Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

i am 100% agree with Mathew...

With Regards

BATA BHURJI :) 

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 1:41 PM, <bittoobhandari@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Sinply Brilliant, Mathew ! "Spot on ". Agree 100%

Pramod Bhandari
Gurgaon

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Mathew Thomas <mathew.111938@gmail.com>

Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:15:25 +0530

To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

Hi,

My answers to all four questions - A to D, are NO, NO, NO, NO! 

My reasons: Honesty is not to be assessed based on whether or not an individual has benefited personally or financially. 

If one is silent on any misdemeanour, it is indicative of acquiescence. This is as much tantamount to dishonesty as is personal involvement in malfeasance. 

Dishonesty need not be confined to financial impropriety. For example, Vajpayee, who like, Manmohan, appears to be personally honest, as far as his own financial matters are concerned, was silent on two occasions when a PM was expected to act. One was during the Godhra riots and the other was when Graham Steins was murdered. His foster son's activities are also in the news. 

Vajpayee did nothing when his election agent was caught violating electoral laws. He did nothing when the news of the Jain money-laundering racket broke out. 

Manmohan presides over the most scam-ridden government in history. How could one classify him, as honest? 

The problem is not only with our politicians. This class all over the world are similar. Human greed is not a peculiarly Indian phenomenon. The difference is that the justice system elsewhere is better developed and public consciousness better equipped to handle political dishonesty. 

The problem is not even one of personal dishonesty of politicians. It is a matter of cultural perceptions. Vajpayee did not see anything wrong with Advani's lie on the Kandahar hijacking. There is very high tolerance regarding moral issues in India. A CM who is bigamist continues in office and no one dares to even mention it! 

Regards,

Mathew     

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends, Fellow members of Humjanenge

Many "patriotic" and secular (Uniform Civil Code etc.) members of this group have voiced a concern that an anti-secular agenda emanating from a coterie running the country (which they call BHARAT) is as important an issue to discuss and engage upon, as say only corruption.

In particular a message from Sh Sant Mathur is interesting

"Its well known that secretively a scandalous communal agenda of
Islamisation/Christianisation of BHARAT is getting followed under the
dictat(mostly indirect) of the top most political functionaries of the
governing Alliance of the nation. Its a shame that its not getting exposed
as corruption is !
spm "

In this context I would request the Learned members of this group to freely express / vote on the following simple query by posting to this group. Please trim all emails and only answer YES or NO.

QUESTION

I believe that the following politicians are honest, secular and have acted in national interest in their public actions
at least 70% of the time.

A) Prime Minister Dr. ManMohan Singh  (YES / NO)
B) Chairperson UPA (Ms Sonia Gandhi) (YES / NO)
C) Former Prime Minister Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee (YES NO)
D) Former Home Minister Sh Lal Krishna Advani (YES / NO)

Ashish
Stand up and speak out

Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

My answer to all the four questions is "Yes".

 

Here is why I say so:

 

Given that everyone is human being, it is expected that typical human weakness would manifest sometime or other. So, I would judge people on aggregate basis. And on aggregate basis, I find that all these four persons have by and large kept the national interest over personal one. The Common Wealth games corruption did shake my confidance a bit about Ms Sonia Gandhi, but still my aggregate opinion has not changed about her. (in other words, I still feel that it happened under her nose but without her knowledge).

 

Regards,
Devendra Tripathi

---

From: Mathew Thomas <mathew.111938@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 9:45:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

Hi,

My answers to all four questions - A to D, are NO, NO, NO, NO! 

My reasons: Honesty is not to be assessed based on whether or not an individual has benefited personally or financially. 

If one is silent on any misdemeanour, it is indicative of acquiescence. This is as much tantamount to dishonesty as is personal involvement in malfeasance. 

Dishonesty need not be confined to financial impropriety. For example, Vajpayee, who like, Manmohan, appears to be personally honest, as far as his own financial matters are concerned, was silent on two occasions when a PM was expected to act. One was during the Godhra riots and the other was when Graham Steins was murdered. His foster son's activities are also in the news. 

Vajpayee did nothing when his election agent was caught violating electoral laws. He did nothing when the news of the Jain money-laundering racket broke out. 

Manmohan presides over the most scam-ridden government in history. How could one classify him, as honest? 

The problem is not only with our politicians. This class all over the world are similar. Human greed is not a peculiarly Indian phenomenon. The difference is that the justice system elsewhere is better developed and public consciousness better equipped to handle political dishonesty. 

The problem is not even one of personal dishonesty of politicians. It is a matter of cultural perceptions. Vajpayee did not see anything wrong with Advani's lie on the Kandahar hijacking. There is very high tolerance regarding moral issues in India. A CM who is bigamist continues in office and no one dares to even mention it! 

Regards,

Mathew     

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends, Fellow members of Humjanenge

Many "patriotic" and secular (Uniform Civil Code etc.) members of this group have voiced a concern that an anti-secular agenda emanating from a coterie running the country (which they call BHARAT) is as important an issue to discuss and engage upon, as say only corruption.

