Court of Law.

         

Moreover, many persons are capable to ask for more information on one subject even in 250 words than the information they may ask in unlimited words.  Moreover, the PIO or the Public authority will decide and define that the RTI is not on more than one subject and this will be open to widespread misuse.  A citizen does not have the means that something pertaining to an office is on the one subject or not.  This provisions are be misused by opening many files on one subject by sub-dividing the subject or by assigning a subject to many officers and innovative ways can be invented by the Departments to do so.  In the Delhi Municipal Corporation in some areas, the cleanliness of roads is the responsibility of one Department of MCD but the cleaning the sewer is of another Department and the removal of Malwa (construction waste) comes under the purview of third Department.  Even the cleanliness of areas in front shops immediately after the shops in Dwarka, Delhi comes under the Delhi Development Authority. Though, the subject is one i.e. "Cleanliness" but an RTI application on sanitation may and will be rejected on this score.  This is only an example and such instances can be found in thousands.  On the contrary, this will burden the Public Authority more as the applicants will be compelled to file over one application if they have more than one query.

 

The RTI has brought some qualitative changes and transprancy in the working of the government's departments to an extent but such proposals will negate this.  As far as argument of long RTI application is concerned, there is already a provision in the RTI Act that the information solicited should not disprosposnately divert the resources of the Public Authority. Recently, the Delhi High Court has also put a fine of Rs.75,000/- on Mr. Nijhawan of Paardarsita for unreasonable queries and after that, no such case has come to the fore.

 

Govt. should once more reconsider before rejecting the recommendations of the National Advisory Council on this.


Re: [rti4empowerment] Re: RTI activist shot in UP

Dear Dubeyji,

It is very good that you have posted. If knowledgeable persons like you do
not post then who will post and challenge what others write?

You are 110% correct that we are nobody to sit in judgment. Those who
do sit in judgment often come across cases like these and place the details
in public domain for lesser mortals like us to read.

http://rti.india.gov.in/cic_decisions/Decision_11092007_15.pdf
http://rti.india.gov.in/cic_decisions/Decision_16082007_03.pdf
(This case is about an Income Tax officer (requester) against whom
residents have complained he is a blackmailer)
http://rti.india.gov.in/cic_decisions/CIC_LS_A_2010_000282_M_40397.pdf

NB: These decisions are only for" blackmailers" located using the CIC's
section 4(1)(a) compliance. You may use the same facility for
"extortionists", "vexatious", "frivolous" etc.

For "eco-system", I suggest that wikipedia is a good place to begin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystem

warmly

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Anil Dubey <akdubey8@gmail.com> wrote:
I rarely write to these groups.but something is happening that is bothering me.can anyone clarify these things
 
who can be (extortioned) by use of RTI ?
who can be  (blackmailed?) by use of RTI?
what is this ( vexatious?) manner ? 
what is a (frivolous?) application? 
what is RTI eco system( a new term for me)?

At last who are we to pass judgements?
 
On 28 January 2011 12:33, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends

Where is the question of my "real" face. I have ALWAYS maintained as follows:

1) That I am a citizen entitled to use RTI

2) That I am not an "activist"

3) That many "activists" are extortionists / blackmailer / professionals who use
RTI in a vexatious manner which is harmful to long term interest of citizens who use RTI.

4) That the sooner such activists are eliminated from the RTI eco-system (by being
shot or otherwise) the better for all genuine stakeholders especially citizens..

To remove any doubts
I confirm that I made the statement attributed to me, and I stand by it.

Sarbajit


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 




--
Regards

Anil Dubey Anchor Cum Correspondent DD News, New Delhi +919891440214

Thursday, January 27, 2011

Re: [rti4empowerment] Re: RTI activist shot in UP

I rarely write to these groups.but something is happening that is bothering me.can anyone clarify these things
 
who can be (extortioned) by use of RTI ?
who can be  (blackmailed?) by use of RTI?
what is this ( vexatious?) manner ? 
what is a (frivolous?) application? 
what is RTI eco system( a new term for me)?

At last who are we to pass judgements?
 