In particular a message from Sh Sant Mathur is interesting

"Its well known that secretively a scandalous communal agenda of
Islamisation/Christianisation of BHARAT is getting followed under the
dictat(mostly indirect) of the top most political functionaries of the
governing Alliance of the nation. Its a shame that its not getting exposed
as corruption is !
spm "

In this context I would request the Learned members of this group to freely express / vote on the following simple query by posting to this group. Please trim all emails and only answer YES or NO.

QUESTION

I believe that the following politicians are honest, secular and have acted in national interest in their public actions
at least 70% of the time.

A) Prime Minister Dr. ManMohan Singh  (YES / NO)
B) Chairperson UPA (Ms Sonia Gandhi) (YES / NO)
C) Former Prime Minister Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee (YES NO)
D) Former Home Minister Sh Lal Krishna Advani (YES / NO)

Ashish
Stand up and speak out

Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

Dear Sh Bhanot

# The question was framed after deep consideration and review.
# I have no alliance with either congress or bjp
# The need of this forum is to get a quick composite pulse of the group
insofar as opinion on politicians is concerned. It is not a scientific metric
as you are trying to convert it into.

We have also noted that you are promoting yourself and your corporates
using this group. Hence for all these reasons and as a moderator of
RTI Unity forum, I am gagging (ie. putting you on 100% moderation)
for an indefinite period at this group.

Members are requested to comment on the original poll.

Ashish

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Surendera M. Bhanot <surendera@avissoftware.com> wrote:

The question was not suitably framed and it seems that the poster has some congress/BJP alliance.

In the present form there is every likely hood that the people will give partisan views.

The reframed question is as under:

QUESTION

politicians	Designation	honest	secular	acted in national interest
Dr. Man Mohan Sing	Prime Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Ms Sonia Gandhi	Chairperson UPA	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee	Former Prime Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Sh Lal Krishna Advani	Former Home Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%

 

 

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Group:

This is a MODERATOR INTERVENTION based on replies to this thread so far.

ISSUES;
1) This topic has the potential to spiral out of control and breach our group's email limit of 300 emails.
2) The "poll" is already vitiated because people have started giving reasons to justify their choices. This will influence subsequent "voters".

REASONING
a) This group exists to further citizens right to express freely and publicly.
b) This googlegroup is hampered by not having a poll section like yahoogroups did.
c) At this group we believe that the say of even 1 citizen is as important as the voice of a "mob".

DECISION
A) Posts to this thread will not count towards 30 email limit. BUT be very formal and civilised in your posts
B) No party propganda is allowed.
C) Cast your "votes" and give your own BRIEF "reasons" (if you so wish).

Sarbajit
Moderator

--
Warm Regards

Surendera M. Bhanot
- President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh
- Youth for Human Rights International YHRI - South Asia
- CEO, Avis Software, Chandigarh 
- Convener & Life Member, Consumers Association Chandigarh
- Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh
- Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh
No. 3758, Sector 22-D, Chandigarh-160022
Mob: 919-888-810-811
PHONE: 91-172-3013240
FAX: 0871 266 8523 
Mail Me

Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

What is the parameter for this poll. Ratings based on feelings aren't the correct method for generating results of a poll. We should gather facts and provide data points to prove and rate.

I have high regard for this group for the noble cause of RTI. Awake and make aware.. Somehow I couldn't connect myself with this thread

Believe me there is not a single psycho metric test to asses the honesty and integrity of an individual. Data based on feelings aren't appreciate to call a man "wise or otherwise"

Regards
Agni
National RTI Forum
Hyd Chapter..

Excuse Typos.Sent my BlackBerry®

---

From: "Surendera M. Bhanot" <surendera@avissoftware.com>

Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:04:49 +0530

To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

The question was not suitably framed and it seems that the poster has some congress/BJP alliance.

In the present form there is every likely hood that the people will give partisan views.

The reframed question is as under:

QUESTION

politicians	Designation	honest	secular	acted in national interest
Dr. Man Mohan Sing	Prime Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Ms Sonia Gandhi	Chairperson UPA	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee	Former Prime Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%
Sh Lal Krishna Advani	Former Home Minister	YES/NO	YES/NO	%

 

 

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Group:

This is a MODERATOR INTERVENTION based on replies to this thread so far.

ISSUES;
1) This topic has the potential to spiral out of control and breach our group's email limit of 300 emails.
2) The "poll" is already vitiated because people have started giving reasons to justify their choices. This will influence subsequent "voters".

REASONING
a) This group exists to further citizens right to express freely and publicly.
b) This googlegroup is hampered by not having a poll section like yahoogroups did.
c) At this group we believe that the say of even 1 citizen is as important as the voice of a "mob".

DECISION
A) Posts to this thread will not count towards 30 email limit. BUT be very formal and civilised in your posts
B) No party propganda is allowed.
C) Cast your "votes" and give your own BRIEF "reasons" (if you so wish).

Sarbajit
Moderator

--
Warm Regards

Surendera M. Bhanot
- President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh
- Youth for Human Rights International YHRI - South Asia
- CEO, Avis Software, Chandigarh 
- Convener & Life Member, Consumers Association Chandigarh
- Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh
- Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh
No. 3758, Sector 22-D, Chandigarh-160022
Mob: 919-888-810-811
PHONE: 91-172-3013240
FAX: 0871 266 8523 
Mail Me

Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

--- On Sun, 23/1/11, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote: From: ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> Subject: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 10:39 AM Friends, Fellow members of Humjanenge Many "patriotic" and secular (Uniform Civil Code etc.) members of this group have voiced a concern that an anti-secular agenda emanating from a coterie running the country (which they call BHARAT) is as important an issue to discuss and engage upon, as say only corruption. In particular a message from Sh Sant Mathur is interesting "Its well known that secretively a scandalous communal agenda of Islamisation/Christianisation of BHARAT is getting followed under the dictat(mostly indirect) of the top most political functionaries of the governing Alliance of the nation. Its a shame that its not getting exposed as corruption is ! spm " In this context I would request the Learned members of this group to freely express / vote on the following simple query by posting to this group. Please trim all emails and only answer YES or NO. QUESTION I believe that the following politicians are honest, secular and have acted in national interest in their public actions at least 70% of the time. A) Prime Minister Dr. ManMohan Singh  (YES / NO) > NO B) Chairperson UPA (Ms Sonia Gandhi) (YES / NO) > NO C) Former Prime Minister Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee (YES NO) NO D) Former Home Minister Sh Lal Krishna Advani (YES / NO) NO P Ashish Stand up and speak out

[rti4empowerment] DECISON ABOUT RTI APPLICATION WITH PREFIXES LIKE WHY, WHAT, WHEN AND WHETHER.

I want a copy of the CIC decision in the case of Dr. V. K. Rao V/s. Shri Jaswant Singh and ors pronounced on 21.04.2006, as intimated to me by one CPIO.  This decision pertains to queries prefixing why, what, when and whether. On the CIC site, message flash for the decisions taken in the quarters Jan-March, and April-June 2006, "no records found".     However, if we want to know the date of start/ completion of any project or reasons for delay or sudden stoppage of work, how the application can be framed without prefixing the above words?           I shall be grateful if any member can email the aforesaid decision for my and others benefit.

Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

Sinply Brilliant, Mathew ! "Spot on ". Agree 100%

Pramod Bhandari
Gurgaon

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Mathew Thomas <mathew.111938@gmail.com>

Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:15:25 +0530

To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Quick group poll: HONESTY OF POLITICIANS

Hi,

My answers to all four questions - A to D, are NO, NO, NO, NO! 

My reasons: Honesty is not to be assessed based on whether or not an individual has benefited personally or financially. 

If one is silent on any misdemeanour, it is indicative of acquiescence. This is as much tantamount to dishonesty as is personal involvement in malfeasance. 

Dishonesty need not be confined to financial impropriety. For example, Vajpayee, who like, Manmohan, appears to be personally honest, as far as his own financial matters are concerned, was silent on two occasions when a PM was expected to act. One was during the Godhra riots and the other was when Graham Steins was murdered. His foster son's activities are also in the news. 

Vajpayee did nothing when his election agent was caught violating electoral laws. He did nothing when the news of the Jain money-laundering racket broke out. 

Manmohan presides over the most scam-ridden government in history. How could one classify him, as honest? 

The problem is not only with our politicians. This class all over the world are similar. Human greed is not a peculiarly Indian phenomenon. The difference is that the justice system elsewhere is better developed and public consciousness better equipped to handle political dishonesty. 

The problem is not even one of personal dishonesty of politicians. It is a matter of cultural perceptions. Vajpayee did not see anything wrong with Advani's lie on the Kandahar hijacking. There is very high tolerance regarding moral issues in India. A CM who is bigamist continues in office and no one dares to even mention it! 

Regards,

Mathew     

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends, Fellow members of Humjanenge

Many "patriotic" and secular (Uniform Civil Code etc.) members of this group have voiced a concern that an anti-secular agenda emanating from a coterie running the country (which they call BHARAT) is as important an issue to discuss and engage upon, as say only corruption.

In particular a message from Sh Sant Mathur is interesting

"Its well known that secretively a scandalous communal agenda of
Islamisation/Christianisation of BHARAT is getting followed under the
dictat(mostly indirect) of the top most political functionaries of the
governing Alliance of the nation. Its a shame that its not getting exposed
as corruption is !
spm "

In this context I would request the Learned members of this group to freely express / vote on the following simple query by posting to this group. Please trim all emails and only answer YES or NO.

QUESTION

I believe that the following politicians are honest, secular and have acted in national interest in their public actions
at least 70% of the time.

A) Prime Minister Dr. ManMohan Singh  (YES / NO)
B) Chairperson UPA (Ms Sonia Gandhi) (YES / NO)
C) Former Prime Minister Sh Atal Bihari Vajpayee (YES NO)
D) Former Home Minister Sh Lal Krishna Advani (YES / NO)

Ashish
Stand up and speak out