On 28 January 2011 12:33, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends

Where is the question of my "real" face. I have ALWAYS maintained as follows:

1) That I am a citizen entitled to use RTI

2) That I am not an "activist"

3) That many "activists" are extortionists / blackmailer / professionals who use
RTI in a vexatious manner which is harmful to long term interest of citizens who use RTI.

4) That the sooner such activists are eliminated from the RTI eco-system (by being
shot or otherwise) the better for all genuine stakeholders especially citizens..

To remove any doubts
I confirm that I made the statement attributed to me, and I stand by it.

Sarbajit


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 




--
Regards

Anil Dubey Anchor Cum Correspondent DD News, New Delhi +919891440214

[HumJanenge] Re: RTI activist shot in UP

Dear Friends

Where is the question of my "real" face. I have ALWAYS maintained as follows:

1) That I am a citizen entitled to use RTI

2) That I am not an "activist"

3) That many "activists" are extortionists / blackmailer / professionals who use
RTI in a vexatious manner which is harmful to long term interest of citizens who use RTI.

4) That the sooner such activists are eliminated from the RTI eco-system (by being
shot or otherwise) the better for all genuine stakeholders especially citizens..

To remove any doubts
I confirm that I made the statement attributed to me, and I stand by it.

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 

[rti4empowerment] Re: RTI activist shot in UP

Dear Friends

Where is the question of my "real" face. I have ALWAYS maintained as follows:

1) That I am a citizen entitled to use RTI

2) That I am not an "activist"

3) That many "activists" are extortionists / blackmailer / professionals who use
RTI in a vexatious manner which is harmful to long term interest of citizens who use RTI.

4) That the sooner such activists are eliminated from the RTI eco-system (by being
shot or otherwise) the better for all genuine stakeholders especially citizens..

To remove any doubts
I confirm that I made the statement attributed to me, and I stand by it.

Sarbajit

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 

[HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP

For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 

--- On Fri, 28/1/11, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 11:57 AM

THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI !!! -



--- On Fri, 28/1/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 8:11 AM

Dear Mr Modi

Its good to see that somebody is still reading mails from this group.

The declared purpose of this group is RTI and discussions on CIC/SIC/HC decisions. Unfortunately we have not been having any kind of civilised discussion for a variety of reasons. Instead we are merely circulating news and views, such as about these so-called RTI activists.

Who or what is an "RTI activist". Is the term defined in the RTI Act ? Is an RTI activist entitled to some sort of special status ? How do you distinguish a blackmailer who uses RTI from an activist ? Is it not true that these so-called RTI activists are endangering the lives of ordinary citizens who use RTI ? When all these incidents show that the Govt is
powerless to stop the violence and killings of blackmailers, then why should these mafias distinguish between killing a citizen who files 1 RTI about his neighours illegal construction from a professional extortionist who files hundreds of such RTIs for blackmail ? Is it not
easier for mafias to kill innocent citizens who used RTI occasionally (soft targets) as a warning not to files RTIs against their illegal buildings.

The problem is that there are professional RTI gangs who are hand in glove with mafias. They encourage ordinary citizens to file RTIs at the drop of a hat for trivial problems. They organise camps to promote bizarre concepts like "Use RTI avoid bribes". As a result the instituionalised grievance system of the PA lose its value and wither away. Ask yourself
is it not true that all these so-called hero RTI activists are all ex-babus with serious corruption / viligilance / spying charges pending against them.

I made a statement sometime back for which I apologised. I now see that I was wrong to apologise because my gut feeling was correct. So I shall repeat that statement again.

THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI !!!

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Chanchal <chanchal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends,

This is my first mail to this group, though i keep reading most of the mails. Sometimes i felt to quit, but  left the idea, not because it ever sensitized me about any of the issue discussed here, but atleast it keeps making me aware, that though many of us claim to work for RTI, just a few of us (literally can be counted) really do so. Maximum of us want to comment to make ourself in the centre of the Debate.

Now, a man who filed an RTI application was shot dead, the issue of RTI remains NREGA, a flagship scheme over our govt get boast of.

Now, what proof we require to be submitted by the Victim's side to get case highlighted by RTI Supporters like us. Are we here to help for RTI activists? 

Mr Sharabjit, your few ideas really motivates me but i feel sorry that most of them reflect your immaturity. Well I don't know at what position you work at and what capacity you have to suuport RTI; but atleast I can say this that you are the not one who can really fight for common man right. You guys believe in just making comments over one another................ It seems that RTI has become such a Issue, where people are just making a race to come at fore front seeing others in their competition; to be called that they are the ones who work for RTI.
 
Now, yourself says that he filed an RTI against  BDO for NREGA Issues. Is not enough for us just get sensitized even we know what RTI is; leave to be called as RTI activist, shame on us ............... if we can't do anything ourselves, atleast we can motivate others to do.

with warm regards 

Chanchal
 



[rti4empowerment] [HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP

For knowing the real face of Shri Sarabjit Roy, please read this statement made by him -  "THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI". 

--- On Fri, 28/1/11, M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: M.K. Gupta <mkgupta100@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 11:57 AM

THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI !!! -



--- On Fri, 28/1/11, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI activist shot in UP
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, 28 January, 2011, 8:11 AM

Dear Mr Modi

Its good to see that somebody is still reading mails from this group.

The declared purpose of this group is RTI and discussions on CIC/SIC/HC decisions. Unfortunately we have not been having any kind of civilised discussion for a variety of reasons. Instead we are merely circulating news and views, such as about these so-called RTI activists.

Who or what is an "RTI activist". Is the term defined in the RTI Act ? Is an RTI activist entitled to some sort of special status ? How do you distinguish a blackmailer who uses RTI from an activist ? Is it not true that these so-called RTI activists are endangering the lives of ordinary citizens who use RTI ? When all these incidents show that the Govt is
powerless to stop the violence and killings of blackmailers, then why should these mafias distinguish between killing a citizen who files 1 RTI about his neighours illegal construction from a professional extortionist who files hundreds of such RTIs for blackmail ? Is it not
easier for mafias to kill innocent citizens who used RTI occasionally (soft targets) as a warning not to files RTIs against their illegal buildings.

The problem is that there are professional RTI gangs who are hand in glove with mafias. They encourage ordinary citizens to file RTIs at the drop of a hat for trivial problems. They organise camps to promote bizarre concepts like "Use RTI avoid bribes". As a result the instituionalised grievance system of the PA lose its value and wither away. Ask yourself
is it not true that all these so-called hero RTI activists are all ex-babus with serious corruption / viligilance / spying charges pending against them.

I made a statement sometime back for which I apologised. I now see that I was wrong to apologise because my gut feeling was correct. So I shall repeat that statement again.

THE MORE RTI ACTIVISTS ARE SHOT THE BETTER FOR RTI !!!

Sarbajit

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Chanchal <chanchal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends,

This is my first mail to this group, though i keep reading most of the mails. Sometimes i felt to quit, but  left the idea, not because it ever sensitized me about any of the issue discussed here, but atleast it keeps making me aware, that though many of us claim to work for RTI, just a few of us (literally can be counted) really do so. Maximum of us want to comment to make ourself in the centre of the Debate.

Now, a man who filed an RTI application was shot dead, the issue of RTI remains NREGA, a flagship scheme over our govt get boast of.

Now, what proof we require to be submitted by the Victim's side to get case highlighted by RTI Supporters like us. Are we here to help for RTI activists? 

Mr Sharabjit, your few ideas really motivates me but i feel sorry that most of them reflect your immaturity. Well I don't know at what position you work at and what capacity you have to suuport RTI; but atleast I can say this that you are the not one who can really fight for common man right. You guys believe in just making comments over one another................ It seems that RTI has become such a Issue, where people are just making a race to come at fore front seeing others in their competition; to be called that they are the ones who work for RTI.
 
Now, yourself says that he filed an RTI against  BDO for NREGA Issues. Is not enough for us just get sensitized even we know what RTI is; leave to be called as RTI activist, shame on us ............... if we can't do anything ourselves, atleast we can motivate others to do.

with warm regards 

Chanchal